From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V6 #93 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Monday, September 17 2001 Volume 06 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: (no subject) ["Andrew Fribbens" ] Re: (no subject) [Samurai27@aol.com] Re: (no subject) ["Hawkwind@alienmail.com" ] Re: (no subject) [Stephen Ylvisaker ] Re: (no subject) [VOKALYZER@aol.com] Re: WEEKEND.... New Basia fan ["Dennis J. Majewicz" ] Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters ["Andrew Fribbens" ] Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters ["MCH" ] Fw: OT: Terrorist Supporters ["Steve Richardson" ] Are we alone??? ["Andrew Fribbens" ] Re the panic ["Andrew Fribbens" ] Re: Re the panic [VOKALYZER@aol.com] Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters ["Hawkwind@alienmail.com" ] Re: More Fire Than Flame [Somegirl99@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:17:33 +0100 From: "Andrew Fribbens" Subject: Re: (no subject) Any thoughts for the morons that I havre to work with each day in London that support these Morons that carried out this disaster!! They praise Allah while we all mourn our dead.Pray that George Bush does not start up a needless war.We have enough already with the IRA bombing our innocent teenagers out on a night of fun Anne Martin - ------------------------------------ Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World! http://www.eboom.com/free/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 4:58 AM Subject: Re: (no subject) > > In a message dated 9/15/2001 7:40:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > JPovlock@aol.com writes: > > > > JPovlock@aol.com > > > > I agree with Jim. I take for granted that everyone on this list has some > sort of belief system, but I won't bash you with mine if you don't bludgeon > me with yours. > > Having said that, I'm sure that we all are praying for the healing of our > nation and the families of each person who needlessly died, the safety of all > the rescue workers still working in the "pit," and the reestablishment of the > security of our lives, and we are doing so in whatever way seems best to each > of us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:58:54 EDT From: Samurai27@aol.com Subject: Re: (no subject) My only comments is how can people pray to God and then support the act of killing innocent people. God is merciful, a loving God not a God based on anger and destruction. A religious following cannot sustain itself on hate it must be based on love to survive. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 2001 13:08:26 -0000 From: "Hawkwind@alienmail.com" Subject: Re: (no subject) I think history proves that throughout the centuries followers of all faiths have committed atrocities in the name of their respective religions. It's truly sad that in the 21st century these religious miscreants continue to kill and devastate. But it's time they be held responsible. On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:58:54 EDT Samurai27@aol.com wrote: > >My only comments is how can people pray to God and then support the act of >killing innocent people. God is merciful, a loving God not a God based on >anger and destruction. A religious following cannot sustain itself on hate it >must be based on love to survive. > ******************** ******************** In the mirrors of myth The secrets of these timeless layers unfold Their echoes in the future Traces of times past untold Is there anything left to me In this experiment with destiny --Hawkwind 1982 ____________________________________________________________ Believe. Sign up for FREE E-mail at http://www.Alienmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:38:55 -0700 From: Stephen Ylvisaker Subject: Re: (no subject) >My only comments is how can people pray to God and then support the act of >killing innocent people. God is merciful, a loving God not a God based on >anger and destruction. A religious following cannot sustain itself on hate it >must be based on love to survive. Like most humanists, you forgot that God is a JUST God. Therein lies most people misunderstanding of the nature of God. Stephen Ylvisaker greyfell@gns2000.com "That's the whole problem with science. You've got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder." - Calvin (& Hobbes) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:00:03 EDT From: VOKALYZER@aol.com Subject: Re: (no subject) My understanding is that there is actually nothing in the Koran that justifies what these barbarians have done...perhaps you should suggest that they study that real tenets of their faith and stop listening to the rants of the megalomaniacs that insist upon bastardizing their religion. One question, though: what makes you think the war hasn't already started? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:53:20 -0400 From: "Dennis J. Majewicz" Subject: Re: WEEKEND.... New Basia fan It's one thing to see it on television, but I'm sure quite another to witness it in person. Glad to hear you're safe, Bob. Dennis - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Rumsby" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 12:07 AM Subject: Re: WEEKEND.... New Basia fan > > I have only been a lurker on this list for the past 2 years (expect when > I do hear news from Peter or Danny White. > > I work 2 blocks south of what used to be the Twin Towers. > > I witnessed with my own eyes the second plane ramming > the tower. > > I witnessed with my own eyes the first tower coming down, > and was attempting to get away for the area when the second > tower collapsed. Being in the street and in the open with a cloud > of black smoke and rubble is not my way of spending a > Tuesday morning. > > I was also glad that I was one of the many that got away. > > It was not a very pleasant experience to say the least. > > Now Ms Basia has not put out a complete new album for X > years and has only titillated us with a partial album with > Clear Horizon. The news is not good for a new album to be > released for quiet a while yet. > > Now there is only so much that you can say about the past > albums of Basia. > > Lets hope that the occasional off topic posting can be > accepted. > > bfn > BobR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:52:31 -0700 From: "MCH" Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters Andrew, If you really have people expressing support for the terrorism, they might possibly be close to a group that is linked to it. Please, contact your equivalent of the US FBI or CIA, and give them the names of these people. Seriously. It might at least generate some leads, or point to a group that needs to be watched. That is the nature of these times. We all must do everything we can to ferret out terrorists and ALL who support them-- even if they are co-workers. Obviously, that would take some courage on your part. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Fribbens To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 3:17 AM Subject: Re: (no subject) > > Any thoughts for the morons that I havre to work with each day in London > that support these Morons that carried out this disaster!! They praise Allah > while we all mourn our dead.Pray that George Bush does not start up a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:42:07 +0100 From: "Andrew Fribbens" Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters I hate to disapoint you but it isnt anything to do with Andrew but his partner Anne.These people are not supporters but it is their way of life.They are associated with a disabled relative normally a dying one hence the reason I care for them.But they are quite clear what their beliefs are.I am a catholicand in Ireland I would be a possible targete,these people are Muslims or Islamics living here peacefully.I have strong Catholic views thay have strong Islamic views.Those that carried out the bombings are extremists.I dont need to worry. if we all stressed out about everybody with strong views does that mean encarserating all of them?? I dont think so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands of people that you all work with support the Islamic view? Anne - ------------------------------------ Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World! http://www.eboom.com/free/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "MCH" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters > > Andrew, > If you really have people expressing support for the terrorism, > they might possibly be close to a group that is linked to it. > Please, contact your equivalent of the US FBI or CIA, > and give them the names of these people. Seriously. > It might at least generate some leads, or point to a group > that needs to be watched. > > That is the nature of these times. We all must do everything > we can to ferret out terrorists and ALL who support them-- > even if they are co-workers. Obviously, that would take > some courage on your part. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Fribbens > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 3:17 AM > Subject: Re: (no subject) > > > > > > Any thoughts for the morons that I havre to work with each day in London > > that support these Morons that carried out this disaster!! They praise Allah > > while we all mourn our dead.Pray that George Bush does not start up a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:11:41 -0700 From: "MCH" Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters > so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be > imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands of > people that you all work with support the Islamic view? > Anne Well, you're the one who said your co-workers were praising Allah after the genocidal atrocity in New York. You think that's OK? Quite seriously, if I witnessed or knew of anyone bluntly expressing approval and support for that act, I would make sure the authorities had the opportunity to investigate them, and I very strongly urge all of you reading this to do the same. PICK UP THE PHONE. This is not, in ANY WAY, a "freedom of speech" issue now. People insane enough to endorse that atrocity are PART OF THE PROBLEM. We all must make sure those problem people GET ON A LIST. And by the way--religion has nothing to do with it. Islam as a religion does not support or encourage the madness of these terrorists. We all need to change our liberal perspective; those days are over forever. Religious or expressive freedom cannot be used as a shield to protect ANY HINT of support for terrorism, including by speech. In today's world, if you TALK terrorism, then you ARE a terrorist, and YES we need to imprison everyone who speaks that way, because tomorrow they may give money or shelter to someone who wants to fly a plane in the same cause. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:42:22 -0700 From: "Steve Richardson" Subject: Fw: OT: Terrorist Supporters I don't know where you're getting your information, but believe me there will be no mass incarceration of anyone of Islamic faith. Quite the contrary, our politicians and military leaders at every level have stressed that harrassment, discrimination or threats against Islamic persons WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. Steve R. > if we all stressed out about everybody with > strong views does that mean encarserating all of them?? I dont think > so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be > imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands of > people that you all work with support the Islamic view? > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:27:02 +0100 From: "Andrew Fribbens" Subject: Are we alone??? And as for the Irish??? all in the name of freedom and religion - ------------------------------------ Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World! http://www.eboom.com/free/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "MCH" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters > > > so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be > > imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands of > > people that you all work with support the Islamic view? > > Anne > > Well, you're the one who said your co-workers were praising Allah > after the genocidal atrocity in New York. You think that's OK? > > Quite seriously, if I witnessed or knew of anyone bluntly expressing > approval and support for that act, I would make sure the authorities > had the opportunity to investigate them, and I very strongly urge all > of you reading this to do the same. PICK UP THE PHONE. > > This is not, in ANY WAY, a "freedom of speech" issue now. > People insane enough to endorse that atrocity are PART OF THE PROBLEM. > We all must make sure those problem people GET ON A LIST. > > And by the way--religion has nothing to do with it. Islam as a religion > does not support or encourage the madness of these terrorists. > We all need to change our liberal perspective; those days are over > forever. Religious or expressive freedom cannot be used as a shield > to protect ANY HINT of support for terrorism, including by speech. > In today's world, if you TALK terrorism, then you ARE a terrorist, > and YES we need to imprison everyone who speaks that way, > because tomorrow they may give money or shelter to someone who > wants to fly a plane in the same cause. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:31:23 +0100 From: "Andrew Fribbens" Subject: Re the panic Why o Why is it because of this incident thisconversation goes on? most of the world including us English have been terrorised bombed or other wise while America sits and looks on... the fact that they actually collect money for the IRA gives us the right to question all that is said how many come to our aid each time one of our kids are wounded or murdered by the IRA ... - ------------------------------------ Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World! http://www.eboom.com/free/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Richardson" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:42 PM Subject: Fw: OT: Terrorist Supporters > > I don't know where you're getting your information, but believe me there > will be no mass incarceration of anyone of Islamic faith. Quite the > contrary, our politicians and military leaders at every level have stressed > that harrassment, discrimination or threats against Islamic persons WILL NOT > BE TOLERATED. > > Steve R. > > > if we all stressed out about everybody with > > strong views does that mean encarserating all of them?? I dont think > > so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be > > imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands > of > > people that you all work with support the Islamic view? > > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:34:18 EDT From: VOKALYZER@aol.com Subject: Re: Re the panic You can't possibly be implying that the US government supports the IRA in any way, can you? Nor can you have possibly forgotten the many, many years and the innumerable times America has kept Europe from being overrun by one ideology or another, in spite of the fact that the governments of Europe chastise, criticize, berate and ridicule our country at every possible opportunity. Maybe you believe NATO would be just as strong without the participation of American forces. Here's hoping you never have to find out... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 2001 21:30:15 -0000 From: "Hawkwind@alienmail.com" Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters I'll just forward these emails--full headers attached-- to the FBI and Scotland Yard. This kind of sympathetic insanity doesn't wash. Tell this to them. On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:42:07 +0100 Andrew Fribbens wrote: > >I hate to disapoint you but it isnt anything to do with Andrew but his >partner Anne.These people are not supporters but it is their way of >life.They are associated with a disabled relative normally a dying one hence >the reason I care for them.But they are quite clear what their beliefs are.I >am a catholicand in Ireland I would be a possible targete,these people are >Muslims or Islamics living here peacefully.I have strong Catholic views thay >have strong Islamic views.Those that carried out the bombings are >extremists.I dont need to worry. if we all stressed out about everybody with >strong views does that mean encarserating all of them?? I dont think >so... America might well panic but does that mean that you will be >imprissoning every body that is not strictly American?how many thousands of >people that you all work with support the Islamic view? >Anne > > >------------------------------------ >Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World! >http://www.eboom.com/free/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MCH" >To: >Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:52 PM >Subject: Re: OT: Terrorist Supporters > > >> >> Andrew, >> If you really have people expressing support for the terrorism, >> they might possibly be close to a group that is linked to it. >> Please, contact your equivalent of the US FBI or CIA, >> and give them the names of these people. Seriously. >> It might at least generate some leads, or point to a group >> that needs to be watched. >> >> That is the nature of these times. We all must do everything >> we can to ferret out terrorists and ALL who support them-- >> even if they are co-workers. Obviously, that would take >> some courage on your part. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Andrew Fribbens >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 3:17 AM >> Subject: Re: (no subject) >> >> >> > >> > Any thoughts for the morons that I havre to work with each day in London >> > that support these Morons that carried out this disaster!! They praise >Allah >> > while we all mourn our dead.Pray that George Bush does not start up a > ____________________________________________________________ Believe. Sign up for FREE E-mail at http://www.Alienmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:13:55 -0700 From: George Nolan Subject: Re:how many thousands >>Andrew Fribbens wrote >>how many thousands of people that you all work with support the Islamic view? None! Blissfully none! Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:12:58 EDT From: Somegirl99@aol.com Subject: Re: More Fire Than Flame Steve said: > > Just to clarify, the name calling started when the Christian post was > attacked. To quote: > > "Just goes to prove that not all the 'crazies' are Islamics." > My point of view... I wasn't offended at all by the original post. I didn't think it necessarily belonged on this particular list, but hey, we go off on tangents all the time, so what's one more? I WAS offended by the term "crazies". I was brought up in a Pentecostal Protestant church, and while I don't "practice" my religion (I have a potty mouth, smoke cigarettes like a chimney, and haven't been to church in awhile - - all no-no's for me) it's still deep in my soul. Maybe that only classifies me as semi "crazy", but the term still offended me. Enough to say something about it? No. I wouldn't have said anything if this thread hadn't continued... and if I didn't think Steve was getting attacked for his personal beliefs. I guess I just wanted him to know he's not standing alone with his opinions. I'm sorry, but I don't remember who posted the original post. But whoever it was... what was so terribly wrong about it? Who here has not been effected by the terrorist attacks? Which one of you can say you didn't feel any sadness? How many of you sat stunned as you watched that second plane slam into the tower? How many of you can say you're not now pissed and want some kind of revenge? And those of you with family/friends in New York or Washington... did you, or did you not, grab that phone to make sure they were all right? I don't think any "decent" person on earth (your average Joe) can look at those film clips and not feel some compassion for those 1000's of people that died so horribly. Everybody's expressing their compassion, their sadness, their outrage and even their patriotism in different ways. I can't go heft buckets with the firefighters. I can't open my doors to a stranger that's stranded in the city while they search for their husband, wife, friend. I can't make a big dish of lasagne and pass out plates of it to passing rescue workers. All I can do is donate money and blood, call my in-laws in NY, and fly a flag on my car and motorcycle. And so this guy makes a post because he believes in God, heaven & hell, and that the second coming is around the corner. Wouldn't you expect a Christian to say something to that effect at a time like this? I would, and would wonder about any so called "Christian" that DIDN'T say something like that at a time like this. Personally, I think the one that called him a "crazy" should reread it. Maybe even print it out and commit it to memory. Jacki ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V6 #93 **************************