From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V6 #122 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Tuesday, November 6 2001 Volume 06 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Chris Wins for Best Email ["ERNEST L GUNTER" ] Re: Spelt Like This ["Navaira" ] Re: Steve's suggestion ["Navaira" ] Re: BABY KITTY BASIA!!! plus, recommended Polish listening ["Navaira" ] RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? [whroberts@iquest.net] RE: A new addition to the family, BABY KITTY BASIA!!! [whroberts@iquest.n] Re: Non-Basia: Speaking about values [whroberts@iquest.net] The New Best Post ["Steve O'Hearn" ] Re: The New Best Post [whroberts@iquest.net] Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? [VOKALYZER@aol.com] Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? [VOKALYZER@aol.com] RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? ["Jeff Abrams" ] Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? [whroberts@iquest.net] RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? [whroberts@iquest.net] Re: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) [whroberts@iquest.net] RE: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) ["Jeff Abrams" ] RE: ORIGINAL POSTING ["Jeff Abrams" ] RE: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) [whroberts@iquest.net] Re: ORIGINAL POSTING ["ERNEST L GUNTER" ] RE: The New Best Post pt. 2 [whroberts@iquest.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:02:28 -0800 From: "ERNEST L GUNTER" Subject: Re: Chris Wins for Best Email LOLRHO (Risking Hernia Operation) I just really love you guys and the intellect you play the game of life with. Yes, that sentence ended in a preposition. You have managed to make the stressed yet happy mother of six laugh "again". Thanks a mil. Thelma of South Carolina - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve O'Hearn" To: Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: Chris Wins for Best Email > > Chris - > > Excellent points. Best post in this latest round. > > - Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > > Chris Walsh > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:03 PM > > To: basia@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? > > > > > > > > It's quite interesting what this whole thing has brought about: > > > > - Defending free speech, free expression.. > > - Delete it, or leave it... > > > > It is the joy of this country that we do have these freedoms, and > > I feel as > > strongly about them as I'm sure most of you do. > > > > However, I don't enjoy having to explain to my young daughter who is old > > enough to know what Playboy is, why Dad get's these kind of > > messages in his > > mailbox, etc., and next explain to the Mrs... > > > > I have been on this group for some time, and haven't encountered > > such line's > > in the Subject. Whether I find the topic distasteful in relation > > to Basia, > > is purely my opinion, as I too have the freedom to speak if I so desire as > > well. Having some tact, discretion, and consideration for the potential > > audience here is not asking you to give up your right to free speech. > > > > C > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Abrams" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:31 PM > > Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? > > > > > > > > > > David, > > > > > > You mean - who care about YOUR values. Not the same thing. > > > > > > But I digress... > > > > > > I have been a fan of Basia and her music for as long, if not longer than > > ANY of you. (I'm sure there are at least a few people left on the > > list that > > are in a similar situation, so don't get too ruffled.) > > > I had a copy of T&T before they went on sale (though I didn't > > listen to it > > until AFTER I heard "FNO" on the radio - my mistake), I was present at > > several dates on her first tour and was playing "Half a Minute" at gigs > > BEFORE she had her own deal. I've been face-to-face with Ms. T > > several times > > and have had more than one occasion to "ogle" her if it had been my intent > > to do so. > > > That said, I've never really entertained the idea of her "naked" before > > this post came up and it is not likely to cross my mind much > > after this. She > > occupies a much higher plane of existence in my mind than most of > > the women > > I've ever interacted with and she just isn't a sex object as far as I'm > > concerned. > > > > > > However, everyone has the right to express that thought and if you don't > > like it, you can either hit delete or leave the list. > > > > > > Basia's music is a vital part of my psyche but the first > > amendment and its > > implications are a matter of life or death in my mind. Don't screw around > > and don't confuse "decent" with "constrained". > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Jeff Abrams > > > clavier@bellatlantic.net > > > > > > SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS > > > http://www.mazdamaniac.com > > > TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata > > > > > > > > > Somebody told me how frightening it was how much topsoil we are > > losing each year, but I told that story around the campfire and nobody got > > scared. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > > > DAVID L GROVES > > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > To: basia@smoe.org > > > Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? > > > > > > > > > > > > To Chris Walsh, > > > > > > > > > I was wondering when someone would grow up and realize that > > talking about > > > her in this way is demeaning! Basia has a lot more class in her pinky > > > finger than any model could ever dream of. Thank you for > > showing me that > > > there are still decent people that care about values! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:35:04 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: Re: Spelt Like This > Having, well, virtually speaking, "run my mouth", I'll get into my main > subject: What is the correct pronunciation of her last name, > "Trzetrzelewska"? I know very little about the pronunciation rules of Polish, > except that "w" is pronounced like "v", "cz" is pronounced like "ch", and some > other rules. Therefore, I know that the last part of her name sounds like > "levska", but I have no idea on how the "z"s work in their places in her name. > Is there anyone out there who would help me? I have an unusual-spelled and > pronounced last name; it is of Russian derivation, and having this, I have an > appreciation of pronouncing people's names correctly. Tshe-tshe-leff-skuh. :) (-) Ray [ are you serious + I'm just curious ] [ www.navaira.prv.pl ] - -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:44:36 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: Re: Steve's suggestion > Here's a suggestion...everyone cut and paste this nice, non-threatening > message, and we'll all fill in the blanks and send it in on a regular basis: > > Hi, my name is ____Ray_____. I really like Basia, her music is great! My > favorite album by her is ___London Warsaw New York_____. I have seen her in concert _0_ times, in > ___The Middle Of Nowhere, Poland____. It was great! Her band is great! Does anyone know when she'll have a new album? :D (-) Ray [ are you serious + I'm just curious ] [ www.navaira.prv.pl ] - -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:54:39 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: Re: BABY KITTY BASIA!!! plus, recommended Polish listening Joe wrote: > All I'll say about the Basia-Playboy issue is that imagining Basia is such a > pose is like trying to imagine my sister, friend, etc. in such a pose. It > grosses me out, somewhat incestuous. Yes, that's it. The *duuuh!* feeling inside you. I wonder if that's what the family of Janet Jackson feel like when they hear her doing "Throb", by the way. > ANYWAY, I had to let the whole world know that I have recently adopted a new > cat. And what better name to give her? BASIA, after my favorite diva. And > this cat definitely needed a diva name. Now I can ask her, "What's the deal > with your new album?" constantly, but something tells me I don't think > she'll give me an answer. Great!!! Can I get a photo? (send it personally, not to the list :D) BTW. To make this a bit Basia-related - the latest album by a Polish vocalist Reni Jusis is called "Elektrenika" and about half of the tracks sound like Basia on "Time and Tide"'s more energetic tracks. It's a bit Matt Bianco, actually. I recommend searching for her on Napster-or-whatever's-the-latest-trick. Recommended tracks: "Dla ciebie wyjde z siebie", "Snilo mi sie" (very Basia IMO), "Jutro odpowiem". Also "Jakby przez sen" which doesn't sound too Basia, actually, but I love it desperately. "Elektrenika" is Reni's third album but it's only now she has become really good - before that she did what I call junkpop, now she's a real dance music artist. And she likes the Eighties sounds which is always an advantage in my eyes. She doesn't have a voice as great as Basia but is a good singer nevertheless. So there you go. If anyone tries and gives Reni a shot, tell me how did you like her. (-) Ray [ are you serious + I'm just curious ] [ www.navaira.prv.pl ] - -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:43:31 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: Non-Basia: Speaking about values > I was wondering when someone would grow up and realize that talking about > her in this way is demeaning! Basia has a lot more class in her pinky > finger than any model could ever dream of. Thank you for showing me that > there are still decent people that care about values! Okay, here's my turn. (by the way, if I'm Polish and Basia is Polish and I speak about Poland, does that mean everything I post is on topic? ;) In Poland there's always a lot of fuss regarding the Catholic religion, sex and violence in the TV. In general the attitude is like that: 1) religion can only be presented as The Greatest Part Of Our Humble Lives, 2) sex is forbidden, 3) violence is normal and okay. (that is, of course the private stations, like the second biggest TV station in Poland Polsat, broadcast the Playboy programmes, which invariably feature lesbian scenes between naked women, but that's not very arousing for me personally... the rules I named here are for the public TV channels) As it happens, my way of thinking is: 1) religion is everyone's own business, 2) sex is a great fun, 3) violence is unacceptable. I was once flicking through the channels and TVP1, the public television, who never broadcast anything sex related, were at that moment broadcasting one of those "Action movies" and in that moment guy's head was being crushed in irons. I almost fainted. It was at 8:30 PM! It's not as if they played that in the middle of the night. So seeing torture in the public TV is okay, but sex is bad, right? So. If you say "there are decent people who care about values!", don't forget to add "my" before "values". (-) Ray [ are you serious + I'm just curious ] [ www.navaira.prv.pl ] - -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:35:47 +0100 From: "Navaira" Subject: Re: Not Spelt Like This >>What is the correct pronunciation of her last name, > "Trzetrzelewska"? > > I believe its is pronounced shuh-shuh-leav-ska. *ROTFL* Sorry John, it's not the case :)))) (-) Ray [ are you serious + I'm just curious ] [ www.navaira.prv.pl ] - -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:54:48 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? >I have been a fan of Basia and her music for as long, if not longer than ANY of you. (I'm sure there are at least a few people left on the list that are in a similar situation, so don't get too ruffled.) I had a copy of T&T before they went on sale (though I didn't listen to it until AFTER I heard "FNO" on the radio - my mistake), I was present at several dates on her first tour and was playing "Half a Minute" at gigs BEFORE she had her own deal. I've been face-to-face with Ms. T several times and have had more than one occasion to "ogle" her if it had been my intent to do so. Good for you, but that doesn't put you in a superior position to those of us who have recently discovered Basia. You have been saying that people on this list have a right to say what they think and that's fine. The rest of us have a right to say we don't like it, also. If that is what you or anyone else calls "thought police", then it sounds disturbingly like those First Amendment types who scream freedom of speech until they encounter someone who disagrees with them. Then it goes out the window. >David, > >You mean - who care about YOUR values. Not the same thing. > >But I digress... > >I have been a fan of Basia and her music for as long, if not longer than ANY of you. (I'm sure there are at least a few people left on the list that are in a similar situation, so don't get too ruffled.) >I had a copy of T&T before they went on sale (though I didn't listen to it until AFTER I heard "FNO" on the radio - my mistake), I was present at several dates on her first tour and was playing "Half a Minute" at gigs BEFORE she had her own deal. I've been face-to-face with Ms. T several times and have had more than one occasion to "ogle" her if it had been my intent to do so. >That said, I've never really entertained the idea of her "naked" before this post came up and it is not likely to cross my mind much after this. She occupies a much higher plane of existence in my mind than most of the women I've ever interacted with and she just isn't a sex object as far as I'm concerned. > >However, everyone has the right to express that thought and if you don't like it, you can either hit delete or leave the list. > >Basia's music is a vital part of my psyche but the first amendment and its implications are a matter of life or death in my mind. Don't screw around and don't confuse "decent" with "constrained". > >--- > >Jeff Abrams >clavier@bellatlantic.net > >SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS >http://www.mazdamaniac.com >TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata > > > Somebody told me how frightening it was how much topsoil we are losing each year, but I told that story around the campfire and nobody got scared. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of >DAVID L GROVES >Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:01 PM >To: basia@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? > > > >To Chris Walsh, > > >I was wondering when someone would grow up and realize that talking about >her in this way is demeaning! Basia has a lot more class in her pinky >finger than any model could ever dream of. Thank you for showing me that >there are still decent people that care about values! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:05:30 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: A new addition to the family, BABY KITTY BASIA!!! >So now the question is whether John's cat Basia will pose naked. > My observations about cats indicate they have no shame. > >So now the question is whether John's cat Basia will pose naked. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of >> John Palcher >> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 11:43 PM >> To: Basia List >> Subject: Fw: A new addition to the family, BABY KITTY BASIA!!! >> >> >> >> All I'll say about the Basia-Playboy issue is that imagining >> Basia is such a >> pose is like trying to imagine my sister, friend, etc. in such a pose. It >> grosses me out, somewhat incestuous. >> >> ANYWAY, I had to let the whole world know that I have recently >> adopted a new >> cat. And what better name to give her? BASIA, after my favorite >> diva. And >> this cat definitely needed a diva name. Now I can ask her, >> "What's the deal >> with your new album?" constantly, but something tells me I don't think >> she'll give me an answer. >> >> She definitely is a cutie, and quite befitting of the Basia name. >> >> raburabu >> joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:12:02 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: Non-Basia: Speaking about values >) sex is a great fun It can be. It also be very ugly and gruesome. When I was growing up in the '60's and '70's there were basically three sexually transmitted diseases to worry about. Now with our "liberated" attitude, we have 38 STD's in our society, some incurable and fatal. 1) religion is everyone's own >business, Maybe we would be better off if sex was kept a private matter too. > >> I was wondering when someone would grow up and realize that talking about >> her in this way is demeaning! Basia has a lot more class in her pinky >> finger than any model could ever dream of. Thank you for showing me that >> there are still decent people that care about values! >Okay, here's my turn. > >(by the way, if I'm Polish and Basia is Polish and I speak about Poland, >does that mean everything I post is on topic? ;) > >In Poland there's always a lot of fuss regarding the Catholic religion, sex >and violence in the TV. In general the attitude is like that: 1) religion >can only be presented as The Greatest Part Of Our Humble Lives, 2) sex is >forbidden, 3) violence is normal and okay. (that is, of course the private >stations, like the second biggest TV station in Poland Polsat, broadcast the >Playboy programmes, which invariably feature lesbian scenes between naked >women, but that's not very arousing for me personally... the rules I named >here are for the public TV channels) > >As it happens, my way of thinking is: 1) religion is everyone's own >business, 2) sex is a great fun, 3) violence is unacceptable. I was once >flicking through the channels and TVP1, the public television, who never >broadcast anything sex related, were at that moment broadcasting one of >those "Action movies" and in that moment guy's head was being crushed in >irons. I almost fainted. It was at 8:30 PM! It's not as if they played that >in the middle of the night. So seeing torture in the public TV is okay, but >sex is bad, right? > >So. If you say "there are decent people who care about values!", don't >forget to add "my" before "values". > > (-) Ray >[ are you serious + I'm just curious ] >[ www.navaira.prv.pl ] > > >-- > >Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! >[ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:27:37 -0500 From: "Steve O'Hearn" Subject: The New Best Post > 1) religion is everyone's own > >business, > > Maybe we would be better off if sex was kept a private matter too. THANK YOU! What kind of irony exists today where free speech exists for everyone and every thing - EXCEPT for Christians, the very people who fought and died for freedom of speech, and wrote the leading legal foundations that support it, 200 years ago. Thank you. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:53:06 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: The New Best Post >Thank you. > >- Steve > Your welcome. Bill > >> 1) religion is everyone's own >> >business, >> >> Maybe we would be better off if sex was kept a private matter too. > >THANK YOU! > >What kind of irony exists today where free speech exists for everyone and >every thing - EXCEPT for Christians, the very people who fought and died for >freedom of speech, and wrote the leading legal foundations that support it, >200 years ago. > >Thank you. > >- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:50:52 EST From: VOKALYZER@aol.com Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? Well said, Jeff... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:20:03 EST From: VOKALYZER@aol.com Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? After some of the more ridiculous tangents that have been gone off on in the past, I'm surprised that this has so many people in an uproar. Granted, this is a topic that could devolve into something less than any of us would want to see in this forum. But guess what? With the possible exception of the guy (gal)? who asked for the nude flicks (and that was either a joke or someone lost), the discussion has been reasonably tasteful. We've even had the obligatory sensitive guy who tells the ladies on the list that centerfolds are all angles and airbrushing. (Let me assure you, there are definitely some prerequisites necessary before you can get lighted and angled into a fantasy.) But I digress... My point is, this ain't no airport security check, or a crowded movie theater, or a church. Adults are here, talking about what adults talk about. Which is whatever they want. Gotta go now...the Thought Police are waiting to escort me to the Ministry of Truth... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:23:10 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? But you didn't say you don't like it. You said I shouldn't say it. - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? Good for you, but that doesn't put you in a superior position to those of us who have recently discovered Basia. You have been saying that people on this list have a right to say what they think and that's fine. The rest of us have a right to say we don't like it, also. If that is what you or anyone else calls "thought police", then it sounds disturbingly like those First Amendment types who scream freedom of speech until they encounter someone who disagrees with them. Then it goes out the window. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:51:43 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) The "Christians" you describe did not create free speech. It is a pre-supposed right granted by birth. The laws that exist to protect it in the US were drafted by people who understood this. The fact that most of them were Christians is irrelevant as is the fact that the laws were conceived by Greeks many years before Christ was born. What, exactly, are "Christians" having a difficult time saying? You can say anything you want. The problem is that many of the so-called "Christians" are trying to equate "freedom of speech" with "imposition of will". They aren't concerned with what they say, they are disturbed by the fact that other people don't listen or regard their thoughts as somehow possessing more weight of truth than their own opinions. - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some whore he picked up in town. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Steve O'Hearn Subject: The New Best Post > 1) religion is everyone's own > >business, > > Maybe we would be better off if sex was kept a private matter too. THANK YOU! What kind of irony exists today where free speech exists for everyone and every thing - EXCEPT for Christians, the very people who fought and died for freedom of speech, and wrote the leading legal foundations that support it, 200 years ago. Thank you. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:06:07 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? >>We've even had the obligatory sensitive guy who tells the ladies on the list >that centerfolds are all angles and airbrushing. >(Let me assure you, there >are definitely some prerequisites necessary before you can get lighted and >angled into a fantasy.) No doubt. You have to be willing to be photographed nude. Of course there are the poor girls out there who had pictures taken of them several years ago and then are incensed when they end up in a magazine after they become famous. BTW, I was the guy who brought up airbrushing and I have never been considered the "sensitive guy". I just happen to be a cynical realist. Thought police? I don't care what you think. I'll enjoy the same freedom to think what I want as well. > >After some of the more ridiculous tangents that have been gone off on in the >past, I'm surprised that this has so many people in an uproar. >Granted, this is a topic that could devolve into something less than any of >us would want to see in this forum. But guess what? With the possible >exception of the guy (gal)? who asked for the nude flicks (and that was >either a joke or someone lost), the discussion has been reasonably tasteful. >We've even had the obligatory sensitive guy who tells the ladies on the list >that centerfolds are all angles and airbrushing. (Let me assure you, there >are definitely some prerequisites necessary before you can get lighted and >angled into a fantasy.) But I digress... >My point is, this ain't no airport security check, or a crowded movie >theater, or a church. Adults are here, talking about what adults talk about. > Which is whatever they want. >Gotta go now...the Thought Police are waiting to escort me to the Ministry of >Truth... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:15:50 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? >>But you didn't say you don't like it. >You said I shouldn't say it. > I think you have me confused with someone else on the list. I said nothing of the sort. However, there are different ways of saying "I don't like something". If someone on this list says we ought to be sensitive to the females on this list, is that saying you can't say what you feel? No. Anyway, maybe some of the females here like to talk about sex too. I didn't care if someone wants to see a naked photo of Basia. I don't agree with the mentality, but go ahead and say it. I think the famales on this list can tell us for themselves if they are offended by the subject matter. But when people start talking about "thought police" because someone expresses a conservative morality, then I'm not going to be quiet or understanding anymore. It's too easy to call names when the content of someone's argument is empty. >But you didn't say you don't like it. >You said I shouldn't say it. > >--- > >Jeff Abrams >clavier@bellatlantic.net > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of >whroberts@iquest.net >Subject: RE: Appropriate Discussion? - Playboy caliber body? > > > >Good for you, but that doesn't put you in a superior position to those of us >who have recently discovered Basia. You have been saying that people on >this >list have a right to say what they think and that's fine. The rest of us >have >a right to say we don't like it, also. If that is what you or anyone else >calls >"thought police", then it sounds disturbingly like those First Amendment >types >who scream freedom of speech until they encounter someone who disagrees with >them. Then it goes out the window. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:30:27 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: Re: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) >The "Christians" you describe did not create free speech. It is a >pre-supposed right granted by birth. The line is: "granted by our Creator". Just because someone is born, doesn't mean they get human rights. >>What, exactly, are "Christians" having a difficult time saying? You can say anything you want. Thank you. I will. >The problem is that many of the so-called "Christians" are trying to equate >"freedom of speech" with "imposition of will". >They aren't concerned with what they say, they are disturbed by the fact >that other people don't listen or regard their thoughts as somehow >possessing more weight of truth than their own opinions. > Imposition of will? Granted there is a strain of Christianity that wants to create a theocracy here in the U.S. But I happen to know for a fact that they are in the minority. As far as the rest of your statement, I have no idea what you mean. The tendency for some personality types to get upset when someone disagrees with them is hardly unique to the Christian community. Take this list for instance. I don't know how many Christians are on this list. I have not been on it for very long. How many complaints have there been that Basia has been divorced twice and has been living with her trumpet player, Kevin Robinson, for several years in London? I don't agree with that lifestyle, but I'm not condemning her for it either. That is Basia's business. I have reasons both Scriptural and scientific for believing that lifestyle is a bad idea. I still enjoy her music anyway, and I wish she would release another CD. > >The "Christians" you describe did not create free speech. It is a >pre-supposed right granted by birth. >The laws that exist to protect it in the US were drafted by people who >understood this. The fact that most of them were Christians is irrelevant as >is the fact that the laws were conceived by Greeks many years before Christ >was born. > >What, exactly, are "Christians" having a difficult time saying? >You can say anything you want. >The problem is that many of the so-called "Christians" are trying to equate >"freedom of speech" with "imposition of will". >They aren't concerned with what they say, they are disturbed by the fact >that other people don't listen or regard their thoughts as somehow >possessing more weight of truth than their own opinions. > > >--- > >Jeff Abrams >clavier@bellatlantic.net > >SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS >http://www.mazdamaniac.com >TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata > >We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. >But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back >with some whore he picked up in town. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of >Steve O'Hearn >Subject: The New Best Post > > > >> 1) religion is everyone's own >> >business, >> >> Maybe we would be better off if sex was kept a private matter too. > >THANK YOU! > >What kind of irony exists today where free speech exists for everyone and >every thing - EXCEPT for Christians, the very people who fought and died for >freedom of speech, and wrote the leading legal foundations that support it, >200 years ago. > >Thank you. > >- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:41:55 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) > The line is: "granted by our Creator". Just because someone is born, doesn't > mean they get human rights. !!!!!! This is a perfect example. Who are you to decide that your God is the grantor of human rights? Being born grants you human rights. Period. Being Christian does not guarantee them. There are plenty of non-Christians with human rights. (Actually, more non-Christians in general.) There are also plenty of Christians both denied and denying those rights. - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:46:36 -0800 From: "Maria Luisa Jimenez" Subject: ORIGINAL POSTING The subject said "Picture" and the body is below: "I'd like to see a Basia's picture but naked :-)" ******************* How we got onto freedom of speech, Playboy and its criteria for a centerforld, Christianity, Values. . .I don't know, but I read all the posts. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I'm lauging right now. I was actually amused even when I thought someone was being dumb or offensive. You all crack me up. I like every single one of you and the opinion you've had to offer. So here's my opinion: Don't know if you all have noticed that the person who posted this doesn't have a good command of the English language. My point is this: I took his posting as the quickest way of expressing that he found Basia sexually attractive. When you don't speak the language well (believe me I know this from personal experience having learned English as a second language) sometimes you don't say things as appropriately or tactfully as others might. Finding Basia sexually attractive is not offensive to me. Nudity is not offensive to me. I'm still cracking up because we all take ourselves way too seriously :) Maria Luisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:06:45 -0500 From: "Jeff Abrams" Subject: RE: ORIGINAL POSTING Excellent! I just wanted to make one, somewhat related "bridging" observation: I think everyone should be aware, when discussing such things as "morality" and "appropriateness", of the intent and mood of the various participants. It is very interesting. I find that people espousing a "conservative" viewpoint to be typically very dramatic and dour. The right seems somewhat upset most of the time. More often than not, you will find the "liberal" point of view being offered in a tone more akin to amusement than anger. (of course, this can't be a rule - there are always exceptions) Through all of this, I have had a smile on my face and a lightness in my heart. How about the other side? The "Right" tends to feel sorry for the world that they are forced to live in and that it contains such offensive opinions as espoused by the "Left". The "Left" tends to just feel sorry for the "Right". - --- Jeff Abrams clavier@bellatlantic.net SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS http://www.mazdamaniac.com TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Maria Luisa Jimenez Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:47 AM To: Basia@Smoe. Org Subject: ORIGINAL POSTING The subject said "Picture" and the body is below: "I'd like to see a Basia's picture but naked :-)" ******************* How we got onto freedom of speech, Playboy and its criteria for a centerforld, Christianity, Values. . .I don't know, but I read all the posts. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I'm lauging right now. I was actually amused even when I thought someone was being dumb or offensive. You all crack me up. I like every single one of you and the opinion you've had to offer. So here's my opinion: Don't know if you all have noticed that the person who posted this doesn't have a good command of the English language. My point is this: I took his posting as the quickest way of expressing that he found Basia sexually attractive. When you don't speak the language well (believe me I know this from personal experience having learned English as a second language) sometimes you don't say things as appropriately or tactfully as others might. Finding Basia sexually attractive is not offensive to me. Nudity is not offensive to me. I'm still cracking up because we all take ourselves way too seriously :) Maria Luisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:11:50 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: Miasma (was: The New Best Post) >This is a perfect example. > >Who are you to decide that your God is the grantor of human rights? I didn't decide it. God did. At least that is what our founding documents say here in the U.S. That is the context of what you were saying, when you talked about our founding fathers. There are plenty of people in other countries, who aren't enjoying the rights they should have. >>Being born grants you human rights. Period. That makes no sense and does not coincide with reality. If all it takes is to be born, why are there so many people born who have no rights, or at least the rights we enjoy here? And who decides what those rights are? >> The line is: "granted by our Creator". Just because someone is born, >doesn't >> mean they get human rights. > >!!!!!! > >This is a perfect example. > >Who are you to decide that your God is the grantor of human rights? >Being born grants you human rights. Period. >Being Christian does not guarantee them. >There are plenty of non-Christians with human rights. (Actually, more >non-Christians in general.) > >There are also plenty of Christians both denied and denying those rights. > >--- > >Jeff Abrams >clavier@bellatlantic.net > >SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS >http://www.mazdamaniac.com >TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata > > > It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that >man. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:05:56 -0800 From: "ERNEST L GUNTER" Subject: Re: ORIGINAL POSTING Where are you Maria? Thelma - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Luisa Jimenez" To: "Basia@Smoe. Org" Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:46 AM Subject: ORIGINAL POSTING > > The subject said "Picture" and the body is below: > > "I'd like to see a Basia's picture but naked :-)" > > ******************* > > How we got onto freedom of speech, Playboy and its criteria for a > centerforld, Christianity, Values. . .I don't know, but I read all the > posts. EVERY SINGLE ONE. > > I'm lauging right now. I was actually amused even when I thought someone was > being dumb or offensive. You all crack me up. I like every single one of you > and the opinion you've had to offer. > > So here's my opinion: > > Don't know if you all have noticed that the person who posted this doesn't > have a good command of the English language. My point is this: I took his > posting as the quickest way of expressing that he found Basia sexually > attractive. When you don't speak the language well (believe me I know this > from personal experience having learned English as a second language) > sometimes you don't say things as appropriately or tactfully as others > might. > > Finding Basia sexually attractive is not offensive to me. Nudity is not > offensive to me. > > I'm still cracking up because we all take ourselves way too seriously :) > > Maria Luisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:21:25 est From: whroberts@iquest.net Subject: RE: The New Best Post pt. 2 >>>Being born grants you human rights. Period. > According to who? You? What if someone disagrees with you? Are you right or is the person who disagrees with you right? Who is to decide which position is right? We have 5 billion people on earth with 5 billion different ideas of right and wrong and what constitutes human rights, UNLESS there is a way to come to a consensus. How do you do that? In Nazi Germany, there was a consensus to kill people from a particular ethnic background. If you had been there and told them they were wrong, they might ask on what basis do you say they are wrong. > >>This is a perfect example. >> >>Who are you to decide that your God is the grantor of human rights? > >I didn't decide it. God did. At least that is what our founding documents >say here in the U.S. That is the context of what you were saying, when you >talked about our founding fathers. There are plenty of people in other countries, >who aren't enjoying the rights they should have. > >>>Being born grants you human rights. Period. > >That makes no sense and does not coincide with reality. If all it takes is >to be born, why are there so many people born who have no rights, or at least >the rights we enjoy here? >And who decides what those rights are? > > >>> The line is: "granted by our Creator". Just because someone is born, >>doesn't >>> mean they get human rights. >> >>!!!!!! >> >>This is a perfect example. >> >>Who are you to decide that your God is the grantor of human rights? >>Being born grants you human rights. Period. >>Being Christian does not guarantee them. >>There are plenty of non-Christians with human rights. (Actually, more >>non-Christians in general.) >> >>There are also plenty of Christians both denied and denying those rights. >> >>--- >> >>Jeff Abrams >>clavier@bellatlantic.net >> >>SUPERCHARGED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS >>http://www.mazdamaniac.com >>TURBOCHARGED 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata >> >> >> It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that > >>man. ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V6 #122 ***************************