From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V8 #74 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Monday, June 23 2003 Volume 08 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Stephen Stills ["Steve Richardson" ] Re: Larry Carlton CD's ["" ] Re: Larry Carlton CD's ["" ] Re: one guitarist vs. another [Bob Rumsby ] Conclusion(?) ["Desianto F. W." ] Re: Conclusion(?) [PParm16424@aol.com] Re: Conclusion(?) ["Desianto F. W." ] Re: Conclusion(?) ["Desianto F. W." ] Double postings ["Steve Richardson" ] Re: PW vs. Larry Carlton ["Kamille" ] Re: Larry Carlton albums [Stareye ] PW vs LC [JPovlock@aol.com] Re: PW vs. Larry Carlton [Leslie Osborn ] Re: one guitarist vs. another ["" ] Re: one guitarist vs. another ["Thelma" ] Re: PW vs LC ["Desianto F. W." ] Re: Larry Carlton albums ["Desianto F. W." ] re: please let it die re: pw vs. larry godzilla ["pineking@gwi.net" Subject: Stephen Stills Boy, was I ever glad to read that (below)...Stephen Stills is a phenomenal guitar player. I say is, I saw Crosby, Stills and Nash 3 weeks ago and Stephen was just on fire - electric blues, rock guitar, acoustic folk and country sounds - wow. Musician magazine had an article a decade or so back where they listed their 50 most influential guitarists, and they left Stills off the list altogether. Kind of lost all my respect for that publication at that point. I think it was purely a political thing, Stills/CSN were kind of out of favor at that time, considered an old hippie band or something. And Rusty Young, absolutely phenomenal on steel guitar. It was really cool when Rusty got to come up front for Poco and sing (and have some big hits) but unfortunately he didn't play much steel guitar on stage after that - not the 3 times I saw them after Richie Furay left, anyway. The Hendrix of the steel guitar - he played the heck out of that thing. Steve R. Phil wrote... Here are a few of my guitar heroes: Stephen Stills Neil Young Steve Miller Vince Gill James Taylor Rusty Young (Poco) Tom Jobim Joni Mitchell John Fahey Jim Messina (Buffalo Springfield, Poco, Loggins & Messina) Gontiti (the Japanese acoustic duo) Ricky Skaggs & every other Nashville picker ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:58:16 -0500 From: "" Subject: Re: Larry Carlton CD's There are several you could try. I will get them out and suggest some titles for you to check out. One that comes immediately to mind is a CD LC did with Lee Ritenour called "Larry and Lee" a few years back. It's got some great tunes on it with some fabulous playing. B.R. Quoting "" : > > Larry's first CD, self-titled, would be a great start. He plays some really > hot licks next to very catchable melodies. His sound on that CD, which is > very > electric, but without the distortion that most rock bands use, is perhaps my > > favorite electric guitar sound. The next choice for you is Alone/But Never > Alone. It's his first acoustic album, extremely well-done. Larry going > acoustic > was like Led Zep going acoustic - a shock, but pretty damn good. He also > played > all the guitar on Donald Fagen's The Nightfly, clean jazz. Finally, for the > hard core fans, he did a live CD a couple years ago from a tour of Japan with > > Steve Lukather (Toto) that is really hot. > > Enjoy! > > Jim P. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:58:16 -0500 From: "" Subject: Re: Larry Carlton CD's There are several you could try. I will get them out and suggest some titles for you to check out. One that comes immediately to mind is a CD LC did with Lee Ritenour called "Larry and Lee" a few years back. It's got some great tunes on it with some fabulous playing. B.R. Quoting "" : > > Larry's first CD, self-titled, would be a great start. He plays some really > hot licks next to very catchable melodies. His sound on that CD, which is > very > electric, but without the distortion that most rock bands use, is perhaps my > > favorite electric guitar sound. The next choice for you is Alone/But Never > Alone. It's his first acoustic album, extremely well-done. Larry going > acoustic > was like Led Zep going acoustic - a shock, but pretty damn good. He also > played > all the guitar on Donald Fagen's The Nightfly, clean jazz. Finally, for the > hard core fans, he did a live CD a couple years ago from a tour of Japan with > > Steve Lukather (Toto) that is really hot. > > Enjoy! > > Jim P. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:22:57 -0400 From: Bob Rumsby Subject: Re: one guitarist vs. another 404:44 PM 6/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would never think of manipulating or dictating what people "should" >like. I >happen to like music that isn't always technically superior as well as the >really complicated stuff. If you go back to some of LC's fusion CD's in the >80's, I think a lot of us on this list would be surprised how good it sounds >now. > >The issue here is who is a better player. I like PW's stuff, but he still >isn't even close to LC. > >B.R. First of all you should check your settings as every posting you make comes through twice. Another question I have is. Do you listen to music to see if it is technically correct or because you like the sounds coming out of the speakers? I have quiet a friend who is a classical music buff, who can tell if a singer is half an octave off of what it should be. Well if that's all people listen for then they better have a music system that is so tweaked that it will not disturb their listening of the sounds coming out. Whilst we are on guitarists. Have any of you ever listened Kevin Peek. He was one of the guitarists who played in a group called Sky. The other guitarist was John Williams. Also remember. My God is better than your God..... bfn Bob R Hawthorne, NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Conclusion(?) My goodness! All of you make my inbox full..:-) Now, I'm worrying about the phone bill..... I'm glad to learn that the 'controversy' about the best guitarist in the world is finally 'cooled down'. Thanks everybody here! So, the best or not is mainly a subjective matter since everyone is unique... I myself never consider myself as a good bassist though I can play 4, 5, or 6 strings, fretless or fretted, acoustic or electric, nylon or steel. The more I know and learn, the more realize that I'm still an idiot though some friends call me the maestro. Even, after my band was 'finished' because Danny, my keyboard player is busy chasing girls, Felix, my guitarist is busy with his new band and Ryan, my drummer is busy with his study, I never have a chance to step on the studio or stage floor. To polish my skill and prevent the talent that God's given vanishes, I play at church every Sunday besides teaching sunday school. The bottomline is, the best or not is really subjective. If you like it, just go on, and if you don't like it, it's OK. As long as it makes you happy inside and don't disturb others, no problem. Hope this could be the conclusion. For the double or even triple posted messages, have you sent a complaint to the server? I've sent a complaint some days ago because I thought that there was something wrong with the reply address and the next morning, the problem was solved. I do apologize if there are some words that insult some of you. I didn't mean it, it's because my limitation in English vocabulary... To Leslie, thanks for the correction. Czesc, Desianto F. W. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:06:37 EDT From: PParm16424@aol.com Subject: Re: Conclusion(?) Desianto, I do play bass myself, but I am self-taught which is the bad news. I played piano (more my forte!) and bass guitar alternately at one church for about a decade. People seemed to like my bass playing, but I barely knew what I was doing technique-wise. Since I also often sing "bass", finding a bass line for a given song came quite easily to me, but to try to teach anyone else how to play bass? Totally lost there! I am quite certain you are further up "the list" when it comes to bass playing than I. :) Phil/Michigan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:25:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Re: Conclusion(?) Phil, I am also a self-taught player, so we're at the same position. I only use my ears (thank God, they're still good) and my experience singing bass in a choir. About the instrument, maybe you use the branded one e.g. Fender but I have to build it by myself since I can't afford the branded one. Thank God, now I have two basses, one is an acoustic-electric fretless four-string and the other is five-string J-Bass fretted, all were built by myself. Maybe because I'm too serious in building basses, my fingers are not in best shape anymore (bleed, beaten, hit, cut, sawn) so more or less it affects my ability in playing bass. So, don't worry about that. It's posible that you're better than me..... :-) Desianto F. W. ================================== - --- PParm16424@aol.com wrote: > > Desianto, > > I do play bass myself, but I am self-taught which is > the bad news. I played > piano (more my forte!) and bass guitar alternately > at one church for about a > decade. People seemed to like my bass playing, but I > barely knew what I was > doing technique-wise. Since I also often sing > "bass", finding a bass line for a > given song came quite easily to me, but to try to > teach anyone else how to play > bass? Totally lost there! I am quite certain you are > further up "the list" > when it comes to bass playing than I. :) > > Phil/Michigan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Re: Conclusion(?) Oops, almost forget it.. Talk about the other instruments, I've ever used Fender J-Bass, Fender P-Bass, Squier P-Bass, Samick, Ibanez SR-6, Ibanez 5-string, and others that I can't remember the name. All is borrowed from the studios and my friends. But the most suitable in my heart is my TDFW custom basses..... :-) (don't be confused, that's my initial) Desianto F. W. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:55:32 -0700 From: "Steve Richardson" Subject: Double postings Looks to me like that individual had the basia@smoe.org address in both the "TO" and "CC" areas, which is probably why we're getting them all twice.... >First of all you should check your settings as every posting you make >comes through twice. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:02:09 -0500 From: "Kamille" Subject: Re: PW vs. Larry Carlton Leslie wrote: Often with a discussion of this nature there will be said, "Oh, to each their own!" and "Different strokes for different folks!" and other such platitudes--which are fine for soothing the irritation of strong words, I suppose . . . Leslie, I haven't posted since the Peter White/Larry Carlton issue began, but I'll have to take exception to your characterization of these phrases you mentioned above as "platitudes." "To each his own" is as valid a viewpoint as "this one is better than that one" or "that guy bores me." People aren't always trying to soothe the "irritation of strong words" when they make such a statement. It is a real place that people can be and that should be respected as an alternative opinion along with the extremes that were voiced. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Osborn" To: Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: Re: PW vs. Larry Carlton > > > People may not always agree on who is best, but > > labeling one musician as > > better than another is not always necessarily a bad > > thing. > > Totally. Often with a discussion of this nature there > will be said, "Oh, to each their own!" and "Different > strokes for different folks!" and other such > platitudes--which are fine for soothing the irritation > of strong words, I suppose-- but debates like this > keep our musical ears sharp and our critic's ears > attuned. Thanks for a great post. Actually, thanks all > around for a fantastic discussion--I am learning a TON > from it. > > --Leslie > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:29:01 -0400 From: Stareye Subject: Re: Larry Carlton albums Steve Richardson wrote: >If you like Christmas music at all - check out Larry's "Christmas at Our >House" when the holidays roll around. Seems like virtually every time I >introduce someone to this album it becomes their favorite Xmas album. > >And I can never forget Larry's contributions to my favorite album EVER - Joni >Mitchell's "Court & Spark." He plays most of the electric guitar on that >album. > >Joni played with a lot of the greats...a young Robben Ford took over for LC on >the "Miles of Aisles" tour, and Pat Metheny himself on the underrated (ahead >of its time?) "Shadows & Light." > >Steve R. > > > Interesting posts-I love this ML sometimes :) Since bass playing has been brought up in this thread, don't forget Jaco Pastorius (vituoso bassist) on Joni's "Don Juan's Restless Daughter"... Peace ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:50:14 EDT From: JPovlock@aol.com Subject: PW vs LC Desianto F. W. posted that... Thanks everybody here! So, the best or not is mainly a subjective matter since everyone is unique... I'm going to debate this point a bit more. Obviously. playing a guitar isn't like sports, where you can quantify everything that happens. You can't measure how many notes played per measure, how often they missed a note, etc. etc. etc. But I will use a little baseball analogy. Derek Jeter of the Yankees is an excellent player. He fields well. He can run well. He is a very good hitter. He has been part of a team that won the World Series several times in the past few years. He's also a real good guy. But he is not as good a player as Alex Rodriguez of the Texas Rangers, who is often called the best player in the game. The same goes with Peter White. He is talented, and popular, and I do like the man, but he is NOT anywhere as good a player as Larry Carlton. LC can play every style of music imaginable, and play it well. He can - and does - play with everyone imaginable, and makes that artist's music better for it. I think it was Richard who mentioned that LC also did a Christmas CD. The only reason I forgot to mention that is because I have it sorted with my Christmas music. I think this whole thing got started because of some gushing praise from The Perfect Caravan fan club. I have no problem with someone telling me they LIKE PW best of all. That is truly subjective, as we all have our own tastes. But with all that Carlton has accomplished, and continues to accomplish, PLEASE don't tell me that PW is a better player, because it isn't even close. If you really believe PW is better, then you just don't know what you're talking about. Jim P. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: Re: PW vs. Larry Carlton > "To each his own" > is as valid a viewpoint > as "this one is better than that one" or "that guy > bores me." People aren't > always trying to soothe the "irritation of strong > words" when they make such > a statement. I'm not trying to say that it's not valid. I was coming from that angle because I had been reading similar debates on some contemporyjazz.com or magicisland.com forum-- they would get into a discussion about a musician, then things would get heated, then someone would say: "Oh, its all subjective! We can like whatever we want! To each their own!" Well, of course, but yet art crticism and music criticism exist for a reason. Step out of the debate if you don't like it, but don't effectively end the discussion with happy little phrases! (I mean you in the general sense, not at you, Kamille.) It is a real place that people can be > and that should be > respected as an alternative opinion along with the > extremes that were > voiced. Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sorry. Finally, I think Jim summed it up nicely when he said that if you *like* someone, fine, that is subjective. But if you are going to say that someone is better than another, be prepared for a debate. Which is what we got, and a damned fine one at that. - --Leslie __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:04:25 -0500 From: "" Subject: Re: one guitarist vs. another I listen to music because I like the music. When I find someone who can perform interesting music AND is technically great, then I can enjoy it on two levels. If someone was a great musician, but the songwriting (or arranging) is boring, I probably wouldn't buy it. Larry Carlton's music satifies me on both levels, songwriting and musicianship. So does Pat Metheny and Chieli Minucci. I do have CD's where I like the music, but the playing is average. It's just a real treat when I can have both. BTW, did I correct the double posting problem? Bill R. > > First of all you should check your settings as every posting you make > comes through twice. > > Another question I have is. Do you listen to music to see if it is > technically > correct or because you like the sounds coming out of the speakers? > > I have quiet a friend who is a classical music buff, who can tell if a > singer > is half an octave off of what it should be. Well if that's all people > listen for then > they better have a music system that is so tweaked that it will not disturb > their listening of the sounds coming out. > > Whilst we are on guitarists. Have any of you ever listened Kevin Peek. > He was one of the guitarists who played in a group called Sky. The other > guitarist was John Williams. > > Also remember. My God is better than your God..... > > bfn > Bob R > Hawthorne, NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:06:59 -0400 From: "Thelma" Subject: Re: one guitarist vs. another yep! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "Bob Rumsby" Cc: <""@iquest.net> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: Re: one guitarist vs. another > > I listen to music because I like the music. When I find someone who can > perform interesting music AND is technically great, then I can enjoy it on two > levels. If someone was a great musician, but the songwriting (or arranging) is > boring, I probably wouldn't buy it. Larry Carlton's music satifies me on both > levels, songwriting and musicianship. So does Pat Metheny and Chieli Minucci. > > I do have CD's where I like the music, but the playing is average. It's just a > real treat when I can have both. > > BTW, did I correct the double posting problem? > > Bill R. > > > > > First of all you should check your settings as every posting you make > > comes through twice. > > > > Another question I have is. Do you listen to music to see if it is > > technically > > correct or because you like the sounds coming out of the speakers? > > > > I have quiet a friend who is a classical music buff, who can tell if a > > singer > > is half an octave off of what it should be. Well if that's all people > > listen for then > > they better have a music system that is so tweaked that it will not disturb > > their listening of the sounds coming out. > > > > Whilst we are on guitarists. Have any of you ever listened Kevin Peek. > > He was one of the guitarists who played in a group called Sky. The other > > guitarist was John Williams. > > > > Also remember. My God is better than your God..... > > > > bfn > > Bob R > > Hawthorne, NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:44:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Re: PW vs LC My goodness! If you read my last postings carefully, I said that he's far better than ME, not Larry Carlton, because I can't play guitar. Hope this will clear everything. Desianto F. W. ======================================== - --- JPovlock@aol.com wrote: > > Desianto F. W. posted that... > Thanks everybody here! So, the best or not is mainly > a subjective matter since everyone is unique... > > > I'm going to debate this point a bit more. > Obviously. playing a guitar isn't > like sports, where you can quantify everything that > happens. You can't measure > how many notes played per measure, how often they > missed a note, etc. etc. > etc. But I will use a little baseball analogy. Derek > Jeter of the Yankees is an > excellent player. He fields well. He can run well. > He is a very good hitter. > He has been part of a team that won the World Series > several times in the past > few years. He's also a real good guy. But he is not > as good a player as Alex > Rodriguez of the Texas Rangers, who is often called > the best player in the > game. > > The same goes with Peter White. He is talented, and > popular, and I do like > the man, but he is NOT anywhere as good a player as > Larry Carlton. LC can play > every style of music imaginable, and play it well. > He can - and does - play > with everyone imaginable, and makes that artist's > music better for it. I think it > was Richard who mentioned that LC also did a > Christmas CD. The only reason I > forgot to mention that is because I have it sorted > with my Christmas music. > > I think this whole thing got started because of some > gushing praise from The > Perfect Caravan fan club. I have no problem with > someone telling me they LIKE > PW best of all. That is truly subjective, as we all > have our own tastes. But > with all that Carlton has accomplished, and > continues to accomplish, PLEASE > don't tell me that PW is a better player, because it > isn't even close. If you > really believe PW is better, then you just don't > know what you're talking about. > > Jim P. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:54:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Re: Larry Carlton albums As far as I can remember, Jaco Pastorius mostly plays on Fender Fretless J-Bass. I really love the sound of fretless basses, it's a little bit 'elastic' and flexible. However, I also love the sound of fretted bass as well. Desianto F. W. =============================================== > Interesting posts-I love this ML sometimes :) > > Since bass playing has been brought up in this > thread, don't forget Jaco > Pastorius (vituoso bassist) on Joni's "Don Juan's > Restless Daughter"... > > Peace __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:04:02 -0400 From: "pineking@gwi.net" Subject: re: please let it die re: pw vs. larry godzilla I know Danny has always had high regard for Steely Dan, I'd like to know how he feels about their latest, 'Everything Must Go' I listened to it tonight and am overwhelmed. The title cut is extremely reminiscent of Fagen's best chord changes, but when you listen to Becker, nominally a bassist, stroking lead guitar on the bulk of the tunes, you wonder why I left him out of my Guitar Heroes list the other night. It's cause I forgot to list him! Becker is Fagen's foil, to be sure, but he aint no John Oats. I recall seeing them on Letterman years ago, when they did 'Peg'. As the number faded away, Becker, playing lead guitar, inserted in the last measure a perfect refrain of the Scarecrow song from the Wizard of Oz. In these days of nega-melodic pop music crap we should all get down on our knees before Donald and Walter and thank them, and beg them to contact Danny and Basia and implore them to get off their asses and do something...anything....PLEASE! We need this kind of music, the world needs their kind of music. At least there is Steely Dan, THANK GOD! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V8 #74 **************************