From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V12 #383 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, April 15 2008 Volume 12 : Number 383 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions [Chris Turner Subject: Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions I think John may have had an extra glass of wine with lunch on Friday, given his intemperate attack. Did he really detail his unreleased recordings and then accuse me of selfishness by not sharing? Feel free to help everyone out if you feel that strongly. Incidentally, I just have one copy. I can't imagine why you think otherwise. I haven't offered this for copying because it is copyrighted studio material, not some hissy bootleg that noone cares about. There are laws in the UK, and most other places that preclude that, while our list administrator has also repeatedly asked us not to do that in here. If Ferry wanted it released, I'm sure that he would have done so, or will do in the future. I just thought people here would like to know about it. We are, or at least were, a discussion group. In future, I'll keep it to myself. Actually I think the material is unremarkable. YGTMH is the best of it, although it bears no relation to Sinatra to my ears. All four songs are in the Billie Holiday style of arrangement, and were indeed all released by her. Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:25 -0400 From: johnobrien001@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions I made no attack and just quoted some facts. There is no wine induced or otherwise inconsistency in anything I have posted on this topic.?I based the fact you have two copies because your initial post on 1st April stated you had a copy a few months ago: > I've found myself listening to ATGB a bit recently, because a few months ago I purchased, perfectly legitimately, a CD called '1930s Songs' The next day you posted a link to a copy you bought on EBAY the previous week, one and one is two. It seemed to me the EBAY copy was there rightly or wrongly for the general public to buy, but you decided to remove that opportunity then tell everyone about what they could have got. The additional material I made reference to has?NEVER been made available to the public via EBAY or other therefore this material remains, as far as my association with it, must remain within the conditions I obtained the material. The big difference is that some material is obtained in confidence and some is available to the public. Material official or unofficial, released or unreleased is of a big interest to the fans and I am sure we all understand that.?I have no problem in general?with the material being out there and only certain specific recordings that are of any great worry to the artist due to contractual reasons.? Most fans who are avid enough to get this material are also avid enough to buy the official releases if they ever happen. I think my reasons for not offering this material are quite specific and different from something that could be obtained by anyone publicly. Any information I indulged was done with permission and is culled from a project I had been invited to?contribute to regarding unreleased material. The main point I make is that you had no reason to post information about the now gone availability of these recordings to the public if you where not prepared to respond positively to the expected requests. You had the material by your own admission for several months and chose to wait until you saw?it publicly?5 days or so?after it was too late for anyone?who may have had an interest in this to obtain it without breaking anyone's confidence.?I made my point clear about why I posted this information (with permission) and why I could not do any more than pass this information to the interested few here. This has been respected and I have had no requests off line for anymore than what I stated I could offer. I am sure a lot of information, recordings etc are given in confidence to many people form many artists and that it remains that way until it can be made for public consumption with permission. Once something is on EBAY or some other public source then there are no fingers pointed to anyone selling it or buying but only to those who had access to this material in the first place to leak it. To post the information about the availability to the public?on eBay after the opportunity had gone seemed a bit 'I am all right jack I have a copy' As far as my Sinatra comment, this is based on hearing Sinatra perform this song on a movie years ago and from memory the ATGB session version is closer to that than Ferry's '76 version. I agree that this material is not the best of these sessions, that is of course why it is not released. J.O'B. - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Turner To: Avalon Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:52 Subject: Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions I think John may have had an extra glass of wine with lunch on Friday, given his intemperate attack. Did he really detail his unreleased recordings and then accuse me of selfishness by not sharing? Feel free to help everyone out if you feel that strongly. Incidentally, I just have one copy. I can't imagine why you think otherwise. I haven't offered this for copying because it is copyrighted studio material, not some hissy bootleg that noone cares about. There are laws in the UK, and most other places that preclude that, while our list administrator has also repeatedly asked us not to do that in here. If Ferry wanted it released, I'm sure that he would have done so, or will do in the future. I just thought people here would like to know about it. We are, or at least were, a discussion group. In future, I'll keep it to myself. Actually I think the material is unremarkable. YGTMH is the best of it, although it bears no relation to Sinatra to my ears. All four songs are in the Billie Holiday style of arrangement, and were indeed all released by her. Chris ________________________________________________________________________ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Victor Hastings Subject: Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions I am sure Jim Lawn would be chiming in on this topic if he weren't already chained and bound somewhere deep inside the Fuehrerbunker.... - ----- Original Message ---- > From: "johnobrien001@aol.com" > To: avalon@smoe.org > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:08:25 AM > Subject: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions > > I made no attack and just quoted some facts. There is no wine induced or > otherwise inconsistency in anything I have posted on this topic.?I based the > fact you have two copies because your initial post on 1st April stated you had a > copy a few months ago: > > > > I've found myself listening to ATGB a bit recently, because a few months ago I > purchased, perfectly legitimately, a CD called '1930s Songs' > > > The next day you posted a link to a copy you bought on EBAY the previous week, > one and one is two. It seemed to me the EBAY copy was there rightly or wrongly > for the general public to buy, but you decided to remove that opportunity then > tell everyone about what they could have got. The additional material I made > reference to has?NEVER been made available to the public via EBAY or other > therefore this material remains, as far as my association with it, must remain > within the conditions I obtained the material. > > The big difference is that some material is obtained in confidence and some is > available to the public. Material official or unofficial, released or unreleased > is of a big interest to the fans and I am sure we all understand that.?I have no > problem in general?with the material being out there and only certain specific > recordings that are of any great worry to the artist due to contractual > reasons.? Most fans who are avid enough to get this material are also avid > enough to buy the official releases if they ever happen. I think my reasons for > not offering this material are quite specific and different from something that > could be obtained by anyone publicly. Any information I indulged was done with > permission and is culled from a project I had been invited to?contribute to > regarding unreleased material. > > The main point I make is that you had no reason to post information about the > now gone availability of these recordings to the public if you where not > prepared to respond positively to the expected requests. You had the material by > your own admission for several months and chose to wait until you saw?it > publicly?5 days or so?after it was too late for anyone?who may have had an > interest in this to obtain it without breaking anyone's confidence.?I made my > point clear about why I posted this information (with permission) and why I > could not do any more than pass this information to the interested few here. > This has been respected and I have had no requests off line for anymore than > what I stated I could offer. > > I am sure a lot of information, recordings etc are given in confidence to many > people form many artists and that it remains that way until it can be made for > public consumption with permission. Once something is on EBAY or some other > public source then there are no fingers pointed to anyone selling it or buying > but only to those who had access to this material in the first place to leak it. > To post the information about the availability to the public?on eBay after the > opportunity had gone seemed a bit 'I am all right jack I have a copy' > > As far as my Sinatra comment, this is based on hearing Sinatra perform this song > on a movie years ago and from memory the ATGB session version is closer to that > than Ferry's '76 version. I agree that this material is not the best of these > sessions, that is of course why it is not released. > > J.O'B. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Turner > To: Avalon > Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:52 > Subject: Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions > > > > > > I think John may have had an extra glass of wine with lunch on Friday, given his > > intemperate attack. Did he really detail his unreleased recordings and then > accuse me of selfishness by not sharing? Feel free to help everyone out if you > feel that strongly. Incidentally, I just have one copy. I can't imagine why you > think otherwise. > > I haven't offered this for copying because it is copyrighted studio material, > not some hissy bootleg that noone cares about. There are laws in the UK, and > most other places that preclude that, while our list administrator has also > repeatedly asked us not to do that in here. If Ferry wanted it released, I'm > sure that he would have done so, or will do in the future. I just thought people > > here would like to know about it. We are, or at least were, a discussion group. > In future, I'll keep it to myself. > > Actually I think the material is unremarkable. YGTMH is the best of it, although > > it bears no relation to Sinatra to my ears. All four songs are in the Billie > Holiday style of arrangement, and were indeed all released by her. > > Chris > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ > now. > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:15:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Turner Subject: Re: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions John, you are a breathtakingly arrogant man. It wouldn't matter if I had 1, 2, 10 or 50 copies of that CD. It wouldn't matter if I stuck them to a stovepipe hat and wore them to work every day like Noddy Holder; it still wouldn't have anything to do with you. Who do you think you are to tell me or any Avalonian what they can buy or what they can post? Did you think that flexing your puny pseudo-official muscles was going to make me tremble? The last guy I met who did that was Jim Lawn. As far as I'm concerned, you're simply Lawn with better PR. And don't come over all po-faced just because you've been anointed as the chosen one by Ferry. After all, there was a time you thought so little of his unreleased material you used it just to hit on girls: http://www.smoe.org/lists/avalon/v06.n022 (see second post) Chris - --- On Mon, 14/4/08, johnobrien001@aol.com wrote: > From: johnobrien001@aol.com > Subject: [AVALON] ferry uncovered - - ATGB Sessions > To: avalon@smoe.org > Date: Monday, 14 April, 2008, 2:08 PM > I made no attack and just quoted some facts. There is no ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V12 #383 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest