From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V12 #256 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Monday, October 15 2007 Volume 12 : Number 256 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [AVALON] "Taxi is a pile of keech" [] Re: [AVALON] "Taxi is a pile of keech" ["Michiel van Sleen" Subject: RE: [AVALON] "Taxi is a pile of keech" KBP, Taxi is a pile of keech in my view because It has no creativity It has no originality It is over produced It followed 5 years of bog all after bete noire and boys and girls, but was a throwaway almost cheesey piece of work rushed out because the far more interesting Horoscope had stalled. It is devoid of any emotion. In fact, it's a pile of keech for all the reasons that have led you not to listen to Dylanesque yet. It's uninspiring and well within his limits. Lets have the dark brooding menacing sleazy cool ruler banging out the Cruel Ships' Captain and the Only face on piano any day over the carefully marketed carefully crafted sterile perfection. Nimrod. Lets see more of him shining torches around creepy houses with mannequins in polythene. More of the main thing video. More Zamba less Name of the Game. More Time goes by less Taxi. All relative though, I quite like Girl of My Best Friend, Taxi and All Tomorrows Parties. Oh and "Because Your Mine". But really its just a going through the motions collection of pretty boring stuff. To be honest I have only noticed Martin and I on here who feel the Prisoner of Perfection at his best solo is better than the early Roxy stuff. But despite that view there is no escaping the conclusion that Taxi is KEECH. Everything is of course just an opinion! Cheers Rob ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:51:53 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] "Taxi is a pile of keech" I also really love Gemini Moon, which reminds me of The Main Thing. There's real beauty hidden within all the keech/Kitsch/Taxi/quiche. In Ferry's world (oyster) there are often pearls hidden that emerge from the mud only if you pay attention. Remember that, all you swine, who can't see the pearls for the mud in Taxi! But the same goes for some of my posts. margaritas ante porcos. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'KB Porter'" ; Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: RE: [AVALON] "Taxi is a pile of keech" > KBP, > > Taxi is a pile of keech in my view because > > It has no creativity > It has no originality > It is over produced > It followed 5 years of bog all after bete noire and boys and girls, but > was > a throwaway almost cheesey piece of work rushed out because the far more > interesting Horoscope had stalled. > It is devoid of any emotion. > > In fact, it's a pile of keech for all the reasons that have led you not to > listen to Dylanesque yet. It's uninspiring and well within his limits. > > Lets have the dark brooding menacing sleazy cool ruler banging out the > Cruel > Ships' Captain and the Only face on piano any day over the carefully > marketed carefully crafted sterile perfection. Nimrod. Lets see more of > him > shining torches around creepy houses with mannequins in polythene. More of > the main thing video. More Zamba less Name of the Game. More Time goes by > less Taxi. > > All relative though, I quite like Girl of My Best Friend, Taxi and All > Tomorrows Parties. Oh and "Because Your Mine". But really its just a going > through the motions collection of pretty boring stuff. > > To be honest I have only noticed Martin and I on here who feel the > Prisoner > of Perfection at his best solo is better than the early Roxy stuff. But > despite that view there is no escaping the conclusion that Taxi is KEECH. > > Everything is of course just an opinion! > > Cheers > Rob > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:21:51 EDT From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] The Covers Factory was "Taxi is a pile of keech" And here was I thinking Taxi is a pile of keetch as in Stacey Keetch, namely a coked-out has-been. Which might very well describe Taxi , had it any life in it. A mogadon never-was maybe. I agree with Graham though, a decent top'n'tail and not much more, but if it was the catalyst to jolt Ferry out of pre-Mamouna coma then it served some kind of purpose. Now, forgive me for mixing threads but I meant to reply to the fave covers thread and then got side-tracked my Han's brilliant contribution. I'm surprised that we haven't delivered a universal thanks on this one, and bizarrely it seems to slip under the radar (perhaps, he's been inundated with off list posts, I hope so). But Han's Original Covers have helped me make up my mind about the "otherness" to borrow an anthropological term, of Ferry's reworkings. I tend to go for the ones where you can't identify the original in any way. Hard Rain being the obvious choice, In Crowd another one. I'm a sucker for reworking of mood (smooth Mod classic to sneering King of 'Them' to borrow from Peter York). The J J Cale Same Old Blues link from Han only served to remind me that Ferry can so easily slip into a karaoke rendition with the odd over pronunciation to remind us it's Ferry. Maybe a legacy of his days at the Newcastle Club-A-Go-Go with the Banshees where he just use to try and imitate records whichever song they were playing. And it only reminded me that he can't "do" borrowed soul on record (much better live) like the originals. Sorry all, but Ferry's Resc ue Me better than Fontella Bass' gut busting original? Hold on I'm Coming (on record, live it's a triumph) anywhere near the Stax perfection and over blown production of Sam'n'Dave's classic? Midnight Hour in the same league as Otis? He becomes far more interesting with the adoption of personae, when as York would have it "..he puts the idea into his living room, eats his art", rather than the straight Pop Art way of looking at things in a cock-eyed way but in a way that somebody else has already looked at them...leading to a widespread use of pastiche. It almost becomes a question of customised or ready made? Jocelyn BTW Loving, loving, loving the Bracewell book. A let down if statistic obsessed, but for fatalistic human watchers, a right riveting read. The Sun ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:00:59 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory was "Taxi is a pile of keech" What a fatalistic human watcher you are, Jocelyn. It's probably taxidermia you're thinking of when you say there's no life in Taxi. There's definitely life in it (maybe no Street Life) and all you need to do is pay the Ferry-man attention and before you know it there'll be black panthers and classy women leaping out of that cab. Maybe it's just too subtle for some people. Michiel - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: [AVALON] The Covers Factory was "Taxi is a pile of keech" > And here was I thinking Taxi is a pile of keetch as in Stacey Keetch, > namely > a coked-out has-been. Which might very well describe Taxi , had it any > life in > it. A mogadon never-was maybe. > I agree with Graham though, a decent top'n'tail and not much more, but if > it > was the catalyst to jolt Ferry out of pre-Mamouna coma then it served some > kind of purpose. > > Now, forgive me for mixing threads but I meant to reply to the fave covers > thread and then got side-tracked my Han's brilliant contribution. > I'm surprised that we haven't delivered a universal thanks on this one, > and > bizarrely it seems to slip under the radar (perhaps, he's been inundated > with > off list posts, I hope so). But Han's Original Covers have helped me make > up my > mind about the "otherness" to borrow an anthropological term, of Ferry's > reworkings. > I tend to go for the ones where you can't identify the original in any > way. > Hard Rain being the obvious choice, In Crowd another one. I'm a sucker for > reworking of mood (smooth Mod classic to sneering King of 'Them' to borrow > from > Peter York). > The J J Cale Same Old Blues link from Han only served to remind me that > Ferry > can so easily slip into a karaoke rendition with the odd over > pronunciation > to remind us it's Ferry. Maybe a legacy of his days at the Newcastle > Club-A-Go-Go with the Banshees where he just use to try and imitate > records whichever > song they were playing. And it only reminded me that he can't "do" > borrowed soul > on record (much better live) like the originals. Sorry all, but Ferry's > Resc > ue Me better than Fontella Bass' gut busting original? Hold on I'm Coming > (on > record, live it's a triumph) anywhere near the Stax perfection and over > blown > production of Sam'n'Dave's classic? Midnight Hour in the same league as > Otis? > He becomes far more interesting with the adoption of personae, when as > York > would have it "..he puts the idea into his living room, eats his art", > rather > than the straight Pop Art way of looking at things in a cock-eyed way but > in a > way that somebody else has already looked at them...leading to a > widespread > use of pastiche. > It almost becomes a question of customised or ready made? > > Jocelyn > > BTW Loving, loving, loving the Bracewell book. A let down if statistic > obsessed, but for fatalistic human watchers, a right riveting read. > The Sun > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:58:38 +0100 From: "Martin Stockman" Subject: [AVALON] Real Avalonians like a bit of Taxi quiche.. The problem with Taxi is the production. I think Trower and Bryan were actually attempting something quite original, with that weird harmonium thing. But it blurs his vocal and, to my ears, distorts the melodies. Think how good "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" was on Later with just Hubbard accompanying him on guitar. I like four tracks a lot - IPASOY, Answer Me, Rescue Me and Taxi. Its a mystery to me that Rescue Me, especially, is so little regarded in Avalonia. If you're looking for an art-school / oblique perspective on a classic this is it. I'm interested, and amazed, that All Tomorrow's Parties is mentioned as one of the better tracks by some, as I regard as his very worst remake. (Its a tie with Knockin' On Heaven's Door, if I'm being honest.) But Taxi remains a great little curio from a difficult time for Le Ferrari. Unlike Frantic it has the merit of hanging together as a "piece", with a consistency of style. Pip pip, Martino, waltzing on the banks of the Seine .... Champions, forevermore, forevermore ...... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.9/1067 - Release Date: 10/12/2007 18:02 ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:16:01 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory In a message dated 14/10/2007 13:12:08 GMT Standard Time, mvsleen@hotmail.com writes: Maybe it's just too subtle for some people. I think it's a bit too rubbish for most people actually. There's nothing subtle about giving a load of covers the Avalon treatment. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:21:54 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Real Avalonians like a bit of Taxi quiche.. When I said Gemini Moon, I meant Rescue Me. Sorry, silly mistake. Could happen to the best of us. Michiel - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Stockman" To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 1:58 PM Subject: [AVALON] Real Avalonians like a bit of Taxi quiche.. > The problem with Taxi is the production. I think Trower and Bryan were > actually attempting something quite original, with that weird harmonium > thing. But it blurs his vocal and, to my ears, distorts the melodies. > Think > how good "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" was on Later with just Hubbard > accompanying him on guitar. > I like four tracks a lot - IPASOY, Answer Me, Rescue Me and Taxi. Its a > mystery to me that Rescue Me, especially, is so little regarded in > Avalonia. > If you're looking for an art-school / oblique perspective on a classic > this > is it. I'm interested, and amazed, that All Tomorrow's Parties is > mentioned > as one of the better tracks by some, as I regard as his very worst remake. > (Its a tie with Knockin' On Heaven's Door, if I'm being honest.) > But Taxi remains a great little curio from a difficult time for Le > Ferrari. > Unlike Frantic it has the merit of hanging together as a "piece", with a > consistency of style. > Pip pip, Martino, waltzing on the banks of the Seine .... Champions, > forevermore, forevermore ...... > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.9/1067 - Release Date: > 10/12/2007 > 18:02 > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:39:11 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory The Avalon treatment sounds to me like you're reproaching him for sticking to his perfected style. You wouldn't say that about Bach or Chopin (not to mention Kylie), would you? "There Fez goes again, making his beautiful subtle music. How original." Okay, if you don't like Avalon that's another matter. I think it's the most perfect thing he's ever done, as a perfectionist. Not the most fun, but perfection. The same goes for Taxi, although it's certainly inferior to Avalon. Michiel - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory > In a message dated 14/10/2007 13:12:08 GMT Standard Time, > mvsleen@hotmail.com writes: > > > Maybe it's just too subtle for some people. > > > I think it's a bit too rubbish for most people actually. > > There's nothing subtle about giving a load of covers the Avalon treatment. > > J > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:58:18 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory Bryan Ferry was an artist whose career hinged on diversity and constant change. Roxy Music had three distinct periods (as I beleive he has mentioned in interview on numerous occasions). The solo stuff was also quite diverse - These Foolish Things and In Your Mind to As Time Goes By. A constant series of change. There's no doubt in my mind that got bogged down in trying to replicate that Avalon formula ( which was commercially successful as creatively pleasing first time around) instead of moving onto something else. What we got was the law of diminishing returns with a vengence over a period of just over 10 years! If you really think that Bryan Ferry is an artist who should be churning out stuff in his 'perfected style' then I feel that you underrate him. Surely after doing something so perfect, you should move onto a fresh challenge? J In a message dated 14/10/2007 13:39:24 GMT Standard Time, mvsleen@hotmail.com writes: The Avalon treatment sounds to me like you're reproaching him for sticking to his perfected style. You wouldn't say that about Bach or Chopin (not to mention Kylie), would you? "There Fez goes again, making his beautiful subtle music. How original." Okay, if you don't like Avalon that's another matter. I think it's the most perfect thing he's ever done, as a perfectionist. Not the most fun, but perfection. The same goes for Taxi, although it's certainly inferior to Avalon. Michiel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:10:02 EDT From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory >"There Fez goes again, making his beautiful subtle music. How original." One man's beautiful subtle music is another man's sanitised, formulaic MOR tableaux. Avalon always seemed as close to a Ferry solo Roxy album as you could get. Doesn't mean to say that there aren't tracks on there I really love, I just found the "clash" of styles from all members on previous offerings less predictable, more original and more interesting. One of the major problems I have with some of Ferry's later solo offerings is not just the version but the choice of songs. He went all MOR (post Avalon hangover?) on ma ass. Barbara Dickinson's Answer Me? Do me a favour. Was he hankering back to halcyon days of Saturday Night primetime? Ah, yes, the Cilla years, the Twiggy Collection. Heart on My Sleeve? Pass the sick bucket. What next? Underneath the Arches with Gilbert and George on backing vocals? Hhhmm, now I could warm to that post-post modernist notion. See what I mean about meat and poison? Jocelyn ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:57:36 -0400 From: bphilipson@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory I read an interview with Phil Manzanera in one of the guitar magazines at the time they were recording Avalon.? Phil made a comment about how he had to leave the interview because they were mixing Avalon and if he wasn't present Bryan would mix out all of Phil's guitar parts.? As much as I love Avalon, sometimes I think Phil must have gotten held up in traffic... - -----Original Message----- From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com To: avalon@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 8:10 am Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory >"There Fez goes again, making his beautiful subtle music. How original." One man's beautiful subtle music is another man's sanitised, formulaic MOR tableaux. Avalon always seemed as close to a Ferry solo Roxy album as you could get. Doesn't mean to say that there aren't tracks on there I really love, I just found the "clash" of styles from all members on previous offerings less predictable, more original and more interesting. One of the major problems I have with some of Ferry's later solo offerings is not just the version but the choice of songs. He went all MOR (post Avalon hangover?) on ma ass. Barbara Dickinson's Answer Me? Do me a favour. Was he hankering back to halcyon days of Saturday Night primetime? Ah, yes, the Cilla years, the Twiggy Collection. Heart on My Sleeve? Pass the sick bucket. What next? Underneath the Arches with Gilbert and George on backing vocals? Hhhmm, now I could warm to that post-post modernist notion. See what I mean about meat and poison? Jocelyn ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:37:15 +0100 From: "Bahi Para" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Saturday Times (London/UK) Chandla911@aol.com wrote: > Appealing feature in THE MAGAZINE Now available online. http://tinyurl.com/23uaem This seemed interesting: "As the young Bryan Ferry was beginning to envisage a marriage between rhythm and blues and Warholian Pop Art, the two other founding members of Roxy Music  Andy Mackay, at Reading University, and Brian Eno, over at Winchester School of Art" [...] I don't have the book; has Mr Simpson's role as co-founder been painted over completely? ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:46:39 EDT From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Saturday Times (London/UK) >> I don't have the book; has Mr Simpson's role as co-founder been > painted over completely? > On the contrary, he is credited with reverence throughout. Ferry: " When I knew Graham Simpson he was really bright. He read English when he was at University with me, and we lived in the same house when we were in Gas Board. He used to drive the van: I booked the gigs and arranged the rehearsals, but he did everything else. He had a fantastic collection of Blue Note albums which were his pride and joy. And he had some great girlfriends. He was a bit of a character. I liked Graham, and Roxy Music would never have happened without him. Just the fact that he spent all that time with me when I was writing the first songs - just plugging away on his bass, encouraging me. Being someone to play something to, and with..." Graham Simpson created the role of 'listening' collaborator, subsequently a mantle worn by Dr Puxley. Ferry again: "Graham was a fabulous player; very unusual. there's this lovely thing of his on Chance Meeting on the first album. He had all this jazz in his head. Once again, there was somebody who, if he hadn't been there I don't think my career would have taken off." Ferry on Simpson's breakdown: "...incredibly sad. I think he had some kind of psychedelic brainstorm and seemed to break down. Graham had started going through this strange thing with us all for several months, where he didn't speak to us. He would just come in, not say anything, play the bass and then leave. And this went on and on. That day they (Island's top brass) came, I think he just sat on the floor and played with tears running down his face. It was awful; and I guess we didn't really do enough to try and...it's easy when you look back: why didn't we just grab hold of him and shake him and say what the hell's the matter? But we just let it go on and on, and the managers said he had to leave. It seemed to be a strange long breakdown. I think it was acid..." Jocelyn ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:28:55 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory And we're supposed to be his FANS. In stead of a knighthood it sounds as if you're giving him an epitaph. I don't agree that one has to keep changing one's style. First there is the searching but when one finds what one (or you/two) were looking for, then you stick to it. You make a vow not to leave one another ever. Or as we say in The Netherlands: "Never kill a winning horse". Michiel - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Covers Factory > >"There Fez goes again, making his beautiful subtle music. How original." > > One man's beautiful subtle music is another man's sanitised, formulaic MOR > tableaux. Avalon always seemed as close to a Ferry solo Roxy album as you > could > get. Doesn't mean to say that there aren't tracks on there I really love, > I > just found the "clash" of styles from all members on previous offerings > less > predictable, more original and more interesting. > One of the major problems I have with some of Ferry's later solo offerings > is > not just the version but the choice of songs. He went all MOR (post Avalon > hangover?) on ma ass. Barbara Dickinson's Answer Me? Do me a favour. Was > he > hankering back to halcyon days of Saturday Night primetime? Ah, yes, the > Cilla > years, the Twiggy Collection. Heart on My Sleeve? Pass the sick bucket. > What next? Underneath the Arches with Gilbert and George on backing > vocals? > Hhhmm, now I could warm to that post-post modernist notion. > See what I mean about meat and poison? > > Jocelyn > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:18:17 +0100 From: "Bahi Para" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Saturday Times (London/UK) Jocelynfiske@aol.com wrote: >> I don't have the book; has Mr Simpson's role as co-founder been >> painted over completely? > On the contrary, he is credited with reverence throughout. Thanks for a _very_ informative reply! Bracewell owes you a drink (or, at the very least, something from the McDonald's pound menu, if authors earn as little per book as they sometimes claim) - you've sold another copy. Just ordered mine. Thank you. :) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V12 #256 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest