From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V7 #198 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Thursday, June 13 2002 Volume 07 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? [Aleks Kocan ] Re: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] OT posts [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] MUSIC INDUSTRY UNVEILS NEW PIRACY-PROOF FORMAT [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] The Frantic rehabilitation of Bryan Ferry ["paula brown" Subject: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? For what it's worth here are my views - this is just a personal opinion. I have no problem with "off-topic" posts appearing on the list providing it's all done in moderation - e.g The post about Elvis at number one or whatever didn't cause me a problem at all. I've found some "off-topic" discussions more useful and interesting than some of the "on-topic" stuff - e.g "Which CD burner to buy" is "off-topic" but I think still really had value for our community. It's down to the common sense of the individual to decide when something should be taken "off-list". There are some items that could be dealt with "off-list" - e.g thanking someone for a CD or whatever. If the problem is due to the amount of e-mails that are appearing, then maybe it's a case of a little bit more thought required before a post/reply is sent to the list? Even though the list is about Roxy/Ferry I'd hate to think that we all became little Ferry clones or whatever. Roxy/Ferry must be the main focus of this community, having said that, a sprinkle of "off-topic" subjects as and when they crop up seems to be a healthy approach. If we're not careful we'll end up self-destructing and creating a bad atmosphere. As they say "comments welcome" Aleks Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon-OT? On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Tracy Connell wrote: > So what happens when a BF/RM thread migrates to an off-topic subject as > the discussion goes on (as frequently happens) - does it get relegated > to 'Avalon-OT'? Or off-topic posts could turn into posts about RM/BF > and those not subscribed may miss something interesting. > > How do you draw the line about what is off-topic? I have some ideas for all of us to think about (by the way, I think of this as a conversation and a process, not a static situation, and I also want to make it clear I'm not going to remove anyone for the stray OT post), but I won't have a chance to put my thoughts in any sort of order until this evening at the earliest. I'm sorry for starting such a sensitive topic and then seeming to back away from it; it's just been a day or two from hell. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:46:31 +0100 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? Right on! I'm with Aleks on this, and would have written something had I been able to get brain in to gear. The thing is, all roads lead back to Roxy (mostly), or at least we have the ability to draw paralells and comparisons. And being the musical magpie that I am, it's always interesting to read about other artists. And if I don't want to read something, there's always that Trash button. It's a community, it's friendly (mostly) and mostly on-topic. There's a common interest in many things, not just Roxy, and some people like to share info. So long as we don't go off-topic talikng about stocks and shares and house prices... SimonG (I think I must be a hippy) >>> Aleks Kocan 06/12 9:59 am >>> For what it's worth here are my views - this is just a personal opinion. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:10:24 +0200 From: "kartor@libertysurf.fr" Subject: [AVALON] DVD review in UNCUT magazine A good review of the "Live at the Apollo" DVD in UNCUT July issue:"Ferry overcomes his secret shyness to give an effusive display, as in late 2001 a regrouped Roxy round off their first tour for 18 years.The perfectionism of all concerned means no myths get corroded.If Hammersmith Apollo isn't too glamorous, Bryan wears it well; as do a fleet of game showgirls. Those deathless songs, from the Pop hits to avant-art-rockers, woo the galaxy again for two hours." **** (four stars) Caroline from Paris - -------------- Profitez de l'offre exceptionnelle Tiscali ! "Internet Gratuit le Jour" Cliquez ici, http://register.tiscali.fr/forfaits_ls/ Offre soumise ` conditions. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:34:23 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Galloway To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? > > And being the musical magpie that I am, it's always interesting to read about other artists. And if I don't want to read something, there's always that Trash button. > > SimonG > (I think I must be a hippy) Yeh, I'd go with this. We are all old enough (god, today I feel like Methusila) and intelligent enough to hit the delete button before the "little enveolope" has a chance to open if we are not interested in a topic. I personally have had some very rewarding mail due to OT posts. Terry "O" Who will go with the majority. (Today). ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:33:05 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] who's who at summer gigs - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:44 AM Subject: [AVALON] who's who at summer gigs > http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html > > Rome stays at the list top and seems to be the most wanted. > Maybe because most UK-Avalonians haven't written to me so far. > > > > > Cecilia > ~~~~~~~~~~ Cecilia, great meetup site, but I can't see Knebworth House on the 20th July on the list. Is this show still going ahead?. Anyone can let me know, Thanks. Terry "O" ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:17:08 -0500 (CDT) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) Subject: [AVALON] Re: This topic, that topic We talk art galleries, pictorial gardens/homes, magazines, cars ,clothes, sunglasses, old/new pics. cost of tickets,meeting places, best prices on anything,equipment, stage lighting, what food he/she ate , shoes, car rides , trainrides, this CD that CD,This artist, that artist, etc. IMHO IT EVENTUALLY ALL LEADS BACK TO FERRY. RIGHT? The reason we all joined Avalon. Marlana................................................ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:48:01 -0400 From: "Grant Goggans" Subject: Re: [AVALON] OT posts >Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:41:26 -0400 >From: "Victor Hastings" >Subject: Re: [AVALON] OT posts, or "what's it all about, Alfie?" > >Let me suggest a solution to the problem Colleen addresses. (I've already >discussed it with her offlist, and she supports it enthusiastically.) > >We need a second list -- "Avalon-OT," if you will. One would be free to >subscribe to it as well as -- or in lieu of -- the original Avalon list. A split isn't a bad idea, but I would argue that splitting it On-Topic/Off-Topic is not the way to go. The potential problem I see is this: It's going to be very easy for a bunch of Roxy fans to turn any discussion (in whatever context: influences, charts, record company shenanigans, who wore what to this show, CDR trading, meeting celebrity stories, etc) back to Bryan Ferry. Take two recent examples: announcements on Avalon of film retrospectives of Greta Garbo and calls to buy Elvis singles. Now if these announcements were made on the Off-Topic list (or on the ON-Topic list and told "Take it to Avalon-OT") then further discussion would be inevitable. It's very easy to imagine a bunch of Bryan Ferry fans discussing Garbo and coming around to "The 39 Steps," and Elvis, whom Bry has covered at least three times I think ("Are You Lonesome Tonight?," "Don't Be Cruel" and possibly "Loving You is Sweeter Than Ever") could lead to all sorts of topics. Consequently, unless someone plans to moderate Avalon-OT to say, "I'm sorry, your discussion has become ON topic, take it back to Avalon," then readers will have to subscribe to both lists in order to enjoy all the discussions, which forces me to wonder what the point of two separate lists would be. Especially considering that the chief objection, as I understand it, is the waste of bandwidth for off-topic postings. Well, what's a greater waste of space? One 35k digest a day with occasional references to Greta Garbo, Elvis Presley, David Bowie and jokes about record piracy, or two digests a day from two different lists? What I would propose instead is this: split Avalon into two completely distinct entities, one without moderation and one with moderator approval for every post (like Elephant Talk). That way, people who are genuinely concerned about their bandwidth and the cost-per-minute of their dial-up can choose the "Elephant Talk" forum, which could be called "Chance Meeting" or something, knowing in advance that each and every post will be exclusively about Roxy Music. Further, since this forum's moderator will be pre-approving each post, then both the mod and the members will know that people will only be submitting posts to the forum if they have something both topical and important to share. Meanwhile, people who do not mind when conversations drift into other subjects are free to choose the unmoderated list, which would be a lot like Avalon now, only without the occasional "keep it on topic" intrusions. I would think that it still needs some level of control to prevent personal attacks and illegal sales of bootlegs, but off-topic drift, which has proven in the past to be short-lived and policed by the members, would be acceptable. After all, those members not interested in Garbo, Elvis, Bowie and jokes about record piracy can certainly press "delete" and other readers can enjoy them. - --Grant _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] OT posts On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Grant Goggans wrote: > What I would propose instead is this: split Avalon into two completely > distinct entities, one without moderation and one with moderator approval > for every post (like Elephant Talk). Very quickly from me: I'm completely opposed to the idea of a moderated Avalon. I can't see that there is any need for that whatsoever. What I'm talking about is a little bit of thinking before filling in the address lines of messages and a gentle focusing of the conversation on the list. I don't think there is a need for drastic measures. I've opened up a conversation, not an inquisition. More later. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:52:27 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] MUSIC INDUSTRY UNVEILS NEW PIRACY-PROOF FORMAT Sorry if this is OT :) But when and where did this article come from, Simon? While reading it, I could not help but think the report an aberration or hoax. Let's see; Nicknamed the 'Record', the new format takes the form of a black vinyl disc measuring 12 inches in diameter, which must be played on a specially designed 'turntable'." Sounds like old fashioned vinyl to me! The stuff I grew up playing on old fashioned turntables at 33 1/3 revolutions per minute! Hence it's 'format' seems peculiarly familiar - '... raw audio data in the form of music is encoded by physically etching grooves onto the vinyl disc." The article reveals: "We can state with absolute certainty that no computer in the world can access the data on this disc," said spokesman Brett Campbell. And I would agree: no computer can (directly) read the data grooves on a vinyl record. That their crack-code wizards were unable to, "As part of the invention's rigorous testing process ... Despite several days of trying, none of them were able to hack into the disc's code or access any of the music files contained within it.", is no surprise. But give them a real turntable, and they'll probably freak! "It's like, really big and stuff," said Doug Flamboise, one of the testers. "I couldn't get it into any of my drives. I mean what format is it? Is it, like, from France or something?" Yah, like, from France or something - wonder if he even knows where France is. Off The Wall, Jaded Mandarin ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:05:48 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] on-topic? off-topic? on-list? off-list? I fully agree with Aleks' point of view. Very well put, young man! My initial reaction to the suggestion of an OT Avalon List does not sit well. But if we must go that route, I will just have to learn to live with it. BTW, have now read the 'Off-list' communiqui between Bahi and Paula. Glad to know the article was a joke. A good one, too. Thanks, Simon! Best wishes. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:59:23 -0700 From: "mark shanahan" Subject: Re: [AVALON] not very ferry topics - bad - *BAD* i have to agree here, though i would just suggest people use common sense and some brevity. make it easy to read - for those of us with 3rd grade educations (am i the *only* one??). personally, my connection happens to be rather slow and i have my mail configured to go to the next message (upon deletion of the current message). it would be great to know ahead if it's something i don't really want to read, but delete at that point is still manageable for me. i _would_ talk about the shoes i buy, but they're not italian loafers i bought in corsica, so what's the point? and my roses aren't doing well this year (uh, because i don't have any). i'll try to keep my posts _on_ topic, but i really don't see any harm in telling people that there's a rash of garbo films on TCM this month, etc. splitting this list is (no offense) an *awful* idea, IMHO. i do wish there were more topics of discussion going on currently; many that are offered do seem to die an untimely death. but the best way to get something going is to offer something up. i still would like to review 'frantic', but this is about as much as i can do right now. whatever we do - just no more 'is ferry gay?' discussions - **please** ... thank you. peaces/ms _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com<-----Original Message-----> >From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (M.M.K.) >We talk art galleries, pictorial gardens/homes, magazines, cars >,clothes, sunglasses, old/new pics. cost of tickets,meeting places, best >prices on anything,equipment, stage lighting, what food he/she ate , >shoes, car rides , trainrides, this CD that CD,This artist, that artist, >etc. IMHO IT EVENTUALLY ALL LEADS BACK TO FERRY. RIGHT? The reason we >all joined Avalon. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:20:32 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] not very ferry topics - bad - *BAD* Mark hints a preference: "... just no more 'is ferry gay?' discussions - **please** ... thank you." I would agree. Ferry is not gay. But he definitely knows how to successfully play to the gay psyche! Not a Bad Jahlala. Well, Mark 'did' bring it up! ;^) ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:46:25 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] not very ferry topics - bad - *BAD* - ----- Original Message ----- From: KB Porter To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] not very ferry topics - bad - *BAD* > Mark hints a preference: "... just no more 'is ferry gay?' > discussions - **please** > ... thank you." He seemed very upset when his Johnny went AWOL! Terry "O" ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:44:52 +0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?SWduYWNpbyBQZXly8w==?=" Subject: [AVALON] Two RM-BF groups (in Spanish) These are the links of two spanish yahoo groups on RM-BF; I thougt it might be interesting if you feel in the mood to go and check it or, for those of you who read Spanish, it may also be an amusing way to improve it. In the "Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music club" there are 16 members, and it has been online for quite a long time. On the other hand, the "Roxypress" group has only two members: the founder and me... It's not that I'm crazy, it's only that I used the "search" button :) http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/bryanferryandroxymusicclub/ http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/roxypress/ I hope those of you going to any of the concerts scheduled will have a good time. Best regards, Ignacio Peyro _________________________________________________________________ Envme y reciba su correo de Hotmail desde el msvil: http://mobile.msn.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:05:03 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: [AVALON] The Dylan Songs on Frantic..... Because the air quality is code 'orange' and it is insufferably hot and humid outside, I am duty bound to be indoors today. And since I'm currently on a sugar rush from Jolly Rancher I have decided to write about the above topic. No flaming please, for what I am about to write is not in a pleasant vein. HoHum. "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" and "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right", the first and fifth songs off "Frantic", respectively. My paramount objection is simple: If you are going to do cover songs on an album, then do no more than one selection per artist. Here, we are subjected to two covers of Bob Dylan songs. Never mind that these two are nicely covered with skill. (Lucy's 'vulgar' use of the violin, an orchestral instrument, is very nicely used in IAON,BB where perhaps the bluesy - folksy number might have been covered by a lesser artist than Ferry utilizing a fiddle!) I feel if BF is so enamored with Dylan's writing capabilities, then Mr. Ferry should release an entire album of Dylan covers - call it 'the bob and bryan show' or some such nonsense. Had I to choose which of the two Dylan covers should be on "Frantic", I'd prefer "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right". I enjoy the easy atmospheric 'go with the flow' of true life happenings treatment of this piece. I feel Colin Good's performance and arrangement are indispensable as his activity fully supports and showcases Bryan Ferry's distinctive voice and masterful harmonica playing. DTT,IAR is an excellent cover! I feel Frantic's IAON,BB is a very poor choice as an album opener. Colin Good's orchestral arrangement is subtle, soothing and exciting. This cover is very good, but not an album opener - especially since it is in violation of my paramount objection. Akin to my stated peeve, I wish to address the totally unimaginative, stupefying selection of THREE Dylan songs being performed during recent concerts. Three songs of 18 or 19 played is ~ one sixth of all the selections offered up! WHY?! Does Ferry wish to morph into Dylan? Why not just get Bob up on stage, too - the tour could be called 'the bobbin bry frantic tour' or some such nonsense. Why isn't Ferry doing Ferry en tour? I am a Ferry fan - his original material is preferred, occasional covers are expectable - not 1/6th of a show devoted to Dylan or any other artist!!! Disagree, why? Any thoughts out there? Golly my head hurts from all this thinking, the sugar rush is gone. Best wishes, all. KBP P.S. - I shall write more on my impressions of "Frantic" at a later date. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:02:32 +0000 From: richarde66@mac.com Subject: [AVALON] The Frantic rehabilitation of Bryan Ferry Roxy Music has always been one of my favourite groups and a result Bryan's work also fills my CD space. Since BSB I have been largely disappointed with his solo work and although at first I felt fairly ambiguous towards Frantic, regular playing has changed my opinion. The Roxy Music tour ( and DVD) has given something back to Ferry and it shows in Frantic. This step back to the past has not only been of benefit to Bryan but also to David Bowie with his new CD Heathen and Brian Wilson's new Live Pet Sounds CD. Both are excellent and should be bought, but the common thread is that each seem to be re-discovering what made them great in the first place - Bowie teaming up with Visconti and Wilson revisiting what for many is the greatest album ever made. For our man Mr Ferry, he has rediscovered the beat, something which quite clearly shows through on Frantic and judging from the recent BBC show also on stage. The fact he went back into the studio to re-do some of the Frantic songs after the Roxy tour, does IMHO show that working within the Roxy set up gave him the spark to re-examine his work. Frantic is his best solo work since the Bride and I'm glad to eat humble pie full of my first impressions. And know I am looking forward to a great gig in October Cheers Richard ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:11:01 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Dylan Songs on Frantic..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: KB Porter To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:05 PM Subject: [AVALON] The Dylan Songs on Frantic..... > Akin to my stated peeve, I wish to address the totally > unimaginative, stupefying selection of THREE Dylan songs > being performed during recent concerts. Three songs of 18 > or 19 played is ~ one sixth of all the selections offered > up! WHY?! Does Ferry wish to morph into Dylan? Why not > just get Bob up on stage, too - the tour could be called > 'the bobbin bry frantic tour' or some such nonsense. > > Why isn't Ferry doing Ferry en tour? I am a Ferry fan - his > original material is preferred, occasional covers are > expectable - not 1/6th of a show devoted to Dylan or any > other artist!!! > Oh dear KB, you have got your knickers in a twist havn't you, it must be the "Orange" air your breathing (can't be healthy), perhaps you should change to Vodaphone, anyway I digress. I thought 3 Dylan covers was a bit OTT for the Belfast show, but we all have our favourite artists which get played until we need to get away from them for a couple of days. Perhaps Bryans the same, he's just on a Dylan kick at the moment, but the thought of having the miserable old git on stage with Bryan is mortifying. IAON,BB is not my favourite track on Frantic, but it is lively & spirited, attributes I think have been missing from Ferrys music for over 20 years, for this I am grateful. I would love to see Bryan do a "Ferry original" tour, BUT the Ferry solo thing has never ever been about his own compositions, it started with "A hard Rains", so it's only right we should get a good cross section of Fery live. I, as you probably know wish for Ferry Solo only shows this year, but I'm going to get DTS/LITD/JG et all. I'm told that the paymasters for the tour insist on the aforementiond tracks, so cheers to David Bowie for his set list from New York last night. Brave Man. Terry "O" PS: I hope you get confirmation of dates near you soon. ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:16:11 +0100 From: "Duncan Watkins" Subject: [AVALON] I thought(that looked familiar)/CD 'rot' The cover photo of 'Frantic' has always looked familiar to me and then today I found out why: It has already been used on the 'inner sleeve' of my 1987! 'The Right Stuff' CD single-without ageing efects of course! When was this photo actually taken?-presumably at least 15 years ago! BTW whilst looking through my BF CDs, has anybody else noticed the serious deterioration on the 'play' side of the 'Taxi' CDs-I suggest you take a look!.They still play (just) but I have copied them all to be safe. Spoke to SimonG about this and he gave me the technical lowdown about why this was happening-something about 'worms'?! Regards, Duncan. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:10:32 +0100 From: "thom.wallace" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Dylan Songs on Frantic..... I'm not overly impresed by these tracks either, it occurs to me that "Don't Think Twice" would have been better left to a live only performance. Having said that it could have been worse, there were around five demo tracks of Dylan songs prepared in the summer of 2000. I thought "Simple Twist of Fate" would have been more likely to make it to the album. When I heard them I couldn't help but think why is he bothering with this stuff when he has some trully excellent material waiting for release. Sadly we didn't get much of that material on Frantic, the rerecordings of the Ferry/Stewart tracks has in my opinion lessened the material, so much so that "San Simeon" sounds like a vocal run through when compared to the original version. Like "Don't Think Twice" I feel that the version of "Fool for Love" in its Frantic form would have been best left to a live only appearence. To me Frantic is not a bad album, but just a very ordinary one, it could have been/should have been a great one. All the best, Tom. You can also contact me at: TomWallace@vivaroxymusic.com ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:57:46 -0400 From: "M" Subject: [AVALON] B+P offer: RM in Sydney 2001 Thanks to the generosity of Waz, I can offer Memento, a recording of Roxy Music in Sydney 2001, to the first eight people who respond, four of whom will also make copies available. I listened to it yesterday (no, not while exercising - I listened to Kylie!) and it's an excellent recording. The 'Goggans' rules apply: 1. Be willing to send two good-quality blanks and a SASE for your copy. 2. Be one of the first eight people to reply to this offer. 3. Tell me whether you will be continuing this offer to Avalon. 4. Reply by Friday, June 14. . 5. Understand that if you don't hear back from me, you must take my silence as a polite apology, that you were not one of the first eight. (But you have nothing to lose in trying!) 6. Reply to me, and not the list. That would be especially silly considering the reply-to. 7. Feel free to write a short spoof or tell me something funny when you reply to the offer. M ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A young New Yorker called M Was frequently seen with old men Described as fantastic She preferred lots of plastic Especially Barbie and Ken. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:04:24 -0500 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Frantic rehabilitation of Bryan Ferry >From: richarde66@mac.com This step back to the past has not only been of benefit to Bryan but also to David Bowie with his new CD Heathen< It's certainly an interesting phenomenon, a bit like being influenced by yourself. I empathize with the whole thing a lot because I sort of rediscovered my earlier identities too and don't really know why yet. But whatever it is, it's good. I'm just listening to the Bowie this afternoon. I'm only in four cuts. I know it's fairly good because the first cut made me scribble poetry while driving, but I won't say I've loved all 4 cuts -- yet anyway. Still, if there is one truly classic return-to-form Bowie/Visconti cut on the CD, it will be one more than we've had in some time and very welcome. Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: [AVALON] does traffic make off-topic on-topic? If so... First, I want to thank Victor for his suggestion: > We need a second list -- "Avalon-OT," if you will. One would be free to > subscribe to it as well as -- or in lieu of -- the original Avalon list. > > The Avalon-OT list would be medium for Avalonians to discuss matters not > related to RM/BF -- Elvis, David Sylvain, whatever. The original Avalon > list wouldremain staunchly focused on RM/BF, and anyone posting OT > material to that list would be politely redirected to Avalon-OT. (Not > to mention flamed, killfiled and/or unsubscribed, depending on the > situation.) This is a pretty standard set-up on many lists--a splinter list, if you will, where anything goes. > I have no idea what administrative burden the second list might impose. > Nor do I know whether smoe.org would agree to host the second list, > although for sentimental reasons I hope "they" would. But I think > Colleen's comments are well founded, and I hope this idea helps. As I shared with Victor, I'm reluctant to impose upon the folks at smoe.org since they're already doing us the favor of hosting Avalon. But this is a case where I think Yahoogroups.com is a great idea. You can set up a list with open enrollment and the admin burden is relatively limited. It's an option if folks think it is necessary. Which brings me to two things I wanted to comment on re: the responses to the off-topic subject. First: one is the response which is along the lines of "if you don't like it or don't want to read it, delete it." I am not sure this is the right way to approach this, and for two reasons. Part one is very specific one: the folks at smoe.org give us their resources for free to run this list. I think this is a pretty compelling reason to keep the bandwidth usage and system burdens on smoe.org down to a reasonable level (this also includes trimming posts, etc.). I know a number of folks think "just delete the #*@*& thing," and in an ad service like Yahoogroups, etc., I understand that. But we're the guests of others, and I think that basic respect for their limited resources should be shown. Did I mention they are providing us with a list service for free, and without annoying ads? The second part is more general: you know, I'm not sure that it's an appropriate response (although I certainly understand the reasoning behind it) to say "just delete it." I think it's one thing to be on a list devoted to, say, dinosaurs, and to be consistently annoyed by list members who keep saying dinosaurs evolved from birds if that isn't your take on the issue. In that case, it might be appropriate to suggest that someone else just deal with the fact you disagree or whatever. However, I think it's an entirely different story if on that dinosaur list there is a person who consistently posts about bread baking and that is the response when they are asked to cease. If you are on a list about a specific subject, is it really appropriate to just tell folks to delete your messages if they don't like it? Is it polite, really, to do so? Don't we sign up for mailing lists because we're interested in the topic? And so is it unreasonable for us to expect that the great majority of messages on a mailing list would concern the professed topic of the mailing list? (Also, for what it's worth, I've had occasion to peruse not just the Neil Young list Keith notes, but one of the other major ones as well. I find the amount of off-topic stuff to be really off-putting to making conversation.) Which leads me to the second of my larger topics about off-topic posting, that of the idea that "all roads lead to Roxy." It's true--enough convolutions, and eventually even compost heap gardening end up at Roxy (up the challenge, Simon?). I freely admit that it's not always clear cut as to whether something is on-topic or not. But in this case I offer something my friend Marck Bailey--for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect--who runs the Tongue in The Mail list (for Split Enz/Crowded House/Finn Brothers discussions) wrote for that list. You can find it at: http://www.etext.org/house/guidelines/relevance.html, and I invite interested parties to read through it. And as you read it you should also keep in mind that the Tongue, as it's fondly known, is about 5x as big as Avalon, so some sort of parameters are needed. I think it's pretty sensible: it allows discussion but it doesn't take the list down the road to eventually being, like Jerry Seinfeld's ersatz sitcom, "about nothing." Let me assure everyone: I realize the list won't be 100% On Topic all the time. Nor--surprise, surprise--do I think it should be. Furthermore, I'm certainly not going to automatically kick people off for posting off-topic. But I would like for us to think about these things, as this is an ongoing process, really, and not something static. Finally, if something is really and truly totally and completely off-topic, yet absolutely you have to share it with us or you will absolutely burst, of course you should share it with us. However, I will note that this works best if your normal contributions to the list are almost always on-topic and substantive. Or at least on-topic and amusing. What's also good is if you can combine it with something on-topic. See--there are always ways around it. And isn't that part of the fun of it? ;-) I know I owe a number of you private emails on this subject, and I hope to find the time to respond over the next few days. Thank you to everyone who has participated and who has endured this discussion. I'm available via private mail to others who are interested in this topic. Colleen p.s. special to Mark Yates: black high heels ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:56:35 -0700 From: "Keith Shockley" Subject: Re: [AVALON] does traffic make off-topic on-topic? If so... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Colleen Matan To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: [AVALON] does traffic make off-topic on-topic? If so... Ok I'm against a second list...I say just label your off-topic posts -OT. I remember a list member losing a family pet a while back and yes I thought that was worth sharing w/ the group. As someone else said...we are a community. We should take the bad with the good. I genuinely care about several people here, some whom I have never met. So I think perhaps just a little moderation is in order here...just no more "dream" posts. Keith NP: I've Been Waiting for You / David Bowie > First, I want to thank Victor for his suggestion: > > > We need a second list -- "Avalon-OT," if you will. One would be free to > > subscribe to it as well as -- or in lieu of -- the original Avalon list. > > > > The Avalon-OT list would be medium for Avalonians to discuss matters not > > related to RM/BF -- Elvis, David Sylvain, whatever. The original Avalon > > list wouldremain staunchly focused on RM/BF, and anyone posting OT > > material to that list would be politely redirected to Avalon-OT. (Not > > to mention flamed, killfiled and/or unsubscribed, depending on the > > situation.) > > This is a pretty standard set-up on many lists--a splinter list, if you > will, where anything goes. > > > I have no idea what administrative burden the second list might impose. > > Nor do I know whether smoe.org would agree to host the second list, > > although for sentimental reasons I hope "they" would. But I think > > Colleen's comments are well founded, and I hope this idea helps. > > As I shared with Victor, I'm reluctant to impose upon the folks at > smoe.org since they're already doing us the favor of hosting Avalon. But > this is a case where I think Yahoogroups.com is a great idea. You can set > up a list with open enrollment and the admin burden is relatively limited. > It's an option if folks think it is necessary. > > Which brings me to two things I wanted to comment on re: the responses to > the off-topic subject. > > First: one is the response which is along the lines of "if you don't like > it or don't want to read it, delete it." I am not sure this is the right > way to approach this, and for two reasons. > > Part one is very specific one: the folks at smoe.org give us their > resources for free to run this list. I think this is a pretty compelling > reason to keep the bandwidth usage and system burdens on smoe.org down to > a reasonable level (this also includes trimming posts, etc.). I know a > number of folks think "just delete the #*@*& thing," and in an ad service > like Yahoogroups, etc., I understand that. But we're the guests of > others, and I think that basic respect for their limited resources should > be shown. Did I mention they are providing us with a list service for > free, and without annoying ads? > > The second part is more general: you know, I'm not sure that it's an > appropriate response (although I certainly understand the reasoning behind > it) to say "just delete it." I think it's one thing to be on a list > devoted to, say, dinosaurs, and to be consistently annoyed by list members > who keep saying dinosaurs evolved from birds if that isn't your take on > the issue. In that case, it might be appropriate to suggest that someone > else just deal with the fact you disagree or whatever. > > However, I think it's an entirely different story if on that dinosaur list > there is a person who consistently posts about bread baking and that is > the response when they are asked to cease. If you are on a list about a > specific subject, is it really appropriate to just tell folks to delete > your messages if they don't like it? Is it polite, really, to do so? > Don't we sign up for mailing lists because we're interested in the topic? > And so is it unreasonable for us to expect that the great majority of > messages on a mailing list would concern the professed topic of the > mailing list? (Also, for what it's worth, I've had occasion to peruse > not just the Neil Young list Keith notes, but one of the other major ones > as well. I find the amount of off-topic stuff to be really off-putting to > making conversation.) > > Which leads me to the second of my larger topics about off-topic posting, > that of the idea that "all roads lead to Roxy." It's true--enough > convolutions, and eventually even compost heap gardening end up at Roxy > (up the challenge, Simon?). > > I freely admit that it's not always clear cut as to whether something is > on-topic or not. But in this case I offer something my friend Marck > Bailey--for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect--who runs the > Tongue in The Mail list (for Split Enz/Crowded House/Finn Brothers > discussions) wrote for that list. You can find it at: > http://www.etext.org/house/guidelines/relevance.html, and I invite > interested parties to read through it. And as you read it you should also > keep in mind that the Tongue, as it's fondly known, is about 5x as big as > Avalon, so some sort of parameters are needed. I think it's pretty > sensible: it allows discussion but it doesn't take the list down the road > to eventually being, like Jerry Seinfeld's ersatz sitcom, "about nothing." > > Let me assure everyone: I realize the list won't be 100% On Topic all the > time. Nor--surprise, surprise--do I think it should be. Furthermore, I'm > certainly not going to automatically kick people off for posting > off-topic. But I would like for us to think about these things, as this > is an ongoing process, really, and not something static. > > Finally, if something is really and truly totally and completely > off-topic, yet absolutely you have to share it with us or you will > absolutely burst, of course you should share it with us. However, I will > note that this works best if your normal contributions to the list are > almost always on-topic and substantive. Or at least on-topic and amusing. > What's also good is if you can combine it with something on-topic. > See--there are always ways around it. And isn't that part of the fun of > it? ;-) > > I know I owe a number of you private emails on this subject, and I hope to > find the time to respond over the next few days. Thank you to everyone > who has participated and who has endured this discussion. I'm available > via private mail to others who are interested in this topic. > > Colleen > p.s. special to Mark Yates: black high heels > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon > Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Avalonians on tour 2002: http://web.tiscali.it/cecilya/roxy/meetup.html ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V7 #198 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest