From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V8 #113 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, April 24 2003 Volume 08 : Number 113 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish ["Martin Stockman" ] [AVALON] Bryan Ferry Manchester 2003 CD Tree offer [Duarte Mendonca ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish ["Heather Buch" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish Nice post Rob I thinks there's a difference between the overproduction on Bete Noire and the bland production on Frantic. What we all agree on is that less is generally more. I've recently returned to ATGB and his sparse breathless roomfilling vocal is shockingly good. More than this I know there's nothing. For me the jury's still out on Bry/Bri collaborations. From woeful Wildcat Days to wonderful I Thought. I'd quite like Manzo to produce the old boy but I guess there's more chance of Graham Simpson manning the deck. pip pip Martino - -----Original Message----- From: Rob Whiteford [mailto:robert@rwhiteford.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 22 April 2003 16:25 To: Martin Stockman; Maggie Curran; OBrienFerry@aol.com; avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish Goin' Down sounds like Dire Straits > >meets Chris Rea incognito as a pub band. Dear All, Sign of the times that I am just catching up with messages from mid March. I was wondering if the quote above, from John I believe, had the implication that Goin' Down was Dire Rea ?! I still like Frantic - it's still there in the 6CD Autochanger. Baby Blue is terrific, Cruel excellent, Fool for Love a great song and I Thought a masterpiece worthy of any Ferry/Roxy album. I don't know if Colin Good is to blame or just Bryans endless remixing but the Alphaville versions of Cruel and San Simeon are light years ahead of the "dead" sounding versions on Frantic. I largely agree with John's comments but think that the original San Simeon sounds exactly like a Ferry song. Up until the guitar solo at the end the Frantic version of Fool for Love is a welcome departure from "dead" sounding mixes, although the Alphaville version has a brilliant backing track he could put another lyric on. Clearly Bryan must lean towards this sanitised, toned down, mixed approach as these aren't the first tracks to be scrubbed within an inch of their lives. Compare Horoscope's NYC with Mamouna's - all the edginess, all the energy has been surgically removed. I remember JOB asking before this tour started what songs Bryan could do with just the piano as "The Only Face" had been such a success. Most of Mamouna would benefit I think and San Simeon would be fascinating to hear. Maybe ATGB was such a success because it was great to hear his voice again. I've ranted on here before about great songs being lost in the mix, with the difference between the perfect clarity of Boys and Girls and the dense but flat feel of Bete Noire being the most obvious example of this in action. So I'll rant again - Bryan Ferry sitting at a paino makes better songs than anyone else. He has a voice that is very distinctive and emotional. Please don't bury that talent by over elaborating. And since we are probably on borrowed time he should write with Eno and even more importantly let Eno produce it. He would never tolerate wasting San Simeon he would make it even more weird. By the way does anyone else think " I thought "sounds quite like U2 ? cheers Rob ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:41:50 -0400 From: Duarte Mendonca Subject: [AVALON] Bryan Ferry Manchester 2003 CD Tree offer Thanks to Richard Mills I can now offer three lucky North American list members their own copy of the Bryan Ferry Manchester 2003 2 CD set. "Indecision is the key to flexibility." ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:33:11 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish "Clearly Bryan must lean towards this sanitised, toned down, mixed approach as these aren't the first tracks to be scrubbed within an inch of their lives. Compare Horoscope's NYC with Mamouna's - all the edginess, all the energy has been surgically removed." Refreshing post, Rob! I have frequently wondered what Bryan Ferry's artistic 'inclinations' are with respect to a 'sanitized, toned down, mixed approach'. I may be way off mark here, but I've always perceived Horoscope's versions of songs that made it to Mamouna as being more stiff and metered, less complicated (or less layered) than those on Mamouna. (Even Horoscope's NYC has a singsong poppy feel despite its excellent 'street noise' effects incorporated.) Whereas I perceive Frantic to be the equivalent of Horoscope-to-Mamouna in its relationship to Alphaville. Clearly, my perception destroys any idea I may harbor that BF's approach to 'sanitized' music is consistent! I've struggled with the idea that he has changed (reversed) his artistic approach or inclinations between the unauthorized 'releases' of Horoscope and Alphaville. More problematic is the idea that the record company coincidentally switched opinion about what 'style' of BF's music would be more viable in the marketplace (Was Mamouna such a market flop that the 'reversal' of it is what Frantic should be like?) - Therefore, I should conclude that my perception of these works is inaccurate? But is it? In search, I look to Mamouna which most readers seem to agree is very layered, highly mixed, and Frantic which by comparison seems to be more straight forward, less refined. Let's chalk that down to 'market forces'. The progenitors of those releases, Horoscope and Alphaville, I must assume were the preferred styles of BF since they represent his work at the time when he 'envisioned', created them (they were altered, changed for marketability). I am left with the idea that BF did in fact changed his approach - - not because of artistic reasons, but because as a rational artist he wanted to 'sell'. Perhaps his natural style is more along the lines of Horoscope, as Rob seems to suggest, - its incarnation, Mamouna, was brought to market in response to record company demands. So the next album of original work, Alphaville, was created by BF with the idea that Mamouna type work was in demand by the record company. The record company said 'no', and BF reworked it into Frantic. He allowed the release of Frantic because he was convinced, arguably pressured, it would be more commercially viable than would be Alphaville - he came to believe 'lots of guitars and rock'n roll' has a broader fan base than does 'obscure, moody, sophisticated art' music. But I do not like the idea that Bryan Ferry is not an artist to the point where he would take the stand of 'this is my music, this is what I want out in the public and I will not change my art for commercial reasons'! - Only in a perfect world, I guess. Best wishes. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:16:10 +0100 From: "Heather Buch" Subject: [AVALON] getting used to Hawkwind On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 04:05:03 -0400 (EDT), avalon-digest wrote Yeah, I do have to say I like "Masters of the Universe", "Motorhead", and especially "Space is Deep". I think I complained about them earlier because I was trying to listen to them while programming. More recently, listening to them out loud (not with headphones) and *not* while trying to be logical has made a difference. Best, Heather > Apologies -been away recently - however ref recnt posts re Hawkwind - > must say that this group has a strong conection with Roxy for me as > the first time I saw Roxy Music was July 1972 at the Locarno > Ballroom, Bristol where Roxy were THIRD support act to the "Sonic > Assasins"known as Hawkwind. If I remember rightly Roxy stood in at > the last minute as understudies for Shakin Stevens and the Sunsets! > They absolutely blew me and my mates away at this gig - bought the > first album days after and have been totally hooked on RM/BF ever > since - thank god for Hawkwind!! Was anybody else on the list present? > > Mike > - - check out Master of the Universe on In Search of Space for one > of the great Hawkwind numbers > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > ------------------------------ > > End of avalon-digest V8 #112 > **************************** > > ======================================================================== > For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > info avalon-digest Heather Buch ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:20:58 +0100 From: "Heather Buch" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 04:05:03 -0400 (EDT), avalon-digest wrote > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:25:22 +0100 > From: "Rob Whiteford" > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic 1 year on (Medium/Long post) ish > > So I'll rant again - Bryan Ferry sitting at a paino makes better > songs than anyone else. He has a voice that is very distinctive and > emotional. Please don't bury that talent by over elaborating. And > since we are probably on borrowed time he should write with Eno and > even more importantly let Eno produce it. Hear hear. Bryan and Eno are a perfect pair, like Nick and Blixa or Gainsbourg and Birkin. He would never tolerate > wasting San Simeon he would make it even more weird. By the way does > anyone else think " I thought "sounds quite like U2 ? Good observation. The "I Thought" vocals have the same urgent intensity as Bono's. Which creates another connection, as the first time I heard and really appreciated one of RM's early songs ("If There is Something") was at a friends house. He really described the music to me before playing it so that I would understnad it better, and I did. Then he played the Zooropa songs that Eno had collaborated on (Lemon and one other track than sounds like Johnny Cash) which I liked a lot. So I sort of associate Ferry with U2, anyway through the Eno conection. Heather > > cheers > Rob > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:30:12 EDT > From: Mikejhallett@aol.com > Subject: [AVALON] Hawkwind / Roxy > > Apologies -been away recently - however ref recnt posts re Hawkwind - > must say that this group has a strong conection with Roxy for me as > the first time I saw Roxy Music was July 1972 at the Locarno > Ballroom, Bristol where Roxy were THIRD support act to the "Sonic > Assasins"known as Hawkwind. If I remember rightly Roxy stood in at > the last minute as understudies for Shakin Stevens and the Sunsets! > They absolutely blew me and my mates away at this gig - bought the > first album days after and have been totally hooked on RM/BF ever > since - thank god for Hawkwind!! Was anybody else on the list present? > > Mike > - - check out Master of the Universe on In Search of Space for one > of the great Hawkwind numbers > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > > ------------------------------ > > End of avalon-digest V8 #112 > **************************** > > ======================================================================== > For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > info avalon-digest Heather Buch ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V8 #113 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest