From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V7 #305 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, September 13 2002 Volume 07 : Number 305 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? [DEAGLERR@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? ["John M. Gray" ] [AVALON] Geordie... ["Helen Thorpe" ] [AVALON] Gotta say this... ["Helen Thorpe" ] [AVALON] A Femail.co.uk article from Maggie [lalagrand@hotmail.com] [AVALON] Lucy Ferry inquiry ["Theresa Fagan" ] Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? [DEAGLERR@aol.com] RE: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? ["eRacerX" ] Re: [AVALON] The Next Sound You Hear ... [Aleks Kocan > That's what really pisses me off about the Brit-Tabloid reporting on BF. Here in the US, there's no class to betray. Anyone can be anyone they want to be, Here there's no pressure to change your accent, but some do. Some can feel more like themselves with a nose job. Some need to move to a New Town. Some prefer to change their name, appearance, etc., up to & including gender. It used too be an act of self preservation, & a way to insure personal freedom for light-skinned blacks to pass as white. Nowadays, every 16 year old suburban pip-squeak wants to do the Emenem thang, and pretend he;s a homeboy from Compton. Tina Brandon had to live as Brandon Tina in order to feel right in his/her skin. And paid a high price for his freedom to do so. There was a time when people were badmouthed for being (gasp) "show people" I'd imagine people in the UK do such things to their person/persona all the time. It just seem they get more flack about it for trying to pass. "massive strain"? I would assume Bryan Ferry is the natural creation of Bryan Ferry. I see Mr. Ferry as above class. And a marvelous thing to behold, he is. Said Mae West when asked "why don't you stay here with the rest of us? "'Cause I ain't like the rest of ya'" Regards, R Deagle NP Bowie/Changes ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:28:14 -0400 From: "John M. Gray" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? Hey, Paul Gascoigne thought he was a down and out "Geordie, born and bred" footballer. Shit, he wasn't even a footballer, never mind a Geordie (Yeh, I know he played for Rangers, bt now he's lucky to get a game for the New Zealand kangaroo rangers!!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? > In a message dated 9/12/02 4:56:20 PM, EddieLeyland@aol.com writes: > > << did he betray his working class roots, or did he outgrow his past? Would > any > body else do it? To pretend your something your not must be a massive strain, > >> > > > That's what really pisses me off about the Brit-Tabloid reporting on BF. > Here in the US, there's no class to betray. > Anyone can be anyone they want to be, > Here there's no pressure to change your accent, but some do. > > Some can feel more like themselves with a nose job. > Some need to move to a New Town. > Some prefer to change their name, appearance, etc., up to & including gender. > > It used too be an act of self preservation, & a way to insure personal > freedom for light-skinned blacks to pass as white. > Nowadays, every 16 year old suburban pip-squeak wants to do the Emenem thang, > and pretend he;s a homeboy from Compton. > > Tina Brandon had to live as Brandon Tina in order to feel right in his/her > skin. > And paid a high price for his freedom to do so. > > There was a time when people were badmouthed for being (gasp) "show people" > > I'd imagine people in the UK do such things to their person/persona all the > time. > It just seem they get more flack about it for trying to pass. > > "massive strain"? > I would assume Bryan Ferry is the natural creation of Bryan Ferry. > I see Mr. Ferry as above class. > And a marvelous thing to behold, he is. > > Said Mae West when asked "why don't you stay here with the rest of us? > "'Cause I ain't like the rest of ya'" > > Regards, R Deagle > > NP Bowie/Changes > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html > US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:49:46 -0500 From: "Paula Brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? > Like many of us out here in the real world, Mr Ferry used to be a > working class lad...Here's the question, did he sell out? Colleen>Yes, I think he should have stayed a working class lad all of his life and never ever used an iside toilet. And as long as you buy into this "selling out" nonsense, the ruling class has you right where it wants you.< I agree with Colleen. Perhaps it will help to remember that it was Ferry's parents who gave him aspirations. He's said in many interviews they were poor but had aspirations and alluded to the little things they did to introduce him to finer living, proper meal service, nice clothes even on a budget, and they exposed him to film, which raised his expectations as well. I think one of Ferry's greatest accomplishments and finer examples he has set is recreating himself. It takes boundless courage to become who you want to be rather than remain who you are. Bowie once said, "It's not who you are, it's who you want to be that counts." I think it's one of the important messages born of the glam era. Sincerely, Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:04:41 -0500 From: "Paula Brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? >I would assume Bryan Ferry is the natural creation of Bryan Ferry. I see Mr. Ferry as above class. And a marvelous thing to behold, he is. Said Mae West when asked "why don't you stay here with the rest of us? "'Cause I ain't like the rest of ya'" Regards, R Deagle< Good God, Deagle, you've got me all fired up with nowhere to go. What a great Mae West quote! Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:11:42 -0400 From: "Helen Thorpe" Subject: [AVALON] Ferry/Palmer Showdown Who's wearing what? Don't think these two would actually indulge in fisticuffs. AND - Is there any recordings of Remake/Remodel? Somehow, I don't think us North Americans are going to get the chance to see them. Cheers H ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:17:01 -0400 From: "Helen Thorpe" Subject: [AVALON] Geordie... I've heard a northern "twang" outta wor Bry, on a Much Music (Canadian MTV) interview from the Bete Noir tour. I don't know if it's been heard more recently as I find "music television" to be as thrilling as watching paint dry, most of the time. I've lost my Geordie accent, but it comes back whenever I'm back in Newcastle, or if I'm talking to anyone from north of the Humber, which isn't often considering where I live! H ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:25:11 -0400 From: "Helen Thorpe" Subject: [AVALON] Gotta say this... Jocelyn: Regarding your comment about dogs sniffing butts, and Geordies... Do you think this would make a good Avalonian Handshake? At least we'd be easy to spot. Better run it by TGPT and see what he thinks... a Jarra lad is usually down to earth and pragmatic. Nice to see you and the gang off galivanting around Europe and filling the rest of us in on what we're missing! (Can you spot the jealousy?) TTYL H ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:47:56 +0100 (BST) From: lalagrand@hotmail.com Subject: [AVALON] A Femail.co.uk article from Maggie Slave to love: Ferry's back in the dating game Bryan Ferry is back in the dating game - a fortnight after his wife announced their 20-year marria Full Story: http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/standard/article.html?in_article_id=136635&in_page_id=119 13 September 2002 http://www.femail.co.uk/ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:40:32 -0400 From: "Theresa Fagan" Subject: [AVALON] Lucy Ferry inquiry Is that Lucy Ferry in the print advert for Burberrys? It's the 8th picture over... http://www.burberry.com/ i saw a similar advert in (US) Vanity Fair's October issue. - --TriTri ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:55:36 EDT From: DEAGLERR@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? These musings on class, and American ambivalence to it, reminded me of an OLD (late 20's) joke about Carl Van Vechten. Mr. VV was a writer & photographer, and a tireless supporter and popularizer of the Harlem Renaissance folks. Since he was white, had money, could spot talent, and liked black men, (and a lot of them liked him back) it was a natural fit. He would throw parties where all sort of people would meet. Writers, artists, visiting royalty, folks with money, patrons of the arts, assorted tricks....everybody, would mingle. So... Lady Astor is getting out of her limousine at Grand Central Station, a Pullman Porter. picks up her luggage. "How are you today Miz Astor?" "Do I know you young man"? "Why sure, we met at Carl Van Vechten's party." Regards, R Deagle ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 00:10:31 -0400 From: "eRacerX" Subject: RE: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? >-----Original Message----- >From: EddieLeyland@aol.com >Like many of us out here in the real world, Mr Ferry used to be a working >class lad... > Here's the question, did he sell out? Not in D.C. http://www.930.com/printConcertList.php?v=930 Not yet, anyway. I bought Aimee Mann tix also. She hasn't sold out either, but Ryan Adams and Wilco have sold out two nights each. I would have gone to those shows. Looks like either Sleater-Kinney or Mooney Suzuki. I don't think any one on this list would choose those shows. I have 'done better' than my parents, so far. We come from working class people, blue collar workers. What kind of men my sons grow up to be, will be the determination of my family's ascent from the working class. I am merely an interim climber. A means to an end. I won't judge Bryan Ferry, providing he doesn't judge me, of course. I don't think he will mind. Are you asking if he has turned his back on the working class, then I ask: Does anyone know if Mr. Ferry has also played benefactor to his home town? He helped out his family, right? I feel that people who have, should give something back - you should 'tend' life like you tend a garden - a little clichi, but it works for me. I just hate it when capitalists screw the working class. http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/1817/01.pdf just babbling - H. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:36:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Billmann Subject: [AVALON] USA television Hey gang, who will be the first to hear of any BF appearances on American TV; someone on this list or the BF website? Mike Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Aleks Kocan Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Next Sound You Hear ... Mark It's quite true what you say about "not knowing the real reasons" behind Ferrys problems, and if you take the view that "its none of our business" then why choose to comment on a list-members choice to withdraw from the list? It seems that you have taken a "stand on the matter" and have "pandered to the gossip merchants". Aleks - --- Mark Yates wrote: > Of course its Pathetic, > To diss-own Ferry for a few articles written by the > "GUTTER PRESS" in order > that they may fill a few pages in there hypocritical > newspapers. > None of us know the real reasons behind the break up > and its none of our > business, If we take a stand on the matter we are > just pandering to the > gossip merchants. > and where does it end. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aleks Kocan" > > I don't think it's "pathetic" for someone to have > > their own views and principles. If their own views > > about such things are so strong, why don't we > respect > > that? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:17:01 +0000 From: "Tracy Connell" Subject: Re: [AVALON] A sell out or what! Who's kidding who? I agree Colleen, There's nothing wrong with wanting to do better for yourself if you have the resources to do it. I live in Newcastle now and certainly have aspirations. Why not do it if you can. In America you have Elvis. He grew up in poverty in Tupelo Mississippi. Was he supposed to stay there with his mother in poor health? My point is that there's nothing wrong with being upwardly mobile so long as you NEVER forget where you came from! I don't think Ferry has forgotten that. I've seen him talk about Newcastle often. Why shouldn't he want to give his kids what he thinks is best? Elvis never forgot his roots either. Rock stars can't live on a housing estate in Newcastle. They would be mobbed by fans every day. As for Bryan's accent, it used to be thought of as a good idea to tone down your accent as your job opportunites would improve. Many southerners can't understand a Geordie accent. That's my 2c worth anyway, Tracy >Ferry took care of his parents in their old age, did he not? (didn't he >bring his father to live with? near? him in comfort?) He constantly talks >about his childhood and its circumstances. Is not wanting to live in a >shack with the cows inside with you (or was it the sheep?) a crime? Is >all of that 'selling out'? In a world where power is largely determined >by money and status I think it'd be pretty silly to turn down those items >if and when they are offered to you. Furthermore, he's not pretending to >be anything other than what he is: a 'rock star' with good taste. > >Then again, I'm American and here the Horatio Alger stories still >resonate, albeit not quiet as loudly as a century ago. Nonetheless social >mobility is still considered an option and upward mobility an advantage. visit my websites: http://www.jamesmason.ic24.net http://www.roxyferry.ic24.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 03:26:47 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Bryan sings and Walt Disnae In a message dated 2002-09-13 00:16:52 GMT Daylight Time, owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org writes: > I suggest she stop listening to the art form known > as music, and buy herself the full collection of Disney Videos..... But have you any idea of the evil, child-exploitation, racist employment practices, anti-semitism, etc that's involved in producing even those??? Best wishes Richard Mills n/p BBC Radio 2 ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V7 #305 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest