From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V9 #83 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Sunday, March 28 2004 Volume 09 : Number 083 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? ["Stephen Scott" ] Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers [KWil632057@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers [Go2Sweeney@aol.com] [AVALON] elton john [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Bovyn?= ] [AVALON] Jane and Bryan ["Kari Solberg" ] [AVALON] Non-writing artists ["Tracy Connell" ] RE: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? ["Tracy Connell" ] Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers ["Tracy Connell" ] Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers [Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Friends, I have been underwhelmed by the lack of response to my earlier post regarding nominating Our Bryan for an UK Honour. Nobody has replied to me at all to support or even derry my efforts (which I kind of expected really), nor has anyone answered my question about BF's management company. So, I take it that I have no supporters then or do I? Last chance to dance. Cheers the noo Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Scott To: avalon@smoe.org Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Hey, Hey! I'm not a huge fan of the Honours System but if Ray Davies can get one, surely "War Bryan" can have one? Maybe Bryan would accept, maybe he wouldn't but what the hey! So, I've got the official forms to nominate but I need some help. a) Unless anyone knows Bryan home address(??!!), is his Management Company Riverman or Opal? Or A.N. Other? b) I also need at least 2 letters of endorsement from people (preferably from the UK) who are and I quote "familiar with the nominees services" Please feel free to mail me off list for my address to send them to. Cheers the noo! Stevie p.s. It says in the guidance notes that "The nominee should not be informed that they have been nominated etc." So Hush Hush! ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Atterbom To: avalon@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:08 PM Subject: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Time for Sir Bryan soon? http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004122246,00.html I kinda like sir Bryan Ferry CBE. -- Daniel _________________________________________________________________________ __ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:43:05 EST From: JFROXY@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Of course BF should be Knighted, but I doubt if he will, he has too many disadvantages, he's not a drug addict, he doesn't have a drink problem, and most importantly, he's not gay. A prime example of this is the stomach churning, flagrant, disgusting elton john, he is all of the above (plus short arsed, ugly, specky and baldy) and he managed to get a Knighthood. As the Americans would say..."go figure." n.p. "We are the Champions" :P ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:18:54 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan or Is JF in the closet? 'and most importantly, he's not gay.A prime example of this is the stomach churning, flagrant, disgusting elton john, he is all of the above (plus short arsed, ugly, specky and baldy) and he managed to get a Knighthood.' Ooooh JF, how come you're not Sir JF then? It's amazing in this day and age to see stone age, Alf Garnett (Archie Bunker for our US freinds) style views in full flow. Your blantant stupidity speaks volumes, exposing you for the pratt you are. J n/p Killer Queen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:22:02 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? At 08.43 -0500 04-03-28, JFROXY@aol.com wrote: >Of course BF should be Knighted, but I doubt if he will, he has too many >disadvantages, he's not a drug addict, he doesn't have a drink >problem, and most >importantly, he's not gay. A prime example of this is the stomach churning, >flagrant, disgusting elton john, he is all of the above (plus short >arsed, ugly, >specky and baldy) and he managed to get a Knighthood. >As the Americans would say..."go figure." No, his friendship with HRH Diana helped. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan or Is JF in the closet? Unfortunately, JFROXY lives only for angry responses and the confirmation that he has hit the mark. While it's probably only polite of us to acknowledge all of his hard work (as I am sure he spends days, and possibly weeks, crafting his comments), the best way to make sure he ceases such behavior is to completely shun him. And yes, his comments are deliberately rude and thoughtless, but if you consider the source, you may also come to the conclusion that he's not someone whose opinions in these matters--and in others as well--matters at all. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:34:01 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? In a message dated 28/03/2004 15:23:59 GMT Standard Time, daniel.atterbom@odata.se writes: No, his friendship with HRH Diana helped. - -- Daniel Well I doubt friendship with Diana had much to do with it (she's not a popular name with the Royals). How about a massive musical contribution, four decades of hits and plenty of work for charity? J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:52:09 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Ummm Elton John famously writes with Bernie Taupin (lyrics) doesn't he? Writing hardly is the be all and end all though....Presley and Sinatra never wrote their own stuff, and they are regarded as rather good? J In a message dated 28/03/2004 15:48:03 GMT Standard Time, mandar.charles@wanadoo.fr writes: Do you still beleive Elton John writes his songs himself ? And that charity is not a business in show-biz ? Charly > popular name with the Royals). How about a massive musical contribution, four > decades of hits and plenty of work for charity? > J > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:01:49 +0200 From: "Charly" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan or Is JF in the closet? Collen wrote > the best way to make sure he ceases such behavior is to completely shun him. I don't beleive there is any real benefit to discuss with someone who has already the same opinion as you ? Charly ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:03:05 +0200 From: "Charly" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Do you still beleive Elton John writes his songs himself ? And that charity is not a business in show-biz ? Charly > popular name with the Royals). How about a massive musical contribution, four > decades of hits and plenty of work for charity? > J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:06:58 EST From: Go2Sweeney@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? In a message dated 28/03/2004 16:00:36 GMT Standard Time, KWil632057@aol.com writes: Ummm Elton John famously writes with Bernie Taupin (lyrics) doesn't he? Writing hardly is the be all and end all though....Presley and Sinatra never wrote their own stuff, and they are regarded as rather good? Well, I personally think it is important for people to write their own music. IMO there are numerous bands out there nowadays who are not creative whatsoever but have to bring out cover versions of well known songs. Hardly an incitement for me to go out to buy their music. Yes, Presley and Sinatra are regarded as rather good, but they were just performers, not creative. For me for someone to be an artist, they actually have to create something, which is what a lot of chart bands nowadays do not do. Cheers, Goodie ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:26:51 +0200 From: "Charly" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? Goodie wrote > I personally think it is important for people to write their own music. IMO > there are numerous bands out there nowadays who are not creative whatsoever > but have to bring out cover versions of well known songs. Hardly an incitement > for me to go out to buy their music. Yes, Presley and Sinatra are regarded as > rather good, but they were just performers, not creative. For me for someone > to be an artist, they actually have to create something To stress on this opinion, we can say that Presley, Sinatra and "only performers" (even if they are brillant) could have been somebody else. They are changeable. Let's take an obvious example : F.Chopin is (was, will be till the end of times) appreciate for his creation and his originality and not because he was a good pianist. There are at the present moment few dozen of people able to play his masterpiece and most of them will remain unknowed. But what I was meaning in my previous email is that, more then likely, some "artists" pay to sign songs writen by someone else ! Because a "rather good song" will be a hit if it is sung by a famous artist rather by an anonymous. When a music company has invested in marketing operations to sell an 'artist' they want the cash return. It's busine$$ ! Charly ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:31:15 -0600 From: "Paula Brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers Ummm Elton John famously writes with Bernie Taupin (lyrics) doesn't he? Writing hardly is the be all and end all though....Presley and Sinatra never wrote their own stuff, and they are regarded as rather good? I don't mark down fifties (and prior) artists for not writing their own music. The industry evolved and at that time, big singers sprung from being entertainers and I just don't think the media (radio) had been around long enough for the potential entertainers/song writer/singers who lay dormant all over the world to surface. They came out in droves in the great music expansion of the sixties, which process widespread use of television hastened. So I have every respect for nonwriting entertainers from that era, including Presely, who made each song his, Sinatra and Patsy Cline. That being said, I agree with you, Goodie. I, too, have little respect today for someone who doesn't do their own stuff! Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:44:48 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers In a message dated 28/03/2004 17:38:45 GMT Standard Time, lostribe@msn.com writes: I, too, have little respect today for someone who doesn't do their own stuff! But surely if you are a talented interpretor of a song but don't have song writing talent there's nothing wrong with singing somebody else's work? Conversely, I'm sure there are lots of songwriters who can't actually sing and are glad there are singers willing to give their work an airing. J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:56:19 EST From: Go2Sweeney@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers In a message dated 28/03/2004 17:46:50 GMT Standard Time, KWil632057@aol.com writes: But surely if you are a talented interpretor of a song but don't have song writing talent there's nothing wrong with singing somebody else's work? Conversely, I'm sure there are lots of songwriters who can't actually sing and are glad there are singers willing to give their work an airing. The stress is on talent! What do we get? Stars in their eyes, boy bands, girl bands, whatever bands, whatever these other talent shows are called, which all bore me to tears. Okay, they get their 15 minutes but will not last, whereas real artists that actually create their own work will last (and have lasted). I bet in ten years, if someone says "Gareth Gates", people will say "who on earth is that?", but the likes of VU, Roxy Music, Stones, Beatles, and others will still be known. Cheers, Goodie ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:58:52 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Bovyn?= Subject: [AVALON] elton john I'm an Elton John fan for over 10 years. I've read loads about him and I own every cd. I wasn't intending to respond on the first reaction (A prime example of this is the stomach churning, >flagrant, disgusting elton john,) because people judge him very quickly without knowing all of it. But more people react to it, so I'll give my opinion. I don't think his relationship with Diana has helped him to be knighted. Diana wasn't that popular with the royals... He also received a CBE or whatever it's called before Diana died. (yes he once danced with the queen, rock around the clock, maybe that helped, jeezes) Elton John has had a top 40 hit every year for over 23 years. (which is more than Elvis) In the seventies 2% of the record sales were his. He gives loads of money to charity (and does loads of it too) . He has his own Elton John AIDS foundation in the USA and in the UK. All the royalties from every single he releases goes to the foundation. Every year he sells his huge collection of clothes in the UK and in the USA, all the money goes to... He still writes his music by himself with Bernie Taupin who does the lyrics. (he writes songs in 30 minutes), he writes music for several musicals (Aida, the lion king, billy elliot, the vampire lestat), writes music for movies (lion king, the muse, el dorado, gnomeo and juliet) And of course still makes records. So I don't think that he 'buys' his songs. He tours all the time (check his site) solo, with band, with billy joel, in vegas.. All together I consider Elton John as one of the most important artists in the UK (and even world) He's not a one hit wonder, and writes all his songs by himself. He is still popular. About the alcohol abuse and drugs addiction. In 1990 he got completely sober. Look at all the artists, who DID NOT take drugs?? (Bryan ferry also did take drugs) The reason why John got addicted is because he has a very low self image, loads of complexes about his weight....and so on. plus short >arsed, ugly, >specky and baldy I know society only likes beautiful people, but it's sad to think that 'ugly' people (in your eyes) are not talented or good. he's not gay Another stupid reason. Hope this helps, at least I let a bit steam off.. Herci (any other questions, shoot!) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:41:29 -0600 From: "Paula Brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers I think it's fine that someone can do someone else's good songs, obviously, but it's too bad that it's used mainly to elevate "artists" such as Jessica Simpson. Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:40:16 +0200 From: "Kari Solberg" Subject: [AVALON] Jane and Bryan >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:47:54 +0000 (GMT) >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?jeanne=20louise?= > >Subject: [AVALON] Jane and Bryan >The Guardian had a review of Jane Birkin cd >Rendez-Vous: >"its indisputable centrepiece is an electronically >enhanced version of Roxy Music's In Every Dreamhome a >Heartache.Bryan Ferry sings the way faded velvet >looks,and to hear Birkin sing "deluxe and >delightful"(she's describibg an inflatable sex doll)is >to be utterly devastated." You can listen for 29 secs here: http://www.janebirkin.net/uk/music_rendez_1.html Kari ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:46:49 +0000 From: "Tracy Connell" Subject: [AVALON] Non-writing artists Yes, Presley and Sinatra are regarded as >rather good, but they were just performers, not creative. For me for >someone >to be an artist, they actually have to create something, which is what a >lot >of chart bands nowadays do not do. As you might expect, I disagree. At the time Elvis Presley was starting out there was a wide segregation between 'black' and 'white' music. The radio stations played either black singers or white singers, but not both. Sam Philips at Sun Recording studios in memphis was loking for a 'white boy with a black voice'. This he found in Elvis Presley. Elvis brought black music to the whites and created a storm! This year marks the 50th anniversary of rock 'n' roll. And whilst we may debate forever where rock 'n' roll started, they are marking this from the first record Elvis recorded (That's all right) on 5 July 1954. Both Elvis and Sinatra made songs their own, and you can't tell me that anyone else in the world could have acheived what they did. To say that they are not creative, they had to be creative to have such distinct styles and to have the impact that they did. You can't generalise on something like this. America in the 1950s was enormously different to now. Why should someone write their own songs if they can make a song their own in such a way. Even if you are not an Elvis fan, you have to acknowledge the impact he has had in music and popular culture. How many singers will have 4 year old fans a quarter of a century after they have died? Not Many! Do you think there will be little kids discovering Roxy Music in 30/40 years time? Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Had to vent my 2c worth! : ) Take care Tracy _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:51:10 +0000 From: "Tracy Connell" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? >Of course BF should be Knighted, but I doubt if he will, he has too many >disadvantages, he's not a drug addict, he doesn't have a drink problem, and >most >importantly, he's not gay. I don't believe Sir Paul McCartney was any of those things. : ) Tracy _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:58:22 EST From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] elton john All together I consider Elton John as one of the most important artists in the UK (and even world) He's not a one hit wonder, and writes all his songs by himself. He is still popular. And influential - as witnessed by the Scissors Sisters offering, which apart from a couple of blatant piano sections (which I took as a Roxy homage) are the New Elton John and most definitely NOT the new Roxy. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Paula Brown wrote: > I think it's fine that someone can do someone else's good songs, obviously, > but it's too bad that it's used mainly to elevate "artists" such as Jessica > Simpson. but that's what pop music has always been about--pop music is geared toward teenagers. Always has been, always will. To rail against that and to say that no one who doesn't write his/her songs aren't worthy of our attention is, to me, a very limiting snobbery. Do you require actors to write all of their own lines? Or screenwriters to act? Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:08:51 +0000 From: "Tracy Connell" Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers >I think it's fine that someone can do someone else's good songs, obviously, >but it's too bad that it's used mainly to elevate "artists" such as Jessica >Simpson. Who? : ) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:14:46 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] elton john - --- Jocelynfiske@aol.com wrote: > And influential - as witnessed by the Scissors Sisters offering, > which apart > from a couple of blatant piano sections (which I took as a Roxy > homage) are most definitely NOT the new Roxy. On the Scissor Sisters, there's an article in THE SUNDAY TIMES' newspaper's Style supplement that mentions the SS and Roxy Music connection. . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers - --- Go2Sweeney@aol.com wrote: > The stress is on talent! What do we get? Stars in their eyes, boy > bands, girl bands, whatever bands, whatever these other talent > shows are called, which all bore me to tears. Okay, they get their > 15 minutes but will not last, whereas real artists that actually > create their own work will last (and have lasted). I bet in ten > years, if someone says "Gareth Gates", people will say "who > on earth is that?", but the likes of VU, Roxy Music, Stones, > Beatles, and others will still be known. An aside: I personally rate 'music creators who perform' a good few notches above 'just music performers'. On the subject of cover singers/non-songwriting singers, I say there are distinct types of these. There are the ones with distinctly average voices and ones with exceptionally good voices. Another facet is the singer who 'adds nothing' to the song they sing and is not really involved with which songs are chosen for them to cover, whereas another type of singer 'reinterprets' or adds their own feeling to the songs they carefully choose to cover. The best combination of such cover singers/non-writing singers is of course the exceptionally good voice who adds an insightful performance to their carefully chosen covers. - ---joel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:04:46 EST From: Go2Sweeney@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Non-writing artists In a message dated 28/03/2004 18:59:47 GMT Standard Time, tracyep@hotmail.com writes: "Even if you are not an Elvis fan, you have to acknowledge the impact he has had in music and popular culture. How many singers will have 4 year old fans a quarter of a century after they have died? Not Many! Do you think there will be little kids discovering Roxy Music in 30/40 years time?" I am not disputing the impact Elvis had on people, all I am saying that he is not an artist in the strict sense of the word, that's all. An artist creates something. Elvis Presley did not create (unless he wrote his own songs, I don't know, and I would stand to be corrected). Of course he did have an impact, and has an impact. Actors also have impacts, but they are not artists. From the Thesaurus: Entry: artist Function: noun Definition: creator Synonyms: artisan, artiste, authority, composer, craftsman, creator, expert, handicraftsman, inventor, painter, virtuoso, whiz So maybe I'm wrong, let's call Elvis a whiz. Cheers, Goodie ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] Pop-music / nonwriting entertainers If I was 10 now, and in 20 years time looking back, I'd feel overwhelmingly shortchanged with the pop music of my youth, when compared to the pop fortunes of 10 year olds in the 60s/70s/80s. > > I think it's fine that someone can do someone else's good songs, > > obviously, but it's too bad that it's used mainly to elevate > > "artists" such as Jessica Simpson. > > but that's what pop music has always been about--pop music is geared > toward teenagers. Always has been, always will. I disagree about pop music having always been geared towards teens. Pop music should be, and was, something to be enjoyed by all generations. It is a rather recent trend (from the early 90's) (driven by clinical, nay cynical, demographics-obsessed music marketeers) to drive the chart/pop music towards younger and younger audiences. Using the UK as an example, I'd imagine that saying that the bulk of chart pop music-buying public are pre-teen/early teenage girls would be correct. Easily impressed and easily led with proportionally more discretionary spending power than their equivalent age groups of generations past. Given that, it's no wonder that the corporate pop (poop?) producers have honed their acts to target that narrow demographic. It's just a shame that it largely seems to be to the exclusion of other pop-loving age groups. Pop-ular music shouldn't be a dirty word. And given some balance, commercial pop shouldn't be a dirty term either. But it's a certain balance that has been lost. If you're not aged 9-14 and you're not reading the latest 14-17 ( note the age discrepancy :-P ) girl magazines, then these days the world of pop, the world of the hit tune, and the world of the chart countdown don't want to know about you. The modern pop corporate moguls saw this, and saw that it was good. But it is not good. The 'balance' I mention is a balance of genres, of ages, of the easy music, of the daring music, of pop chart music that rises as well as falls, and of course of the bad and the good. It makes for an interesting mix, a weekly draw for all. Strange as it seems, a certain amount of the bad (read: boybands, 'idols') is needed. But when the bad looms disproportionately large (which it has done for a number of years), then something has gone terribly wrong. Another peculiar trend is that many of the pop 'stars', from manufactured boybands/girl-groups and from the multitude of competition karaoke TV shows (which revel in safeness and mediocrity), is that these pop 'idols' are in many cases so very young and worldly unwise. It's a peculiar sight to see them singing about the slings and arrows of travelling down life's long road. It's a persuasion that rings hollow. Where are the true pop stars (long since out of their diapers) to whom which teens can aspire to, that the adults can relate and reflect to, and that the grandparents can still listen in wonder to this new pop sound? Alas, it's gone, or at least the danger in pop is rare these days. For the moment, at least, the music powers-that-be have overshaken their product, added too much idol/boyband water, and in the process have diluted and taken the fizz out of pop. - ---just my 2 dollars . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:48:30 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Pop-music / nonwriting entertainers On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Joel Hurd wrote: > > but that's what pop music has always been about--pop music is geared > > toward teenagers. Always has been, always will. > > I disagree about pop music having always been geared towards teens. > Pop music should be, and was, something to be enjoyed by all > generations. > > It is a rather recent trend (from the early 90's) (driven by clinical, > nay cynical, demographics-obsessed music marketeers) to drive the > chart/pop music towards younger and younger audiences. Using the UK Actually, it's not. Pat Boone, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, the Beatles, etc., were geared toward teenagers. > generations past. Given that, it's no wonder that the corporate pop > (poop?) producers have honed their acts to target that narrow > demographic. That's nothing new, either. The Partridge Family, anyone? The Bay City Rollers? > But it's a certain balance that has been lost. If you're not aged > 9-14 and you're not reading the latest 14-17 ( note the age > discrepancy :-P ) girl magazines, then these days the world of pop, > the world of the hit tune, and the world of the chart countdown > don't want to know about you. The modern pop corporate moguls saw > this, and saw that it was good. Again, you're creating a past that never was. > Another peculiar trend is that many of the pop 'stars', from > manufactured boybands/girl-groups and from the multitude of > competition karaoke TV shows (which revel in safeness and mediocrity), > is that these pop 'idols' are in many cases so very young and worldly > unwise. It's a peculiar sight to see them singing about the slings > and arrows of travelling down life's long road. It's a persuasion that Again, this is nothing new. > rings hollow. Where are the true pop stars (long since out of their > diapers) to whom which teens can aspire to, that the adults can > relate and reflect to, and that the grandparents can still listen > in wonder to this new pop sound? Alas, it's gone, or at least the > danger in pop is rare these days. When was that ever the case across the board? Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:54:02 -0600 (CST) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Re: This, that,& whatever I don't believe people get knighted for their looks. Contributions they've done!!!! As for who is an artist or isn't just because they don't write their own material!!! The best songs written are from writers. So many here have mentioned even how Bryan covers so & so's song well. And that is art just as quilt making,dancing, etc. etc.it all falls under art.A persons unique talent. --Songs are especially written for someone. --"My Way" written by Paul Anka for Sinatra. Others have sang it but it is still Sinatra's unique style that makes it his, no matter who else tries it. We all have a bit of artistic abilities in some shape or form. I know I do!!!! Always, Marlana ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:00:59 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: This, that,& whatever In a message dated 28/03/2004 20:58:56 GMT Standard Time, MarlanaK@webtv.net writes: The best songs written are from writers. Always nice to hear such sharp technical insight! ;0) J ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Hurd Subject: Re: [AVALON] Pop-music / nonwriting entertainers > > It is a rather recent trend (from the early 90's) (driven by > > clinical, nay cynical, demographics-obsessed music marketeers) > > to drive the chart/pop music towards younger and younger > > audiences. > Actually, it's not. Pat Boone, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, the > Beatles, etc., were geared toward teenagers. The distinction is twofold. The targets are no longer young adults and teenagers, it's now teenagers and pre-teens. And secondly, pop, as commercial as always (whether back then or now), the machine today is much more refined and cutthroat. The modern machine churns out tunes that only find favor with the very young, whereas the machine of old turned out stuff that additionally appealed to older people too. > > generations past. Given that, it's no wonder that the corporate > > pop (poop?) producers have honed their acts to target that narrow > > demographic. > That's nothing new, either. The Partridge Family, anyone? The Bay > City Rollers? The point being that the marketeers being many evolutions more clinical and professional, and the honing being a much more narrow (almost to a science) targetting. > > Another peculiar trend is that many of the pop 'stars', from > > manufactured boybands/girl-groups and from the multitude of > > competition karaoke TV shows (which revel in safeness and > > mediocrity), is that these pop 'idols' are in many cases so very > > young and worldly unwise. It's a peculiar sight to see them > > singing about the slings and arrows of travelling down life's > > long road. > Again, this is nothing new. The point being that disproportionate prevalence of this type of pop now. > > Where are the true pop stars (long since out of their diapers) > > to whom which teens can aspire to, that the adults can relate and > > reflect to, and that the grandparents can still listen in wonder > > to this new pop sound? Alas, it's gone, or at least the danger in > > pop is rare these days. > When was that ever the case across the board? I wasn't saying that music should be a one-size-fits-all pair of gloves. The question I put was by way of contrast. . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:31:39 EST From: Jocelynfiske@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: This, that,& whatever I don't believe people get knighted for their looks. Of course they do - otherwise how do you count for Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber? HRH BlindBint ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:39:45 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] nonwriting entertainers At 13.06 -0500 04-03-28, Colleen Matan wrote: >but that's what pop music has always been about--pop music is geared >toward teenagers. Well, it depends a bit on one definition of pop music. A lot of acts that have been around for a while, Hall & Oates being a case in point, can make money out of releasing CD's towards a adult audience that don't sell as much as they used to, but give them a greater precentage. Is Hall & Oates, or Ferry's or Roxy Music's latest live album, pop music? I don't know. Give me your thought. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:42:44 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Time for Sir Bryan soon? At 09.34 -0500 04-03-28, KWil632057@aol.com wrote: >Daniel >Well I doubt friendship with Diana had much to do with it (she's not a >popular name with the Royals). How about a massive musical contribution, four >decades of hits and plenty of work for charity? I might be mistaken on this, but is it not the prime minister that make recommendations to the queen? Sir Elton etc were honored after Tony Blair's 1997 election victory, the Thatcher and Major administrations were not, in my memory, as keen on awarding knighthoods to popular musicians. - -- Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V9 #83 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest