From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V12 #104 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, April 19 2007 Volume 12 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] No sympathy for the teufel [johnobrien001@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] No sympathy for the teufel ["Michiel van Sleen" ] RE: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article ["KB Porter" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:37:16 -0400 From: johnobrien001@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] No sympathy for the teufel - -----Original Message----- From: mvsleen@hotmail.com <>> There is a whole episode of 'Father Ted' very close to bone too. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:19:59 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] No sympathy for the teufel Would you believe I've just acquired the whole series (25 episodes, I believe), and now spend my nights laughing out loud, waking up my family? I think you are referring to the episode featuring the Chinese colony on Craggy Island? One of my favorites, especially the spot on the window scene is hilarious. Brilliant series! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] No sympathy for the teufel > -----Original Message----- > From: mvsleen@hotmail.com > > > < Ferry's boot-in-mouth moment reminds me of a scene in Fawlty Towers: >>> > > > There is a whole episode of 'Father Ted' very close to bone too. > > J.O'B. > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:24:10 +0100 From: Subject: RE: [AVALON] TV Adverts Whilst emerging from my coma this morning to the sounds of GMTV (is the lovely Penny Smith getting heavier or has my screen gone funny?) I heard the master in action. TV promotion for Dylanesque - black and white - bits of Times they r a changing and I think knockin' on heavens door. Didn't slide much in the chart this week - just outside the top 50. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:03:31 -0400 From: "KB Porter" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article RUBBISH! - "the mass parades and the flags - just amazing. Really beautiful." A visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC or to any one of the scores of museums, worldwide, that are dedicated to preserving the memory of the Nazi Holocaust should be enough to make any rational person feel like throwing-up: The notion that Nazis on parade is 'esthetically beautiful' should effectively be dispelled when viewing these historic visual exhibits - there is NOTHING beautiful about the grotesqueness of Nazis on parade when viewed in its native context, and it is very dangerous to separate any of the myriad notions that comprise the total of the Holocaust because 'the hand is the glove' and the 'mind is the body'. Ferry should know better than to stupidly acknowledge admiration of anything Nazi unless he supports the Nazi movement. And if he does, I will take my money elsewhere. I can only hope he, and others, understand that their ignorance teaches the unlearned it is OK to espouse deranged ideas that glorify evil and its progeny. See how the tail can wag the dog... Geez, not even the Magic Kingdom can sweeten the nightmare of nazism, even if it is a small, small world. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:54:24 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article But, to a lesser level, do we not enjoy the music of Bryan Ferry despite the fact that some of us find his pro-fox hunting sympathies abhorrant? In that particular case, he actually believes in the cause, but you haven't taken your money elsewhere have you? Neither, I suspect, have you thrown away your copy of Flesh and Blood - despite knowing what obviously influenced the cover - a cover that is particularly pleasant to look at... Please give some credit to those of us who can seperate the aesthetic from the ideology. Contrary to what you might read on here sometimes, I'm an educated person and am perfectly capable to make the distinction. Is there a fear that to consider any part of that aesthetic to be of quality will mean that we will incur the development of some sort of 4th Reich? Because of this, are we to be forbidden our own self-opinion? J In a message dated 18/04/2007 16:11:53 GMT Standard Time, kbporter@verizon.net writes: RUBBISH! - "the mass parades and the flags - just amazing. Really beautiful." A visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC or to any one of the scores of museums, worldwide, that are dedicated to preserving the memory of the Nazi Holocaust should be enough to make any rational person feel like throwing-up: The notion that Nazis on parade is 'esthetically beautiful' should effectively be dispelled when viewing these historic visual exhibits - there is NOTHING beautiful about the grotesqueness of Nazis on parade when viewed in its native context, and it is very dangerous to separate any of the myriad notions that comprise the total of the Holocaust because 'the hand is the glove' and the 'mind is the body'. Ferry should know better than to stupidly acknowledge admiration of anything Nazi unless he supports the Nazi movement. And if he does, I will take my money elsewhere. I can only hope he, and others, understand that their ignorance teaches the unlearned it is OK to espouse deranged ideas that glorify evil and its progeny. See how the tail can wag the dog... Geez, not even the Magic Kingdom can sweeten the nightmare of nazism, even if it is a small, small world. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:55:24 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article I hope most of us will eventually agree that Ferry actually said nothing wrong, but that he could have known that many people - especially those who have suffered from the Nazi's - would take offence, misinterpreting his words. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article > But, to a lesser level, do we not enjoy the music of Bryan Ferry despite > the > fact that some of us find his pro-fox hunting sympathies abhorrant? In > that > particular case, he actually believes in the cause, but you haven't taken > your money elsewhere have you? > Neither, I suspect, have you thrown away your copy of Flesh and Blood - > despite knowing what obviously influenced the cover - a cover that is > particularly pleasant to look at... > > Please give some credit to those of us who can seperate the aesthetic > from > the ideology. Contrary to what you might read on here sometimes, I'm an > educated person and am perfectly capable to make the distinction. > > Is there a fear that to consider any part of that aesthetic to be of > quality > will mean that we will incur the development of some sort of 4th Reich? > Because of this, are we to be forbidden our own self-opinion? > > J > > > > > > > In a message dated 18/04/2007 16:11:53 GMT Standard Time, > kbporter@verizon.net writes: > > RUBBISH! - "the mass parades and the flags - just amazing. Really > beautiful." > > A visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC or to any > one > of the scores of museums, worldwide, that are dedicated to preserving the > memory of the Nazi Holocaust should be enough to make any rational person > feel like throwing-up: The notion that Nazis on parade is 'esthetically > beautiful' should effectively be dispelled when viewing these historic > visual exhibits - there is NOTHING beautiful about the grotesqueness of > Nazis on parade when viewed in its native context, and it is very > dangerous > to separate any of the myriad notions that comprise the total of the > Holocaust because 'the hand is the glove' and the 'mind is the body'. > > Ferry should know better than to stupidly acknowledge admiration of > anything > Nazi unless he supports the Nazi movement. And if he does, I will take > my > money elsewhere. > > I can only hope he, and others, understand that their ignorance teaches > the > unlearned it is OK to espouse deranged ideas that glorify evil and its > progeny. > > See how the tail can wag the dog... > > Geez, not even the Magic Kingdom can sweeten the nightmare of nazism, > even > if it is a small, small world. KBP > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:04:19 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article Interestingly enough though: Leni Riefenstahl was the first to photograph rock star Mick Jagger and his wife Bianca as a couple holding hands after they were married, as they were both admirers. Jagger told Riefenstahl he had seen Triumph of the Will at least 15 times. Best consign that Steel Wheels lp to the bin then (if it's not there already)! J In a message dated 18/04/2007 17:59:03 GMT Standard Time, mvsleen@hotmail.com writes: I hope most of us will eventually agree that Ferry actually said nothing wrong, but that he could have known that many people - especially those who have suffered from the Nazi's - would take offence, misinterpreting his words. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:16:56 -0400 From: Colleen Matan Subject: Fwd: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article Passing this along-- Colleen - ----- Forwarded message from deadhorse@beaten.com ----- Date: Wednesday, 18 Apr 2007 13:14:59 EDT From: Mr. Ed Reply-To: deadhorse@beaten.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article To: avalon@smoe.org please have mercy on me. - ----- End forwarded message ----- ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:53:15 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article Very surreal. I suspect foal play. I see that there is a strong rumor that Ferry has been dumped by M&S, although he was pretty much at the end of his contract with them.... J In a message dated 18/04/2007 19:19:05 GMT Standard Time, cjem@his.com writes: Passing this along-- Colleen - ----- Forwarded message from deadhorse@beaten.com ----- Date: Wednesday, 18 Apr 2007 13:14:59 EDT From: Mr. Ed Reply-To: deadhorse@beaten.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article To: avalon@smoe.org please have mercy on me. - ----- End forwarded message ----- ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:27:08 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article There's beauty in the grotesque and the obscure, the sinister. Not everyone finds it there, but many Romantic spirits have thought so. Because the unknown fascinates us, because it's awesome, awe referring to both admiration and fear. A true Romantic soul can even feel sympathy for the devil (as in Paradise Lost) because he was alone, an outsider. Now Ferry could face that fate, outside looking in. Poor devil. But all that is the realm of art! Art is from all ages and cultures and cannot be claimed by anyone. We should realise that Nazi imagery existed before them and is not really the problem. Just images, meant to excite. Nazi's politics however, of course were almost the opposite of Romantic, safety in numbers, survival of the fittest, inhuman logics, nothing Romantic about that. AND SO FAR NONE OF US HAS DEFENDED THEIR POLITICS! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KB Porter" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: RE: [AVALON] Independent on Sunday article > RUBBISH! - "the mass parades and the flags - just amazing. Really > beautiful." > > A visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC or to any one > of the scores of museums, worldwide, that are dedicated to preserving the > memory of the Nazi Holocaust should be enough to make any rational person > feel like throwing-up: The notion that Nazis on parade is 'esthetically > beautiful' should effectively be dispelled when viewing these historic > visual exhibits - there is NOTHING beautiful about the grotesqueness of > Nazis on parade when viewed in its native context, and it is very > dangerous > to separate any of the myriad notions that comprise the total of the > Holocaust because 'the hand is the glove' and the 'mind is the body'. > > Ferry should know better than to stupidly acknowledge admiration of > anything > Nazi unless he supports the Nazi movement. And if he does, I will take my > money elsewhere. > > I can only hope he, and others, understand that their ignorance teaches > the > unlearned it is OK to espouse deranged ideas that glorify evil and its > progeny. > > See how the tail can wag the dog... > > Geez, not even the Magic Kingdom can sweeten the nightmare of nazism, even > if it is a small, small world. KBP > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:48:15 +0100 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: [AVALON] Vintage Beano appearance reissue ... Just delurking briefly to share my random discovery that Lady June's 'Linguistic Leprosy' is about to be reissued on CD in a few days (April 23rd) - one of those albums I just never came across on vinyl at the time. Aside from appearances from Eno, Kevin Ayers and (the sadly-departed) Pip Pyle, I was surprised to discover that electronic pioneer David Vorhaus also appears on it. Mr Vorhaus was part of White Noise, whose fantastic but deeply disturbing 1968 debut classic 'An Electric Storm' also featured one Delia Derbyshire from the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (Delia was responsible for the eerie electronic 'realisation' of the Dr Who theme tune). Regards, Ivor n.p. Shang Shang Typhoon '2' ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:16:18 -0400 From: "Theresa Fagan" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Vintage Beano appearance reissue ... Show of hands -- I've got a vinyl copy! In Ohio!! - --TriTri - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ivor Canning Just delurking briefly to share my random discovery that Lady June's 'Linguistic Leprosy' is about to be reissued on CD in a few days (April 23rd) - one of those albums I just never came across on vinyl at the time. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:57:49 +0200 From: "Michiel van Sleen" Subject: [AVALON] The usual suspects I blame the press of blowing all this out of proportion and twisting facts. My suggestion for a Dylanesque B-side: "Idiot Wind", by Bob Dylan (a Jew, BTW): "Someone's got it in for me They're printing stories in the press Whoever it is, I wish they'd cut it out quick But when they wuill I can only guess" ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V12 #104 ***************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest