From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V8 #193 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 08 : Number 193 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] RE: (AVALON) what the ...? ["Sjaak Versluis" ] Re: [AVALON] URL ?? [Go2Sweeney@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] URL ?? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Chris=20Turner?= ] [AVALON] Avalon SACD + Double live-cd [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole-Petter_Dr=F8nen] Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD [Aleks Kocan ] Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD [Colleen Matan ] SV: [AVALON] Avalon SACD [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole-Petter_Dr=F8nen?= ] [AVALON] Avalon SACD [OBrienFerry@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD [OBrienFerry@aol.com] [AVALON] Fwd: Fw: In memory of Caroline [MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.)] Re: [AVALON] Fwd: Fw: In memory of Caroline [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD - SAD CD [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD - SAD CD [Daniel Atterbom Subject: [AVALON] RE: (AVALON) what the ...? They are German television appearances (again!) 1. Virginia Plain (1973) (time 03:20) 2. Do The Strand (1973) (03:57) 3. All I Want Is You (1974) (02:49) audio + video tracks. Then there are 10 more audio tracks from different artsts like Jack Bruce, Leon Russell, Steve Marriott, Alexis Korner, Edgar Winter, Big Country, Steve Harley, Rick Wakeman and Doro Pesch & Warlock. Sjaak - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark shanahan" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: [AVALON] what the ...? > hey there: > > anyone know what the devil this is? > > http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008O31G/qid=1057776277/sr=1-3/r > ef=sr_1_2_3/702-1424249-0244866 > > release date 6.3.03 by 'studio pictures' - ?? > > anyone know anything about this? pic is obviously jobson-era roxy ... > > tia/ms > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at > http://www.mail2world.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:04:49 +0200 From: "Sjaak Versluis" Subject: [AVALON] URL ?? Can anyone give me the (new?) URL of our AVALON webside. I only get errors. Sjaak ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:15:48 EDT From: Go2Sweeney@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] URL ?? In a message dated 10/07/2003 09:58:34 GMT Daylight Time, sjaakversluis@hetnet.nl writes: > Can anyone give me the (new?) URL of our AVALON webside. > I only get errors. > That's right, only errors.... Goodie ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:22:22 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Chris=20Turner?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] URL ?? I'm afraid there is a problem with the website at the moment. My beloved hosts removed the site without reference to me, and I need to restore it from backup. This will happen shortly. I'll give the site a facelift at the same time. Thanks for your patience. Chris --- Sjaak Versluis wrote: > Can anyone give me the (new?) URL of our AVALON webside. > I only get errors. > > Sjaak > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:17:42 -0400 From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Avalon SACD I just bought the SACD of Avalon today and what a dissapointment it is, the sort of dissapointment Ferry/Roxy fans have grown to expect. I don't have an SACD palyer but as a collector I bought it for the new booklet with new liner notes and rare and unseen photos as stated in the press release. The only one photo I haven't seen is not very good, pixelated I think is the technical word. It looks as if it used to be the size of a postage stamp and has been increased in size on a scanner, you can almost count the squares on it.The liner notes are merely Rhett Davies & Bob clearmountain saying that Avalon is the sort of album that lends itself to this new medium. Ferry has been quoted a lot the last few years praising the fans and saying how their response and turning up everywhere was an inspiration to reform Roxy. Last year we had 4 shows cancelled some even later than the 11th hour much to the dissapointment of many fans not to mention the great expense and hassle they had getting there and getting good tickets. The same has happened this year with the Hyde Park fiasco. I am not saying that any if this was Ferry's fault and that I am sure he too was dissapointed in the shows being cancelled. There are times when it should be 'payback' time to his fans who are very loyal and patient. This re-master is one of those times that like many others is a missed opportunity. I would have liked to have seen Bryan, Phil & Andy take an afternoon of their time to talk about the making of Avalon, stories about the recording and talking abut writing the songs etc. I am sure this would have been an interesting insight and a nice 'extra' for the fans on the liner notes. There must be unseen pictures of Bryan, Phil & Andy in the studio at the mixing desk, Ferry at a microphone with headphones on doing his actual take for More than This or some other song, these are what I would call interesting extras to make the 18UK Pounds seem a good buy instead of a goodbye to my cash. I am sure an ordinary stereo version of the new version of Always Unknowing coul dhave been added so mere mortals like myself can hear it without having to buy all the latest hi fi gear. The box set was the same in 1995. I wrote to Virgin at the time with suggestions for the 4th CD suggesting putting on there all the stuff that was only previously available on vinyle. They more or less followed that list with the exception of 'For Your Pleasure Live' from the b-side of Both Ends Burning. I also suggested a track by track annotation of the songs with intersting anecdotes about writing and recording these songs. They mentioned this in the press release but in reality there were very few tracks mentioned anything we didn't know about them. I have to say that I will never loose the passion for this music that I have had for over 20 years, but the more I know about the people involved in it, the less I want to know about them. I am glad I can separate the music from the people making it as I would probably never play it again. Phil Manzanera & Paul Thompson have a more direct approach and get involved in their websites and know and see what the fans feel and think. Ferry was recently described as not being a 'hands off' sort of guy when it comes to his recorded output and wants control everything from his latest albums to releaseing archive recordings like the BBC sessions. His fans seem to be the only part of his career that he has a 'hands off' approach. Every time anything improves on the artist/fan relationship is usualy a reaction rather than an action. I think Ferry is so distant from what the fans want and feel and has no hands on approach to the fan/artist relationship that he probably asumes all is well. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:50:09 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] URL ?? I think the AVALON webside is down and has joined the great webside in the sky. Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:02:10 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole-Petter_Dr=F8nen?= Subject: [AVALON] Avalon SACD + Double live-cd Isn't this a little unfair,John? I understand that the lack of new photos and new info is disappointing for you. But this Avalon SACD contain Avalon REMIXED, doesn't it? It's in 5.1 surround? Isn't that the whole point of the release? To me that's very exciting. Is it really impossible to hear any differences on a normal CD-player, John? I think this is MUCH more interesting than all those best of's etc. that we've had recently The music is the most important thing after all, isn't it? ...and these should be "new" versions of familiar material! Well, I haven't had the chance to buy it yet. It was yesterday that I got my hands on the new double live-set. It has been impossible to find here on this island, so I had to buy it from Amazone. After hearing through it once, I must say that I disagree with many on the list. To me it sounds just great so far. Ole - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:17 PM Subject: [AVALON] Avalon SACD > I just bought the SACD of Avalon today and what a dissapointment it is, the sort of dissapointment Ferry/Roxy fans have grown to expect. I don't have an SACD palyer but as a collector I bought it for the new booklet with new liner notes and rare and unseen photos as stated in the press release. The only one photo I haven't seen is not very good, pixelated I think is the technical word. It looks as if it used to be the size of a postage stamp and has been increased in size on a scanner, you can almost count the squares on it.The liner notes are merely Rhett Davies & Bob clearmountain saying that Avalon is the sort of album that lends itself to this new medium. > Ferry has been quoted a lot the last few years praising the fans and saying how their response and turning up everywhere was an inspiration to reform Roxy. Last year we had 4 shows cancelled some even later than the 11th hour much to the dissapointment of many fans not to mention the great expense and hassle they had getting there and getting good tickets. The same has happened this year with the Hyde Park fiasco. I am not saying that any if this was Ferry's fault and that I am sure he too was dissapointed in the shows being cancelled. > There are times when it should be 'payback' time to his fans who are very loyal and patient. This re-master is one of those times that like many others is a missed opportunity. I would have liked to have seen Bryan, Phil & Andy take an afternoon of their time to talk about the making of Avalon, stories about the recording and talking abut writing the songs etc. I am sure this would have been an interesting insight and a nice 'extra' for the fans on the liner notes. There must be unseen pictures of Bryan, Phil & Andy in the studio at the mixing desk, Ferry at a microphone with headphones on doing his actual take for More than This or some other song, these are what I would call interesting extras to make the 18UK Pounds seem a good buy instead of a goodbye to my cash. I am sure an ordinary stereo version of the new version of Always Unknowing coul dhave been added so mere mortals like myself can hear it without having to buy all the latest hi fi gear. > The box set was the same in 1995. I wrote to Virgin at the time with suggestions for the 4th CD suggesting putting on there all the stuff that was only previously available on vinyle. They more or less followed that list with the exception of 'For Your Pleasure Live' from the b-side of Both Ends Burning. I also suggested a track by track annotation of the songs with intersting anecdotes about writing and recording these songs. They mentioned this in the press release but in reality there were very few tracks mentioned anything we didn't know about them. > I have to say that I will never loose the passion for this music that I have had for over 20 years, but the more I know about the people involved in it, the less I want to know about them. I am glad I can separate the music from the people making it as I would probably never play it again. > Phil Manzanera & Paul Thompson have a more direct approach and get involved in their websites and know and see what the fans feel and think. Ferry was recently described as not being a 'hands off' sort of guy when it comes to his recorded output and wants control everything from his latest albums to releaseing archive recordings like the BBC sessions. His fans seem to be the only part of his career that he has a 'hands off' approach. > Every time anything improves on the artist/fan relationship is usualy a reaction rather than an action. I think Ferry is so distant from what the fans want and feel and has no hands on approach to the fan/artist relationship that he probably asumes all is well. > J.O'B. > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:29:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Aleks Kocan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD wrote: > > I just bought the SACD of Avalon today and what a > dissapointment it is, the sort of dissapointment > Ferry/Roxy fans have grown to expect. - --- Ole-Petter_Drxnen wrote: > But this Avalon SACD contain Avalon REMIXED, doesn't > it? It's in 5.1 surround? > Isn't that the whole point of the release? This does seem to be part of the idea. I don't know how many people will have SACD players or whatever though. I also suspect that Ferry wouldn't have much to do with the release. I'd like to think that if he was heavily involved then the finished package may have been quite different. It seems like another way of making cash by the record company, although who knows how many people will buy the SACD version. On the plus side for Bryan, his cancelled concerts have been rescheuled, which is giving something to the fans. To me the remasters etc.. are not really "new" versions of the albums, they are the same tracks adjusted in different ways. Wonder how many variants of "Avalon" have been released must be five or six. Sometimes I think there is still something special listening to all this stuff on vinyl, at the end of the day it's where most of us heard it first. Aleks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:48:01 -0400 From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD Quoting "" : > Every time anything improves on the artist/fan relationship is usualy a > reaction rather than an action. I think Ferry is so distant from what the > fans want and feel and has no hands on approach to the fan/artist > relationship that he probably asumes all is well. Isn't he also kept away from developing any sort of relationship with fans? I suspect he's told horror stories and shown only the worst examples of fans by those with personal agendas. Colleen (in conspiracy mode today, evidently) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:52:00 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole-Petter_Dr=F8nen?= Subject: SV: [AVALON] Avalon SACD The press release on the bryanferry.com says that it has been REMIXED. That is not the same as remastered. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleks Kocan To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD > wrote: > > > I just bought the SACD of Avalon today and what a > > dissapointment it is, the sort of dissapointment > > Ferry/Roxy fans have grown to expect. > > --- Ole-Petter_Drxnen > wrote: > > But this Avalon SACD contain Avalon REMIXED, doesn't > > it? It's in 5.1 surround? > > Isn't that the whole point of the release? > > This does seem to be part of the idea. I don't know > how many people will have SACD players or whatever > though. > > I also suspect that Ferry wouldn't have much to do > with the release. I'd like to think that if he was > heavily involved then the finished package may have > been quite different. It seems like another way of > making cash by the record company, although who knows > how many people will buy the SACD version. > > On the plus side for Bryan, his cancelled concerts > have been rescheuled, which is giving something to the > fans. > > To me the remasters etc.. are not really "new" > versions of the albums, they are the same tracks > adjusted in different ways. > > Wonder how many variants of "Avalon" have been > released must be five or six. > > Sometimes I think there is still something special > listening to all this stuff on vinyl, at the end of > the day it's where most of us heard it first. > > Aleks > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:34:42 -0400 From: "Tim Kendrick" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD You raise a very good point. Am I the only one who doesn't know the difference between a remix and a remaster, having the impression only that the latter is a somewhat more extensive version of the former? Can somone enlighten me? When is a remaster not a big-scale remix? ( Of course, I know that remixes can be new arrangements entirely, but presumably that's not the case with AVALON. It would be interesting if it were.) Tim - -----Original Message----- From: Ole-Petter Drxnen >The press release on the bryanferry.com says that it has been REMIXED. >That is not the same as remastered. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:40:31 -0400 From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Avalon SACD My whole point about the SACD is not so much about the SACD itself but it just merely illustrates another missed opportunity for somethig extra to be given that wont take too much effort. I don't expect Bryan to get to know the fans in a one to one thing or anything like that, I just believe he assumes all is OK. There are many artists who don't have any direct contact with fans but would oversee how they are treated at times. There are many bands whose re-release/re-master programme has included additional material,anecdotes etc on these releases. Ok so there might not be material left over but adding some worthwhile retrospective liner notes would be nice or is that too much to ask. A lot of artists have a system for fans getting priority tickets for shows etc. How many greatest hits albums by other artists have you seen where the liner notes will have a picture of the single sleeves with some sort of information like the chart history of that track etc or some sort of note from the artist talking retrospectively about that track. It just seems that every re-release/re-package of all the archive material be it a hits album or re-master has nothing additional to it, nothing that requires any additional effort. It can't be that hard, loads of other bands do it. He doesn't seem to take an active interest in how the fans are treated at times. It's probably our own fault to an extent in thet he sees the same faces turn up on the front rows at many shows so he must assume we are happy with it all. From the few times I have met Bryan and from the many accounts I have read here about fans meeting Bryan they always say he is very welcoming, warm and helpful. I believe that is the sort of person he is and on that basis it makes me think he assumes all is OK. I just wish he had some more control and overview of looking after the fans interest when it comes to record releases, concert tickets etc. I take Colleen's point that maybe he is only exposed to the worse examples of fans for some reason and a wrong overall opinion can be wrongly formed. For every nutcase stalker type person out there there are hundreds of fans who are just genuine ordinary people who go the shows etc to enjoy a good show have a good time with some friends and maybe a one off chance of a photo or autograph at a stage door. What records we buy and what concert tickets we buy is entirely our own choice and no one owes us anything for doing that other than a good CD and a good show. It would be nice if they CDs could be as good as they can be as far as extras go with re-releases and it would be good if people who constantly buy concert tickets can have an easier way of getting good tickets. Over the last 3 years including tickets for my family I have bought around 70 concert tickets and (entirely my own choice) and every one of the with the exception of the standing room tickets has been a nightmare to get a good seat. The Hyde Park show was a fiasco long before the show was cancelled. No one took the time to make sure there was a seating plan so that people knew where they were seating. I saw 3 seating plans in the days after the ticket sales, none of them confirmed as being accurate. They all showed me in 3 different places and none of them being where I was told when I bought the tickets. These are things youy are owed as a fan when buying a ticket and to me that should be sorted out long before the tickets go on sale. The Hamersmith show was another classic example of not giving a hoot about the fans when people who broke their neck to get good seats were told that they were no longer sitting in row 2.3+4 the day before the show so some cameras could get in. A better hands on approach would be much appreciated.Other artists seem to manage it and they are just as aloof as Ferry. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:50:04 -0400 From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD I would say that the difference between a re-mix and a re-master is: Re-master Is taking the original post mix master tape and transferring it onto vinyl/CD in a more clearer way using better technology that wasn't available at the time of the original release. Re-mix Is to take the original multitrack tape and change the balance and stereo position of different instruments/voices. Sometimes there will be tracks on a recording so llow in the mix that you wouldn't hear them on the original mix that will come out in a new mix and similarly some prominent part from the original mix may quieter or even completely left out. The Right Stuff 7" single is a good example of this in that the b-side is almost the same except most of the backing vocals are removed 5.1 surround gives the opportunity to re-mix and re-master. I haven't actually played the new version on my stereo yet to notice how different it sound, I will tonight. My earlier gripes were more about the expectations I had and know could have easliy have been met. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:04:01 -0500 (CDT) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Fwd: Fw: In memory of Caroline Received: from smtpin-2105.public.lawson.webtv.net (172.16.213.115) by storefull-2352.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by smtpin-2105.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id 5A762FE0D for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c1770141a (12-247-29-146.client.attbi.com[12.247.29.146](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003070912063401500al5que> (Authid: jas2347@attbi.com); Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:06:34 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c34612$82262740$921df70c@mshome.net> Reply-To: "Jas" From: "Jas" To: "M.M.K." Subject: Fw: In memory of Caroline Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:06:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Hi Marlena: I sent this to the list on Saturday twice and it has not appeared. I'm not sure why? Hmmmm.. Could you forward so it could? Thanks. I did not know Caroline but it was weird that I had saved the message below. Jas Chicago - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jas To: Avalon Discussion Group Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 6:57 AM Subject: Re: In memory of Caroline Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: In memory of Caroline Add my name to the list of condolences to the family and friends of Caroline Torterat. I never met her, but remember her posts to the list. As I was going thru my old messages today I came across a little note from her. I was in France last year and posted a note about hearing Oh Yeah on the radio somewhere between Saint Avold and Metz. She sent me a very nice note back. I'd like to share that with you. To all her friends and family I express my deepest sympathy. As with a lot of personal losses that have I have had, I hold on the feeling that this loss too will never be forgotten, but that you will see her again in a much better place and time. May she rest in peace. Jas Chicago From Caroline: Hi Jas, you visited my native country last week, as I'm coming from Lorraine (Nancy in fact)..I suppose you've heard a local radio , something like "Radio Lorraine"...I'm happy you've appreciated the place, as Lorraine is not a very touristic place, we have bad reputations because of old factories and mining activities, and very cold weather in the winter...But I love Lorraine! Caroline from Paris now.. Hi Caroline: Thanks. It was my first ever trip to France and I loved it. I thought that part of the country was lovely. It was all new to me and I was absorbing every minute of it. I just happen to be in that area since my friend stays in Saint Avold. Now if I could only learn to speak the language, which I will! Oh Yeah indeed! I was in Paris too for a few days, but it rained for part of my visit. Boo! However, it did not stop me from sightseeing. So much to see!! I have to come back to see the things I was not able the last time. I did manage to make to the Eiffel Tower on a day that was cloudy and overcast but I was determined. No one was going to rain on MY parade. What a minute, do I hear a song there?? Barbara, where's Barbara? Just kidding. I will return. Au revior (I hope I got THAT right) :))) Jas ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:16:01 -0400 From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Fwd: Fw: In memory of Caroline Quoting "M.M.K." : > > Hi Marlena: > > I sent this to the list on Saturday twice and it has not appeared. I'm not > sure why? Hmmmm.. Could you forward so it could? Thanks. I did not know > Caroline but it was weird that I had saved the message below. WHY DID I STOP RECEIVING THE LIST? Your mail probably started bouncing, probably because your mailbox was full, or because there was a problem with your mail server. If your mail is bouncing because your mailbox is full, you will be removed from the list. It is your responsibility to monitor your mailbox. If you are unsubscribed from the list you will also be subscribed to the "bounces" list which will send you one message a day for a month, informing you that you have been unsubscribed from Avalon, and instructing you to resubscribe. PLEASE NOTE: If you are going to be away from email for an extended period of time, please unsubscribe from Avalon before you leave. The list archives are available at http://www.smoe.org/lists/avalon. WHY DIDN'T MY POST SHOW UP ON THE LIST? 1. You must post to Avalon from the address that is subscribed to the list. All posts intended for viewing by list members should be sent to avalon@smoe.org. Posts to any other address will *not* be publicly posted on Avalon. 2. Your post may not be longer than 7000 characters. 3. Your post may not quote back an entire digest. Excessive overquoting (especially reposting the entire text of a post when adding just a few lines of comments) is highly discouraged. Please learn how to edit text to quote only the most relevant sections of a previous post instead of just forwarding the entire past discussion. This makes the discussion virtually unreadable for the digest subcribers and it adds to the time and expense of those who pay by the minute for their Internet connections. 4. Your post may contain an administrative command, such as "cancel" "subscribe" "help", etc., within its first 5 lines, which means the list software would bounce it. - ------------- This concludes this public service announcement. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:37:00 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD - SAD CD J.O'B. rumbles the growl many have here: "I have to say that I will never loose the passion for this music that I have had for over 20 years, but the more I know about the people involved in it, the less I want to know about them. I am glad I can separate the music from the people making it as I would probably never play it again. Phil Manzanera & Paul Thompson have a more direct approach and get involved in their websites and know and see what the fans feel and think. Ferry was recently described as not being a 'hands off' sort of guy when it comes to his recorded output and wants control everything from his latest albums to releaseing archive recordings like the BBC sessions. His fans seem to be the only part of his career that he has a 'hands off' approach. Every time anything improves on the artist/fan relationship is usualy a reaction rather than an action. I think Ferry is so distant from what the fans want and feel and has no hands on approach to the fan/artist relationship that he probably asumes all is well." Very well said, John: Mr. Ferry has always presented as enigmatic. I've never understood the inherent discontinuity of his 'hands-on' approach. - How is it possible to be an obsessive perfectionist without (at least attempts toward) 'micro managing' ALL aspects of his self and his production of life? It seems that where 'Ferry meets Fan', Ferry has constructed an effective barrier. Considering whether or not BF is conscious of his disconnection with the needs of his fan base, one might conclude that Ferry is either sociopathetic (just doesn't care one bit about anyone outside himself) or is fragile (minimizes interfacing the public in order to defensively protect his ego while preserving it). Either conclusion is not flattering and surely has left marks on the picture in the attic. The bottom line, however, is hurting Mr. Ferry's livelihood in real terms - how many fans are in the process of disaffection and alienation, how does a fan base deal with the idea that they are relatively insignificant in the eyes of their 'beloved artist'? Why wouldn't an artist 'reach out' to their fans? - It ultimately translates into dollars and cents, and Mr. Ferry is only making sense if his fan base is masochistic in nature! What does that say about us? Yes, 'familiarity breeds contempt'. Nary a thought, cause 'every thought I've had don't mean a thing'. 'A broken circuit.' KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:47:38 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon SACD - SAD CD Being a fan of Marvin Gaye I have varoius versions of his work on CD, a lot of them with linear notes by David Ritz, others by Nelson George. It would have been intresting to read some good writers take on Ferry and Roxy. or an interview. Ferry strikes me as a private, and somewhat shy person who, and rightly so, draws a line between personal and private. But some good notes who justify a re-release. NP Sinead O'Connor, Fire in Babylon Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:22:57 EDT From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Avalon SACD I have now listened to the SACD of Avalon on the good quality conventional stereo hi fi equipment that I have and I can hear no difference over the HDCD remasters released 4 years ago. I know that you have to have the other equipment to hear this version on all it's glory but I was hoping the stereo mixes would be different from the original. All the tracks are more or less the same length. It would have been nice if all the tracks that have fade outs More Than This, The Space Between, Avalon, The Main Thing, To Turn You On & True To Life were extended to let us hear what was left on the master tapes when the original mixes were done, another lost opportunity. Anything like this would have made this product a more attractive proposition to fans buying it who don't have SACD equipment. Both Rhett Davies and Bob Clearmountain comment on keeping 'the vibe and content of the original mixes intact' . Why?? We already have it mixed like for the last 21 years. In my opinion that unless you have 5.1 equipment, this version does not merit the 18 UK Pounds if you already have the 4.99 from HMV remaster released in 1999, so unless you are a collector or have the right equipment then there is nothing there to entice you to buy it. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:49:55 +0100 From: "Mark Yates" Subject: [AVALON] In Defence of Bryan Ferry Much as I go along with some of the points about the new Avalon CD. But as we all know that is the beauty of collecting, if you choose to collect you have to take the chaff with the wheat. I have collected Bowie for years and its the same with any artist. But its fun. Thats why we do it. I fear this thread is turning into another of the "Lets Knock FERRY for the hell of it" campaign. Lets be perfectly honest, Bryan owes us nothing, even the most devoted of fans is owed Zilch by Mr Ferry. Bryan has always been a private, shy and retiring man, that's his nature, he is and has always been guarded about his private life, and never been outspoken about his fans. That's to his credit, Of course Bryan is thankful of the following he has acquired over the years. Only a few weeks ago we got a wonderful post from Kari we were all moved by her joy at meeting Bryan and I for one was impressed with the courteous nature which he showed. Why is it that one of our list members was preaching how her faith in Bryan had been restored, has now taken the first opportunity to Kick him yet again.(fickle) or what? I don't care how much money he makes, just like his private life it's really none of my business. Lets stop and consider the amount of Joy he has, and still does give, I think that is priceless. Maybe Manzanera likes the medium of the internet better than Bryan, and lets face it he certainly has more time on his hands than Bryan to get involved in such things. And even if Bryan had taken to the internet to discover what his fans think, I very much doubt he would have stayed on line very long. The reaction for Frantic from Avalon members was at best mediocre, the reaction to the new live CD has been even worse. The man can't do right for doing wrong, if he goes on tour he is considered a money grabber. Can't we just for once take stock of the situation and be thankful that he is still around. The Guy is a genius who owes us nothing and I for one owe him a great deal. I tend to think from his recent interviews that he is going through a real hard time at the moment, and that saddens me, I don't like the Idea of someone who has given so much pleasure having such a hard time. so why don't you give the Guy a break? Regards Mark. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:49 EDT From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] In Defence of Bryan Ferry In a message dated 10/07/03 21:57:04 GMT Daylight Time, mark@myates19.fsnet.co.uk writes: I think some of my points may be misunderstood, I am rarely in the 'negative' mode, I usually say nothing if I have nothing good to say > > I fear this thread is turning into another of the "Lets Knock FERRY for the > hell of it" campaign. > Lets be perfectly honest, Bryan owes us nothing, even the most devoted of > fans > is owed Zilch by Mr Ferry. I said the same in my original post, he owes us very little I rarely knock Ferry so I am entitled to do it now and again, and this is not for the hell of it I have only quoted facts in my original post. Like the head of any company they are the figure head and are responsible for what happens around them even if it is not directly their doing. > > Bryan has always been a private, shy and retiring man, that's his nature, he > is and has always been guarded about his private life, and never been > outspoken about his fans. That's to his credit, Of course Bryan is thankful > of > the following he has acquired over the years. I made no mention of his private life in my post and that is something I have quite often defended that he has a right to > Only a few weeks ago we got a wonderful post from Kari we were all moved by > her joy at meeting Bryan and I for one was impressed with the courteous > nature > which he showed. > Why is it that one of our list members was preaching how her faith in Bryan > had been restored, has now taken the first opportunity to Kick him yet > again.(fickle) or what? > I don't care how much money he makes, just like his private life it's really > none of my business. Like I said in my original post I and many others who have met him have always found him charming and helpful, and as I said before I make no reference to his private life. I believe he is genuinely a nice helpful man and just assumes all is OK. I know of many stories and incidents I have heard from many fans and I know he would be appalled by some things but he will never know about them. > > maybe Manzanera likes the medium of the internet better than Bryan, and lets > face it he certainly has more time on his hands than Bryan to get involved > in > such things. > > I wouldn't expect Bryan to have much to do with the internet and the internet is not the only way to look after your fans. We only refer to the internet here as that is how we all know each other. The boss of my company has nothing to do with the company website or customer service etc press issues, public relations, consumer complaints but he ensures that someone is responsible for this and makes sure that the measures in place to deal with these sort of things. That doesn't seem to be the case with Ferry And even if Bryan had taken to the internet to discover what his > fans think, I very much doubt he would have stayed on line very long. > The reaction for Frantic from Avalon members was at best mediocre, the > reaction to the new live CD has been even worse. A very good point but he would also have read many good things said about these albums too, people have opinions and he has to accept that. He would also know what sort of things could be done that would please the fans and ultimately make more sales for him. I think every criticism I made about the SACD if addressed the way I would have liked it would have made the SACD more sellable which is his rightful aim. The man can't do right for > doing wrong, if he goes on tour he is considered > a money grabber. I defended and 'gave the guy a break' with a post entitled 'Singer In Singing Shock' several moths ago by saying he can tour as much as he wants as that's what singers do but I wish he would make more records instead. > Can't we just for once take stock of the situation and be thankful that he > is > still around. > The Guy is a genius who owes us nothing and I for one owe him a great deal. > I tend to think from his recent interviews that he is going through a real > hard time at the moment, and that saddens me, I don't like the Idea of > someone > who has given so much pleasure having such a hard time. so why don't you > give > the Guy a break? The situation to me is that his music has given us great times and we owe that a lot just like you say. He has had a hard time recently but then most of us do go through hell at some time in our life. The guy works hard, so do I To sum up and explain what I meant by my original post is that there are a lot of things done not necessarily by Bryan Ferry but in the name of Bryan Ferry and if Bryan like any Managing Director of a company looked at them closer would make them better than they already are J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V8 #193 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest