From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V12 #133 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, May 17 2007 Volume 12 : Number 133 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Eno B on Radio 3 [Chandla911@aol.com] [AVALON] Sorry to come in so late on such an old story... [Stephen Throwe] Re: [AVALON] Best Roxy albums [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Filip_Bj=F6rner?= ] [AVALON] Re: Eno's B.D. [MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.)] RE: [AVALON] Sorry to come in so late on such an old story... ["Guy Lawle] Re: [AVALON] Radio Times [KWil632057@aol.com] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 04:54:43 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Eno B on Radio 3 Brian Eno's music features as part of Late Junction (Radio 3 - 22 May - 23.15-01.00). Best wishes Richard Mills ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:26:02 +0100 From: Stephen Thrower Subject: [AVALON] Sorry to come in so late on such an old story... Given the hot air expelled in the media regarding Ferry's incautious words on Nazi imagery, perhaps we should look to the German media for a guide as to how we should assess the imagery in question. Here's what the German press had to say about Leni Riefenstahl on the occasion of her death... "Leni Riefenstahl conquered new ground in the cinema " - Der Tagesspiegel [Love that use of the word 'conquered'!] "In the 100 years, our moral, ideological and economic certainties collapsed, to be replaced by grey areas and contradictions. In this sense, Leni Riefenstahl was an icon of the 20th century." - Die Welt "Its effectiveness lies in the use of the most modern cinematic techniques to portray the principles of the 'new politics'." - Die Welt. "She was the muse of the Nazis... Her art was beautiful and dangerous at the same time." - Bild. "Hitler's Queen of the Amazons" - Der Tagesspiegel. "A visionary, a pioneer" - Berliner Morgenpost. Berlin's Die Tageszeitung headlines its report "Death of a bizarre media icon". Her legacy, the paper writes, can still be seen "in her enormous archive of styles, used again and again by advertising and popular culture." Many commentators point to the Star Wars films by George Lucas as being clearly influenced by her. "Today you can see her cinematic language in sport broadcasts, music videos, and jeans commercials. She is the mother of all adverts." And this assessment of her invaluable contribution to modern aesthetics differs from Ferry's opinion how, exactly? It seems to me that Ferry was careless not to attach the usual caveats about the monstrousness of the Nazis' political regime (perhaps assuming, naively, that they could be taken as given), but his assessment of the impact and beauty of Riefenstahl's (and Speer's) imagery is almost universally concurred with by German pundits and intellectual commentators. So when the major newspapers of Germany take time out, fifty years later, to admire aspects of their one-time regime's artworks and presentation, we nod sagely, but when a British rock star makes a comment to the same effect he's jumped on for being a fascist sympathizer? I guess we should all boycott the Star Wars films too, by the look of it. (Not much of a sacrifice, I know...) One look at the history of rock music and you can see a veritable Fourth Reich at play, from Bowie's intellectual flirtations to punk's nihilistic flirtations and on into Queen's bombastic videos for 'One Vision' and 'Radio Ga-Ga'. Indeed, the Slovenian art-rock troupe Laibach covered 'One Vision' and sang it as a guttural martial war-song, amplifying the fascistic overtones into parody. There has frequently been a problem in differentiating between art and the political or social views of the artist. Philosophers have enormous difficulty in jettisoning Martin Heidegger, one of the most important figures in modern philosophy whose ideas set the scene for existentialism and post-modernism, even despite the fact that he was a self-avowed Nazi sympathizer during the war, breaking off contact with his one-time mentor, the Jewish philosopher Edmund Husserl. Heidegger is still taught in philosophy classes in Britain and across Europe. Medical advances that owe their initial experimental data to Nazi experiments on unwilling human guinea pigs are still current. Benefits from the research are used in the treatment of patients. As for the moral 'dress-code' surrounding this ethical dilemma, John P. Fernandez, a hypothermia researcher, wrote in an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association: "These sordid investigations proved to the satisfaction of the executioners that the best method of resuscitating hypothermia prisoners was by rapid and intensive rewarming." Science writer Kristine Moe praised that article as a model for the tone in which Nazi research, if used, should be cited. (Citations at Wikipedia, under 'Nazi Human Experimentation'). Ferry committed the moral equivalent of turning up to dinner inapproproately attired. He neglected to condemn the Nazi regime, and was thus 'underdressed' for the occasion. That is if we can believe the transcripts, and allowing for the fact that tone of voice or implication can play a part. There are serious ways in which music has allied itself to Nazi ideology - there are several bands whose imagery and lyrical concersn explicitly celebrate the Nazi era. Attacking Ferry for this minor faux-pas is just the usual self-righteous media swill masquerading as moral conscience. Steve Thrower ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:11:46 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Filip_Bj=F6rner?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Best Roxy albums Rob wrote: "The first album to me is more of a concept than a finished product for me, but what a concept!" Yes, that's a good description! And the strangest thing was that neither that album nor FYP contained the fantastic song Virginia Plain. Actually I was annoyed by that, because I prefered playing lp:s rather than singles. And now a few words about an interview with Bryan in the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, May 4. In that interview Bryan thinks the song This island earth was recorded as early as 1976. He said that Roxy had'nt played those songs since then, before the reunion tour. But the interviewer remembered it was on the record The bride stripped bare from 1978. The main content of that interview is about Dylanesque and the fact that Bryan never met Bob. Filip www.subrock.se (Mp3 files with rock music) www.tubsnack.se (Swedish bla bla bla) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:21:58 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Filip_Bj=F6rner?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Best Roxy albums Yes, Beaty Queen is nice... All Roxy albums contains fantastic songs, but Stranded is a record with a full fledged mature sound all over. Country Life contains Out of the blue, and Siren contains a few pearls too... Filip www.subrock.se (Mp3 files with rock music) www.tubsnack.se (Swedish bla bla bla) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:09:59 +0100 From: "Colette Robertson" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Radio Times It seems the poster offer is now finished. "Title: Seven Ages of Rock. Image Ref.: 10465919 Description: Radio Times is no longer offering the Seven Ages of Rock image for sale and apologises for any disappointment." When you see the four covers together Ferry is one of the most prominent figures. Cheers, Colette - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of mark_stephens Sent: 09 May 2007 21:51 To: Avalon group Subject: [AVALON] Radio Times Sorry if it's mentioned already, but don't miss picking up the Radio Times today with a pretty suave picture of Mr.Fez in White Dinner jacket. It's got to be a triumph to appear on this iconic magazine, which has been part of the British culture since the days of black and white TV. The cover promotes the Seven Ages of Rock to be broadcast on Saturday BBC2. What makes this cover interesting is that it is one of 4 different covers, (Think they did this for Live 8) All four covers featuring 3 or 4 artisits on each cover join up to make one big poster. The poster can be ordered for #7.50 www.ssprints.com I have picked up a few copies for fans outside the U.K. and would be happy to post them for a trade. Kind Regards, Mark - - Special message from TalkTalk - Please help in the search for Madeleine McCann Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, has devised an email poster as she fears that Madeleine may have been taken to Spain where the girl's disappearance has generated less attention. You can download the poster from here http://news.aol.co.uk/web-appeal-over-missing-madeleine/article/200705100638 0 9990001. Anyone with information should contact the Portuguese police direct on 00 351 282 405 400 (international call rates apply) or contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:45:13 -0400 From: "paul \(jeff\) pavlock" Subject: [AVALON] new e-mail my new e-mail address is ppavlock@roadrunner.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:06:36 -0500 From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Re: Eno's B.D. Brain Eno turned 59 yesterday. Always, Marlana ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:50:33 +0100 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Sorry to come in so late on such an old story... Please don't apologise! A very well-researched reply, highly informative and good to have read. Thanks very much. Guy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Thrower Sent: 15 May 2007 11:26 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] Sorry to come in so late on such an old story... Given the hot air expelled in the media regarding Ferry's incautious words on Nazi imagery, perhaps we should look to the German media for a guide as to how we should assess the imagery in question. Here's what the German press had to say about Leni Riefenstahl on the occasion of her death... "Leni Riefenstahl conquered new ground in the cinema " - Der Tagesspiegel [Love that use of the word 'conquered'!] "In the 100 years, our moral, ideological and economic certainties collapsed, to be replaced by grey areas and contradictions. In this sense, Leni Riefenstahl was an icon of the 20th century." - Die Welt "Its effectiveness lies in the use of the most modern cinematic techniques to portray the principles of the 'new politics'." - Die Welt. "She was the muse of the Nazis... Her art was beautiful and dangerous at the same time." - Bild. "Hitler's Queen of the Amazons" - Der Tagesspiegel. "A visionary, a pioneer" - Berliner Morgenpost. Berlin's Die Tageszeitung headlines its report "Death of a bizarre media icon". Her legacy, the paper writes, can still be seen "in her enormous archive of styles, used again and again by advertising and popular culture." Many commentators point to the Star Wars films by George Lucas as being clearly influenced by her. "Today you can see her cinematic language in sport broadcasts, music videos, and jeans commercials. She is the mother of all adverts." And this assessment of her invaluable contribution to modern aesthetics differs from Ferry's opinion how, exactly? It seems to me that Ferry was careless not to attach the usual caveats about the monstrousness of the Nazis' political regime (perhaps assuming, naively, that they could be taken as given), but his assessment of the impact and beauty of Riefenstahl's (and Speer's) imagery is almost universally concurred with by German pundits and intellectual commentators. So when the major newspapers of Germany take time out, fifty years later, to admire aspects of their one-time regime's artworks and presentation, we nod sagely, but when a British rock star makes a comment to the same effect he's jumped on for being a fascist sympathizer? I guess we should all boycott the Star Wars films too, by the look of it. (Not much of a sacrifice, I know...) One look at the history of rock music and you can see a veritable Fourth Reich at play, from Bowie's intellectual flirtations to punk's nihilistic flirtations and on into Queen's bombastic videos for 'One Vision' and 'Radio Ga-Ga'. Indeed, the Slovenian art-rock troupe Laibach covered 'One Vision' and sang it as a guttural martial war-song, amplifying the fascistic overtones into parody. There has frequently been a problem in differentiating between art and the political or social views of the artist. Philosophers have enormous difficulty in jettisoning Martin Heidegger, one of the most important figures in modern philosophy whose ideas set the scene for existentialism and post-modernism, even despite the fact that he was a self-avowed Nazi sympathizer during the war, breaking off contact with his one-time mentor, the Jewish philosopher Edmund Husserl. Heidegger is still taught in philosophy classes in Britain and across Europe. Medical advances that owe their initial experimental data to Nazi experiments on unwilling human guinea pigs are still current. Benefits from the research are used in the treatment of patients. As for the moral 'dress-code' surrounding this ethical dilemma, John P. Fernandez, a hypothermia researcher, wrote in an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association: "These sordid investigations proved to the satisfaction of the executioners that the best method of resuscitating hypothermia prisoners was by rapid and intensive rewarming." Science writer Kristine Moe praised that article as a model for the tone in which Nazi research, if used, should be cited. (Citations at Wikipedia, under 'Nazi Human Experimentation'). Ferry committed the moral equivalent of turning up to dinner inapproproately attired. He neglected to condemn the Nazi regime, and was thus 'underdressed' for the occasion. That is if we can believe the transcripts, and allowing for the fact that tone of voice or implication can play a part. There are serious ways in which music has allied itself to Nazi ideology - there are several bands whose imagery and lyrical concersn explicitly celebrate the Nazi era. Attacking Ferry for this minor faux-pas is just the usual self-righteous media swill masquerading as moral conscience. Steve Thrower ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:40:55 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Radio Times And so a very rare collectable is created! J In a message dated 16/05/2007 20:16:56 GMT Standard Time, cr011a2978@blueyonder.co.uk writes: It seems the poster offer is now finished. "Title: Seven Ages of Rock. Image Ref.: 10465919 Description: Radio Times is no longer offering the Seven Ages of Rock image for sale and apologises for any disappointment." When you see the four covers together Ferry is one of the most prominent figures. Cheers, Colette ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V12 #133 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest