From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V8 #156 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, June 5 2003 Volume 08 : Number 156 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] OOTB Foolproof vs Viva ["SIMON GALLOWAY" ] Re: [AVALON] Jobson [Daniel Atterbom ] Re: [AVALON] OOTB video [Daniel Atterbom ] [AVALON] FW: <> 80s Tarot with BF as the Knight of Cups ["Anton v] [AVALON] She Sells.....Sanctuary? ["Chris Turner" ] Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 ["Chris Turner" ] Re: [AVALON] OOTB Foolproof vs Viva ["tmoq" ] Re: [AVALON] OOTB video ["tmoq" ] Re: [AVALON] FW: <> 80s Tarot with BF as the Knight of Cups ["Pau] [AVALON] Roxy Band Line Up ["Caledonia Controls Inc." ] Re: [AVALON] Cry, Cry, Cry! [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Re: New [Barbara Uhal ] Re: [AVALON] Cry, Cry, Cry! [Daniel Atterbom ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:56:07 +0100 From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" Subject: [AVALON] OOTB Foolproof vs Viva > From: "tmoq" > > I beg to differ but these are not the same song. Go to > http://www.pipeline.com/~tmoq/viva.mp3 and > http://www.pipeline.com/~tmoq/foolproof.mp3 and have a listen to these small > 5 second 96 kbps mp3 snippets. In this example Phil`s guitar work following > "Out of the sky came the sun..." is completely different. > > Gene > From: JFROXY@aol.com > > The version of OOTB used on "Viva!" is indeed the same one which appears on > the "Foolproof" bootleg. The only difference being EJ's violin solo, this was > taken from a performance in New York in early '76, hence Rick Wills name > appearing on the album. Also, Andy Mackay says that there were very few > overdubs on > "Viva!". > > JF. ...whereas Phil says there were lots of overdubs, he was the one who worked on it in the studio with Chris Thomas. Maybe there were very few overdubs for Andy to do. I've just listened to the two versions of OOTB simultaneously, Viva in the left speaker, Foolproof in the right, and despite a slight difference in the speed of the recording (the boot is slightly slow) the vocals, bass and drums are identical. The guitar during the chorus is different and the violin solo is different. And the version on Viva is shorter, so maybe JF is right about the two performances being joined together, but it points more to overdubbing and a bit of editing. Compare the two versions of Do The Strand (I just did). They are both from the Newcastle gig, but the Viva version has a guitar solo, the Foolproof version a moog-y style keyboard solo. But the drums and vocals are identical (the bass is less prominent in the mix on the boot version so it's hard to tell). Viva was put together after the end of the Siren tour, so it's more likely that Rick Wills was brought in to fix a few basslines here and there, as he was the most recent bass player Roxy had used. Anyway, live albums are almost never completely live. Bowie fixed David Live and the final Ziggy show (he did that in 1981, Jeff Beck even re-recorded his guitar solo for The Jean Genie but still wouldn't let them use it). When The Who released the complete Live At Leeds, Roger Daltrey fixed a few vocals, and that was almost 30 years after the event. And just ask Bill about 801 Live... Anyway, I've got things to do, I can't overdub my day if I don't like part of it!!! SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:59:41 +0100 From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" Subject: [AVALON] OOTB video The only two videos I know of OOTB featuring Eddie are the Musicladen performance (check Amazon for the DVD) and Stockholm 1976 (check your international TV schedules for a repeat). Musicladen is probably better as the Stockholm show is one of the most lacklustre Roxy performances I've seen/heard (the whole show that is, not just OOTB). SimonG - ---------- > From: Mike Billmann > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Jobson > > Is there any video to be found anywhere of Roxy with Jobson doing Out of the Blue? > > Mike ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:21:20 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Jobson At 21.57 -0700 03-06-03, Mike Billmann wrote: >Is there any video to be found anywhere of Roxy with Jobson doing Out of >the Blue? Yes, Stockholm 1976 and that show has been treed here. Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:22:24 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] OOTB video At 09.59 +0100 03-06-04, SIMON GALLOWAY wrote: >the Stockholm show is one of the most lacklustre Roxy performances I've >seen/heard (the whole show that is, not just OOTB). Hum, I like it a lot, why do you dislike it and what show and bootleg are your fav? Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:55:17 +0200 From: "Anton van Lammeren" Subject: [AVALON] FW: <> 80s Tarot with BF as the Knight of Cups I'm not into Tarot, what is this game!? But it was amusing to see all those names again... (Yeah, the 80's were my 20's...) Tara, Anton. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin Thurlow > Sent: dinsdag 3 juni 2003 14:53 > To: alloy@smoe.org (The Thomas Dolby mailing list) > > Subject: Alloy: 80s Tarot with Thomas as the Magician > > > I've just been sent this link by an observant friend: > > http://www.notsoswift.com/amindandacard/80starot/ > > The description is quite amazing, as are the other choices > for cards. Someone has put a lot of thought into this. > I love it. KNIGHT OF CUPS THE CARD: Beautiful but thorny: Bryan Ferry as the romantic and labile Knight of Cups. MEANING: Refined in his tastes, perhaps even foppish, the Knight of Cups is an emotional, sensitive, delicate creature. His quest for the beautiful and tender often crosses over into brooding and dissatisfaction. As with all Knights, this one lacks balance, and seeing him in your reading asks you to look carefully at what he represents and verify its quantity in your own life. Do you, in the case of the Knight of Cups, need to put your rose-colored glasses on more often, or take them off occasionally? Is there someone in your life, perhaps draped across a fainting couch behind some dusty velvet curtains, whom you recognize as having the characteristics of this Knight? Are his discerning, fussy tastes just what you need right now- or a trap you should be avoiding? Whether within yourself or seated across the table, a little goes a long way where the Knight of Cups is concerned. Appreciate his sentiment, but keep it in its place. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:17:37 +0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: [AVALON] She Sells.....Sanctuary? I got an e-mail this morning asking whether Bryan Ferry would be appearing with Roxy Music in August and was still a member of the band... I resisted the temptation to reply that Ian Astbury has taken his place in 21st Century Rox... Chris _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:50:52 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 "If it had been a dental problem, I'm sure Neil Jones would've gladly fixed it." Christian, dare I open my mouth? - I've heard rumor that 'The Dentist' has already drilled Mr. Ferry into a toothless state... ... And Mr. Jones' new email cover, 'Amanda Lewis', does sound very alluring... (Sorry Neil, I just couldn't resist. But I thought it was safe!) Best wishes. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:02:04 +0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 Bill, Much appreciate your insights into the band re: Glasto. What's most disappointing is that reports of probable Roxy/Ferry involvement were run as true in both the NME and on the BBC. There was a time when these two institutions were synonyms for accurate journalism (...and Wagon Wheels were bigger than your hand...) Derek Johnson, where are you now...? Regards Chris _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:21:49 -0400 From: "tmoq" Subject: Re: [AVALON] OOTB Foolproof vs Viva - ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:56 AM Subject: [AVALON] OOTB Foolproof vs Viva > > I've just listened to the two versions of OOTB simultaneously, Viva in the > left speaker, Foolproof in the right, and despite a slight difference in the > speed of the recording (the boot is slightly slow) the vocals, bass and > drums are identical. The guitar during the chorus is different and the > violin solo is different. And the version on Viva is shorter, so maybe JF is > right about the two performances being joined together, but it points more > to overdubbing and a bit of editing. > That really seems like a hell of a lot of work to fix something that wasn't broke to begin with. The Foolproof versions of both OOTB and MOP are forever my favorite versions of these songs and there are quite a few others I`d put before the Viva! version. I just find it hard to believe that out of the all of the shows they did (and according to Phil, recorded) to that date they couldn't find a single version of OOTB worthy enough on it`s own??? I do agree that the vocals, bass, and drums sound identical. However, the vocals, bass and drums throughout the 2001 tour, for the most part, sound near identical to me as well. Just an observation. Gene ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:27:48 -0400 From: "tmoq" Subject: Re: [AVALON] OOTB video There is also a '75 Midnight Special performance of OOTB. The audio portion of has been included in a past tree, but I haven`t seen the video in decades. Gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:59 AM Subject: [AVALON] OOTB video > The only two videos I know of OOTB featuring Eddie are the Musicladen > performance (check Amazon for the DVD) and Stockholm 1976 (check your > international TV schedules for a repeat). Musicladen is probably better as > the Stockholm show is one of the most lacklustre Roxy performances I've > seen/heard (the whole show that is, not just OOTB). > > SimonG > > ---------- > > From: Mike Billmann > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Jobson > > > > Is there any video to be found anywhere of Roxy with Jobson doing Out of the > Blue? > > > > Mike > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:01:28 -0500 From: "Paula Brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] FW: <> 80s Tarot with BF as the Knight of Cups > KNIGHT OF CUPS Pretty good description. That was fun! Guess if they were for sale, which they aren't, I'd have to have a deck. Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:35:16 -0400 From: "Caledonia Controls Inc." Subject: [AVALON] Roxy Band Line Up According to Jim Lawn, the 4 original members will be in the line up for the summer sessions. However, Roxyrama did not list a drummer (TGPT) as part of the band?? Is there any truth to the rumour that Roxy Music will be playing in Toronto in July this year? Thanks, John PS: Treble winners.........! ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:37 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 In article , roxyrama@hotmail.com (Chris Turner) wrote: > Much appreciate your insights into the band re: Glasto. What's most > disappointing is that reports of probable Roxy/Ferry involvement were > run as true in both the NME and on the BBC. There was a time when these > two institutions were synonyms for accurate journalism (...and Wagon > Wheels were bigger than your hand...) > Chris, I suppose it is possible the BF was asked to do it rather than RM and this 'detail' has been lost in translation but PM couldn't believe that it would have been turned down by BF given the exposure it generates and, certainly, PM was never told about an approach and, as mentioned, it was logistically impossible anyway. On more important matters, I never was a great fan of Wagon Wheels. Who out there remembers the Nux bar though (withdrawn, I suspect, because of its unfortunate rhyming possibilities). Cheers Bill ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:50:40 +0100 From: "Amanda Lewis" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 You should see me in my twinset! Ha, the first transvestite, sadistic dentist! ...oh, and its never safe for you KB..... Neil. P.S. my position on Wagon Wheels is negative...wouldn't have them in the house. Now, a Garibaldi, thats a different story! What ever happened to them BTW? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KB Porter" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 > "If it had been a dental problem, I'm sure Neil Jones > would've gladly fixed it." > > Christian, dare I open my mouth? - I've heard rumor that > 'The Dentist' has already drilled Mr. Ferry into a toothless > state... > > ... And Mr. Jones' new email cover, 'Amanda Lewis', does > sound very alluring... > > (Sorry Neil, I just couldn't resist. But I thought it was > safe!) > > > Best wishes. KBP > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:56:27 -0700 (PDT) From: mt cafe Subject: [AVALON] Cry, Cry, Cry! From: "Mark Yates" Subject: [AVALON] Live CD. Thirdly.......The audience..., the audience are a major player in any live album, its usually the audience that lift the band, they give all live albums the "life,spirit and soul" if this album feels "Flat" it should come as no surprise to anyone who was actually at any of the gigs........the audience's were flat........the majority of the Roxy audience consisted of middle aged, middle class bores, that wouldn't know how to enjoy a gig if there lives depended on it."like the annoying gits" that stood next to me who would rather discuss what restaurant they were going eat at and contemplate what could be on the menu, rather than actually listen to the music they had supposedly come to enjoy .Not even Dream home or Out of the blue could lift them, they had no idea what they were listening too.........of course there was the hardcore Roxy's who gave it "there all" but they were considerably out numbered by the silent majority. Unlike on Viva where the audience were one hundred percent behind the band, giving the album a boost of energy........so if the new album comes across as flat...... that is a true reflection of a flat audience . Personally I think its a wonderful memento of some very memorable nights watching and listening to a great band........what I find disappointing is that of all the many bands I have seen live, Roxy are one of the very few that don't need to over dub.....they gave it there all on that tour.........if only the lacklustre, unappreciative, ignorant audience could have done the same. Regards MARK I have no idea what sort of concerts you attended, but any that I saw were both exciting and electric with nothing "flat" about the audience and the crowd joining in with every song from about second or third on. For someone who hasn't heard the CD yet, you have plenty to say about it! How can you discuss something you have only heard from others.....are you that easily swayed? Your thread is full of contradictions....good mix of age and gender.....full of middle aged assholes.....which is it? The album will be flat because the audience was unresponsive and didn't lift the band......but the band gave it their all! So, are you going to buy the new CD or are you going to take the word of those who can not take the rough with the smooth? I would suggest that everyone that has moaned about the album so far, take it back for a refund! I will not be influenced by any whinging and will decide for myself when I get it, whether I like it or not! SJ _____________________________________________________________ http://www.lovemail.co.uk _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:12:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry, Cry, Cry! On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, mt cafe wrote: > assholes.....which is it? The album will be flat because the audience > was unresponsive and didn't lift the band......but the band gave it > their all! So, are you going to buy the new CD or are you going to take Actually, my fine Irish friend, there were 2 nights on the tour, and possibly more, where the audience gave it their all and the band was indeed flat--the Washington, DC show and the second half of the second night in Boston. Colleen (who thus far, for some reason, has made zero effort to find the live album) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:01:19 -0400 From: Barbara Uhal Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: New I saw Ministry in the early 80's at a club in Trenton, New Jersey called "City Gardens". The regulars called it "King Tuts" because there was no air conditioning and the place was Africa Hot in the summer and in the winter. This club was the only place, besides college radio, that was playing new wave, punk, and just about anything besides Aerosmith and The Eagles. [ I've nothing against these bands] City Gardens was my first introduction to Roxy music and I've been a fan ever since. I've been reading up on the Roxy Music sound and image. I never knew the influence they had on the groups coming out of the 80's. I now realize the image of bands like, ABC, The Fixx, Japan - the list goes on... were greatly influenced by Roxy. I respect the fact that Roxy perfected their sound and image in the 70's. The more I read, the more I realize that I already liked Roxy even before I became aware of it. These guys were truly before their time. - Just my opinion. Not sure what happened to Ministry, I wouldn't be surprised if Al Jorgensen is producing up and coming bands somewhere in L.A.. New York, or New Orleans. Barbara ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:25:08 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Cry, Cry, Cry! The one I attend in Copenhagen was a great gig and the audience were great. No recording from it made it to the live album. At 21.12 -0400 03-06-04, Colleen Matan wrote: >Colleen (who thus far, for some reason, has made zero effort to find the >live album) Well you did not like the 2001 Roxy tour that much did you? :-) I will put in the call for the live album sometime, after my deadline. Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V8 #156 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest