From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V10 #95 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Monday, April 18 2005 Volume 10 : Number 095 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Several months go by.... [Bill Roberts ] Re: Me, me, me [Bill Roberts ] Torgo [Bill Roberts ] Re: Everyone... pt. 2 [j w ] Re: Everyone... [j w ] Re: Mark Reilly [j w ] Re: Everyone... [j w ] Re: Mark Reilly [Bill Roberts ] RE: enough already [j w ] Re: Torgo [j w ] Re: Everyone... pt. 2 [Bill Roberts ] Re: Everyone... [Bill Roberts ] Re: Torgo [Bill Roberts ] Re: Everyone... [Bill Roberts ] OT: concerts [steve7701@theriver.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:32:17 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Several months go by.... Joe, I really applaud your effort to be reasonable by complimenting Larry Carlton and praising Des. Of course Des doesn't need to leave this list. Quoting "" : > > Very eloquent, Des. > > ~Joe~ > > In a message dated 4/18/05 2:08:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > b_trzetrzelewska@yahoo.com writes: > > > > Hello all, > > > > It's a geat pleasure to know you all. I've been with you all since > > March 18, 2003 and during this relationship, I've learned a lot. I > > thank you for that. > > > > I remember the days when we were so quiet, far away from any > > activities. Many of us asked when Basia would make her music again. > > We were trying really hard to survive by making all kind of subjects > > that could be related to her. I still remember my very first subject > > abut her "physical degree" and it got some replies though, IMHO, > > it was just a really stupid question from me. > > > > I also remember the days when we were browsing around the Internet > > just in case there was some info of her though it was just a little. > > However, it tasted like a drip of fresh water rolling down the tongue > > of our thirsty mouths in the hot day at the desert. I remember how > > we all responded to "the taste of that drip of fresh water", some > > said it was OK, some said it was not good enough, etc. But the point > > is that, we managed to "stay alive" though we just got drip by drip. > > I believe, it's just because of the spirit of the people here, who > > never give up to fight. > > > > And then, the cloud came. Yes, the sign of the rain, the rain of > > Basia, that will satisfy our thirst. At first, some of us looked in > > disbelieve. I understand it. After many years without anything, I'm > > sure that our hope was dimmer and dimmer. I myself, if I had to > > wait that long, I would be desperated. > > > > Then came the first drops. All of us were so happy. And we were > > waiting and waiting, make sure that the first drops were the sign > > of the real rain, not just drizzle. All in silence, then a little > > thunder broke the silence which suddenly followed by the heavy rain. > > > > Since then, we are soaked wet. We read a lot about her. We read > > this and that. We commented the songs. We commented the price of > > the CD's. We said a lot. We believed that we'll be OK. Personally, > > I'm happy with this development. > > > > However, just like what heavy rain brings, soon we're flooded. > > Some of us are not satisfied with the situation and begin to argue > > to each other. At first, I believe that it's normal to have > > differences in the forum. I myself respect differences. I believe > > that every man has right to speak up his/her mind. However, when > > it has gone too far, it becomes unbearable. In this situation, > > knowing when to stop or hold back is the wise step. After all, > > that's the reason why the word "stop" and the phrase "hold back" are > > created. > > > > Have we never taught that "to get our right, we have to do our > > obligation first"? And by doing that, can we believe that we'll > > automatically get our right because someone else provides it by > > doing his/her obligation, and vice-versa? Can you have your right > > to speak when others refuse to do the obligation to listen to? What > > would happen if everybody says his/her right first? What would > > happen if everybody says, "I AM THE RIGHTEST ONE! ALL PEOPLE ARE > > WRONG! WHATEVER I WANT, I MUST HAVE IT! EVERYBODY MUST FOLLOW ME!"? > > How can we find peace if we say that? How can we be stronger if > > we're quarrelling to each other? Have we forgotten the meaning of > > "take and give" in the positive and harmonious way? Have we changed > > the meaning of "take and give" to such thing as, "You hit me hard, > > I hit you harder"? Deep inside my heart, I still believe that > > everybody here can control him/herself, think clearly, and respect > > each other. If yes, why don't we do it? Is it too hard to do? If > > yes, what makes it too hard to do? > > > > Looking back at the time when I broke the silence, I never expected > > to generate such trouble. I feel that I'm responsible for the > > unbearable riot in the forum. If only I could turn back the time, I > > would hold myself back, not to break the silence. Therefore, please > > stop blaming each other. Blame it to me. I would be glad if it could > > stop the riot and bring back the peace. Even, if I have to get out > > from this list because it's the only way, though it's hard for me, > > I will do it. But please don't you break your unity. The lose of a > > next to nothing person from a next to nothing country in SE Asia > > surely won't affect much to the list. But one think I can ask from > > you is that, don't break your togetherness. Remember the struggle > > in the early years. I hope this will be the turning point to the > > brighter time. > > > > Finally, I do apologize if the thing that I write doesn't suit your > > heart. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Desianto F. W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:37:10 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Me, me, me Leslie, I would love to let it go. My "beef" is that the extreme attacks on Mark just wouldn't stop and it was time for all of them to let it go. But instead, I had some pugnacious blankety-blank challenge me to a fistfight offlist, because he doesn't know how to interpret figurative language. I would like to see everyone who has such an extreme dislike of Mark's voice to take it off list and rant all they want. I'm sick of their whining. Quoting Leslie Osborn : > > > WHAT-ever. You'd think they'd have enough sense to > > take their flames > > offline. > > Yes. This is my main beef. I like all parties > involved, and I hate to see this. > > Further: Bill, come on, let it go! > > > But to reiterate - don't unsubscribe if you dislike > > this stuff. Just ignore > > it, or make THEM unsubscribe. > > > > Don't let the terrorists win! > > :-D Steve, you rock. > I'm not unsubbing myself, just... stepping back. > > > ... but mark's voice really isn't in the same class > > as basia's tho, gotta > > admit that, doncha? > > I think that's a fair statement. I like how Dirk said > it best. > > Back to stepping back... > > --LO > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:47:58 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Torgo > You have got to be kidding. You have dispensed with > more childish vitriol aimed at other list members than > anyone, and yet you bring me into this. You even had > the gaul to sympathize with Amy. I've yet to namecall > or go off on another list member (though you are > sorely testing me). However over the top my musical > criticism has been, it's all been on point. J3SITE had the gaul to sympathize with Amy, too. Why don't you mention that? And I was geniuinely sorry to offend her. I'm not sorry to offend you or Rocky. So piss off. I am sorely testing you? Wow. You are really amazing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:14:37 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: Re: Everyone... pt. 2 Since you aren't getting it, I'll repeat it one more time. Nothing I said was personal. It was all an accurate (to me) assessment of his voice. If someone appraised my nose as being "large", they'd be correct. If someone said it was, "condor-like" it would also be accurate (though perhaps over the top, like my criticism). In either instance, assuming there was some context to the issue, I wouldn't be bothered. - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > Look at your own words. "Bash". Just how bad does > it have to get before you > think it's personal? > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > I'll take it one step further. Point out any post > > where anyone bashed anything about Mark that > didn't > > relate to his voice or stage presence. No one > said he > > molested llamas or kept Basia hostage for the last > ten > > years. Everything has been aimed at his skills or > > lack thereof as a performer. I'm sorry that Dr. > > Pilat's feelings are hurt due to his friendship > with > > Mark, but none of these rips have been personal. > > > > --- J3SITE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Leslie, you have access to all the e-mails. > Please > > > point out the e-mail where > > > I've made an all out attack on Mark or the band. > I > > > don't believe I've done > > > so. I believe my critiques have been reasonable > and > > > fair. Does that mean I > > > should suffer boorish idiots like Billy R.? I > don't > > > think so. As a matter of fact I > > > don't really recall reading any all-out attacks > on > > > the band. > > > Anyway, please show me where I'm incorrect. > > > Thank you! > > > ~Joe~ > > > > > > In a message dated 4/18/05 12:23:27 PM Eastern > > > Daylight Time, > > > marzenie_99@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > It's not a fan club list obviously. But > there's a > > > diff > > > > between a critical review and an all out > attack. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Make Yahoo! your home page > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:09:16 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: Re: Everyone... If I was a performer and someone didn't like my voice, I'd take it. As long as it wasn't factually inaccurate, I'd eat it. Trust me, Mark is a grown up and has been in the business long enough to develop some thick skin. Again, everything I said about his singing was a sincere if over the top expression of how I heard his voice. Yes, his voice reminds me of an electric razor. Yes, he sounds like he has a kazoo stuck in his throat. Yes, he sounds like Ned on Southpark. I didn't say his mama wears combat boots or that he should kill himself to spare the world of his presence. As for what I'd expect, I'd expect those who agree with me and think it's funny to say, "I agree with you and that was funny." I'd expect those who agree with me but think I went a little far to say, "I don't care for his voice, but that was a little harsh." I'd expect those who completely disagree with me to say, "Wow, I really disagree with you there, I love Mark's voice," or to ignore me. In other words, I'd expect people to act like adults with a sense of humor and respond in kind or ignore me. - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > When you go overboard to criticize someone to the > point of gross exaggeration, > what do you think the result will be? Try putting > yourself in the position of > receiving comments like you and Rocky have been > dishing out. I would hate to > hear what you and Rocky would say if you were trying > to get personal. > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > I'll take it one step further. Point out any post > > where anyone bashed anything about Mark that > didn't > > relate to his voice or stage presence. No one > said he > > molested llamas or kept Basia hostage for the last > ten > > years. Everything has been aimed at his skills or > > lack thereof as a performer. I'm sorry that Dr. > > Pilat's feelings are hurt due to his friendship > with > > Mark, but none of these rips have been personal. > > > > --- J3SITE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Leslie, you have access to all the e-mails. > Please > > > point out the e-mail where > > > I've made an all out attack on Mark or the band. > I > > > don't believe I've done > > > so. I believe my critiques have been reasonable > and > > > fair. Does that mean I > > > should suffer boorish idiots like Billy R.? I > don't > > > think so. As a matter of fact I > > > don't really recall reading any all-out attacks > on > > > the band. > > > Anyway, please show me where I'm incorrect. > > > Thank you! > > > ~Joe~ > > > > > > In a message dated 4/18/05 12:23:27 PM Eastern > > > Daylight Time, > > > marzenie_99@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > It's not a fan club list obviously. But > there's a > > > diff > > > > between a critical review and an all out > attack. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Make Yahoo! your home page > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: Re: Mark Reilly I was on the list ages ago when MB was a peripheral Basia issue. I re-joined when I heard about the new tour. I have posted my thoughts without attacking or namecalling. Kindly do the same. - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > Maybe if Mark's voice bothers you so much, you are > on the wrong list. > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > If Basia or Mark were remotely bothered by what's > been > > on this list, they'd be in the wrong profession. > > > > --- Amy ODonnell wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Dirk. I don't even know any of them > and > > > appreciate your comments. > > > > > > Seeing as my last posts never made it to the > list, > > > maybe this one will: I didn't join this list to > read > > > the vitriol I've been reading, and so I'm just > going > > > to quit the list when I get home this evening. I > > > know, it won't make much impact and nobody gives > a > > > $%^& if I do, but if I wanted this kind of cr*p > I'd > > > spend more time with my family. > > > > > > GAWD I hope they don't read this list. I'd be > too > > > depressed to go near a freakin' stage if I were > in > > > Basia's shoes and read the garbage that's > circulated > > > in the last few days. > > > > > > Later. > > > > > > Amy > > > > > > -- Dr Dirk Pilat wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have to admit, I am utterly gobsmacked. > > > > > > I have been on this list since 1994 and even in > the > > > good old days of > > > "the Roach" there has never been an outpouring > of > > > that much > > > unqualified, mediocre and opinionated rubbish as > in > > > the last 150 posts > > > I just had to force myself through. > > > > > > The fact that Mark, Danny and Basia are back > > > together is, although > > > purely for economic reasons (no recording > contract > > > for Mrs B for > > > yonkers and sliding japanese sales for MB), very > > > much to applaud, > > > although I would have preferred to have heard > Mark > > > Fisher's talents in > > > conjunction with Danny's. They have given us a > quite > > > pleasing album > > > that was (expectedly) far away from milestones > like > > > "Time and Tide" and > > > MB's second, self-titled album, but at least > > > "Ronny's Samba" is a > > > beautiful toetapper. With their tour they've > given > > > thousands of pining > > > Basia fans a chance to see her again, albeit in > > > different > > > circumstances, but hey, better than nothing. > > > > > > If you look at the setlist, Mark Reilly was > > > obviously happy to > > > sacrifice his impressive backcatalogue of 10 > Matt > > > Bianco albums with > > > Mark Fisher for Basia's rather smaller oevre, > which > > > I wasn't surprised > > > about, because Mark is certainly not an > egotistical > > > ex-celebrity. > > > > > > I have known Mark Reilly (and Mark Fisher) now > since > > > 1999 and have > > > through rather weird circumstances become good > > > friends with them > > > individually (and have shared many glasses of > wine > > > with them) and can > > > honestly say that I have rarely spend time with > such > > > a humble and > > > unassuming genuinely nice bloke as MR. He's > rather > > > quiet but when he > > > speaks up it's mostly a rather funny little > quip. > > > He's also a pretty > > > good businessman and a surprisingly good > musician. > > > He is obviously not > > > in the same vocal league as Basia, but, in the > right > > > studio setup, his > > > voice suits the songs he choses to sing. He is > also > > > a rather eccentric > > > dancer :-) > > > > > > To read on this list of how one of my best mates > is > > > being dragged > > > through the mud, is - to put it gently - not > very > > > pleasant. I'd rather > > > ask you to enjoy the opportunity of seeing the > three > > > of them back > > > together. > > > > > > Marvel at Basia's vocal acrobatics, hop around > > > uncontrollably with Mark > > > and meditate with Danny. > > > > > > Long may it last. > > > > > > D > > > > > > Dr Dirk Pilat > > > Central Medical > > > Oamaru > > > New Zealand > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over > 17,000 guides! > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:21:38 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: Re: Everyone... - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > No I am not kidding. My childish vitriol was so you > could understand it on > your level. You have no idea of vitriolic your > comments have been, do you? They were honest appraisals of a performer, not personal attacks upon other list members, something you know a little something about. > I have already said I am willing to knock it off. > Are you? You've posted about 9000 times today. My few posts have been strictly in reply to specific issues, not to take non-stop cheapshots at other members. > Or do you prefer > to keep try defending the indefensible? You and > J3SITE started this. Are you > willing to apologize for your unreasonable comments? > I know better than to ask > Rocky. I've nothing to apologize for other than that my concert comments might have sparked your non-stop inanity. > I hope you have the opportunity to be in a similar > postition as Mark someday, > so you can continue to say that those who were > "bashing" you (your words), were > not getting personal. I'm a grown up. I've been to college and worked in multiple professional environments. I've been criticized plenty. I didn't cry, and I didn't need someone on a listserv to defend me. I'll ask you once more to point to one time when I personally attacked Mark Reilly or namecalled anyone on the list. You can't. That's your domain. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:24:04 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Mark Reilly >If Basia or Mark were remotely bothered by what's > > been > > > on this list, they'd be human. Quoting j w : > > I was on the list ages ago when MB was a peripheral > Basia issue. I re-joined when I heard about the new > tour. I have posted my thoughts without attacking or > namecalling. > > Kindly do the same. > > --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > > > > Maybe if Mark's voice bothers you so much, you are > > on the wrong list. > > > > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > > > > If Basia or Mark were remotely bothered by what's > > been > > > on this list, they'd be in the wrong profession. > > > > > > --- Amy ODonnell wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you, Dirk. I don't even know any of them > > and > > > > appreciate your comments. > > > > > > > > Seeing as my last posts never made it to the > > list, > > > > maybe this one will: I didn't join this list to > > read > > > > the vitriol I've been reading, and so I'm just > > going > > > > to quit the list when I get home this evening. I > > > > know, it won't make much impact and nobody gives > > a > > > > $%^& if I do, but if I wanted this kind of cr*p > > I'd > > > > spend more time with my family. > > > > > > > > GAWD I hope they don't read this list. I'd be > > too > > > > depressed to go near a freakin' stage if I were > > in > > > > Basia's shoes and read the garbage that's > > circulated > > > > in the last few days. > > > > > > > > Later. > > > > > > > > Amy > > > > > > > > -- Dr Dirk Pilat wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to admit, I am utterly gobsmacked. > > > > > > > > I have been on this list since 1994 and even in > > the > > > > good old days of > > > > "the Roach" there has never been an outpouring > > of > > > > that much > > > > unqualified, mediocre and opinionated rubbish as > > in > > > > the last 150 posts > > > > I just had to force myself through. > > > > > > > > The fact that Mark, Danny and Basia are back > > > > together is, although > > > > purely for economic reasons (no recording > > contract > > > > for Mrs B for > > > > yonkers and sliding japanese sales for MB), very > > > > much to applaud, > > > > although I would have preferred to have heard > > Mark > > > > Fisher's talents in > > > > conjunction with Danny's. They have given us a > > quite > > > > pleasing album > > > > that was (expectedly) far away from milestones > > like > > > > "Time and Tide" and > > > > MB's second, self-titled album, but at least > > > > "Ronny's Samba" is a > > > > beautiful toetapper. With their tour they've > > given > > > > thousands of pining > > > > Basia fans a chance to see her again, albeit in > > > > different > > > > circumstances, but hey, better than nothing. > > > > > > > > If you look at the setlist, Mark Reilly was > > > > obviously happy to > > > > sacrifice his impressive backcatalogue of 10 > > Matt > > > > Bianco albums with > > > > Mark Fisher for Basia's rather smaller oevre, > > which > > > > I wasn't surprised > > > > about, because Mark is certainly not an > > egotistical > > > > ex-celebrity. > > > > > > > > I have known Mark Reilly (and Mark Fisher) now > > since > > > > 1999 and have > > > > through rather weird circumstances become good > > > > friends with them > > > > individually (and have shared many glasses of > > wine > > > > with them) and can > > > > honestly say that I have rarely spend time with > > such > > > > a humble and > > > > unassuming genuinely nice bloke as MR. He's > > rather > > > > quiet but when he > > > > speaks up it's mostly a rather funny little > > quip. > > > > He's also a pretty > > > > good businessman and a surprisingly good > > musician. > > > > He is obviously not > > > > in the same vocal league as Basia, but, in the > > right > > > > studio setup, his > > > > voice suits the songs he choses to sing. He is > > also > > > > a rather eccentric > > > > dancer :-) > > > > > > > > To read on this list of how one of my best mates > > is > > > > being dragged > > > > through the mud, is - to put it gently - not > > very > > > > pleasant. I'd rather > > > > ask you to enjoy the opportunity of seeing the > > three > > > > of them back > > > > together. > > > > > > > > Marvel at Basia's vocal acrobatics, hop around > > > > uncontrollably with Mark > > > > and meditate with Danny. > > > > > > > > Long may it last. > > > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > Dr Dirk Pilat > > > > Central Medical > > > > Oamaru > > > > New Zealand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over > > 17,000 guides! > > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: RE: enough already If you are going to quote me, get it right. It was "spastic elf". - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > Yes Steve, you have apparently missed a lot. > > "Spasticated Elf" > "sockful of gravel down his throat" > > to mention a few. I hope you are nto trying to > characterize these attacks as > "honest critiques". > > > Quoting Steve O'Hearn : > > > > > I don't think there's anything wrong with honest > critiques. I think the > > nature of Basia's music is that it attracts a > highly intelligent and > > creative bunch. Having been on this list for > perhaps over 5 or so years, > > I've been amazed at how appreciative and > respectful this group has been, by > > and large. The "flame wars" that plague most > online groups I've seen are > > largely absent here. > > > > As for honest and constructive criticisms, well, > I'm guessing that Basia and > > company aren't the types who want to surround > themselves with a bunch of > > "yes" men. Or women. I'd like to think they are > smarter than that. > > > > So maybe I missed something over the past few > days. I kept looking for the > > negative posts. But the only posts I've managed > to see that are negative > > are shooting down the people who were saying they > didn't like Mark's voice. > > Seems as if there have been dozens and dozens and > dozens of those. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-basia@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > > > Bill Roberts > > > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:30 AM > > > To: basia@smoe.org > > > Subject: Re: enough already > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is about Basia. > > > > > > > > > Quoting "" : > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/18/05 10:53:09 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > > > > whroberts@iquest.net writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In contrast to the exquisite sounds of > Basia's voice was > > > Mark's voice > > > > > which > > > > > was mediocre in contrast. However, Mark can > carry a tune and > > > their voices > > > > > > > > > blended well in superb harmony". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine, but how do you give a thorough, > honest review without > > > mentioning > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Joe~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll agree that Mark can carry a tune. He > doesn't sing out > > > of tune. I > > > > just do not find his voice to be pleasant. I > do not agree that > > > > "their voices blended well in superb harmony". > But we all > > > listen differently > > > > > > > > and hear differently. We also have different > tastes and > > > expectations. That's > > > > > > > > why we have this list isn't it? To exchange > ideas and feelings > > > about Basia, > > > > et > > > > al? Or am I mistaken? Is this meant to be > solely a fan club-type list? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) From: j w Subject: Re: Torgo I haven't caught him making non-stop namecalling posts. Correct me if I'm wrong (although I didn't care for the apparent fight challenge). Again, look at the man calling for reasonable dialog and for people to let go. I haven't said anything about Reilly in days that wasn't in response to my old criticisms. Forget "letting go", I was never holding on to anything in the first place. Yet hear you are again: "So piss off." Well done. I hope the level of rhetoric on the list continues to be this high. - --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > > You have got to be kidding. You have dispensed > with > > more childish vitriol aimed at other list members > than > > anyone, and yet you bring me into this. You even > had > > the gaul to sympathize with Amy. I've yet to > namecall > > or go off on another list member (though you are > > sorely testing me). However over the top my > musical > > criticism has been, it's all been on point. > > J3SITE had the gaul to sympathize with Amy, too. > Why don't you mention that? > And I was geniuinely sorry to offend her. I'm not > sorry to offend you or > Rocky. So piss off. I am sorely testing you? Wow. > You are really amazing. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:55:08 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Everyone... pt. 2 Like I said look at your own words. Bash. How would you like it if people said the things about you that have been said about Mark? Answer that. Quoting j w : > > Since you aren't getting it, I'll repeat it one more > time. Nothing I said was personal. It was all an > accurate (to me) assessment of his voice. If someone > appraised my nose as being "large", they'd be correct. > If someone said it was, "condor-like" it would also > be accurate (though perhaps over the top, like my > criticism). In either instance, assuming there was > some context to the issue, I wouldn't be bothered. > > --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > > > Look at your own words. "Bash". Just how bad does > > it have to get before you > > think it's personal? > > > > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > > > > I'll take it one step further. Point out any post > > > where anyone bashed anything about Mark that > > didn't > > > relate to his voice or stage presence. No one > > said he > > > molested llamas or kept Basia hostage for the last > > ten > > > years. Everything has been aimed at his skills or > > > lack thereof as a performer. I'm sorry that Dr. > > > Pilat's feelings are hurt due to his friendship > > with > > > Mark, but none of these rips have been personal. > > > > > > --- J3SITE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Leslie, you have access to all the e-mails. > > Please > > > > point out the e-mail where > > > > I've made an all out attack on Mark or the band. > > I > > > > don't believe I've done > > > > so. I believe my critiques have been reasonable > > and > > > > fair. Does that mean I > > > > should suffer boorish idiots like Billy R.? I > > don't > > > > think so. As a matter of fact I > > > > don't really recall reading any all-out attacks > > on > > > > the band. > > > > Anyway, please show me where I'm incorrect. > > > > Thank you! > > > > ~Joe~ > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/18/05 12:23:27 PM Eastern > > > > Daylight Time, > > > > marzenie_99@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a fan club list obviously. But > > there's a > > > > diff > > > > > between a critical review and an all out > > attack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Make Yahoo! your home page > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:59:17 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Everyone... >Again, everything I said about his > singing was a sincere if over the top expression of > how I heard his voice. Over-the-top is too much. And don't call me names either. I don't appreciate your characterization. You are in no postion to call anything adult or not. Like I have said, I hope you get to be the recipient of "funny" remarks about what you do for a living. I hope they are on the same childish level as your unfunny remarks. Quoting j w : > > If I was a performer and someone didn't like my voice, > I'd take it. As long as it wasn't factually > inaccurate, I'd eat it. Trust me, Mark is a grown up > and has been in the business long enough to develop > some thick skin. Again, everything I said about his > singing was a sincere if over the top expression of > how I heard his voice. Yes, his voice reminds me of > an electric razor. Yes, he sounds like he has a kazoo > stuck in his throat. Yes, he sounds like Ned on > Southpark. I didn't say his mama wears combat boots > or that he should kill himself to spare the world of > his presence. > > As for what I'd expect, I'd expect those who agree > with me and think it's funny to say, "I agree with you > and that was funny." I'd expect those who agree with > me but think I went a little far to say, "I don't care > for his voice, but that was a little harsh." I'd > expect those who completely disagree with me to say, > "Wow, I really disagree with you there, I love Mark's > voice," or to ignore me. > > In other words, I'd expect people to act like adults > with a sense of humor and respond in kind or ignore > me. > > --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > > > When you go overboard to criticize someone to the > > point of gross exaggeration, > > what do you think the result will be? Try putting > > yourself in the position of > > receiving comments like you and Rocky have been > > dishing out. I would hate to > > hear what you and Rocky would say if you were trying > > to get personal. > > > > > > Quoting j w : > > > > > > > > I'll take it one step further. Point out any post > > > where anyone bashed anything about Mark that > > didn't > > > relate to his voice or stage presence. No one > > said he > > > molested llamas or kept Basia hostage for the last > > ten > > > years. Everything has been aimed at his skills or > > > lack thereof as a performer. I'm sorry that Dr. > > > Pilat's feelings are hurt due to his friendship > > with > > > Mark, but none of these rips have been personal. > > > > > > --- J3SITE@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Leslie, you have access to all the e-mails. > > Please > > > > point out the e-mail where > > > > I've made an all out attack on Mark or the band. > > I > > > > don't believe I've done > > > > so. I believe my critiques have been reasonable > > and > > > > fair. Does that mean I > > > > should suffer boorish idiots like Billy R.? I > > don't > > > > think so. As a matter of fact I > > > > don't really recall reading any all-out attacks > > on > > > > the band. > > > > Anyway, please show me where I'm incorrect. > > > > Thank you! > > > > ~Joe~ > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/18/05 12:23:27 PM Eastern > > > > Daylight Time, > > > > marzenie_99@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a fan club list obviously. But > > there's a > > > > diff > > > > > between a critical review and an all out > > attack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Make Yahoo! your home page > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:00:48 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Torgo > Well done. I hope the level of rhetoric on the list > continues to be this high. > Again it's on your level. If you want it to stop, then stop it. Quoting j w : > > I haven't caught him making non-stop namecalling > posts. Correct me if I'm wrong (although I didn't > care for the apparent fight challenge). > > Again, look at the man calling for reasonable dialog > and for people to let go. I haven't said anything > about Reilly in days that wasn't in response to my old > criticisms. Forget "letting go", I was never holding > on to anything in the first place. Yet hear you are > again: > > "So piss off." > > Well done. I hope the level of rhetoric on the list > continues to be this high. > > > --- Bill Roberts wrote: > > > > > You have got to be kidding. You have dispensed > > with > > > more childish vitriol aimed at other list members > > than > > > anyone, and yet you bring me into this. You even > > had > > > the gaul to sympathize with Amy. I've yet to > > namecall > > > or go off on another list member (though you are > > > sorely testing me). However over the top my > > musical > > > criticism has been, it's all been on point. > > > > J3SITE had the gaul to sympathize with Amy, too. > > Why don't you mention that? > > And I was geniuinely sorry to offend her. I'm not > > sorry to offend you or > > Rocky. So piss off. I am sorely testing you? Wow. > > You are really amazing. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:03:02 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Everyone... Quoting j w : > > I'll ask you once more to point to one time when I > personally attacked Mark Reilly or namecalled anyone > on the list. > > You can't. That's your domain. > > > You have already admitted your comments were over-the-top. What else do I need to say? That is your domain. Leave me out of it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:03:32 -0700 (MST) From: steve7701@theriver.com Subject: OT: concerts Don't think Clapton & Beck ever played together in a Yardbirds concert...Clapton left in March 1965 and Beck replaced him. Possibly they saw one of the rare shows where Beck and Jimmy Page were co-lead guitarists with the Yardbirds...which would be an equally awesome memory. What tour was Carlton on the road with Steely Dan? Or was it a one-time appearance during a tour? I know he did the studio work but didn't realize he ever played with them at a show or tour. I'd love to find a tape of him playing live with them! Steve R. All right Max. That does it! You are hereby required to bring me along on all concerts you attend. Man, you've seen some great artists. I feel for you over the Carlton miss. The only time I saw him was when he was with Steely Dan. They were great but I'd love to catch him solo. His version of Sleepwalk is the best, bar none. ~Joe~ > > Enough ranting about the good ole days, but let me close with this > plumb. A high school chum of mine had his dad take him and some of his > friend to the Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake Iowa(very near where Buddy > Holly's plane went down) to see the Yardbirds back in the middle 60's. A > very young Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck were part of the band at the > time. My parents wouldn't have done that for anything!! > Max ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V10 #95 ***************************