From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V7 #38 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Saturday, March 2 2002 Volume 07 : Number 038 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OT: Madonna and electronics ["Navaira" ] RE: Madonna and electronics ["Jeff Abrams" ] Re: OT: Madonna and electronics [whroberts@iquest.net] (no subject) [JPovlock@aol.com] Re: (no subject) [whroberts@iquest.net] RE: OT: Madonna and electronics ["Jeff Abrams" ] RE: Madonna and electronics ["Steve O'Hearn" ] Re: Keiko Matsui concert [Mithors@aol.com] RE: Madonna and electronics ["Jeff Abrams" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:42:34 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: OT: Madonna and electronics Hi, Star Eyes wrote: > I didn't mean to set you off so much. I just do not look at programming > music as true Musicianship. I review Ray of light, and know that a few > musicians worked on it. Truly, only 3, and of which two of them are involved > in programming more so than truly playing the music. Drums & percussion: Fergus Gerrand (with additional PROGRAMMING by Steve Sidelnyk) Guitar: William 0rbit, Marc Moreau Flute: Pablo Cook Vocals: Madonna, Donna DeLory, Nikki Harris Keyboards: Marius deVries String arrangement: Craig Armstrong and Patrick Leonard Orchestra conducted by: Susie Katayama Unfortunately the orchestra members' names aren't mentioned here =) I wonder if you heard William 0rbit's "Pieces in a modern style" album and what do you think of it :) And, say, recently I recorded a new track. The track recording went like this: I run my sequencer and played the piano line into it, then I rewound the track and added some string chords on top. Over. One take for piano, one take for strings. Does this mean I have no talent because I should have sat by the REAL piano and played the melody into a tape recorder? :) > As I stated previously, I do like some Electronica/Techno(trance and > ambient) more than I would let on to my guitar and bass player. My PC > Jukebox is full of it. I just don't like Madonna's methods used to overcome > a lack of REAL talent. I don't like it when people accuse Madonna of "lack of REAL talent". What IS real talent? Is it being able to sing? Is it being able to write your songs? Is it being able to dance? Is it being able to sing your songs while playing a guitar? Is being able to sing your songs while playing a keyboard equal to lack of talent? Is being a pop avant garde artist equal to being untalented because of the "pop" word? Madonna writes her songs. Tina Turner doesn't. Does this mean Tina Turner is far less talented than Madonna? > I also don't understand why the simpler the music, the more it sells (in America at least). This is interesting, yes. I realised that quite a long ago and it was in case of, guess, Madonna: she released two singles in a row. "Take A Bow" was a HUGE American hit, while it was her smallest UK hit *ever*. Then "Bedtime Story" completely bombed in the US (#37?) while it went into #4 in the UK, becoming the biggest hit off "Bedtime Stories". That was when I decided that to succeed in America one can't do anything more complicated than work with Babyface... > I guess what I'm saying is that I believe Basia is a much more talented > individual than Madonna. It's perfectly fine to say that. Just please, restrain from using the words "talentless" and "wh*re", okay? Thank you :) Steve O'Hearn said: > The only problem with Madonna is that she's as trashy as a junkyard dog. > She's a porn star who happens to write some catchy melodies. This is precisely what I'd like you to NOT say. Creative criticism, please. > I harken back to the days when people criticized electric guitars because > they weren't "natural instruments". > > As if pianos grow on trees .... Interesting that first you completely diss Madonna in a very ugly way and then you say something I agree with totally :) > Having said that - there's an excitement in the live performance of a > harpsichord that you just don't get with a computer-programmed drum machine. Maybe that's because harpsichord and a drum machine emit different sounds. ;) - -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:59:57 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: Madonna and electronics - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Navaira Subject: OT: Madonna and electronics >> Having said that - there's an excitement in the live performance of a >> harpsichord that you just don't get with a computer-programmed drum >> machine. > Maybe that's because harpsichord and a drum machine emit different sounds. > ;) Being an accomplished harpsichordist and MIDI programmer, I am totally offended by these remarks! (0; Now if I could just figure out how to put a MIDI interface on my girlfriend... - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:36:13 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: OT: Madonna and electronics Who is the better musician? 1) Someone who plays a piano part into a sequencer with sloppy technique, who then corrects the errors with the sequencer's quantize function, or: 2) Someone who plays uses a sequencer to build up multiple tacks like a multi-track tape recorder, occasionally correcting some timing errors, or: 3) Someone who uses a sequencer to enter notes in step mode and programs sequences that would be impossible for a human being to play. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:10:08 EST From: JPovlock@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Who is the better musician? Answer - the guy who can crank it out live in concert, making it sound as close to the studio as possible. Being a "programmer" may make nice sounding music, but I have a helluva lot more respect for a "musician" who can play it live. Jim P. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:44:42 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: (no subject) >>Who is the better musician? > >Answer - the guy who can crank it out live in concert, making it sound as >close to the studio as possible. Being a "programmer" may make nice sounding >music, but I have a helluva lot more respect for a "musician" who can play it >live. > Absolutely correct. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:25:56 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: OT: Madonna and electronics You haven't asked the right question for those answers. The correct question would be "Who is a better keyboard player?". Or, perhaps, "Who is a better programmer?" What comprises the concept of a "better musician" is a considerably deeper question. The act of creating music covers such a wide array of skills that you would have to devise a list that covers a much longer list of criteria. To me, the better musician would be the one that can convey a complete musical idea the most effectively. Music is simply a form of communication. I might take any one of the approaches you offered as answers to your question and they would be equally valid as long as they were utilized as a means to convey a complete, pre-conceived idea. I know a lot of keyboard players that are VERY competent that couldn't even operate a sequencer well. I also know quite a few the play the way I type (with two fingers), but can reveal an enormous swath of the musical landscape the constructions they assemble with quantized or step-timed performances. I feel the biggest distraction of the modern musical palate is the fact that so many of the tools create an interesting result without any real thought. A harpsichord (as brought up in an earlier post) doesn't have such an easy interface. (0; The concept that proceeds the button pushing is everything. - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata Home is where the house is. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of whroberts@iquest.net Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:36 AM To: Navaira; basia@smoe.org Subject: Re: OT: Madonna and electronics Who is the better musician? 1) Someone who plays a piano part into a sequencer with sloppy technique, who then corrects the errors with the sequencer's quantize function, or: 2) Someone who plays uses a sequencer to build up multiple tacks like a multi-track tape recorder, occasionally correcting some timing errors, or: 3) Someone who uses a sequencer to enter notes in step mode and programs sequences that would be impossible for a human being to play. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:31:19 -0500 From: "Steve O'Hearn" Subject: RE: Madonna and electronics > Steve O'Hearn said: > > The only problem with Madonna is that she's as trashy as a junkyard dog. > > She's a porn star who happens to write some catchy melodies. > This is precisely what I'd like you to NOT say. Well, THAT is precisely what I'D like you to not RESPOND with! So there! Regarding my comment - after achieving pop icon status among the juvenille set, Madonna released a book in the US with a few hundred photos of herself naked, aka Playboy magazine, and started release videos involving S&M and gay/lesbian orgy themes and simulated sex scenes. She took a bed on tour with her and writhed on it during concert. If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck ... > Creative criticism, please. Creative? OK, I'll try to be creative .... Madonna is a creative porn star. How's that? :) Just kidding .... > > As if pianos grow on trees .... > Interesting that first you completely diss Madonna in a very ugly way and > then you say something I agree with totally :) :) I'm glad we agree! Isn't a piano the most CONTRIVED instrument ever? It's creates beautiful music, but it's the least obvious invention of a musical instrument I can imagine. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:03:00 EST From: Mithors@aol.com Subject: Re: Keiko Matsui concert To: Star eyes. Do you know were i can get some of those tickets to see Keiko Matsui on April fourth? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:56:40 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: Madonna and electronics I have that book in my coffee table. It is quite humorous. It reads like a naughty teenager's diary. - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata If you define cowardice as running away at the first sign of danger, screaming and tripping and begging for mercy, then yes, Mr. Brave man, I guess I'm a coward. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Steve O'Hearn Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:31 PM To: basia@smoe.org Subject: RE: Madonna and electronics Regarding my comment - after achieving pop icon status among the juvenille set, Madonna released a book in the US with a few hundred photos of herself naked, aka Playboy magazine, and started release videos involving S&M and gay/lesbian orgy themes and simulated sex scenes. - - Steve ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V7 #38 **************************