From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V15 #153 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, July 28 2011 Volume 15 : Number 153 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. [Andrew Shearer ] [AVALON] Roxy/Ferry special edition issues? [kwil632057@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. [Richard Evans ] Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. [jocelynfiske@aol.com] RE: [AVALON] Roxy/Ferry special edition issues? [Andrew Shearer ] Re: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? [Simon Galloway Subject: RE: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. I do like Gemini Moon and Mad Dog Days Andrew www.andrewshearer.com Twitter & Facebook: @shearermusic > To: shearerandrew@hotmail.com; avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > From: kwil632057@aol.com > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:20:42 -0400 > > Not funny. One Way Love is not a joking matter. > > On a serious note, there's not a lot of love for Mamouna, is there? > Your Painted Smile is a corker as far as I'm concerned. > > J > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Shearer > To: avalon avalon > Sent: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:08 > Subject: RE: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > > > Oh and One Way Love. > > (Just joking on that last bit). > > > > > > Andrew > > > > www.andrewshearer.com > Twitter & Facebook: @shearermusic > > > > To: avalon@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > > From: kwil632057@aol.com > > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:43:57 -0400 > > > > Just read the article. Hmmm. Frantic underrated? Not at the time of > > release it wasn't. Quite the opposite. I remember it getting really > > glowing reviews when in reality it's all over the shop and one of > > Ferry's weakest in my opinion. > > Goddess of Love mentioned in the same breath as Sign of the Times? No > > thanks. > > > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Simon Galloway > > To: Avalon > > Sent: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:39 > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > > > > > > Funnily enough, last year a colleague asked me to put together a CD of > > Roxy/Ferry tunes for her younger sister who was going away to > > university. I asked her which songs her sister already knew, and the > > reply was 'Virginia Plain'. That was enough for me to go on. I didn't > > make it too obscure, stuck mainly to Roxy/Ferry singles, mostly 1970s, > > with a handful of album tracks and even slipped in To Make You Feel My > > Love, which I figured she'd know thanks to the Adele version. > > > > But if I were to choose just one (non-compilation) album to recommend, > > it would have to be For Your Pleasure. > > > > Simon > > > > On 26 July 2011 18:23, Amry K wrote: > > > If you were advising someone at a young age who had never heard of > > BF. & > > > Roxy. what would you tell them to listen to? ---ATGB when it came > > out > > > I thought it was Ferry trying to grab the Senior crowd. Too mellow > for > > > someone to get into real good. Maybe that was his goal to get > newbies > > of > > > the older generation. At his age could be his agenda. Got to appeal > to > > > all somehow to stay selling records. I do love Olympia as IMO it > does > > > reach out to several masses. After all look at Adele. appeals to all > > in > > > a crazy sort of way. ---Lets not be to judgemental on Ferry. We love > > his > > > works of yesterdays. Just be glad he still is around & got enough > > going > > > to draw for tours.---Eventually some day that voice will not be up > to > > > par but until then enjoy the hell out of what he can give us now. > > > > > > Alway's , Marlana > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > > __ > > > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > > __ > > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > __ > > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > __ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:33:55 +0000 From: Andrew Shearer Subject: RE: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. typo made me laugh Simon - I could just imagine BF going: " Brian , where's this wire go?" Andrew www.andrewshearer.com Twitter & Facebook: @shearermusic > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:24:42 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > From: simongmusic@gmail.com > To: avalon@smoe.org > > A very generous gift from Eno. Very gracious of him to share the > wriring credits with Bryan. > > :) > > Simon > > On 27 July 2011 15:56, Richard Evans wrote: > > I Thought - best Ferry solo track since Avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:35:05 +0000 From: helen@triffidbait.ca Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Only 3? Aaahhhh...for the good old days, when only Manzo was needed! Even the Beatles and the Stones only had 2 guitarists. (Don't all yell at me at once! I know how many parts can be added in studio!) "Sent from my highly addictive gizmo" - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Evans Sender: owner-avalon@smoe.org Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:29:50 To: Cc: Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Definitely over-produced - that's why I like Dylanesque - small band essentially playing live and only three guitarists On 27 Jul 2011, at 16:18, kwil632057@aol.com wrote: > I always wondered whether Ferry's latter stuff is too over-produced. The piano version of FFL is far, far superior to the Frantic version and the same could be said for the pared down version of The Only Face which sounded way too fussy on Mamouna but great on the ATGB tour and on the Jools Holland compilation. There are a couple of songs on Olympia that might benefit from this, I feel. > > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TERENCE OCONNOR > To: kwil632057 > CC: AvalonAvalon > Sent: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:03 > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > > > Frantic includes 3 of the finest Ferry compositions of the past 20 years. > Hiroshima.. > San Simeon > and I Thought. > > Even Fool For Love is a brilliant > song. Just a poor rendition. > > For these Frantic is worthy of praise. > > Terry > 'O' > > From: "kwil632057@aol.com" > To: avalon@smoe.org > Sent: > Wednesday, 27 July 2011, 15:43 > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. > > Just > read the article. Hmmm. Frantic underrated? Not at the time of release it > wasn't. Quite the opposite. I remember it getting really glowing reviews when > in reality it's all over the shop and one of Ferry's weakest in my opinion. > Goddess of Love mentioned in the same breath as Sign of the Times? No thanks. > J > > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Galloway > To: > Avalon > Sent: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:39 > Subject: Re: [AVALON] > Re: spoiler & etc. > > > Funnily enough, last year a colleague asked me to put > together a CD of > Roxy/Ferry tunes for her younger sister who was going away to > university. I asked her which songs her sister already knew, and the > reply was > 'Virginia Plain'. That was enough for me to go on. I didn't > make it too > obscure, stuck mainly to Roxy/Ferry singles, mostly 1970s, > with a handful of > album tracks and even slipped in To Make You Feel My > Love, which I figured > she'd know thanks to the Adele version. > > But if I were to choose just one > (non-compilation) album to recommend, > it would have to be For Your Pleasure. > Simon > > On 26 July 2011 18:23, Amry K wrote: >> If you were > advising someone at a young age who had never heard of > BF. & >> Roxy. what > would you tell them to listen to? ---ATGB when it came > out >> I thought it > was Ferry trying to grab the Senior crowd. Too mellow for >> someone to get > into real good. Maybe that was his goal to get newbies > of >> the older > generation. At his age could be his agenda. Got to appeal to >> all somehow to > stay selling records. I do love Olympia as IMO it does >> reach out to several > masses. After all look at Adele. appeals to all > in >> a crazy sort of way. > ---Lets not be to judgemental on Ferry. We love > his >> works of yesterdays. > Just be glad he still is around & got enough > going >> to draw for > tours.---Eventually some day that voice will not be up to >> par but until then > enjoy the hell out of what he can give us now. >> >> Alway's , Marlana >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________________ > > __ >> > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > _________________________________________________________________________ > > __ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > _________________________________________________________________________ > __ > To > unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > __ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:50:08 +0100 From: Simon Galloway Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Agreed, 'I Thought' is by far and away the best thing on there. And it's pure Eno. Possibly even taking it's cue from one of Eno's old songs... http://grooveshark.com/s/The+River/2DT5uD?src=5 Simon On 27 July 2011 16:26, wrote: > I listened to Frantic again quite recently on a long distance train journey. > It was the first time I'd heard it since it came out and a lot of it fell flat > for me - quite possibly because I played Alphaville (the album not the track) > directly before it. Alphaville is full of energy and guts and spits venom > (Love War). > However, I Thought stood out head and shoulders above anything else, such a > beautiful, charming little ditty, textural, simple and gorgeous. > > > J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:59:29 -0400 (EDT) From: kwil632057@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Roxy/Ferry special edition issues? I've been listening to the excellent reissues of Suede's albums recently. Each album comes in a 3 disc set. The first disc includes the album and demos, the second b sides (Suede were at their peak during the cd single heyday, resulting in more b sides than tracks on the albums in some cases) and rarities. The third disc is a DVD of live performances, videos and a recently recorded interview with the band about the making of that album. It's all very frank, with mistakes acknowledged and triumphs celebrated. The booklet for each reissue is fantastic with rare, unseen art and a personal introduction from Brett Anderson (the lead singer) about the album including an alternative playlist showing how he'd sequence the album now (lots of the b sides end up as album tracks and some album tracks are dropped). It's a great set of reissues and I can't help but wonder what the Roxy or even Ferry albums would be like given the same treatment? I shall dream on... J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:28:55 +0100 From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Yes - makes you wonder why more of those things don't happen On 27 Jul 2011, at 16:24, Simon Galloway wrote: > A very generous gift from Eno. Very gracious of him to share the > wriring credits with Bryan. > > :) > > Simon > > On 27 July 2011 15:56, Richard Evans wrote: >> I Thought - best Ferry solo track since Avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:30:53 -0400 From: jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Oh yes! You've now made me want to hear Johnny Cash sing I Thought (if he was alive!). - -----Original Message----- From: Simon Galloway To: Avalon Sent: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:50 Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. Agreed, 'I Thought' is by far and away the best thing on there. And it's pure Eno. Possibly even taking it's cue from one of Eno's old songs... http://grooveshark.com/s/The+River/2DT5uD?src=5 Simon On 27 July 2011 16:26, wrote: > I listened to Frantic again quite recently on a long distance train journey. > It was the first time I'd heard it since it came out and a lot of it fell flat > for me - quite possibly because I played Alphaville (the album not the track) > directly before it. Alphaville is full of energy and guts and spits venom > (Love War). > However, I Thought stood out head and shoulders above anything else, such a > beautiful, charming little ditty, textural, simple and gorgeous. > > > J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:52:08 +0000 From: Andrew Shearer Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy/Ferry special edition issues? well I too thought that would be unlikely Jonathan but I remember seeing this a while back: http://www.vivaroxymusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=623 (John's post on Sat June 18th) Andrew www.andrewshearer.com Twitter & Facebook: @shearermusic > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: [AVALON] Roxy/Ferry special edition issues? > From: kwil632057@aol.com > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:59:29 -0400 > > I've been listening to the excellent reissues of Suede's albums > recently. Each album comes in a 3 disc set. > The first disc includes the album and demos, the second b sides (Suede > were at their peak during the cd single heyday, resulting in more b > sides than tracks on the albums in some cases) and rarities. The third > disc is a DVD of live performances, videos and a recently recorded > interview with the band about the making of that album. It's all very > frank, with mistakes acknowledged and triumphs celebrated. > > The booklet for each reissue is fantastic with rare, unseen art and a > personal introduction from Brett Anderson (the lead singer) about the > album including an alternative playlist showing how he'd sequence the > album now (lots of the b sides end up as album tracks and some album > tracks are dropped). > > > It's a great set of reissues and I can't help but wonder what the Roxy > or even Ferry albums would be like given the same treatment? > > I shall dream on... > > J > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Victor Hastings Subject: Re: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? > I think Rhett is/was more about sonic exploration and texture rather > than 'smooth'. He was closely involved with Eno during the 70s, > helping Eno faciliatate and realise his ideas during that time, > techniques which Davies quite clearly applied to the albums he made > with Roxy and Ferry in the 80s. To compare him to Colin Good I feel is > rather harsh, and a vast undermining of the contribution he's made to > music (in terms of engineering and production) not just with Roxy, > Ferry and Eno, but with the many other artists he's worked with over > the years. Well, I know very little of Rhett Davies' work with other musicians (other than Eno), so I can't criticize or compliment him in that regard. And in fairness to him, he was probably better suited to Ferry's musical approach from 1979 onward than anyone else I could think of. It's not as though he was leading Ferry into the middle of the road. But the Chris Thomas-produced albums had that wonderful raucous edge that the Davies efforts rarely featured. Plus, Thomas managed to do plenty of texturing with Roxy. His work sounds like layer after layer of freshly killed meat, while Davies' layers sound more like petits-fours in comparison. And I didn't intend the Davies-Good comparison to be an insult, exactly. Both men are technically proficient at what they do. In fact, they both are great fits for late-career Ferry. But I will trade Davies and Good for Thomas and Eno/Jobson any day of the week. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:41:47 +0100 From: "Mark Longhorn" Subject: RE: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? Such a good question that I have to reply, albeit late- such are the pressures of agency life! Would I prefer that Manifesto, Flesh & blood and Avalon had not been released? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... On balance, no. Simply because if they had not happened, RM might be long since dead! However, let's take a look at why those albums are so very different in my mind from the first 5. Manifesto- when it was released I was overjoyed that RM had got back together and actually believed this to be a better album than Siren, which I sold within 6 months of buying it (what a mistake!). The title track promises much and its confident lyrics lull you into believing a lot more is to come. Trash is a good follow on - despite dubious sentiments, the track appeals because it is so odd, so Roxy- rock oboe at its best. But we also get the dreadful Dance Away (so cringeworthy!) and Cry Cry Cry. The album is lifted by the wonderfully circumspect Spin me round and even the catchy Ain't that so ( the only time RM sounded anything like my other fav band- Can- check out the bizarre middle section), but tracks like My little girl just look like fillers. In summary, it wasn't better than Siren and Eddie had left! Siren, in retrospect was a great album. Flesh & Blood: you know you're in trouble when there's a cover on an album (BF albums excepted), and when there's two, well......... The problem is that F&B has a few really good tracks: Over you, and I really like Running Wild and, although it's clearly a US directed BF solo single, Oh yeah (which is actually a great song). This album has the really dreadful 8 miles high (what was he thinking?) and the truly embarrassing My only love. While this is easily the weakest RM album, it does, nevertheless, have a few decent tracks and I actually prefer it to Avalon because of this. And so to Avalon, the namesake of this site. I accept that universally it is a well-produced product and therefore ' better ' than the previous offering. Please don't tell me to love it though! The slick over production irritates me from the beginning. Even More than this, perhaps the best song on the album, irritates me because I keep remembering Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond. It just does, ok? Avalon's not for me, but I'm prepared to agree that it had to happen. (Even the cover disappointed). I don't even know most of the names of the Avalon tracks, it is so rarely on my player. However, and it's a big however, without these 3 albums, lots of things wouldn't have happened and I think that they've helped to keep RM alive over the last 2 decades and for that I'm grateful. I am 51 and I will continue to love the early 70s for the sheer excitement I remember of trying to understand the strange Geordie voice I heard back in 1972 with all those strange instruments. It's what inspired me to learn to play oboe sax and piano and build a synth. For that I will be forever grateful. However, to quote Peter Gabriel, I know what I like and I like what I know.... Mactheaxe (aka Bridget Size) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of JohnOBrien001@aol.com Sent: 26 July 2011 14:33 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? I have read over the years many criticisms of the last 3 Roxy Music albums. There is no doubt that these albums have a different feel and direction from the first 4-5 albums. My favourite Roxy tracks are mainly from the early albums too but still enjoy a lot of the stuff on the later albums and I admire the band for trying out new things. There is strong stuff as well as weaker stuff on all periods of Roxy/Ferry 1972-2010 so far and I feel a line is drawn somewhere by fans who think one period is all great and the rest is worthless, or sometimes it's a 'I have been a fan since '72 so my opinion is more valid' attitude. It is sometimes dissed if a fan's entry point to Roxy/Ferry was at the highly commercial period 79-85 as if that was too easy and doesn't make you a 'real' fan (I hate that expression it is so meaningless) I sometimes feel that the later albums are judged not on what they are but more on what they are not and what is they are not the first few albums. Anyone who likes the first period 72-75 the best and registered on here some 36 years later must have some interest in the other 90% (in terms of time) of the bands solo and collective output. What I think would be interesting from fans who don't like the later period is what would/should this particular group of musicians have done instead of Manifesto/Flesh + Blood/Avalon to have kept the dissenters happy? I asked a similar question on the Viva forum a while back and all I got back was what the differences of each period were and not what else they should have done instead. What could they have done to keep it interesting without repeating themselves? Ferry has around 60 originals or co-writes recorded as his solo work. Throw in a few Manzanera and Mackay potential co-writes of material they used on their solo albums and we would have had another 8 Roxy albums. What should Phil, Andy, Paul, Jobson & Eno have done with this material to have made it interesting and not be For Your Pleasure XVI J.O'B. In a message dated 26/07/2011 13:38:12 GMT Daylight Time, mark@olivetreepl.plus.com writes: Do I hear the cry of a 72-75 purist? Terry 'O' ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: deaglerr@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. jocelynfiske writes: Alphaville is full of energy and guts and spits venom (Love War). I quite agree!If Mr Ferry had only put out alphaville (the bootleg) instead of turning it to the wall.... Even in their "unfinished" state they usually seem far superior, to these humble ears, than the overglossed final versions released later. Unfortunately we may never see Love War officially released. I think it mirrors too closely the Ferry home front vibe of the time. + the bridge got recycled for Fool For Love. In reviews over the years I have seen a couple of phrases which unfortunately seem to be true. Lapidary perfection: Lapidary meaning a polished stone. COLD HARD BUT PERFECT. BF sure seems to get lost in the Craft and can't find his way out. I also read a review that said BF was "the king of elevator smooch music" I interpret that to mean sexy muzak. He certainly veers close to that on occasion. I seem to be on another planet from all y'all, when it comes to I Thought. Trite & throwaway lyrics, boring music, IMYHO. So nice that Eno could breeze in to the studio for a couple of hours to "help" Bryan. Regards, R, Deagle PS: Who's showing for the DC gig this fall. I know there wil be other travelers. Group booking? Already running into No Room At The Inn stuff on good hotel I know. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: deaglerr@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] test Wonky AOL, no doubt ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: deaglerr@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] test test - -----Original Message----- From: Mark Longhorn To: avalon Sent: Wed, Jul 27, 2011 2:04 pm Subject: RE: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? Such a good question that I have to reply, albeit late- such are the pressures of agency life! Would I prefer that Manifesto, Flesh & blood and Avalon had not been released? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... On balance, no. Simply because if they had not happened, RM might be long since dead! However, let's take a look at why those albums are so very different in my mind from the first 5. Manifesto- when it was released I was overjoyed that RM had got back together and actually believed this to be a better album than Siren, which I sold within 6 months of buying it (what a mistake!). The title track promises much and its confident lyrics lull you into believing a lot more is to come. Trash is a good follow on - despite dubious sentiments, the track appeals because it is so odd, so Roxy- rock oboe at its best. But we also get the dreadful Dance Away (so cringeworthy!) and Cry Cry Cry. The album is lifted by the wonderfully circumspect Spin me round and even the catchy Ain't that so ( the only time RM sounded anything like my other fav band- Can- check out the bizarre middle section), but tracks like My little girl just look like fillers. In summary, it wasn't better than Siren and Eddie had left! Siren, in retrospect was a great album. Flesh & Blood: you know you're in trouble when there's a cover on an album (BF albums excepted), and when there's two, well......... The problem is that F&B has a few really good tracks: Over you, and I really like Running Wild and, although it's clearly a US directed BF solo single, Oh yeah (which is actually a great song). This album has the really dreadful 8 miles high (what was he thinking?) and the truly embarrassing My only love. While this is easily the weakest RM album, it does, nevertheless, have a few decent tracks and I actually prefer it to Avalon because of this. And so to Avalon, the namesake of this site. I accept that universally it is a well-produced product and therefore ' better ' than the previous offering. Please don't tell me to love it though! The slick over production irritates me from the beginning. Even More than this, perhaps the best song on the album, irritates me because I keep remembering Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond. It just does, ok? Avalon's not for me, but I'm prepared to agree that it had to happen. (Even the cover disappointed). I don't even know most of the names of the Avalon tracks, it is so rarely on my player. However, and it's a big however, without these 3 albums, lots of things wouldn't have happened and I think that they've helped to keep RM alive over the last 2 decades and for that I'm grateful. I am 51 and I will continue to love the early 70s for the sheer excitement I remember of trying to understand the strange Geordie voice I heard back in 1972 with all those strange instruments. It's what inspired me to learn to play oboe sax and piano and build a synth. For that I will be forever grateful. However, to quote Peter Gabriel, I know what I like and I like what I know.... Mactheaxe (aka Bridget Size) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of JohnOBrien001@aol.com Sent: 26 July 2011 14:33 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? I have read over the years many criticisms of the last 3 Roxy Music albums. There is no doubt that these albums have a different feel and direction from the first 4-5 albums. My favourite Roxy tracks are mainly from the early albums too but still enjoy a lot of the stuff on the later albums and I admire the band for trying out new things. There is strong stuff as well as weaker stuff on all periods of Roxy/Ferry 1972-2010 so far and I feel a line is drawn somewhere by fans who think one period is all great and the rest is worthless, or sometimes it's a 'I have been a fan since '72 so my opinion is more valid' attitude. It is sometimes dissed if a fan's entry point to Roxy/Ferry was at the highly commercial period 79-85 as if that was too easy and doesn't make you a 'real' fan (I hate that expression it is so meaningless) I sometimes feel that the later albums are judged not on what they are but more on what they are not and what is they are not the first few albums. Anyone who likes the first period 72-75 the best and registered on here some 36 years later must have some interest in the other 90% (in terms of time) of the bands solo and collective output. What I think would be interesting from fans who don't like the later period is what would/should this particular group of musicians have done instead of Manifesto/Flesh + Blood/Avalon to have kept the dissenters happy? I asked a similar question on the Viva forum a while back and all I got back was what the differences of each period were and not what else they should have done instead. What could they have done to keep it interesting without repeating themselves? Ferry has around 60 originals or co-writes recorded as his solo work. Throw in a few Manzanera and Mackay potential co-writes of material they used on their solo albums and we would have had another 8 Roxy albums. What should Phil, Andy, Paul, Jobson & Eno have done with this material to have made it interesting and not be For Your Pleasure XVI J.O'B. In a message dated 26/07/2011 13:38:12 GMT Daylight Time, mark@olivetreepl.plus.com writes: Do I hear the cry of a 72-75 purist? Terry 'O' ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:21:28 +0100 From: Simon Galloway Subject: [AVALON] Brian vs. Bryan - The Mixtape Listen here - http://8tracks.com/simongmusic/brian-vs-bryan ROUND 1 Brian Eno/David Byrne - Regiment (1981) The sound and groove found its way onto Avalon (the album). Eno invents sampling. Roxy Music - The Space Between (1982) ...but at least Bryan bothered to pen some lyrics. ROUND 2 Brian Eno/John Cale - The River (1990) Eno uses some Omnichord presets and writes a rather lovely song... Bryan Ferry - I Thought (2002) ...and many years later, recycles it and gives it to Bryan, resulting in one of the best solo Ferry tracks ever! But that cheeky scamp Eno had already reused the idea for U2's Johnny Cash collaboration in 1993. Tut tut. INTERMISSION Andy Mackay - Time Regained A little breather from Andy, bringing some balance to the proceedings... But wait! It's an Eno collaboration! Ouch! ROUND 3 Brian Eno - The Lion Sleeps Tonight (1975) Eno's takes a leaf from Ferry's book and does a cover version, taking on a rock 'n' roll/yodelling classic. Irony optional. One of only a few cover versions released by the domed one. Bryan Ferry - Don't Ever Change (1973) Ferry takes on a classic rock 'n' roll ballad, and in the process finds the comfort blanket of his career. How very snug! ROUND 4... The gloves are off!!! Brian Eno - Dead Finks Don't Talk (1973) Ferry-baiting put downs a-plenty. And Eno says he didn't realise what it was about when he wrote it. Yeah right! Roxy Music - Casanova (1974) Bryan pokes Brian in the eye! Take that! <><><><><><> Who's your winner? :) Simon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:39:07 +0100 From: Simon Galloway Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: spoiler & etc. This is as close as you'll get (yes, Eno has recycled The River more than once)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjT3eYVcvvs On 27 July 2011 17:30, wrote: > Oh yes! You've now made me want to hear Johnny Cash sing I Thought (if he > was alive!). ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:41:28 +0100 From: Simon Galloway Subject: Re: [AVALON] 72-75 What Else Then? I'd trade Colin Good for Gary Tibbs. Right now! On 27 July 2011 18:10, Victor Hastings wrote: >> I think Rhett is/was more about sonic exploration and texture rather > > But I will trade Davies and Good for Thomas and Eno/Jobson any day of the week. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 03:35:31 -0400 (EDT) From: kwil632057@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] East side/West side Ok - somehow I've got it into my silly head that the two sides of Manifesto are divided up to appeal to a European audience (East Side) and a US demographic (West Side). Am I utterly wrong or has anybody else read this? J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V15 #153 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest