From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V12 #265 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Saturday, October 27 2007 Volume 12 : Number 265 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics ["Martin Stockman" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:13:38 +0100 From: "Martin Stockman" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics But Rob it is clearly that this exchange of views is heading towards an argument, and we all know how boring that is. Its also unhelpful to pose the question in that way. Everyone here knows that there's only been one entirely self-penned album in the last 20 years, the excellent Mamouna. Is that the answer you're looking for? I would argue that ATGB, Frantic and Dylanesque all have a handful of gems. In general artists struggle to create strong work in their later years, although there are of course exceptions. Ferry is his own fiercest critic, and he is prone to self-doubt. A pleasant characteristic in this Big Brother / faux celebrity age. We all know that he has a good many great songs left in him, especially as he is looking so fit and confident these days. Yet... There's almost an undercurrent of thought in these pages that Bryan is malevolently holding back the Roxy album to spite Andy and Phil. This is nonsense. He is only too aware that the Roxy legacy could be irretrievably damaged by anything other than an extremely strong "comeback" album. I'm also sure that Phil and Andy trust his judgement whilst at the same time feeling vaguely disappointed by his procrastination. I recall Andy disparaging Avalon only to reconsider it favourably, years later, as he re-listened to the lush soundscapes that Bryan created in that period. Yours aye Martino - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk Sent: 26 October 2007 08:17 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics Thanks. Shame you would view an exchange of views as an argument. Sounded like a simple question to me. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of KWil632057@aol.com Sent: 25 October 2007 23:49 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics In a message dated 25/10/2007 23:40:03 GMT Standard Time, rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk writes: Last decent album Ferry wrote? If ever there's an utterly pointless arguement to get into it's that one, so I'll leave you to it. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 09:43:02 -0400 From: kwil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics An excellent post Martin and utterly correct. J Its also unhelpful to pose the question in that way. Everyone here knows that there's only been one entirely self-penned album in the last 20 years, the excellent Mamouna. Is that the answer you're looking for? I would argue that ATGB, Frantic and Dylanesque all have a handful of gems. In general artists struggle to create strong work in their later years, although there are of course exceptions. Ferry is his own fiercest critic, and he is prone to self-doubt. A pleasant characteristic in this Big Brother / faux celebrity age. We all know that he has a good many great songs left in him, especially as he is looking so fit and confident these days. Yet... There's almost an undercurrent of thought in these pages that Bryan is malevolently holding back the Roxy album to spite Andy and Phil. This is nonsense. He is only too aware that the Roxy legacy could be irretrievably damaged by anything other than an extremely strong "comeback" album. I'm also sure that Phil and Andy trust his judgement whilst at the same time feeling vaguely disappointed by his procrastination. I recall Andy disparaging Avalon only to reconsider it favourably, years later, as he re-listened to the lush soundscapes that Bryan created in that period. Yours aye Martino - -----Original Message----- From: Martin Stockman To: rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk; avalon@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10.13am Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics But Rob it is clearly that this exchange of views is heading towards an argument, and we all know how boring that is. Its also unhelpful to pose the question in that way. Everyone here knows that there's only been one entirely self-penned album in the last 20 years, the excellent Mamouna. Is that the answer you're looking for? I would argue that ATGB, Frantic and Dylanesque all have a handful of gems. In general artists struggle to create strong work in their later years, although there are of course exceptions. Ferry is his own fiercest critic, and he is prone to self-doubt. A pleasant characteristic in this Big Brother / faux celebrity age. We all know that he has a good many great songs left in him, especially as he is looking so fit and confident these days. Yet... There's almost an undercurrent of thought in these pages that Bryan is malevolently holding back the Roxy album to spite Andy and Phil. This is nonsense. He is only too aware that the Roxy legacy could be irretrievably damaged by anything other than an extremely strong "comeback" album. I'm also sure that Phil and Andy trust his judgement whilst at the same time feeling vaguely disappointed by his procrastination. I recall Andy disparaging Avalon only to reconsider it favourably, years later, as he re-listened to the lush soundscapes that Bryan created in that period. Yours aye Martino - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk Sent: 26 October 2007 08:17 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics Thanks. Shame you would view an exchange of views as an argument. Sounded like a simple question to me. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of KWil632057@aol.com Sent: 25 October 2007 23:49 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics In a message dated 25/10/2007 23:40:03 GMT Standard Time, rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk writes: Last decent album Ferry wrote? If ever there's an utterly pointless arguement to get into it's that one, so I'll leave you to it. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with unlimited storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:21:55 -0400 From: "krnchse" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Standing room only for dilitantes Dandyism is alive and well and flaunting itself in SW7. Many thanks J for your enlightening and always colourful account of the evening.I was going to ask if there was a transcript anywhere,but i'm sure that it was a night that you just had to be there.Ah well.....BTW was the pinstripe KF&S or M&S? Regards DM ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:07:03 -0400 From: jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [AVALON] Standing room only for dilitantes I suspect a transcript of the night?already?exists as a draft for Bracewell's book as so much material that found it's way onto the pages was recounted on the night (and if that didn't get you buying RM/RM, nothing would). Sometimes it was almost like him reading whole?passages of the book to an enraptured audience?in that husky old voice of his. Like the book launches of yore. Good to hear him chuckle while?recalling that you had to make your way up the stairs past the bus driver's canteen to get to the Newcastle A-Go-Go and for him to quaintly?refer to his DJ-ing there as "playing records". Hang the man playing records doesn't have the same ring really does it? And him making a joke of never thinking Roxy would end up in a museum (after the RM/RM video showing) then remembering that he wrote his dissertation on Surrat in the Library of the V&A. And the supreme put down about Baby Jane Holzer after meeting her that "she was getting on?a bit then though". When you take all the pregnant?pauses, ummmms, errrrs, whats? and sorry am I jumping about too much out, it sounds like a really animated evening!? And the suit was immaculately wide chalk striped savillerow.com, but he might have been wearing M&S ladies frillies, which would account for his discomfort. J? - -----Original Message----- From: krnchse To: avalon@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 3.21pm Subject: Re: [AVALON] Standing room only for dilitantes Dandyism is alive and well and flaunting itself in SW7. Many thanks J for your enlightening and always colourful account of the evening.I was going to ask if there was a transcript anywhere,but i'm sure that it was a night that you just had to be there.Ah well.....BTW was the pinstripe KF&S or M&S? Regards DM ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Get a FREE AOL Email account with unlimited storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Click Here for more information. ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with unlimited storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:28:54 +0100 From: Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics Fair enough Martin, points very well made as ever. The question was could have been phrased more helpfully although so could the responses preceeding it. I agree about atgb etc, some gems. I feel it is a reasonable view that the album is no certainty given the circumstances and track record you describe below, one self penned album which didn't do that well in the last 20 years combined with perfectionism and self doubt. That was the original point. I'm not saying I'm correct - just my opinion. And as well as the great information that's what Ive enjoyed about this list over the years - you can discuss your opinion with others. That is rather difficult when opinion is presented as fact, and badly received if challenged. Cheers Rob - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Martin Stockman Sent: 26 October 2007 10:14 To: rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk; avalon@smoe.org Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics But Rob it is clearly that this exchange of views is heading towards an argument, and we all know how boring that is. Its also unhelpful to pose the question in that way. Everyone here knows that there's only been one entirely self-penned album in the last 20 years, the excellent Mamouna. Is that the answer you're looking for? I would argue that ATGB, Frantic and Dylanesque all have a handful of gems. In general artists struggle to create strong work in their later years, although there are of course exceptions. Ferry is his own fiercest critic, and he is prone to self-doubt. A pleasant characteristic in this Big Brother / faux celebrity age. We all know that he has a good many great songs left in him, especially as he is looking so fit and confident these days. Yet... There's almost an undercurrent of thought in these pages that Bryan is malevolently holding back the Roxy album to spite Andy and Phil. This is nonsense. He is only too aware that the Roxy legacy could be irretrievably damaged by anything other than an extremely strong "comeback" album. I'm also sure that Phil and Andy trust his judgement whilst at the same time feeling vaguely disappointed by his procrastination. I recall Andy disparaging Avalon only to reconsider it favourably, years later, as he re-listened to the lush soundscapes that Bryan created in that period. Yours aye Martino - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk Sent: 26 October 2007 08:17 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: RE: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics Thanks. Shame you would view an exchange of views as an argument. Sounded like a simple question to me. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of KWil632057@aol.com Sent: 25 October 2007 23:49 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry Cry Cryogenics In a message dated 25/10/2007 23:40:03 GMT Standard Time, rob.whiteford@larcltd.co.uk writes: Last decent album Ferry wrote? If ever there's an utterly pointless arguement to get into it's that one, so I'll leave you to it. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V12 #265 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest