From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V8 #155 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Wednesday, June 4 2003 Volume 08 : Number 155 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Roxy Live CD - Some thaughts... [chris.clare@bt.com] [AVALON] Jobson [chris.clare@bt.com] RE: [AVALON] Roxy live CD - Some Thoughts... [Daniel Atterbom ] RE: [AVALON] Roxy live CD - Some Thoughts... ["Andrew Shearer" ] Re: [AVALON] Jobson [Mike Billmann ] [AVALON] Re: New ["Heather Buch" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:02:42 +0100 From: chris.clare@bt.com Subject: [AVALON] Roxy Live CD - Some thaughts... Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:44:45 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Roxy live CD - Some Thoughts... While the packaging is fairly nice (although verging on the thrown together) I can't help but be massively disappointed by the Roxy Music Live cd that was released today in the UK. And it features some some of the most appallingly glaring overdubs ever committed to record. I agree with John that it's good to hear More Than This which sounds great live but where is the cry of 'This is Roxy Music' after the first song? Why the truncated version of Streetlife? This all leaves the question: Why was Viva Roxy Music such a good (if incomplete) representation of Roxy as a live band at that time and why does this cd strike me as so flat? J - ----------------------------------------------------- Why does this all sound painfuly familiar... this folks may well be where your bootlegs of the last tour come in handy - Thing is most bands tend to record "live in the studio", "live at rehearsals" or "live at soundcheck" and throw the audience from the recording in... the flatness has a lot to do with technology and the quality of live recordings nowadays (notice the drum sound at the start of Out Of The Blue on Viva... its like a gun going off inside your head) - wheras now, it all sounds very clean, especially when its going straight to the recording unit anyway... I mean the clue should really be the backing singers credited who werent on the tour and I may be miles out here but I thaught the set list was identical throuout the tour? So where is If There Is Something coming from then!? (soundcheck, studio??) If you have a bootleg of the show the roecording claims to be from (i gather they are from different venues right?) do a comparison.... If the results are anything like comparing Kiss Alive III to the Auburn Hills 1992 show it was supposedly recorded at im sure noone will be at all surprised... Cheers Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:05:26 +0100 From: chris.clare@bt.com Subject: [AVALON] Jobson Mark Yates: Just one word Eddie....a master musician who shone bright in the studio and even brighter when faced with a live audience... - ---------------------- Hiss stuff with Zappa was great also! Chris Clare ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:17:51 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy live CD - Some Thoughts... At 19.07 -0400 03-06-02, Arnold Schulberg wrote: >On first listening to VIVA! I knew that Roxy would not very likely open with >OOTB and that the set was WAAAAAAAAY too short. Still it has its >electrifying moments. May I suggest that VIVA! was as good as it was due to >the presence of Young Edwin??? It was a double album cut to a single album, 6 and 9 being among the tracks omitted. Roxy at it's peak, studio responses at al, can be heard at the 1976 Stockholm concert. Viva, 801 live, Neil Young's Time fades away, Curtis Mayfield live in Europe, Marvin Gaye live 1974 Oakland, King Crimson's USA, Family's Anyway, The last waltz, Before the flood, and the Swede Lars Winnerback are among my favorites in the live genre. I like Crowded house's Farewell to the world, but thatr's avideo. Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:42:55 +0100 From: "SIMON GALLOWAY" Subject: [AVALON] Flat? I haven't got the new live album yet (waiting to see if I'm amongst the first 150 over at Expression), but from reading the comments so far I would guess that the album sounds flat because it's taken from so many different performances, so any feel that would have been built up through a show is lost. And before anyone says it, I know Viva was taken from a few different shows, but it was very skillfully compiled and tastefully overseen by Phil, and only from three different performances rather than 697. I did hear the new live version of the truncated Street Life on the radio yesterday, and the audience noise is way too high and so obviously enhanced with noise from elsewhere (just like the laughter track on TV shows). The overall mix is very compressed, which would also contribute to the "flatness" of the sound, as compression flattens out the dynamic range so that the differences in volume (soft, loud etc) become less noticeable. And why that short version? They performed the full version for the first couple of months for the tour. As for Eddie Jobson, a great player, but live he was erratic, you only have to listen to the version of Out Of The Blue from which ever bootleg contains bits from Newcastle 1974 (i.e. the version used on Viva) to hear that his solo is way off key. The version on Viva is most definitely over-dubbed (as is the rest of the album by various members, spotlight on Rick Wills who only toured with Roxy in 1976). Anyway, what I'm definitely not looking forward too on this new live cd is Jealous Guy. As tedious as it is, it must be even more unbearable with the overdubbed screaming rock tarts coming on all "Great Gig In The Sky" at the end. It was bad enough on the recent Ferry tour, so who on earth thought it would be a worthy addition to the Roxy performance...!!! A Roxy Music fan is never satisfied. So there!!! SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:13:03 +0000 From: "Andrew Shearer" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy live CD - Some Thoughts... For Heaven's sake, how come no one has mentioned the wonderful Live in Frejus album? Andrew _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:35:55 +0100 From: "thom.wallace" Subject: [AVALON] Roxy Live - On the Flat. Like most folk I've yet to hear the new live album, but I wonder if the problem with the flat sound could be something to do with a possible 5.1 release in the future. I find the sound on the "Live at the Apollo" DVD pretty flat, but I don't have 5.1 playback system and have always put the sound deficiency down to that. I like many otheres on this list love the "Viva" album, but I have been led to believe that it was given a good overdub treatment as most live album usually are so it is perhaps slightly unfare to hold it up as some true guidepost of Roxy live. As for the "Heart Still Beating" album it's dire, flat sound, a band in the process of disintegration and some very bland arrangements. I have no doubts that no matter how flat the new albums sound it will still be 100 times better than that album. To be honest I've heard better bootlegs than that album. Perhaps Bill McCormick could shed some light on the background to the mix on the new album as I would have expected that Phil and Andy would have been consulted about a final mix before the album was passed for release. Tom. You can also contact me at: TomWallace@vivaroxymusic.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:55 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: RE: [AVALON] Glastonbury 0 Boro 1 I can confirm that the band would never have been ready to play Glastonbury. BF is playing in Scandinavia in mid-June and they don't start rehearsing until his return when, anyway, for a variety of reasons not everyone is immediately available for rehearsal (band and crew). Phil would like to have played there but it was never a possibility. BM In article , bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) wrote: > In article <200306011320.h51DK6Jn016957@smoe.org>, ferryman@freeuk.com > (Chris Turner) wrote: > > > I didn't really see this as an either/or situation John, it's jut > > noticeable that a potential opportunity to enhance his reputation is > > lost for the sake of a few shekels, whilst clearly less lucrative > > dates > > are fulfilled. I do think it's entirely appropriate that Ferry is > > honouring the cancelled dates and I give him due credit for that. > > I may have misunderstood what Phil told me about these concerts but, > AFAIK, the situation was/is: > > 1. Hyde Park was offered first but the band were reluctant to do a > 'one-off' > 2. The Portugal gig was offered and, on the basis of this, it was > decided to do both; > 3. The US date came in at very short notice; > 4. Rehearsals for these dates are not scheduled to start until towards > the end of June making any performances in June (i.e. Glastonbury) a > non-starter. > > Phil has never mentioned the possibility of doing Glastonbury (which I > don't doubt he would have liked to do). So, either someone, somewhere > isn't letting on to PM and AM about what dates the band has been > offered or (shock, horror) someone, somewhere in the media is shit > stirring for the hell of it. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:55:38 EDT From: JFROXY@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Flat? In a message dated 03/06/03 10:39:44 GMT Daylight Time, simon.galloway@virgin.net writes: > As for Eddie Jobson, a great player, but live he was erratic, you only have > to listen to the version of Out Of The Blue from which ever bootleg contains > bits from Newcastle 1974 (i.e. the version used on Viva) to hear that his > solo is way off key. The version on Viva is most definitely over-dubbed (as > is the rest of the album by various members, spotlight on Rick Wills who > only toured with Roxy in 1976). > The version of OOTB used on "Viva!" is indeed the same one which appears on the "Foolproof" bootleg. The only difference being EJ's violin solo, this was taken from a performance in New York in early '76, hence Rick Wills name appearing on the album. Also, Andy Mackay says that there were very few overdubs on "Viva!". JF. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:22:20 -0400 From: "tmoq" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Flat? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Flat? > > The version of OOTB used on "Viva!" is indeed the same one which appears on > the "Foolproof" bootleg. I beg to differ but these are not the same song. Go to http://www.pipeline.com/~tmoq/viva.mp3 and http://www.pipeline.com/~tmoq/foolproof.mp3 and have a listen to these small 5 second 96 kbps mp3 snippets. In this example Phil`s guitar work following "Out of the sky came the sun..." is completely different. Gene ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Billmann Subject: Re: [AVALON] Jobson Is there any video to be found anywhere of Roxy with Jobson doing Out of the Blue? Mike Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:45:22 +0100 From: "Heather Buch" Subject: [AVALON] Re: New On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:05:03 -0400 (EDT), avalon-digest wrote > Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 01:09:45 -0400 > From: Barbara Uhal > Subject: [AVALON] New > > A true story: some years ago I went to see the band Ministry with > a group of friends. I introduced my friends to Ministry's music, > they loved the song " You've got to work for Love", along with the bands > other new wave-ish, dance tunes. We were all hyped for the show, but > when Ministry came on stage, their format completely changed! We > expected " You've got to work for Love", instead, we got " Just one more > hit". We where expecting dance music, not hard rock. I was willing > to stay and hear them out, but my friends wanted the leave. The > change was just to radical for them. The point of this story is > that if an artist moves out of the - what people expect range - some > people will not give it a chance. My friends did not even stay for > the second song, they weren't the only people to leave that club > that night. Hi Barbara, Welcome! Ministry - an excellent example of a band who REALLY changed. Did yuo see Ministry in the early 90's - "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" tour, where Al Jorgensen was throwing nuts and bolts out at a pasty-faced black-clad audience from behind a chain-link fence? That was quite a departure from their earlier new-wave stuff, but I loved the new sound, which I also think gained Ministry many more fans than they lost. But what ever happened to Ministry? That early '90's industrial stuff was over in a flash, and then along came techno/house, at least in L.A. Heather ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V8 #155 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest