From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V8 #162 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Wednesday, June 11 2003 Volume 08 : Number 162 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Dirty anorak! ["SIMON GALLOWAY" ] [AVALON] Hyde Park: it's our party: fun with Roxy in the sun [Robert Vin] [AVALON] A really Good Time [chris.clare@bt.com] [AVALON] The live experience [Go2Sweeney@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] A really Good Time ["Dave Taylor" ] [AVALON] Re: Roxy CD [MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.)] [AVALON] What is fun ? ["PeteK" ] [AVALON] Sheila Take A Bow [Chandla911@aol.com] [AVALON] Roxy Live CDs [Chandla911@aol.com] [AVALON] The penny drops... [Chandla911@aol.com] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:25:23 +0100 From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" Subject: [AVALON] Dirty anorak! > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:08:22 -0400 > From: "David Martin" > Subject: Re: [AVALON] OOTB live - the comeback! > > Get that Dirty Old Anorak down to the dry cleaner will you ! It's dirty and I'm proud!!! Look how far the zip comes up.... ;-) SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:36:38 +0200 From: Robert Vinkenborg Subject: [AVALON] Hyde Park: it's our party: fun with Roxy in the sun I like to read all the different views on RM-topics. About the 2001-live album I can be brief: Viva was an outstanding momentum: on this new album there is a lot to enjoy. The album is okay, a RM-fan can not go without it. Roxy Music in Hyde Park. What an unique change for an unique concert. Let us be the greatest audiance of all time, let's enjoy the moment: I am sure if we are all behind the band; they will give ve us so much in return. Let's not be cynicall on the forehand. July 16 th: fun, nostalgia, Roxy in the Sun: a new momentum in Roxy-history. Let us be a great audience. I can not wait. Partytime! Robert Vinkenborg ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:33:41 +0100 From: chris.clare@bt.com Subject: [AVALON] A really Good Time Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 03:10:25 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Really Good Time Richard Mills replies: "football/soccer matches are so much more enjoyable if you can get together with a few hundred others, spend the 90 minutes singing and shouting about how you're going to knock seven bells out of the other team's fans when they get out of the ground, or better yet, jump up over a few rows of seats and leap over the fence that separates you and do it now, yell some personal abuse on the way because, after all, the alternative would be to spectate and watch the event you paid to see..." Erm, not quite the same thing, I dont remember anybody getting hurt at any show I attended... Did I say dancing or senseless violence - AH yes! we are discussing a Roxy Music gig here not Cannibal Corpse! "The performers are usually confused completely when the audience yells out comments and requests - how many times have you seen a performer indicate they have no idea what is being shouted? As for the escapist dream, I believe it is possible to get that from watching the magic on stage, being bathed in its sound - call me a voyeur but I don't think I need to annoy other people to get my satisfaction." Well my initial reaction in "gee, if you were in MY audience Id quit touring!" Which shows have you been to? By the way you discuss these audience characteristis it sounds like you were at a Sick Of It All show and some skinheads showed up LOL In my experience concert audience placement etiquette is pretty simple - nutters hugging the barrier at the front (usually girlfriends clutching boyfriends stuff and staring at band), segment of audience generally attached to invisible pogo sticks behind (generally boyfriends of the poor girl who got lumbered with his wallet at the barrier so he didnt lose it), behind that the happy to stand, watch and bend thier knees on beats 2 & 4 and behind - the casual viewer with easiest access to the bar killing time til the encore when they play the latest single. Just choose your segment and enjoy - and stay away from those shows youve been attending, they sound a bit rough! (or try kneepads and a helmet!) Best wishes Edwina Currie (in that cheesy leather outfit I had in the Daily Mail) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:57:33 EDT From: Go2Sweeney@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] The live experience If you go to a live rock show you should not expect to have a seat. Seats are for opera goers etc. I attended numerous punk shows in the seventies (no seats to be seen), the Roxy shows I went to in the seventies had no seats (well not where I was anyway), in fact I only went to 2 shows in the seventies where there actually were seats in the front. And now I'm supposed to sit in a seat for a whole show, lean back and ask "Go on then, entertain me?" I think not. And artists do react to audience feedback, a recent example: I attended 2 Lou Reed shows at the end of last month, one in Amsterdam and one here in London. The show in Amsterdam was better, the audience was more appreciative, and, at the beginning of the first encore a number of people went to the front of the stage (me included, my husband stayed seated). The result: a second enore. The London show 4 days later: People did not go to the front of the stage (the venue was not really built for that, as the first row is really close to the stage), there was a standing ovation, but less passion compared to Amsterdam. So Lou didn't do a second encore. So the audience gets what it deserves. Thanks for having the patience to read this. Goodie ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:53:23 +0100 From: "Dave Taylor" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A really Good Time > Just choose your segment and enjoy - and stay away from those shows youve > been attending, they sound a bit rough! (or try kneepads and a helmet!) > > Best wishes > Edwina Currie (in that cheesy leather outfit I had in the Daily Mail) Well, well, Edwina - now that was a Major cock-up..................... ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:21:03 -0500 (CDT) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Re: Concerts I've set back & read all the different views on-to sit or not sit at concerts. No one person is right or wrong on this matter. I've been on lots of shows as I am a dancer. First, I want everyone to be able to see me.Second , It doesn't matter what the audience yells to play it's been formated already,( may deviate a little). I've seen many concerts standing, sitting, here in the South in the heat even been hosed down with water.You take a huge arena where seats are in place you generally are suppose to sit. But depending on the band you go with the flow of audience. But one should always be courteous of the person behind you , they paid to see to. I will say though, when you get certain bands the crowd is on their feet , dancing, trying to sing, some stoned out of their heads. Case in point , when I went to see U2 in an arena sold out with the next night another show. That crowd was on their feet the entire night. But i have to agree with Richard on some of his issues. I pd. $90 to get a good seat & guess what ,I could have pd. $35 just as well. What I got that night was screaming all around me as I said everyone stood ,otherwise you looked at butts all night. I came to see U2 & to hear them. I could see them but to hear , You couldn't even hear what they were singing from the (other) noise. They had to stop a few times to tell the crowd they couldn't hear what they were playing. This wasn't the exception either Lots of other concerts where people on the floor (you don't have seats) would end up with broken feet from being trampled on. I like to at least be able to hear who I came to see, & I like it when crowds are courteous & step in the aisle to do there dancing or at least or dancing if the person behind them or dancing. Like U2 did to stop & tell the crowd" If you want to hear us You have to quiet down." I admire a band that is in total control of the situation or other wise they just have to walk off until order is restored. I know Ferry never fills a arena with 75,000 people but that much of a crowd could quickly tear the place apart if not controlled.. Marlana............................................................ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:36:45 +0100 From: "Mark Yates" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A really Good Time I have got to agree with Chris on this. There is no way a Roxy concert "or any concert for that matter" can be compared with a football crowd. The very nature of a football terrace is to have opposing fans baiting each other.........at a concert we are all there for the same purpose....to show our appreciation to whoever is on stage.......we are United "excuse the pun" in our support for the ACT. Did anyone catch the Morrissey Documentary on Sunday? That Crowd at the Albert hall? just before he came on stage!!, just like the old Roxy days........amazing scenes.......who after seeing that crowd didn't wish they were there?, right in the middle, giving it all, chanting for all your worth, raising the roof.........your blood pumping trough your veins.....all sense gone. I want it and I want it now. Regards. Mark "craving a good gig" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [AVALON] A really Good Time > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 03:10:25 EDT > From: Chandla911@aol.com > Subject: [AVALON] Really Good Time > > Richard Mills replies: > > "football/soccer matches are so much more enjoyable if you can get > together with a few hundred others, spend the 90 minutes singing and > shouting > about how you're going to knock seven bells out of the other team's fans > when > they get out of the ground, or better yet, jump up over a few rows of seats > and > leap over the fence that separates you and do it now, yell some personal > abuse > on the way because, after all, the alternative would be to spectate and > watch > the event you paid to see..." > > Erm, not quite the same thing, I dont remember anybody getting hurt at any > show I attended... Did I say dancing or senseless violence - AH yes! we are > discussing a Roxy Music gig here not Cannibal Corpse! > > "The performers are usually confused completely when the audience yells out > comments and requests - how many times have you seen a performer indicate > they have no idea what is being shouted? As for the escapist dream, I > believe it is possible to get that from watching the magic on stage, being > bathed in its sound - call me a voyeur but I don't think I need to annoy > other > people to get my satisfaction." > > Well my initial reaction in "gee, if you were in MY audience Id quit > touring!" Which shows have you been to? By the way you discuss these > audience characteristis it sounds like you were at a Sick Of It All show and > some skinheads showed up LOL > > In my experience concert audience placement etiquette is pretty simple - > nutters hugging the barrier at the front (usually girlfriends clutching > boyfriends stuff and staring at band), segment of audience generally > attached to invisible pogo sticks behind (generally boyfriends of the poor > girl who got lumbered with his wallet at the barrier so he didnt lose it), > behind that the happy to stand, watch and bend thier knees on beats 2 & 4 > and behind - the casual viewer with easiest access to the bar killing time > til the encore when they play the latest single. > > Just choose your segment and enjoy - and stay away from those shows youve > been attending, they sound a bit rough! (or try kneepads and a helmet!) > > Best wishes > Edwina Currie (in that cheesy leather outfit I had in the Daily Mail) > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:01:35 -0500 (CDT) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Re: Roxy CD FYI went to Best Buy today & Best of Roxy for $13:99 & Roxy Live for $23:99. Pretty much the same on both. For now since I have Live at the Apollo on DVD will wait until the price comes down. Marlana......................................... ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:09:05 -0700 From: "PeteK" Subject: [AVALON] What is fun ? I tend to think one can have fun without being inconsiderate to others. I think some people try too hard to impress others with how much fun they are having. These are really insecure people. I remember seeing Bryan at the Wiltern for his As Time Goes By tour, and their were 2 guys sitting near by, who were talking nearly the whole night...at some point I said 'you could have stayed home and talked all night and saved yourself 75 bucks and my wife and I could have enjoyed this show'....Of course they just looked at me with that dull look you get from most people who could give a flying &*#%$ about anybody but themselves. It brings to mind a line by the character George Costanza when he said "were trying to have a civilization here". Like that is ever going to happen...I'm looking forward to the Roxy show, it will be good, not because of the crowd, but because of the performances.. and I hope others are not so shallow as to need a certain reaction from a crowd to validate their experiences ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 02:37:18 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Sheila Take A Bow Mark wrote: I have got to agree with Chris on this. There is no way a Roxy concert "or any concert for that matter" can be compared with a football crowd. The very nature of a football terrace is to have opposing fans baiting each other.........at a concert we are all there for the same purpose....to show our appreciation to whoever is on stage.......we are United "excuse the pun" in our support for the ACT. Did anyone catch the Morrissey Documentary on Sunday? That Crowd at the Albert hall? just before he came on stage!!, just like the old Roxy days........amazing scenes.......who after seeing that crowd didn't wish they were there?, right in the middle, giving it all, chanting for all your worth, raising the roof.........your blood pumping trough your veins.....all sense gone. I want it and I want it now. Regards. Mark "craving a good gig" Richard Mills replies: Actually, I don't feel my football (soccer) analogy was as effective as I meant it to be, BUT don't you think football fans would say they are showing their support for the club by not letting them others dominate the day, showing them who's who after the match? The point I don't get (so maybe we should call this a day, maybe I'll just never get it) is how it's showing appreciation to the performer when a crowd takes into its own hands who sits and stands where, instead of just staying put in the seat tickets were purchased for, and bays for songs that have either already been programmed or haven't been. I missed the Morrissey programme on TV and had meant to watch it. BUT the Royal Albert Hall is an all-seated venue. If the performer/promoter did not intend people to be seated, they should choose another venue. If showing their appreciation to Morrissey (and I really think this is a euphemism for having a good time with no consideration for anybody else whatsoever) means everybody standing up, it must mean that some people are being inconvenienced. All of this standing as one mob-mentality might make sense if Eno is ushered onstage for the Roxy encore, but usually it's just people not bothering to act like civilised humans. I understand all about the US rock'n'roll rebellion blah blah but when the act is padding out cabaret turns in their late 50s, the audience might reflect the art of growing older gracefully. Lastly, I was a big Smiths fan and used to attend Morrissey concerts on every tour. When he played Madstock with Madness, it just came to the point where that was no longer the crowd I wanted to be part of. As previously mentioned (some years back), I used to be friends with Keith of Smile (who did the hair for early Ferry/Roxy covers) who in turn was mates with Madness. Suggs and his cohorts weren't impressed one bit by the bovver boys who turned out as Morrissey faithful and had but one aim in mind - disruption. Oh and maybe loutishness. And Morrissey was dropped from the next one. When Morrissey was named as support on the Outside tour with Bowie, I looked forward to seeing him again. But of course he dropped out of that tour also after disagreements and I don't suppose anyone will know the real reason why that happened, regardless of what Stephen says nowadays. So I have a great regard for Morrissey's music, but I'll align myself with Madness and Bowie and enjoy the music live rather than the selfish rabble rousing... Best wishes Richard Mills n/p Roxy Music Live (Manzo package arrived this morning) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:21:12 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Roxy Live CDs I suppose the problem with Roxy Live CDs is, that like many, I've already got a zillion copies of the same set. It sounds a bit flat compared to what we know is possible, but it is good quality recording of course compared to some of those zillion. And because the Roxy set was always the same with one or two exceptions, the break in the 2 cds is the same as all the bootlegs too, so it doesn't feel like a new album release. Best wishes Richard Mills n/p Side 2 ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:34:33 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] The penny drops... Now I am on CD2 of the Roxy Live set, I realise they have TWO different versions of Both Ends Burning on the same set - the audio version on CD1 and the Hammy Odeon DVD version on CD2 (which is noticeably less 'flat'). Best wishes Richard Mills ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V8 #162 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest