From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V9 #228 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, September 10 2004 Volume 09 : Number 228 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) [philip77@t] [AVALON] Scissor Sisters ["Therese O'Donnell" ] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) [Colleen Ma] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) [=?iso-8859] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) [Colleen Ma] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) [=?iso-8859] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard [Daniel Atterbom ] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard [Daniel Atterbom ] [AVALON] Digest member saying "Hi" [STARGROUPIE13@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] 6PM-review [Daniel Atterbom ] [AVALON] Not innovative ? ["opd" ] Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) ["Thomas Wa] [AVALON] FULL OF HOPE ["Charly" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:16:39 +0100 From: philip77@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) Well said, Chris. Its amazing that the same people who used to complain when Ferry was quiet , still complain now that he has put himself much more into the limelight. So there is no new material, so what? It will come or it won't. Live with it. (hint; try to re-discover the early solo albums). I am happy to enjoy a 30-year canon of great music over and over again ( on record). I said before that this years tour was possiby ill-conceived in that it was not meant for the fanbase. We had had the Roxy tour and the Frantic tour. The fact that he was ill was not his fault. I would not go trooping off round the country in the vain hope that he'll play "Beauty Queen" for once and not "Jealous Guy". Philip > I attribute this to a handful >of self-styled >'real fans' who continually criticise every minute aspect of Ferry's life >and career, and who are >neither representative of Avalon's membership, or Ferry's broader fanbase. > >Chris > > --- > >___________________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > __________________________________________________________________ Get Tiscali Broadband From #15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:08:45 +0100 From: "Therese O'Donnell" Subject: [AVALON] Scissor Sisters That's funny as for once I disagree with you Mr. J. I had thought that SS clearly wore their RM influence upon their heavily decorated sleeves. Super-camp (e.g. Flithy/Gorgeous), clever lyrics and at times, extremely dark. Perhaps the darkness bit is what I think distinguishes them from Elton John as compared to Roxy. EJ never struck me as having a dark emotional depth in his music (I can be corrected) whereas RM always showed this, but most particularly did so on For Your Pleasure. The cover of RM, the darkness of FYP, the desire for attention evident on CL and the need to dance from Siren, are all clear in the SS album. SS also have a faded glamour element to their music which again puts them closer to RM (witness Return to Oz). The very video for "Laura" with the two singers having a meal in a savagely burlesque style, in particular, has overtones which I think early RM members would have loved. On hearing SS I wouldn't think of them as an obviously American band, rather Americans who spent their time while growing up listening to European bands, and I think I might have guessed RM would be among those if I didn't already know their claimed influence. At the NYC gigs on the 2001 RM tour, there were a fair few bods who I would put a year's wages on will have been at SS concerts. They just looked the part! On another note... In relation to Franz Ferdinand, particular favourites of mine, their influence is very German and obviously Kraftwerky. Nevertheless, at least one of their press photographs clearly mimics the inside cover of the For Your Pleasure album and they have a certain campness (Michael) at times. Their music most reflects a sentiment of wanting another night with the boys oh yeah. They don't sound like boys trying to sound like RM but a lot of their lyrics do sound like boys that grew up (in Glasgow!) listening to early 70s bands as well as say the Smiths, and I believe a certain Mr. Morrisey was influenced by early RM. FF were also involved in the setting up of a multimedia place called the Chateau (now come on, that influence speaks for itself) which combines a venue for young bands and spaces for artistic projects. This crossover again reminds me very much of the Eno and Ferrymen. Everything is just six degrees of separation dontcha know. The jewelled glove is at your feet Mr. J., prove me wrong and argue that Elton could be an artistic muse. Regards Therese -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org on behalf of KWil632057@aol.com Sent: Thu 09/09/2004 16:39 To: avalon@smoe.org Cc: Subject: Re: [AVALON] Our nightingale is past his prime Scissor Sisters have more in common with Elton John than Roxy. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:29:54 EDT From: Alanandalyj@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Re: Bryan and Roger Daltrey Whilst listing the cassette by Roger Daltrey-Parting Should be Painless 1984 on E Bay I happened to notice that Bryan had written a track called Going Strong and that Chris Spedding had played guitar on the said album.I haven't written to the list for awhile as there hasn't really been alot to say but I thought this would be of interest to my fellow Avalonians and also whether anyone on the list new more about this track then I do I just can't recall it at all.Alan Will be playing Roger Daltery-Going Strong ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:44:32 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard In a message dated 10/09/2004 05:17:00 GMT Daylight Time, roxyrama@yahoo.co.uk writes: In November last year the figures were 199 and 167 respectively. This is the first year in Avalon's history when the membership has fallen. I attribute this to a handful of self-styled 'real fans' who continually criticise every minute aspect of Ferry's life and career, and who are neither representative of Avalon's membership, or Ferry's broader fanbase. Chris Really? I would attribute the drop due to the fact that Ferry's flogging a dead horse with greatest hits compilations released as a substitute for new albums, and a never ending tour that even the die hards are board of. Most people who signed up would have done so because Ferry is (was?) an interesting artist with lyrics and themes that regularly recieved ripe discussion and the occasional fascinating revelation. There was also the rumour and speculation about new material, frenzied debate on authenticity of track listing, cover art, lyrical themes etc. It was great. But we don't want to be stuck looking into the past like Ferry is now. It's a crying shame that an inspiring creative artist has forgotton that 'next time is the best time.' J n/p Doctor Who at the BBC Volume 2 ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:11:03 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Bryan and Roger Daltrey _http://moo.vivaroxymusic.com/2069_ (http://moo.vivaroxymusic.com/2069) Tell us what its like when you hear it! J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:19:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Heather Marie Buch wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Colleen Matan wrote: > > > At the moment there are 187 folks on the talk list and 149 on the digest. > > This is about the highest subscription the list has ever had (I remember > > when it was basically me, Gene, Bahi, William, Miles, and a few folks who > > are no longer with us!). > > And me! I've been off and on the list since about '97, (albeit not always > posting so much) I was thinking back to '93-'94 when I think there were just 25-30 of us. ;-). Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:22:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, [iso-8859-1] Chris Turner wrote: > In November last year the figures were 199 and 167 respectively. This is > the first year in Avalon's history when the membership has fallen. I > attribute this to a handful of self-styled 'real fans' who continually > criticise every minute aspect of Ferry's life and career, and who are > neither representative of Avalon's membership, or Ferry's broader > fanbase. Uh, OK. I attribute it to the removal of bouncing email addresses of people who never posted to Avalon to begin with. But what do I know? Colleen p.s. If you (the generic and universal "you") would like to see different discussion topics on the list, by all means, launch some new threads. To paraphrase Gandhi, "Be the change you wish on the list." ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:45:28 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Chris=20Turner?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) Not so actually. In February 2003 the figures stood at 234 and 192. Removal of bounced emails that year (you may recall that it was me who asked for that) reduced each list by about 50 members. The numbers have fallen slightly since the summer of 03. I'll happily give you the figures for the growth and subsequent decline in numbers over the last few years. Oh, and I'll take your question to be rhetorical. Chris --- Colleen Matan wrote: > Uh, OK. > > I attribute it to the removal of bouncing email addresses of people > who never posted to Avalon to begin with. But what do I know? > > Colleen ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, [iso-8859-1] Chris Turner wrote: > Not so actually. In February 2003 the figures stood at 234 and 192. > Removal of bounced emails that year (you may recall that it was me who > asked for that) reduced each list by about 50 members. The numbers have Give me a break. Chris, you did no such thing. I took over this list a least a year prior to your "request" and at that point, once I started receving the bounced messages as list administrator, I removed a large number of addresses and I have continued to do the maintenance on the subscription list since then on a daily basis. Your input into this process has been zero. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:47:15 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Chris=20Turner?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) I do think that the general tone of the conversation in Avalon is unbalanced, in its unceasing criticism of Ferry. Surely I'm not the only person who has enjoyed the last few years? His last two albums were critical and commercial successes (Virgin have 3 people assigned to him which indicates a rekindled interest on their part), and he will have a new album out next year. A sequence of three years between albums, given the difficult artistic processes involved, seems entirely reasonable for a man fewer than 400 days from his 60th birthday. Don't infer any lack of effort from his reluctance to release albums. He really is constantly working on material. It's just that his style of working, and attention to detail, demand time. His touring gives as many people as possible the chance to see him live, not something we can say of long periods of his career. He has repeatedly said that he will continue to tour in the future. At concerts I don't hear groups of people moaning about the setlist, I hear hundreds of people having a good time. They may not know who played the bongos on As The World Turns, but the point is they dont have to. The lack of change in the setlist will not affect 98% of the audience, and in any case let's put the lie to that nonsense. Saying you wouldn't go to a concert in case you hear the same songs is as idiotic as saying you'll throw your albums away because you've heard them before. I've been to many gigs with a similar setlist, but I've never been to two gigs that were the same. There is more foolishness here regarding the compilations. They're not aimed at anyone here, and more fool you if you shell out on them. Compilations are intended to appeal to mass markets and new audiences - A housewife looking for a few songs from her youth, a kid hearing Franz Ferdinand naming Roxy as an influence might pick up a #6.99 compilation and understand what we're on about. If Ferry is to sustain a commercial career, he has to maintain a broader appeal than the 300 inhabitants of Avalon, and that means live appearances, TV, Miss World, Selfridges et al. That's how he maintains his visibility, and his income. The good burghers of Avalon wouldn't fill one quarter of the smallest venue on his tour, and our combined sales wouldn't buy him dinner for a week. Step back and have a look. We are lucky that BF is still relevant, available and trying to make good music after 32 years in the business. It wouldn't hurt to hear that in here once in a while. Chris ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:15:19 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard At 06.19 -0400 04-09-10, Colleen Matan wrote: >I was thinking back to '93-'94 when I think there were just 25-30 of us. >;-). I joined almost 6 years ago, before ATGB, before the reunion, Frantic et al. We were then talking about Velvet Goldmine. Lists change, people's perspective change. I miss my fellow Swede Kicki G, but her homepage in Swedish tells me that she's busy with work, family, a new house, sewing etc. My most posted link: The Natural Life Cycle Of Mailing Lists http://www.swopnet.com/misc/Mailing_Lists_Life_Cycle.html I like the works of Bryan Ferry, Roxy Music, 801, Eno etc. I like them more then most artists, bands, that I've come across. Have they passed their prime? Maybe. Are there too many best of etc? Yes. Are they still influential? Yes. Are Manzanera and Eno still intresting producers? Yes. Would we lika another album by Ferry? Yes. Would we lika another album by Roxy? Yes. Mentime, have a happy holiday. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:29:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) > Don't infer any lack of effort from his reluctance to release > albums. He really is constantly working on material. It's > just that his style of working, and attention to detail, demand time. How do you know about his constant working on material? > Step back and have a look. We are lucky that BF is still relevant, > available and trying to make good music after 32 years in the > business. It wouldn't hurt to hear that in here once in a while. Personally, I don't critique any ole artist just for the heck of it. I do so because I care, because I like the artist's work and wish to push for more excellence. Not bitch for the sake of bitching. :) (Sure thing, there's got to be a sensible middle ground, between the backyards of bitching and the fields of fawning.) - ---joel _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:37:35 +0200 (METDST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Colleen Matan wrote: > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Heather Marie Buch wrote: > > And me! I've been off and on the list since about '97, (albeit not always > > posting so much) > > I was thinking back to '93-'94 when I think there were just 25-30 of us. > ;-). Fair enough, I just couldn't resist the opportunity to talk about my favorite subject! ;-) Also I pine for the days of Vapor..... Heather ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:51:29 +0200 (METDST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) I'll buy that. I would also forgive the compilations due to the fact that selling the same songs over and over again seems like a reasonably fair way to get back at the multitudes of people who are now copying music and paying nothing for it. I think someone else (Jeff Turner?) has recently mentioned Ferry's compilations in the context of music copying. Heather On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Chris Turner wrote: > There is more foolishness here regarding the compilations. They're not aimed at anyone here, and > more fool you if you shell out on them. Compilations are intended to appeal to mass markets and > new audiences - A housewife looking for a few songs from her youth, a kid hearing Franz Ferdinand > naming Roxy as an influence might pick up a #6.99 compilation and understand what we're on about. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:13:32 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) At 05.29 -0700 04-09-10, Joel Hurd wrote: >How do you know about his constant working on material? I got that impression when I talked to Mr Ferry. I think that since he is so slow, he puts a lot of effort into his work. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:27:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) > >How do you know about his constant working on material? > > I got that impression when I talked to Mr Ferry. I think that since > he is so slow, he puts a lot of effort into his work. I see. Nothing beats primary evidence from the proverbial horse's mouth. :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:24:23 +0000 From: "Tracy Connell" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) >and he will have a new album out next year. You may find this statement thrown back at you if the album doesn't appear next year! lol! Tracy :) _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:12:45 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) In a message dated 10/09/2004 15:02:46 GMT Daylight Time, tracyep@hotmail.com writes: You may find this statement thrown back at you if the album doesn't appear next year! lol! Tracy :) How many times have we heard news of a new album just round the corner? Don't hold you breath. J Just hold your nose. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:28:23 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) In a message dated 10/09/2004 13:21:43 GMT Daylight Time, roxyrama@yahoo.co.uk writes: a kid hearing Franz Ferdinand naming Roxy as an influence might pick up a #6.99 compilation and understand what we're on about. Actually in this day and age they are more likely to download a Roxy track off Kazza and its most likely gonna be from the latter period than any of the obscure stuff from the early years that actually influenced the band. And then they will wonder why any influence was cited in the first place. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:31:10 -0700 From: helchat@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard I also have been on and off since 98 and remember some of the other members back then (including the illustrious Vapor). Pasi, are you still out there?? Remember the "album" "Pastiche"? Helene Heather Marie Buch wrote: Fair enough, I just couldn't resist the opportunity to talk about my favorite subject! ;-) Also I pine for the days of Vapor..... ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:14 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Re: Scissor Sisters In a message dated 10/09/2004 09:09:20 GMT Daylight Time, therese.odonnell@strath.ac.uk writes: EJ never struck me as having a dark emotional depth in his music (I can be corrected) Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Rocket Man? I'm not sure how much emotion Ferry has in his vocal style. It always seemed cold and detached (and right for the songs). Just going by their sound, the Scissor Sisters seem to me to have a cleaner sound than Roxy ever did with more emphasis on piano hence the Elton connection. Elton John was always far more flamboyant than Roxy, (Dame Edna glasses, Donald Duck costumes etc) perhaps because, as a gay man, he could go futher than Ferry in terms of camping it up. I think SS veer into camp far more than Roxy did. Roxy's camp was seedy, dark and richly perverted while SS seems broader more 'Ooh Matron.' Which takes us back to Reg. Your argument is a persuasive one however, although I'm not so sure if SS where formed at the time of the NYC Roxy gigs of 2001. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:20:33 +0100 From: "Rob Whiteford" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) I guess we have a different perspective on this Chris. When fans John O'Brien and Jocelyn Fiske are unhappy - and other very "real" fans - it is complacent not to listen carefully. His last two albums didn;t stay in the charts very long at all - I would be interested to see any stats on album by album sales.Neither did anything since Boys and Girls for that matter. I enjoyed the ATGB tour more than an anything I've ever been to. I posted on here and raved about it. I spent lots of money taking the family to many of the shows. I have attended many since from Roxy reunion to the Frantic tour. I am not the only one who detects something missing in the recent stuff, especially the tour. Why does he speed up songs? Why is it a bit flat? And as far as the shows go I don;t give a monkeys about the setlist either, so long as we get some effort in return for our efforts in going. Reading the reviews of the forest concerts he did manage I think it may well have literally hundreds of people having a less than great time. I hope Bryans health is ok - I still think it's pretty odd that there was no real apology for the cancelled shows. It is also not necessary to release compliations at the rate he does to enable a potential new listener to hear his work. I don;t mind a few compilations, a couple a decade, but I do feel the sheer number of them may cause him to be seen as damaging to him. Ferrys best bet of sustaining a career is to write new and interesting material, tour it - and then exploit his back catalogue. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Turner" To: "Rob Whiteford" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) > I do think that the general tone of the conversation in Avalon is unbalanced, in its unceasing > criticism of Ferry. Surely I'm not the only person who has enjoyed the last few years? > > His last two albums were critical and commercial successes (Virgin have 3 people assigned to him > which indicates a rekindled interest on their part), and he will have a new album out next year. A > sequence of three years between albums, given the difficult artistic processes involved, seems > entirely reasonable for a man fewer than 400 days from his 60th birthday. Don't infer any lack of > effort from his reluctance to release albums. He really is constantly working on material. It's > just that his style of working, and attention to detail, demand time. > > His touring gives as many people as possible the chance to see him live, not something we can say > of long periods of his career. He has repeatedly said that he will continue to tour in the future. > At concerts I don't hear groups of people moaning about the setlist, I hear hundreds of people > having a good time. They may not know who played the bongos on As The World Turns, but the point > is they dont have to. The lack of change in the setlist will not affect 98% of the audience, and > in any case let's put the lie to that nonsense. Saying you wouldn't go to a concert in case you > hear the same songs is as idiotic as saying you'll throw your albums away because you've heard > them before. I've been to many gigs with a similar setlist, but I've never been to two gigs that > were the same. > > There is more foolishness here regarding the compilations. They're not aimed at anyone here, and > more fool you if you shell out on them. Compilations are intended to appeal to mass markets and > new audiences - A housewife looking for a few songs from her youth, a kid hearing Franz Ferdinand > naming Roxy as an influence might pick up a #6.99 compilation and understand what we're on about. > > If Ferry is to sustain a commercial career, he has to maintain a broader appeal than the 300 > inhabitants of Avalon, and that means live appearances, TV, Miss World, Selfridges et al. That's > how he maintains his visibility, and his income. The good burghers of Avalon wouldn't fill one > quarter of the smallest venue on his tour, and our combined sales wouldn't buy him dinner for a > week. > > Step back and have a look. We are lucky that BF is still relevant, available and trying to make > good music after 32 years in the business. It wouldn't hurt to hear that in here once in a while. > > Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:54:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Aleks Kocan Subject: [AVALON] Ferry and Fashion Short pre-show article about Bryan's headline slot at Manchester's Bridgewater Hall tonight... http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/entertainment/music/s/129/129921_why_bryan_is_still_one_of_pops_style_kings.html Anyone from the list going to this? Aleks _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:08:01 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard At 07.31 -0700 04-09-10, helchat@earthlink.net wrote: >I also have been on and off since 98 and remember some of the other >members back then (including the illustrious Vapor). Pasi, are you >still out there?? The illustrious JVapor's last posting was Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:44:55 EST. Pasi Toivo posted this year. >Remember the "album" "Pastiche"? No, but was that not a joke? - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:39:30 EDT From: JVapor7@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] One Lizard, Alive My Dear, DEAR Mrs. Butch, I am still here, monitoring as usual. I have been busy as an International 3D Photographer, and alas, cannot contribute to public forums at this time. You may see some of my recent work--albeit non 3D, rather pedestrian, and regrettably hippie-related (favor for a friend)--in the recent Neil Diamond biography, "Shakey." How is our little one? The father still doesn't know? I do hope you took my advice on the breast feeding. All the Best, Sincerely, Etc, VAPOR inc ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:40:50 EDT From: JVapor7@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Apologies That was an Extremely Private response. My apologies for the misfire, the ol' finger ain't what it was at my advanced age. JV ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:49:25 +0200 From: "opd" Subject: [AVALON] 6PM-review There's an excellent review of 6PM in the Norwegian newspaper Bergens Tidende. (Aug 24th). http://bt.no/kultur/musikk/article283269 It gets 5 out of 6 on "the dice" from the reviewer, and 6 out of 6 from the readers. NOT BAD!? If this has been mentioned before, I hope you can excuse me, since I've been away for the last 7 weeks. If you need a translation of the norwegian words, please tell me. Cheers Ole ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:10:54 EDT From: STARGROUPIE13@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Digest member saying "Hi" In a message dated 9/10/2004 4:32:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org writes: > From: Colleen Matan > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 KWil632057@aol.com wrote: > > >Is there anyway of finding out how many people are currently on the list? > > At the moment there are 187 folks on the talk list and 149 on the digest. > I've been lurking here for about a year. I know a few of you (from other groups) and just wanted to say "hello" and let you know I enjoy reading the Avalon digest. It's interesting to read the posts of the extreme hardcore, the mildly interested fan and everything in between. Without commenting on your numbers, I think you have a good BALANCE of members and it's always nice to see familiar faces. Everything in between member, ~Star~ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:15:55 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] 6PM-review At 19.49 +0200 04-09-10, opd wrote: >If you need a translation of the norwegian words, please tell me. No problemo for me. Click on Klikk her for e gi din karakter and then on the six dice and click Stem to keep the vote at 6. and wow, a message from JVapor7. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:26:54 +0200 From: "opd" Subject: [AVALON] Not innovative ? I understand that there has been a discussion going on about Ferry being over the top or not. 2 years ago he released Frantic, which I think is an excellent record. (Yes, many titles were on Alphaville, but that wasn't released,was it, only available illegal as it was?) I find 6 of Bryan's compositions first class. Some of them are so typical Ferry, while others are more unusual for him, which I find very interesting. Being 57 (as he was back then) and still being able to deliever is just great. I don't like his covers that well on Frantic, though. IMHO only "In your mind" , "The bride stripped bare" and "Mamouna" can compete with "Frantic". ....but then again, I would have preferred a new Roxy album. I really think he'll give us another great record the next time as well. Cheers, and all the best to all of you Ole np "6PM", just wonderful!!!! ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:30:12 +0100 From: "Thomas Wallace" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Turner" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Death of a Lounge Lizard (possible misdiagnosis) >. Don't infer any lack of effort from his reluctance to release albums. He really is constantly working on material. It's > just that his style of working, and attention to detail, demand time. Is that why "Frantic" contained so much old material? Lets be honest about this "Frantic" was not the most complex album that Ferry has put out, if his next one is anything similar then the question will be why did this take so long. > In November last year the figures were 199 and 167 respectively. This is the first year in Avalon's history when the > membership has fallen. I attribute this to a handful of self-styled 'real fans' who continually criticise every minute aspect of > Ferry's life and career, and who are neither representative of Avalon's membership, or Ferry's broader fanbase. So what is a "real fan"? Is it someone who has been a Roxy/Ferry fan since 1972? Is it someone who has spent thousands of pounds over the last 32 years collecting virtually everything the could connected with Roxy/Ferry? Is it someone who is willing to speak freely when a piece of work or an on going situation is less than what should be expected? Is it someone who thinks everything that has been produced by Roxy/Ferry over the last 32 years is brilliant and above realistic criticism? I know a fair amount of people who are Roxy/Ferry fans who are not on the internet and believe me the criticisms that have been voiced on this list over the last 12 months are definitely representative of their views as well. If we do finally get a new album I just hope that it will be "new", and not a patchwork of material going back eight years. Tom. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:18:03 +0200 From: "Charly" Subject: [AVALON] FULL OF HOPE I read so many sad and pessimistic emails these past few days from so many dear friends that me and my terrific english have decided to send a message to say : THERE IS A GOOD REASON AND EVEN EVIDENCES (!) TO BE FULL OF HOPE ABOUT FERRY'S CAREER. The deep reason is Ferry has - almost - never used a wide range of how writing a song ! Wide like an ocean which Ferry has not really sailed yet. Fact Nb 1. Take any of your favorite Ferry's song. Listen to it at the beginning, in the middle, at the end. You don't hear something really different. Don't you. The band, the orchestration are made for accompanying Ferry. I would say Ferry writes songs as a hit song writer/singer. With the art of summarize in 3 or 4 minutes an atmosphere, a scene. Catch the audience first and keep it. These kind of songs are like pictures. Hundreds of artists write in the same way. Fact Nb 2. Some artists still write music in a "very classical way". The game here is superposing different melodic lines, voices. It is very close to classical music, and of course Bach's "Art of Fugue". Few examples to see what I mean : P.Manzanera : 'Listen Now". First drums and bass to set up the beat and then the harmony with chords at the keyboard. Then first vocal line. Then a second vocal line above. Then a third vocal line above the two others. The middle of the song is sung by two voices with either the guitar or the sax behind playing a consistent melodic line. And the first final - before the song cooled it down-, two different vocal lines (same at the beginning) plus sax and guitar. 4 voices + background. These kind of song is in motion. It's not a picture anymore but a movie. It is even hard for the brain to listen to it from anywhere. You must listen from the beginning otherwise you can not understand the music and all the more so appreciate it. Other examples. B.Eno : Miss Shapiro with several guitar lines all together. Or even "Here come the warm jets" with just the drums coming progressively and shifting the colour of the song. Paul Mac Cartney often writes music this way. "Silly Love song" is a good example. Chicago at the beginning. Ferry almost never used this way of writing songs. But... Fact Nb3 The song "I though" cosigned Ferry/Eno is writen that way. (At the lesser degree Fool for Love) And it is exactly the musical road I would appreciate Ferry to enter. "I though" begins with an almost ridiculous accompaniment. Then instruments are coming over and over. At the end it is like a firework, specially the version on stage closing with a marvellous guitar part at the end. But even here, I beleive Ferry and his band have may be missed something. The song is so well balanced at that moment that something exceptional, magical, could have been done. When I listen to this guitar solo I can not help thinking of the guitar duet in Hotel California. Something better was possible here with the marvellous musicians surrounding Ferry : it could have been guitar+guitar or guitar+violin or sax+harmonica or piano-guitar. Well, lots of possibilities. Lot of pleasure. This song closes the Frantic album and some Frantic concerts : so I can see an omen for a new Ferry. Charly ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V9 #228 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest