From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V3 #255 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Sunday, November 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 255 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Águas de Março - Revisted ["Rob B." ] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A1guas?= de =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mar=C1o?= - Revisted [Step] WoM - Ipanema ["Rob B." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:34:04 PST From: "Rob B." Subject: Águas de Março - Revisted Not too long ago someone on the mailing list commented on how accurately Águas de Março represented the "feeling" of March with the snow melting, etc. I agree it is a well versed impression of the change of seasons but the comment made me wonder where Tom’s thought were. Março in Brazil is the beginning of fall not the beginning of spring. Did he write it specifically from the perspective of those in the northern hemisphere? If so, why? (record sales?) Or is it really about the change from summer to fall? Admittedly this is not all that important but it is curious. Regardless of the above I can’t wait to hear Basia’s rendition, particularly after the comments made by some of those on the list who have heard it. There was a suggestion by Richard216 that this Wednesday 11/18 at 9:00pm (I believe EDT) club members at the Basia Club (http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/basia) join in a chat at the club chat room. Clear Horizon will have been out a day by then and I think he’s looking to get a discussion going about first impressions, etc. If anyone here cares to join in - select the link, become a member, and set your clocks! BTW if anyone wants the lyrics to Waters of March http://www.nortemag.com/tom/e.index.html has them in both Portuguese and English. The English "interpretation" is close but not literal. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:02:15 -0800 From: Stephen Ylvisaker Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A1guas?= de =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mar=C1o?= - Revisted >Not too long ago someone on the mailing list commented on how accurately >¡guas de MarÁo represented the "feeling" of March with the snow melting, >etc. I agree it is a well versed impression of the change of seasons but >the comment made me wonder where Tomís thought were. MarÁo in Brazil is >the beginning of fall not the beginning of spring. Did he write it >specifically from the perspective of those in the northern hemisphere? >If so, why? (record sales?) Or is it really about the change from summer >to fall? Admittedly this is not all that important but it is curious. Hi! Tom Jobim seldom did the english translations of his songs. A great many of the english lyrics are not even translations, but oringinal english lyrics. By deduction, then, some of the portugese lyrics are translations from the english, because Jobim sometimes did not have lyrics until the english lyrics were written. The great jazz vocalist that wrote many english lyrics to many of Jobim's songs was John Hendricks. Hendricks is known for his talents as a poet and lyric writer, and got his fame in a group called Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross. LH&R is noted for their "vocalese", which is lyrics sung to original jazz instrumental solos. Hendricks is incredibly good at expressing the music in his poetry, and frequently achieves what the composer originally intended to express. Hendricks wrote the english lyrics for "Girl from Ipanema", and it may have been his idea to have Astrud Gilberto sing the english, even though she really had no training or experience. What does this have to do with "Waters of March"? WoM (english) was probably not written by Jobim, and the american writer (whoever it was) used his personal experiences in the lyrics. That could be why the english expresses spring, while the portugese could be talking about fall. TTFN, Stephen Stephen Ylvisaker greyfell@iname.com "That's the whole problem with science. You've got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder." - Calvin (& Hobbes) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:01:18 PST From: "Rob B." Subject: WoM - Ipanema Thanks for the info on Jobim/WoM! Might I also suggest a possible collaboration of both languages with Jobim(?) and the english speaking Mr. "X" going back and forth adding their indivdual thoughts or suggestions. BTW according to Gene Lees, it was actually Norman Gimbel who wrote they lyrics to "Girl from Ipanema" - "A music publisher had given me the telephone number of singer and guitarist João Gilberto, whom Antonio Carlos Jobim considers the father of bossa nova. His wife, Astrud, answered the telephone. She spoke a little English. She told me that João spoke none at all but she put me in touch with Jobim, who turned out to speak a fair amount of French, which made it possible for us to communicate. He invited me to his house, and there he introduced me to João Gilberto - to this day one of the most exquisite singers I have ever heard: subtle, subdued, understated, expressive, and with' remarkable time. Some six months later we were all in New York together, and I writing songs with Jobim. Stan Getz was enjoying a hit record on a tune of Jobim’s called "Desafinado", which translates as "Out of Tune" or "Off Key". The producer of that record was Creed Taylor, who promptly set up a recording session for João Gilberto and Stan Getz, with Jobim playing piano. Creed soon discovered that João couldn’t sing a word of English. He wanted a little English heard on the album. Astrud was in the studio. She spoke a little English and sang a little. Creed pressed her into service, and she-recorded in English part of one of the songs I had written with Jobim, Corcovado, which in English became "Quiet -Nights of Quiet Stars". She also sang in English Norman Gimbel’s lyric for another Jobim tune, "The Girl from Ipanema". João Gilberto was the man singer on the session, of course, but to make a single of Ipanema, Creed edited out João's vocal and released a version with Astrud's only. The record, made in 1963, grew into a hit 1964 hit. Astrud, by the way, made no royalties on the hit; Stan got them." Gene Lees - June 1993 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V3 #255 ***************************