From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V7 #283 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Sunday, August 25 2002 Volume 07 : Number 283 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Post from Elephant Talk ["Arnold Schulberg" ] RE: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? ["B i l l " ] RE: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? ["Heather James" ] [AVALON] The Scotsman Magazine [David Firmin ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:00:30 -0400 From: "Arnold Schulberg" Subject: [AVALON] Post from Elephant Talk This was posted in issue 1010 of Elephant Talk, The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts. Of course, it'd help the poster's credibility if he knew that it was Bryan, not Brian. Arnie Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:06:35 -0400 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: Roxy Music and P.G. The third Roxy Music album: Stranded has to be viewed as the logical(commercially minded) step for the band. I am in total agreement about the first two albums-but Stranded is FAR from commercial-it is the Night at the Opera and SGT Peppers of Roxy Music albums. We easilty discount good music that is graced with commercial success (granted-it's rare)- Stranded works on all the correct levels: song quality, stlye, production,surprise...Eddie Jobson became the musical glue, they understood what Eno brought to the band, but a better musician brought a more refined approach. Brian Ferry is so vastly underrated as a real artistic force-I know that the later Roxy music was a load of crap for the most part-only Viva Roxy Music( a SUPERB ALBUM IN IT'S OWN RIGHT) is worth anything.... but Brian Ferry always grew as a songwriter(brushing with unrefined genius) and a singer-he is as important an influence on 80's (low register-suave singers) as Elvis or John Lennon were for other artists. Unfortunately Stranded was the last hurrah-Country Life and Sirens were pale and shallow steps toward a larger audience, thankfully the live album Viva! contained almost all older material (except for two). The performances were incredibly inspired! One of the greatest live albums ever recorded.0 of Elephant Talk, the ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:16:26 -0400 From: "Ronald L. Stubbs" Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? To equate my pointing out the banality of your comment with sympathy for, or defense of, racism, is the type of rhetorical violence which middle-class white America seems to be very adept at. Nietzsche called it "ressentiment." Maybe next time you can try to make your points in a more sophisticated manner rather than debasing real racism by using grade-school-level logic to backhandedly slander other Avalonians about whom you know nothing. Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:26:39 -0400 From: "Heather James" Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? Of course - folks who sympathize with racism might take offense at what I said - 'spose thats bound to happen here and there - not that I'm callin' you a racist, you understand, just makin' a comment that folks with sensitive toes might want to be careful when hittin' the dance floor. >> Wow, that's DEEP! What is the empirical basis for your trite pop-anthropological pseudo-knowledge? >> Which are "decent," as opposed to "indecent," civilizations? Well - dress up your question in the prettiest terms you have, fill it with sarcasm and scholarly pretensions - it still sounds like you're defending a very ugly point of view ... But if I have to explain to you why racism is so ugly - why its so offensive to demean a group of people just because of their birth, I suspect you won't understand the point anyway. - -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:11:02 -0500 From: "B i l l " Subject: RE: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? I mostly lurk in anxious anticipation of critical news of BF& RM.. ...and I apologize in advance for even appearing to participate in this ... But....... Am I the only one who is had quite enough of this baseless (not to mention pointless) posturing & bickering that without doubt belongs ANYWHERE ELSE but on the list? Listening to diatribes is the last thing I expect to have to tolerate on any fan mailing list. Sincerely, BILL - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ronald L. Stubbs Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:16 AM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? To equate my pointing out the banality of your comment with sympathy for, or defense of, racism, is the type of rhetorical violence which middle-class white America seems to be very adept at. Nietzsche called it "ressentiment." Maybe next time you can try to make your points in a more sophisticated manner rather than debasing real racism by using grade-school-level logic to backhandedly slander other Avalonians about whom you know nothing. Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:26:39 -0400 From: "Heather James" Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? Of course - folks who sympathize with racism might take offense at what I said - 'spose thats bound to happen here and there - not that I'm callin' you a racist, you understand, just makin' a comment that folks with sensitive toes might want to be careful when hittin' the dance floor. >> Wow, that's DEEP! What is the empirical basis for your trite pop-anthropological pseudo-knowledge? >> Which are "decent," as opposed to "indecent," civilizations? Well - dress up your question in the prettiest terms you have, fill it with sarcasm and scholarly pretensions - it still sounds like you're defending a very ugly point of view ... But if I have to explain to you why racism is so ugly - why its so offensive to demean a group of people just because of their birth, I suspect you won't understand the point anyway. - -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:23:42 -0400 From: "Heather James" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? I swear, people continually wrap themselves in the mantel of high culture as a means of dismissing some of the most disagreeable behaviour possible. I fail to see why its acceptible to demean japanese society with a slur and yet my pointing out the shallowness of the comments and the rudeness of such behaviour serves as a reason to tar americans with a brush of verbal violence. Its not a logical construct - not an engineering problem to be resolved. But I gather its a slow week in avalon if you choose to attack my comments instead of the originator of this whole thread ... -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com My Music Trading Lists: http://www.thewebgal.com/trades/ The Roxy Music Archives: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ >==========================================================< - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Ronald L. Stubbs Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:16 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? To equate my pointing out the banality of your comment with sympathy for, or defense of, racism, is the type of rhetorical violence which middle-class white America seems to be very adept at. Nietzsche called it "ressentiment." Maybe next time you can try to make your points in a more sophisticated manner rather than debasing real racism by using grade-school-level logic to backhandedly slander other Avalonians about whom you know nothing. Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:26:39 -0400 From: "Heather James" Subject: [AVALON] Racist rhetoric? Of course - folks who sympathize with racism might take offense at what I said - 'spose thats bound to happen here and there - not that I'm callin' you a racist, you understand, just makin' a comment that folks with sensitive toes might want to be careful when hittin' the dance floor. >> Wow, that's DEEP! What is the empirical basis for your trite pop-anthropological pseudo-knowledge? >> Which are "decent," as opposed to "indecent," civilizations? Well - dress up your question in the prettiest terms you have, fill it with sarcasm and scholarly pretensions - it still sounds like you're defending a very ugly point of view ... But if I have to explain to you why racism is so ugly - why its so offensive to demean a group of people just because of their birth, I suspect you won't understand the point anyway. - -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Firmin Subject: [AVALON] The Scotsman Magazine The article as it appears in print. http://pub42.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=9954369&usernum=3542466064 *** Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://helios.unive.it/~tcecilia/meetup.html US ticket sale info: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ (updated weekly) ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V7 #283 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest