From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V7 #68 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, February 26 2002 Volume 07 : Number 068 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["paula brown" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [David Firmin ] [AVALON] Socal Danse Society List Meet [RoxyMuzick@AOL.COM] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["paula brown" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Socal Danse Society List Meet ["paula brown" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [Johnny Reece ] [AVALON] What Kind of Fool am I? ["Kari Solberg" ] Re: [AVALON] What Kind of Fool am I? ["N. S. Koff" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["notdixon" ] [AVALON] Hat eating time. ["thom.wallace" ] Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. ["N. S. Koff" ] Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. [Helchat@AOL.COM] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["tmoq" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Brain ["The Bogus Man" ] Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. [Aleks Kocan ] [AVALON] Bantic fran [Chandla911@AOL.COM] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:00:21 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban "not that I think it was the wrong single to pull," Although you copied my quote, I wonder if you overlooked this line since that is the implication. Also, you're assuming core fans don't have any broader perspective. I'm a core fan, and I could pick commercial singles all day long. Paula - ----- Original Message ----- From: Colleen Matan Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:27 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, paula brown wrote: > You're right about the singles. Sometimes the wrong ones are > pulled. Or it may be that the right one is pulled for the lowest common > denominator of radio but that the core fans will place that song pretty > far down on their list. Not that I don't like Love is the Drug and not > that I think it was the wrong single to pull, but how many big fans will > even cite that as a favorite from Siren, much less over Sentimental > Fool? I've always thought the fan club prez should make those > decisions, personally, unless the label has a core fan on the payroll. I can't think of a more insular group of people who should not be trusted with a decision which needs the broadest viewpoint possible in order to be successful. You offer the perfect example: Love Is The Drug v. Sentimental Fool. Choosing one meant a huge hit for Roxy. Choosing the other would have ensured they and Mr. Ferry would never had a large following in the United States. Marketing decisions are best made by people who have an understanding and overview of the market they are trying to tap, and who can make the unemotional and rational choice and not by a bunch of people arguing over which guitar pick the lead guitarist used on October 12, 1961 gave the best sound in the middle 482.30 seconds of the concert on bootleg recording #89271. > Which reminds me to bring one thing up. I've heard a lot of people > on the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or > personnel ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I > can't imagine having such a wealth of information and feedback available > to you and not taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of > experts at your disposal free of charge. If they don't do it, they're > crazy.......Paula Actually, in my experience, this particular interaction is only successful if the artist(s) and/or management in question have a very strong sense of self, and if s/he/they have enough distance from the material and performances to read the comments for what they are. Otherwise it's just a big mess of hurt feelings, power trips, and the like. Furthermore, speaking for myself, I participate in these fora not as part of a[n unpaid] market research project, but as a fan. Frankly, I'd resent my participation being treated as such without my participation. If the artist(s) and/or management would like to participate in the spirit of the mailing list, newsgroup, bulletin board or whatever, fine. But these fan-based sites, such Avalon, are not meant primarily to serve as conduits for free and lazy research, nor should the tenor of their discussion be tempered by a fear that by honestly will ruin the chances to get backstage or whatnot for that's what I think poisons fan fora. [Or maybe it's just me. After all, I'm not part of The In Crowd. There are no tickets or backstage passes left for me. I suppose I could learn to bite my tongue and by doing so charm my way into those situations (maybe under a fake name at this point, ahahaha). But I'd rather have the chance to speak freely than not. Erm. How did I end up in Speaker's Corner?] Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:57:50 -0800 From: David Firmin Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban I know for a fact that Andy, Paul and Chris read their message boards and forums. I don't know about Phil, but Bryan has visited his forum. I even captured the screen for this rare occurrence. See link below: http://home.ix.netcom.com/~dfirmin/fezletter.jpg David *** on 2/25/02 1:12 PM, paula brown at Lostribe@msn.com wrote: > Which reminds me to bring one thing up. I've heard a lot of people on > the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or personnel > ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine > having such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not > taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of experts at your disposal > free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy.......Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:05:09 EST From: RoxyMuzick@AOL.COM Subject: [AVALON] Socal Danse Society List Meet OK Socal Rivetheads, Goths and 80's alternative music fans pick a club and let's go for it here are the ones I go to and know are good: Tuesday - Club Mannequin Long Beach http://www.members.aol.com/MannequinClub/ Thursday - Club Perversion Hollywood http://www.perversionhollywood.com Friday - Club Clockwork Orange Hollywood http://www.clockworkorangehollywood.com Saturday - Club Stigmata Hollywood http://www.stigmatahollywood.com Sunday - Club Dungeon Hollywood http://www.dungeonhollywood.com There are pictures of the clubs, people and playlists at the websites. Take a vote and we'll all meet up! All I can offer are possible venues anybody who is good at organizing can probably think of a way to meet like posting pictures of attendees on a web address and we should have a photographer from the list to immortalize the night. Gregory RoxyMuzick@aol.com http://hometown.aol.com/roxymuzick/myhomepage/profile.html ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:15:17 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban I remember that. Such a shame that some jerk forced Bryan to have to make a statement when he had no control over that jackass. Paula - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Firmin Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:13 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban I know for a fact that Andy, Paul and Chris read their message boards and forums. I don't know about Phil, but Bryan has visited his forum. I even captured the screen for this rare occurrence. See link below: http://home.ix.netcom.com/~dfirmin/fezletter.jpg David *** on 2/25/02 1:12 PM, paula brown at Lostribe@msn.com wrote: > Which reminds me to bring one thing up. I've heard a lot of people on > the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or personnel > ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine > having such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not > taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of experts at your disposal > free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy.......Paula ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:27:33 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Johnny Reece wrote: > --- Colleen Matan wrote: > > > not by a bunch of people arguing over which guitar > > pick the lead guitarist used on October 12, 1961 > gave the best sound in the middle 482.30 seconds of > the concert on bootleg recording #89271. >> > > > Ah, you're referring to the Gibson SG721F Pick, > obviously. But rub it in, why don't you. It's the > only damn bootleg I don't have. Well, maybe you should have been nicer to me last summer on Cape Code then. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:35:17 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Socal Danse Society List Meet All those websites are suspiciously similar! P - ----- Original Message ----- From: RoxyMuzick@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:07 PM To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: [AVALON] Socal Danse Society List Meet OK Socal Rivetheads, Goths and 80's alternative music fans pick a club and let's go for it here are the ones I go to and know are good: Tuesday - Club Mannequin Long Beach http://www.members.aol.com/MannequinClub/ Thursday - Club Perversion Hollywood http://www.perversionhollywood.com Friday - Club Clockwork Orange Hollywood http://www.clockworkorangehollywood.com Saturday - Club Stigmata Hollywood http://www.stigmatahollywood.com Sunday - Club Dungeon Hollywood http://www.dungeonhollywood.com There are pictures of the clubs, people and playlists at the websites. Take a vote and we'll all meet up! All I can offer are possible venues anybody who is good at organizing can probably think of a way to meet like posting pictures of attendees on a web address and we should have a photographer from the list to immortalize the night. Gregory RoxyMuzick@aol.com http://hometown.aol.com/roxymuzick/myhomepage/profile.html ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:30:39 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, paula brown wrote: > "not that I think it was the wrong single to pull," > > Although you copied my quote, I wonder if you overlooked this line since > that is the implication. Also, you're assuming core fans don't have any > broader perspective. I'm a core fan, and I could pick commercial > singles all day long. Paula You may have noticed that I trim my replies to include only the pertinent material I am responding to, so I can assure you that I did not overlook that line. But the conversation was about having fans pick singles and not necessarily you, which is to say that of course specific individuals may prove exceptions to rules. I must confess that I don't know what a "core fan" is, but if it involves either wearing hats or secret handshakes I must say I would be wary of it. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:38:02 -0800 (PST) From: Johnny Reece Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban - --- Colleen Matan wrote: <> You've been on this list all these years, and you never, once, offered to tree it. And if you're going to bring up that argument that happened amongst all the Roxy people on Cape Cod following the Boston Gig, I really think that matter is best dropped now. If you remember, no police charges at all were made. And I think we can all be thankful for that. Reecey... Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:57:51 +0100 From: "Kari Solberg" Subject: [AVALON] What Kind of Fool am I? >I miss the days when you bought an album on the day of it's >release, not >knowing what to expect. >If 'anyone' burns this promo and distributes it, Bryan will never >get the >sales he deserves. Some fool paid $125 for it on eBay! >David Hi David, Yes of coure I'm a fool that paid that much for the Frantic TEST CD, but you know, if I hadn't bought it, someone else had done it! You can calm down, David! I will not destroy the joy for you on April 15.! First of all I bought this test cd for myself, because I want to hear it NOW!...but I can't denie I felt good about knowing I did Bryan a favour too! You see, I will never sell it - and NOT TREE IT! I could never do that! When copies turn up at eBay, you can be absolutely sure, they are not from mine! Bryan is safe by me, but I can't go out on eBay again and buy the promo that have turned up today...now it's GBP 16.00 and the item number is 1518556605. It would be fine if there's any other fool on this list who can't wait! Now I wonder, have I done anything bad? Should I feel ashamed? I hope not, because I'm really happy for it! On Friday, when I sent the message, with the link, to the list about 'Frantic Test being on eBay', I had no intention of buying it. If I had, I would never have told it to you all! I didn't even consider to buy it! ...too much money, of course! Half an hour later, I had to go back and have a look if it was still there. I could Buy it Now..and I did..........You obviously had a look at it David, didn't you see the buyer's name? As I was the one who told the whole list about this, you could all see 'kariso' was the buyer and I have never hidden my name at eBay! I'm looking forward to hearing it very soon ;-) :-D !!!!! ....and I will also buy the CD on Monday April 15...the vinyl and it all, 'cos I have to have the cover art, you know! LOL Me fool, yes Kari ...and it isn't a promo, it's a TEST CD. so there ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:01:18 -0800 From: "N. S. Koff" Subject: Re: [AVALON] What Kind of Fool am I? At 04:57 PM 2/25/02, you wrote: > >I miss the days when you bought an album on the day of it's >release, not > >knowing what to expect. > > >If 'anyone' burns this promo and distributes it, Bryan will never >get the > >sales he deserves. Some fool paid $125 for it on eBay! > > >David > >Hi David, > >Yes of coure I'm a fool that paid that much for the Frantic TEST >CD, but you know, if I hadn't bought it, someone else had done it! >You can calm down, David! I will not destroy the joy for you on April 15.! >First of all I bought this test cd for myself, because I want to hear it >NOW!...but I can't denie I felt good about knowing I did Bryan a favour too! >You see, I will never sell it - and NOT TREE IT! I could never do that! When >copies turn up at eBay, you can be absolutely sure, they are not from mine! >Bryan is safe by me, but I can't go out on eBay again and buy the promo that >have turned up today...now it's GBP 16.00 and the item number is 1518556605. >It would be fine if there's any other fool on this list who can't wait! > There's some keyword spamming going on in that eBay auction. Is there no bottom limit to the perfidy? Warmest regards, Nick N/P: Waltzing with the Ghost of Tom Joad - The Texas Shows - Bruce Springsteen Roxy Trade Page: http://boootlegs.com/roxy.htm Roxy Trade Page - Text Only: http://boootlegs.com/bootxt04.htm Other Trade Stuff: http://boootlegs.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:09:45 +1100 From: "notdixon" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > I must confess that I don't know what a "core fan" is, but if it involves > either wearing hats or secret handshakes I must say I would be wary of it. > Colleen It's not a secret handshake actually. It's actually the "Avalon Finger Waggle" and it's only used in the presence of the great one himself. The silly hats are fun, though! - -Doug (breaking the unspoken code) ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:26:18 -0000 From: "thom.wallace" Subject: [AVALON] Hat eating time. Aren't we due a bit of online hat eating, I seem to remember a few of our membership being convinced that the artwork on vivaroxymusic.com was a hoax. I think a big well done is deserved to John not only for the amount of time that he puts into getting such a wealth of info onto the site, but also for getting us an early chance to see the artwork and get a rundown on the track listing. Keep up the good work John. Cheers, Tom. P.S. Please forward all photos of hat eating avalonions to the avalon web site so that we can all have a good laugh. You can also contact me at: TomWallace@vivaroxymusic.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:27:03 -0800 From: "N. S. Koff" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. At 05:26 PM 2/25/02, you wrote: >Aren't we due a bit of online hat eating, I seem to remember a few of our >membership being convinced that the artwork on vivaroxymusic.com was a hoax. >I think a big well done is deserved to John not only for the amount of time >that he puts into getting such a wealth of info onto the site, but also for >getting us an early chance to see the artwork and get a rundown on the track >listing. Keep up the good work John. I for one never doubted that anything John O'Brien published was authentic. I think vivaroxymusic is an amazing source -- better than some people know - -- and I was extremely gratified to see that Mr. Ferry agrees -- apparently even going so far as to emblazon the words vivaroxymusic on the cover of the new album! Good going, John! It's nice to get some official recognition after all that work, isn't it? Warmest regards, Nick Roxy Trade Page: http://boootlegs.com/roxy.htm Roxy Trade Page - Text Only: http://boootlegs.com/bootxt04.htm Other Trade Stuff: http://boootlegs.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:14:00 EST From: Helchat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. In a message dated 2/25/02 5:23:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, thom.wallace@ntlworld.com writes: << I think a big well done is deserved to John not only for the amount of time that he puts into getting such a wealth of info onto the site, but also for getting us an early chance to see the artwork and get a rundown on the track listing. Keep up the good work John. >> I second that opinion! Helene ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:09:39 -0500 From: "tmoq" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Firmin" To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > Last year, blank CDs outsold all music albums in the U.S. Artists are having > their most dismal sales ever because of this. > > http://www.latimes.com/business/la-022402grammy.story > Well how about that? And all this time I thought it was due to the industry flooding the market with oceans of mindless manufactured flavor-of-the week pop along with predictable and interchangeable metal/rap outfits. When I read statements like this...... "In the short term, the industry is obsessed by a lack of star power. "There's nervousness right now because we haven't seen a new crop of stars like we've been having over the last couple of years," said Tom Calderone, MTV senior vice president for music. "Whether it was Fred Durst (of Limp Bizkit) or Kid Rock or Britney Spears or 'N Sync, we had wall-to-wall stars for a while. . . . There are a lot of great songs out right now, but we went from superstars to a group of potential superstars." .........I pray the whole industry collapses. Gene ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:13:01 +0100 From: "The Bogus Man" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Brain Jeezes wazzup? can someone translate with simple words for a dummie italian? + .-))))))))))))))) i am dan > --- Colleen Matan wrote: > > <> > > You've been on this list all these years, and you > never, once, offered to tree it. > And if you're going to bring up that argument that > happened amongst all the Roxy people on Cape Cod > following the Boston Gig, I really think that matter > is best dropped now. If you remember, no police > charges at all were made. > And I think we can all be thankful for that. > > Reecey... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:22:42 -0800 (PST) From: Aleks Kocan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Hat eating time. - --- "N. S. Koff" wrote: > >Aren't we due a bit of online hat eating, I seem to > remember a few of our > >membership being convinced that the artwork on > vivaroxymusic.com was a hoax. > I think vivaroxymusic is an amazing source -- better > than some people know > -- and I was extremely gratified to see that Mr. > Ferry agrees -- apparently > even going so far as to emblazon the words > vivaroxymusic on the cover of > the new album! The "doubts" about the artwork were because it was an older photo. I found it a bit strange that they were using this photo, but vivaroxymusic.com is accurate, and any discrepancies are quickly amended. I think that roxyrama.com is excellent too, maybe Chris Turners site should get a mention on the new album... Aleks Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:46:52 EST From: Chandla911@AOL.COM Subject: [AVALON] Bantic fran >From: "bryan o connor" >Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban >The internet has been great thing as you can know everything about an artist >but I've also fallen victim to the whole promo & mp3 thing I know it's not quite what Bryan means but I too have been victim to the modern age. I joined Bowienet at some expense by phoning the US-only membership number to join as soon as possible, before memberships became available in the UK, due to my zeal and fandom status. However, it was not long before David Bowie made himself TOO available. It was great knowing everything about him, but after a while, where was the starry mystique? The whole point about Bowie was his aloof remoteness as Ziggy and almost every incarnation since. Although I remain a member, I have only visted the Bowienet site about 4 times in the last year. Partly because of the above and partly because of the inane bragadaccio (sp?) of a Mr TotalBlamBlam who writes to the news pages daily and makes me ashamed to be a fellow fan. Sometimes, it's best to let the artist be and the artist can be a better artist as a result. >Paula said: >I've heard a lot of people on >the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or personnel >ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine >having such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not >taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of experts at your disposal >free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy Believe it, Paula. They're crazy. Best wishes Richard Mills n/p BBC Radio 2 - my survey is almost complete. It is probably the best all-round station the UK has to offer, but aren't Messrs Wogan, Allinson and Walker the most shamelessly inane twits on air??? ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V7 #68 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest