From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V15 #1003 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Sunday, November 29 2015 Volume 15 : Number 1003 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? [Chris Turner ] RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? ["Terry" ] RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? ["Thomas Wallace" ] RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? ["Thomas Wallace" ] Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? [Chris Turner ] Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? [Chris Turner ] RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? [Victor Hastings ] Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? [Chris Turner ] RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? ["Thomas Wallace" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? The age thing doesn't wash. Lots of artists have achieved success in their relative dotage. Bowie, Status Quo, Rod Stewart, Dylan, Springsteen, Pink Floyd and Gilmour last month have all had recent number 1 albums. There's Dad Rock all over the charts. BF scarcely makes the Top 50. They're all 70 odd. What's the difference?B It's nice that some people liked Olympia and Avonmore, but they are in the minority. Fact is hardly anyone bought either of them; digital theft or otherwise. BF can't reach his own audience any more, let alone establish a new one. Ferry said Boys and Girls was his meisterwerk, by the way. Unlike recent efforts, it has some songs on it. Which tracks on B&G have 10 guitarists on them?B Are you kidding about the remixes? There are more remixes on Avonmore than he made in the first thirty years of his career put together. They are at best padding. All those artists I mentioned earlier don't pack their products with them. They aren't trying to be 25 any more. They make albums about who they are now, not who they used to be. BF even puts a 40 year old picture of himself on the sleeve! It is down to personal taste as you say. And clearly the public no longer has a taste for The Commander's work. And there's no pleasure in saying that for me. Chris From: Thomas Wallace To: 'Chris Turner' ; 'Avalon Avalon' Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2015, 15:09 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Chris, I can't say I'm a fan of the last few Ferry albums, but to proclaim Boys and Girls as a meisterwerk is totally over the top, and to complain about other albums because of the overdubs when you look at the over production on Boys and Girls is really a bit much. As for appearing on "Lose Women" he did it because the age of his fan base is representative of the women who watch that show, is that anymore cringe worthy than appearing on the Twiggy show in '74? In the end what do you expect from a guy of 70 whose best work was in the early/mid 70's with Roxy Music. Ferry's solo career has always paled against the work he did with Roxy, at the end of the day don't buy it if you don't like it. Part of the overall problem in recent years is the fact that albums don't make the money they used to because of folk making digital copies of the Net, this means that he seems to have been on a never ending spiral of tours to raise finance and it has all but wrecked what was left of his voice, a reason I haven't gone to see him in years. I would expect 2016 to be a bumper year for releases, but the sad fact is that time stands still for no man and Ferry is never going to be the force he was 40 years ago, but at least he's still going. With reference to the remixes, is it really different from the old 12" mixes we used to get in the 80's/90's? It's just part of the way the business works these days to try and reach a bigger audience. Personally I think about 90% of them are crap, but somebody else might love them and that applies to most music we hear, it's all down to personal taste. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:02:28 -0000 From: "Terry" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? "but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now" Soldier Of Fortune Avonmore One Night Stand Tender Is The Night (a Ferry Classic for me) There are more, for me it's the covers that are failing him now. Olympia & Avonmore are both good albums. The Jazz Age tour 3 or so years ago was a complete triumph, best in decades. Sometime around 1999 Bryan Ferry was talking of releasing a career retrospective box set. Probably because he thought at the time his career was behind him. But, just like every self-employed person he's picked himself up, gone on to do great tours, albums and give his fans a great time. I do believe he's an expensive hobby to have, the tickets are very pricey for the gigs next year and I've gone for row M at the Palladium as the front rows were silly money. My choice and I'm not complaining. He's never going to make another FYP, never has. But he has been a constant in my like for 43 years, I've enjoyed some of the best concerts of my life in his and probably most of the people on this list (if anyone's still reading it) company. I won't be buying the Avonmore Special Edition, ridiculous pricing, but my choice and I won't miss it. Finally I am a Fan, not a Fanatic. Remember 2000/1 this page was alive with excited people swapping stories, lists, song of the day/week? Great times. What great things Bryan Ferry has gone on to do since then. Us however?? Terry O - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Chris Turner Sent: 28 November 2015 01:28 To: Andrew Shearer ; avalon avalon Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Starting yet another project when you haven't delivered the 10 you have already announced/leaked just shows how shambolic things are now.B Punting a B#100 version of an album he couldn't sell for B#10 on release simply emphasises this. BF was once the guy who was completely attuned what his audience wanted. Now his flunkies validate every terrible idea he comes up with. No one challenges him or curbs his excesses in the way say Puxley used to. Maybe taxi drivers are the only ordinary people he meets now? He is still a viable live artist for two reasons. One, that he has one of the best back catalogues in the business, and two, because even if croaks his way through his set supported by 15 backing vocalists, when he stands on that stage he is still Bryan Ferry, and that still means something. At least to me it does. I will always think he is great, but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now. ChrisB From: Andrew Shearer To: avalon avalon Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2015, 19:25 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? I can't see it happening before Christmas -B it kind of conflicts with BF's deluxe Avonmore release this week. However I'm not giving up totally on it ever appearing. I saw on Facebook yesterday a taxi driver had given BF a lift and BF said they were currently mixing the tapes of the '74 Albert Hall concerts. Which gives one hope (I think!) :). Andrew ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon - --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 00:43:37 -0000 From: "Thomas Wallace" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Chris Turner Sent: 28 November 2015 22:55 To: Thomas Wallace; 'Avalon Avalon' Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? "The age thing doesn't wash. Lots of artists have achieved success in their relative dotage. Bowie, Status Quo, Rod Stewart, Dylan, Springsteen, Pink Floyd and Gilmour last month have all had recent number 1 albums. There's Dad Rock all over the charts. BF scarcely makes the Top 50. They're all 70 odd. What's the difference?" The obvious difference is that they all had bigger sales than Ferry back in the day, why would he suddenly be able to compete with them now. Btw, the Gilmour album may have sold well but I didn't think it cut the mustard so it's not in my collection. Doesn't mean to say that I'll ramble on about how poor it was in comparison to stuff he did in the past. "Ferry said Boys and Girls was his meisterwerk, by the way. Unlike recent efforts, it has some songs on it." Well again you might think it had better songs on it, but that is your opinion. "Which tracks on B&G have 10 guitarists on them?" There may not have been 10 guitarists, but the solos were mostly stitched together from work done by a number of players and multiple takes, so it all balances out. In my opinion B&G had too much production and not enough substance. If Ferry or anybody else disagrees that's up to them. "Are you kidding about the remixes? There are more remixes on Avonmore than he made in the first thirty years of his career put together. They are at best padding. All those artists I mentioned earlier don't pack their products with them. They aren't trying to be 25 any more. They make albums about who they are now, not who they used to be. BF even puts a 40 year old picture of himself on the sleeve! It is down to personal taste as you say. And clearly the public no longer has a taste for The Commander's work. And there's no pleasure in saying that for me. Chris" As I posted before if you don't like it don't buy it. I don't like the remixes so I don't buy them, I didn't like the last two albums so I didn't buy those either. At the end of the day Ferry does what Ferry wants to do as is his right, so who are we to get all bitter about it if it doesn't suit us. Tom. - --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 05:11:19 -0500 From: kwil Subject: Re: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Brilliantly put. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Saturday, 28 November 2015, Terry wrote: "but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now" Soldier Of Fortune Avonmore One Night Stand Tender Is The Night (a Ferry Classic for me) There are more, for me it's the covers that are failing him now. Olympia & Avonmore are both good albums. The Jazz Age tour 3 or so years ago was a complete triumph, best in decades. Sometime around 1999 Bryan Ferry was talking of releasing a career retrospective box set. Probably because he thought at the time his career was behind him. But, just like every self-employed person he's picked himself up, gone on to do great tours, albums and give his fans a great time. I do believe he's an expensive hobby to have, the tickets are very pricey for the gigs next year and I've gone for row M at the Palladium as the front rows were silly money. My choice and I'm not complaining. He's never going to make another FYP, never has. But he has been a constant in my like for 43 years, I've enjoyed some of the best concerts of my life in his and probably most of the people on this list (if anyone's still reading it) company. I won't be buying the Avonmore Special Edition, ridiculous pricing, but my choice and I won't miss it. Finally I am a Fan, not a Fanatic. Remember 2000/1 this page was alive with excited people swapping stories, lists, song of the day/week? Great times. What great things Bryan Ferry has gone on to do since then. Us however?? Terry O - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Chris Turner Sent: 28 November 2015 01:28 To: Andrew Shearer ; avalon avalon Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Starting yet another project when you haven't delivered the 10 you have already announced/leaked just shows how shambolic things are now.B Punting a B#100 version of an album he couldn't sell for B#10 on release simply emphasises this. BF was once the guy who was completely attuned what his audience wanted. Now his flunkies validate every terrible idea he comes up with. No one challenges him or curbs his excesses in the way say Puxley used to. Maybe taxi drivers are the only ordinary people he meets now? He is still a viable live artist for two reasons. One, that he has one of the best back catalogues in the business, and two, because even if croaks his way through his set supported by 15 backing vocalists, when he stands on that stage he is still Bryan Ferry, and that still means something. At least to me it does. I will always think he is great, but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now. ChrisB From: Andrew Shearer To: avalon avalon Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2015, 19:25 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? I can't see it happening before Christmas -B it kind of conflicts with BF's deluxe Avonmore release this week. However I'm not giving up totally on it ever appearing. I saw on Facebook yesterday a taxi driver had given BF a lift and BF said they were currently mixing the tapes of the '74 Albert Hall concerts. Which gives one hope (I think!) :). Andrew ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:09:04 -0000 From: "Thomas Wallace" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? "Olympia and Avonmore can't stand up on their own against anything he has recorded before. They had to be hidden behind a mass of remixes, special editions, celebrity players, vinyl pressings, weird promo videos, model artwork, multi track excess and treacly production B to obfuscate the fact that they couldn't produce half an album of memorable songs between them. With the law of diminishing returns that has applied since he produced Boys and Girls, his meisterwerk and the boilerplate for the whole of his latter career, we have reached the bottom of the barrel. The sight of a bewildered Commander plugging this stuff on 'Loose Women' haunts me. It made him look mortal to me for the first time. How on earth did it come to this? Chris" Chris, I can't say I'm a fan of the last few Ferry albums, but to proclaim Boys and Girls as a meisterwerk is totally over the top, and to complain about other albums because of the overdubs when you look at the over production on Boys and Girls is really a bit much. As for appearing on "Lose Women" he did it because the age of his fan base is representative of the women who watch that show, is that anymore cringe worthy than appearing on the Twiggy show in '74? In the end what do you expect from a guy of 70 whose best work was in the early/mid 70's with Roxy Music. Ferry's solo career has always paled against the work he did with Roxy, at the end of the day don't buy it if you don't like it. Part of the overall problem in recent years is the fact that albums don't make the money they used to because of folk making digital copies of the Net, this means that he seems to have been on a never ending spiral of tours to raise finance and it has all but wrecked what was left of his voice, a reason I haven't gone to see him in years. I would expect 2016 to be a bumper year for releases, but the sad fact is that time stands still for no man and Ferry is never going to be the force he was 40 years ago, but at least he's still going. With reference to the remixes, is it really different from the old 12" mixes we used to get in the 80's/90's? It's just part of the way the business works these days to try and reach a bigger audience. Personally I think about 90% of them are crap, but somebody else might love them and that applies to most music we hear, it's all down to personal taste. - --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:29:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Turner Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? From: John O'Brien To: "avalon@smoe.org" Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2015, 5:22 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? <<< Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? From: Thomas Wallace To: 'Chris Turner' ; 'Avalon Avalon' Sent: Sunday, 29 November 2015, 0:43 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? >>>The obvious difference is that they all had bigger sales than Ferry back inB the day, why would he suddenly be able to compete with them now.B By making a good album maybe? Something that people might want to listen to and buy? Something that might sell more than 10K copies? Anyway, what has past achievement got to do with quality? And why have all those bands enjoyed fan loyalty (or gained a new audience) and not The Commander? >>>Btw, theB Gilmour album may have sold well but I didn't think it cut the mustard soB it's not in my collection.B I'm sure he's devastated to know that he's failed to meet the only criterion of excellence that really matters. I bet he's lying in his solid gold bath wondering where it all went wrong. >>>Doesn't mean to say that I'll ramble on about howB poor it was in comparison to stuff he did in the past.B New policy? You need to start reading your own posts. Not only do you ramble on but you don't appear to have liked anything since Country Life. >>>>There may not have been 10 guitarists, but the solos were mostly stitched together from work done by a number of players and multiple takes, so it allB balances out. That's how all studio albums are made. No-one is playing perfectly first time, every time. But B & G is positively sparse compared to Avonmouth or Cravendale or whatever it's called. I guess recently he's been working on the principle that if less is more, think how much better more would be. >>>>who are we to get all bitter about it if it doesn't suitB us.B I feel something far worse than bitterness, Tom. Disappointment. The guy who has always delivered has fired four blanks in a row. For more than ten years I have staunchly believed that he had oneB lastB great album left in him. I don't believe that any more. For me, creatively, he's done. Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 01:27:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Turner Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Starting yet another project when you haven't delivered the 10 you have already announced/leaked just shows how shambolic things are now.B Punting a B#100 version of an album he couldn't sell for B#10 on release simply emphasises this. BF was once the guy who was completely attuned what his audience wanted. Now his flunkies validate every terrible idea he comes up with. No one challenges him or curbs his excesses in the way say Puxley used to. Maybe taxi drivers are the only ordinary people he meets now? He is still a viable live artist for two reasons. One, that he has one of the best back catalogues in the business, and two, because even if croaks his way through his set supported by 15 backing vocalists, when he stands on that stage he is still Bryan Ferry, and that still means something. At least to me it does. I will always think he is great, but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now. ChrisB From: Andrew Shearer To: avalon avalon Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2015, 19:25 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? I can't see it happening before Christmas -B it kind of conflicts with BF's deluxe Avonmore release this week. However I'm not giving up totally on it ever appearing. I saw on Facebook yesterday a taxi driver had given BF a lift and BF said they were currently mixing the tapes of the '74 Albert Hall concerts. Which gives one hope (I think!) :). Andrew ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:43:35 -0600 From: Victor Hastings Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? I guess I'm lucky -- I get a lot of pleasure from listening to Olympia, The Jazz Age and Avonmore, and I'll pay to attend as many future shows as I can afford, no matter how many backing vocalists Bryan needs to compensate for being 70+. The audiophile repackagings don't move my needle a bit any more. If I were commanding the Commander, I'd have him move the 1974 RAH project to the top of the list. I can't wait to hear it. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:53:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Turner Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? Olympia and Avonmore can't stand up on their own against anything he has recorded before. They had to be hidden behind a mass of remixes, special editions, celebrity players, vinyl pressings, weird promo videos, model artwork, multi track excess and treacly production B to obfuscate the fact that they couldn't produce half an album of memorable songs between them. With the law of diminishing returns that has applied since he produced Boys and Girls, his meisterwerk and the boilerplate for the whole of his latter career, we have reached the bottom of the barrel. The sight of a bewildered Commander plugging this stuff on 'Loose Women' haunts me. It made him look mortal to me for the first time. How on earth did it come to this? Chris From: Terry To: 'Chris Turner' ; 'John O'Brien' Cc: avalon@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2015, 10:02 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? "but he hasn't recorded anything that could be said to have added to his reputation for almost 15 years now" Soldier Of Fortune Avonmore One Night Stand Tender Is The Night (a Ferry Classic for me) There are more, for me it's the covers that are failing him now. Olympia & Avonmore are both good albums. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 05:10:02 -0000 From: "Thomas Wallace" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? From: Chris Turner [mailto:roxyrama@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 29 November 2015 03:03 To: Thomas Wallace; 'Avalon Avalon' Subject: Re: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? From: Thomas Wallace To: 'Chris Turner' ; 'Avalon Avalon' Sent: Sunday, 29 November 2015, 0:43 Subject: RE: [AVALON] Christmas cheer? I feel something far worse than bitterness, Tom. Disappointment. The guy who has always delivered has fired four blanks in a row. For more than ten years I have staunchly believed that he had one last great album left in him. I don't believe that any more. For me, creatively, he's done. Chris So youbve got it wrong, boo freekinb whoo get over it lifebs too short. Ibm sure he didnbt do it just to get at you. Btw, Ferry never always delivered listen to side two of Manifesto therebs some real stiffs on there. Even the Bride wasnbt perfect though it was probably his most interesting solo album. Ibve never seen his solo career as being on the same level as Roxy, so yes to me the creative heights were never fully reached after Country Life so what, there were some good albums after b74 and I do feel sad that he probably never fully reached his potential. Paul McCartney hasnbt done an album I fully liked since Venus and Mars and Ibve been listening to him since b62, but I donbt go on a hissy fit about it. If there are folk out there who genuinely like what Ferry has done over the last 15 years great Ibm glad, if folk are using the remixes in clubs even better it might just make somebody go and by a copy of one of the early Roxy albums and hopefully theybll experience some of the buzz I got when I first heard them. You could say Ibve gone one way in my musical tastes and Ferrybs later material has fitted in less and less with that, too bad. There are plenty of other artists over the years who I feel the same way about. Am I disappointed, not really as we get older our tastes change and as the artists get older their inspiration and styles change. If the worst comes to the worst I can always pick up a guitar or switch on a keyboard and doodle about for myself, what I wonbt do is get bitter about it. Tom. - --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V15 #1003 ****************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest