From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V4 #106 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Thursday, May 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 106 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Opinious [Ray Navarra ] Re: Opinions, please! [Leslie Brown ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:16:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Ray Navarra Subject: Opinious Hey all, hmm. Smoe must have eaten my latest post for breakfast. Anybody else encountered that feeling of not being able to put emails longer than 5 KB through Smoe's ever-hungry jaw? Joe wrote: > I am glad that there is a Basia list because it allows all of us to > get together to talk about one common love--Basia--and share other > musical interests. However, I don't think the list should be a medium > for bashing musical tastes that we personally may not like. I don't > have a problem with people saying that they don't like a certain > artist or a certain type of music. If you do, feel please feel to say > so. But sometimes things that have been said about artists and genres > of music that list members don't like have been what I consider > somewhat offensive. My attitude to these things is simple - I just don't listen to those comments. I never let them bother me, because I understand that it's the personal point of view. But there's a thin line between expressing your opinion and offending others with your opinion, the line's thin to the degree where you either 1) try to be politically correct and construct sentences like "to be honest, in my opinion, I don't really think that Artist X is the best artist I've ever heard, although I might be wrong"... and 2) you say "Artist X is shit" not even thinking for a second that others might be offended. > that the music I listen to is crap. You know, some people could just > as easily call Basia's music crap (heaven forbid!), and I don't think > any of us would like that. So why do we sometimes do it to others? Hmm. As much as I hate people saying this, my response to people saying "Pet Shop Boys are the stupid mindless disco" is saying "You're a moron". ;) > all interpret music and enjoy it in other ways. No musical form is > superior to any other--each form, each artist, has special meanings to > at least one person, and I think everyone--outside of this list and > inside--should respect that. Hmm. Can I slag the music I listen to, then? Because I can hardly think that the song "Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom" by Vengaboys has ANY meaning to ANYONE. (I like the song. :) (-) Ray [::: come.to/raynavarra ::: www.mp3.com/ray_navarra ::: www.mp3.com/bard :::] Soon back online: Quite Pet Shop Boys website! Watch this space... [::: Number one this week: Mylene Farmer "L'ame-Stram-Gram" :::] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Brown Subject: Re: Opinions, please! > I don't want to be made to feel like I have to > defend the type of > music I like. But I have felt some comments about > music that I like, > like dance music and divas such as Celine and Mariah > personally > upsetting. Joe, thanks for expressing this issue. It's great to air this out in the open. However, I have to contribute my own opinion of this. For one, it's like Ray said: if someone insults the artists you like, then just don't pay atention to it. Or, offer up a counterpoint. But handle it, okay? It's not personal! It's just a musician! If soneone feels dance music is crap, I don't care for that point of view.But I'm glad someone on this list has the guts to say it. What would we do if we were all pussyfooting around ? Be bored as hell, that's what. :) by the way, I mean this with the utmost respect to Joe. :) I feel like I've spent a lot of time > outside of this list > trying to tell friends and family that I don't like > their allusions > that the music I listen to is crap. I don't like doing it either, but hey, it happens! I guess that's why opinions are called "subjective." You know, some > people could just > as easily call Basia's music crap (heaven forbid!), > and I don't think > any of us would like that. So why do we sometimes > do it to others? Um, people tell me Basia is crap quite often. I'd be really impressed if anyone on this list ever *didn't* get flak for their taste in music. Granted, though, the best way to say "I don't like Celine Dion and anything she stands for" would be "I don't like Celine Dion because I don't like her cheesy style" or whatever as opposed to "Celine Dion is crap!" But then, someone might be offended that I called her 'cheesy', which leads me to my next point... > It is my opinion that the Basia list should not be a > medium to express > such dislikes in such fashions. Please be > constructive in your > criticism and considerate. I have to admit the constructive thing is a very valid point, but I don't think anyone hasn't given a reason for their dislike. Even in our Great Dance Music Debate, whoever it was (Jim?) that said they really, really despise dance music had their reasons, and valid ones at that. We are all on this list > to celebrate > music--I don't think we should be here to diss any > of it, because we > all interpret music and enjoy it in other ways. No > musical form is > superior to any other--each form, each artist, has > special meanings to > at least one person, and I think everyone--outside > of this list and > inside--should respect that. Okay, back to the aforementioned point: The minute we start tiptoeing around everyone's sensitivities and over-moderate one another on this list is the minute that this list becomes nothing but a friggin online Basia fanclub. If I wanted to hear 50 people constantly saying, "Oh Basia is so great, isn't she just wonderful, blah blah blah, I would join the Yahoo Basia BB, okay? Not that there's anything wrong with that for those who enjoy it, but I prefer this forum myself. We talk about a variety of topics (everything from DJ culture to Polish history for gosh sakes! Where else do you get *that*!!) and personally I've met (so to speak) lots of great folks and discovered many new artists through this list. I'm a (lurking) member of a ML that's so overly self-regulatory that any kind of outside idea or thought line is practically impossible to express. Everyone constantly then ends up apologising for something they said because 3 people were offended. Give me a break! The minute we set such a precedent is the minute we lose what we love about this relatively non-regulated forum. Besides, go into the archives and check out the 1996 posts. My, have we become soft-shelled over the years, eh! :) > That is all I have to say about the topic. > Opinions, please! Joe, once again, great to have this aired in the open. I expect people will have a problem with some of my opinions here, but I can't just sit down on this one. - --Leslie (more time to be long winded now that I've GRADUATED!!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V4 #106 ***************************