From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V7 #67 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Monday, February 25 2002 Volume 07 : Number 067 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] 4.B.F. ["Mark Yates" ] Re: [AVALON] CD Sales boondogle [Heather James ] Re: [AVALON] CD Sales boondogle ["paula brown" ] Re: [AVALON] 4.B.F. ["Han Snijders" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["bryan o connor" ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban ["paula brown" ] [AVALON] re-make, re-model the industry, fer god's sakes ["mark shanahan"] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Antic's ["Philip Adams" ] [AVALON] Video [David Firmin ] Re: [AVALON] re-make, re-model the industry, fer god's sakes ["paula brow] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban [Johnny Reece ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0000 From: "Mark Yates" Subject: Re: [AVALON] 4.B.F. No need for apologies Tim. We like to ramble. That's all part of the Fun. Mark - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Rothfuss" To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:53 PM Subject: [AVALON] 4.B.F. > Hi everybody, > First off, my apologies if a version of this message > has already been posted. I tried once before, and it > didn't appear in the digest format. In any case, this > is my first (or second) posting, so I'm begging you > not to yell at me. > Anyway, the talk about Concrete Blonde's "Roxy" (and > other various Roxy/Ferry tribute songs) brought > "4.B.F" to mind, and the fact that the song's > backstory and lyrics have been bugging me for a long > time, and I was hoping that maybe someone here might > be familiar with its history. It was on the album/cd > "The Madness" (which was, I believe, about > four-sevenths of Madness with one or two of The > Attractions playing on a couple of songs.) I think I > read somewhere that Madness (just Madness) performed > it live as well (and gamely try to emulate the Roxy > sound). Anyway, the lyrics (which I won't get into > right now, unless somebody's interested or unfamiliar > with them - let me know) seem to be a bit critical of > Bryan Ferry (if I'm reading them right. Maybe it's > about him going solo again, as the song dates around > the mid-80's?). Not only that, but there's a verse in > the printed lyrics of the cd booklet that is not in > the recorded version of the song, and there's a verse > in the song that's not printed in the booklet (a bit > of the unsung lyrics being "you left us stranded with > a hungry crew/do expect us to gain respect for you/I'm > sure you did not scheme/I know you didn't mean it".) > So, I'm just wondering if anybody could help me figure > out what the song's about (or where I might be able to > find out about it). I've looked all over (and checked > the archives, too, though I couldn't find anything). > I apologize in advance if this is a bit off-topic but, > being underemployed at the moment, I have more free > time than I know what to do with, and these things > seem to take on greater importance. You can email me > privately if you want (timtarot@yahoo.com) if it's > decided that the topic isn't of general interest. > Thanks for your time, everybody (sorry if I rambled), > Tim > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:38:34 -0500 From: Heather James Subject: Re: [AVALON] CD Sales boondogle Artists are NOT having the worst year ever because of the sale of blank CDs ... Artists are having their worst year ever because of the poor management of the music business! Artists are having the worst year ever because of the ever shrinking pool of places to hear new music, with the Mega-market radio syndicates like Clear Channel (who also are getting control of the concert venues), with the integration of cable/internet/radio/television/Movie studios, there are fewer and fewer places for an artist to go. The studios won't take chances on any artist that isn't quickly reducable to a few word description, and the music fans are getting boired with soundalike artists and the endless girl-singer, boy-group, over-produced blandness that makes up most of the commercial music industry today. Please remember there are other uses for those blank CDs - for data backup, saving digital photos, and other non-music copy purposes. Also, the rumour is that some musicians actually use Cds to record their own home made music on - I save copies of programs I download off the internet to CDs - things like Norton Antivirus updates, MS NT Service packs, etc ... That way, when Windoze crashes, I have things available without having to get online to get them. Not every blank CD sold goes to pirate Brittney Spears music! -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com The Roxy Music Archives: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ My Music Trading Lists: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html Roxy Music Trade List: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/roxy-boots.html Van Morrison Trade List: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-van.html >-----------------------------------------------------------------------< David Firmin wrote: > Last year, blank CDs outsold all music albums in the U.S. Artists are having > their most dismal sales ever because of this. > > http://www.latimes.com/business/la-022402grammy.story > > > David > > *** > > > > on 2/25/02 10:11 AM, Mark Yates at mark@myates19.fsnet.co.uk wrote: > > >>Paula. >>You do talk a lot of sense. >> >>Mark. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "paula brown" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:52 PM >>Subject: [AVALON] Frantic Ban >> >> >> >>>Everyone thought cassettes would be the end of record sales when they >>>came out because people could dub them, but all passing the music around >>> >>from >> >>>one fan to another did was increase sales by quite a large margin. It >>> >>simply >> >>>increased the fan base. Being able to send sound files does make it even >>>easier, but I don't think that's the main problem plaguing music sales. >>>Really, I think it's just that listening to music has taken a back seat to >>>being online, pure and simple. It just isn't youth's favorite pasttime >>>anymore. Computers are, which fortunately integrates music or it might >>> >>fade >> >>>away even more severely. >>>How do artists make money? I don't have the answer, but if we want >>> >>them >> >>>to, and we should, then everyone shouldn't fight it when record companies >>> >>try >> >>>to regulate MP3s. MP3s, though, for unsigned groups will be the saving >>> >>grace >> >>>for once again giving fresh artists a vehicle to be heard. It would be >>>hunkydory with me if restrictions were put in place that enabled not just >>>labels by independent artists to profit from their work, leaving it up to >>> >>them >> >>>to give it away in order to build the initial fan base but then having >>>regulations in place for when they wanted to start selling direct, without >>> >>a >> >>>label if they desire. I know this is what every garage band dreams of, but >>> >>I >> >>>think they'll find it takes more money and personnel than they'd planned >>> >>on >> >>>for marketing, tour support, etc., although the Internet certainly is a >>>wonderful marketing and distribution tool. >>>I think labels will evolve into a stripped down version of what >>> >>they've >> >>>been and will be used in a more limited capacity, the focus shifting away >>> >>from >> >>>production and distribution and focusing on marketing and tour support. Is >>> >>the >> >>>technology even there to be able to restrict MP3s, etc.? Probably not, but >>>it's only a matter of time, unless someone comes up with a dancable >>> >>solution >> >>>to teenage revolution. Paula >>> >>> >>> >>> >>___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:57:55 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] CD Sales boondogle True, true, true! However, I believe the Internet has provided the best ever opportunity for new artists to be heard and that it will become the primary outlet, over radio and TV. What radio will play (and there are some wonderful exceptions) is pretty much the same as it's always been, unfortunately. And yes, I imagine the biggest percentage of CDs are sold wholesale to software manufacturers as well as to the production facilities who make prerecorded music CDs. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather James Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 12:37 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] CD Sales boondogle Artists are NOT having the worst year ever because of the sale of blank CDs ... Artists are having their worst year ever because of the poor management of the music business! Artists are having the worst year ever because of the ever shrinking pool of places to hear new music, with the Mega-market radio syndicates like Clear Channel (who also are getting control of the concert venues), with the integration of cable/internet/radio/television/Movie studios, there are fewer and fewer places for an artist to go. The studios won't take chances on any artist that isn't quickly reducable to a few word description, and the music fans are getting boired with soundalike artists and the endless girl-singer, boy-group, over-produced blandness that makes up most of the commercial music industry today. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:27:22 +0100 From: "Han Snijders" Subject: Re: [AVALON] 4.B.F. Hi Tim, Maybe you can add the missing part of the lyrics from a post of John O'brien march 1999: >>Anyway, about the song 4BF. I think there's a bit on the official Madness site explaining the name of the song, and includes the pencil pun as well;-) The song was written in 1985 by the flying saxophone player Lee Thompson, who was obviously a big Bryan Ferry fan. It wasn't written in time to make it onto the Madness album of '85, "Mad Not Mad" but it was included on the set list for the "Mad Not Mad Tour" which was when I first heard it, and immediately thought it was a classic. It was due to be recorded for the next album in 1986 but while rehearsing for that album Madness decided to call it a day and it looked like "4BF" would never see the light of day. Fortunately, "4BF" did surface a couple of years later. Four members of Madness, Suggs, Carl, Chris and Lee, stayed together and recorded an album under the name of The Madness in 1988, and they recorded some of the songs originally intended for the Madness album that never was, including "4BF". However it never made it onto the proper album and was used as a B-side on the 12" and CD of the first single "I Pronounce You". So here are the words, as printed on the sleeve of "The Madness". For some reason there are lyrics missing, the bit which goes "Love was the drug finally made you despair". Don't know why that is. ******************************************************* 4 B.F. (Thompson) The foundation member of a space-age group, Who crooned his way to my heart, Who took the breath of young men and women, Has left us for a brand new start, But oh, I've got a feeling, A strange kind of feeling, The inspiration of many dreams, The inspiration for now it seems. Oh, I get your meaning, You're shy but a human being, I hope things work out for better, Bloom into forever, Oooh oh oh oh oh, etc. You left us stranded with a hungry crew, Do expect us to gain respect for you, I'm sure you did not scheme, I know you didn't mean it, But I hope things work out for better, Move into forever, Oooh oh oh oh oh......<<< - ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: Tim Rothfuss Aan: Verzonden: maandag 25 februari 2002 18:53 Onderwerp: [AVALON] 4.B.F. > Anyway, the talk about Concrete Blonde's "Roxy" (and > other various Roxy/Ferry tribute songs) brought > "4.B.F" to mind, and the fact that the song's > backstory and lyrics have been bugging me for a long > time, and I was hoping that maybe someone here might > be familiar with its history. It was on the album/cd > "The Madness" (which was, I believe, about > four-sevenths of Madness with one or two of The > Attractions playing on a couple of songs.) I think I > read somewhere that Madness (just Madness) performed > it live as well (and gamely try to emulate the Roxy > sound). Anyway, the lyrics (which I won't get into > right now, unless somebody's interested or unfamiliar > with them - let me know) seem to be a bit critical of > Bryan Ferry (if I'm reading them right. Maybe it's > about him going solo again, as the song dates around > the mid-80's?). Not only that, but there's a verse in > the printed lyrics of the cd booklet that is not in > the recorded version of the song, and there's a verse > in the song that's not printed in the booklet (a bit > of the unsung lyrics being "you left us stranded with > a hungry crew/do expect us to gain respect for you/I'm > sure you did not scheme/I know you didn't mean it".) > So, I'm just wondering if anybody could help me figure > out what the song's about (or where I might be able to > find out about it). ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:41:30 -0000 From: "bryan o connor" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban The internet has been great thing as you can know everything about an artist but I've also fallen victim to the whole promo & mp3 thing where you hear 4 or 5 songs from a forthcoming release. I'm trying to stop listening to them as I find that sometimes promos don't give the best reflection of an album. Its a taste thing on a record execs part like releasing a single...it's not always the right one and one can be disappointed by them if one doesn't like the tracks. I've got about 5 songs from the new simple minds record and I feel like I've ruined the pleasure of getting the record now so I'm definitely not doing that with Frantic. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Yates To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > Paula. > You do talk a lot of sense. > > Mark. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "paula brown" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:52 PM > Subject: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > > > > Everyone thought cassettes would be the end of record sales when they > > came out because people could dub them, but all passing the music around > from > > one fan to another did was increase sales by quite a large margin. It > simply > > increased the fan base. Being able to send sound files does make it even > > easier, but I don't think that's the main problem plaguing music sales. > > Really, I think it's just that listening to music has taken a back seat to > > being online, pure and simple. It just isn't youth's favorite pasttime > > anymore. Computers are, which fortunately integrates music or it might > fade > > away even more severely. > > How do artists make money? I don't have the answer, but if we want > them > > to, and we should, then everyone shouldn't fight it when record companies > try > > to regulate MP3s. MP3s, though, for unsigned groups will be the saving > grace > > for once again giving fresh artists a vehicle to be heard. It would be > > hunkydory with me if restrictions were put in place that enabled not just > > labels by independent artists to profit from their work, leaving it up to > them > > to give it away in order to build the initial fan base but then having > > regulations in place for when they wanted to start selling direct, without > a > > label if they desire. I know this is what every garage band dreams of, but > I > > think they'll find it takes more money and personnel than they'd planned > on > > for marketing, tour support, etc., although the Internet certainly is a > > wonderful marketing and distribution tool. > > I think labels will evolve into a stripped down version of what > they've > > been and will be used in a more limited capacity, the focus shifting away > from > > production and distribution and focusing on marketing and tour support. Is > the > > technology even there to be able to restrict MP3s, etc.? Probably not, but > > it's only a matter of time, unless someone comes up with a dancable > solution > > to teenage revolution. Paula > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > The subliminable footer says: > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:12:31 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban You're right about the singles. Sometimes the wrong ones are pulled. Or it may be that the right one is pulled for the lowest common denominator of radio but that the core fans will place that song pretty far down on their list. Not that I don't like Love is the Drug and not that I think it was the wrong single to pull, but how many big fans will even cite that as a favorite from Siren, much less over Sentimental Fool? I've always thought the fan club prez should make those decisions, personally, unless the label has a core fan on the payroll. Even the musicians themselves don't always have the objectivity to pick the hit. But for me personally, I learned a long time ago to use whatever information I could get and sort it out using my common sense. So I like the option of hearing samples and listening to fan forums' opinions on the subject. Which reminds me to bring one thing up. I've heard a lot of people on the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or personnel ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine having such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of experts at your disposal free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy.......Paula - ----- Original Message ----- From: bryan o connor Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 2:33 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban The internet has been great thing as you can know everything about an artist but I've also fallen victim to the whole promo & mp3 thing where you hear 4 or 5 songs from a forthcoming release. I'm trying to stop listening to them as I find that sometimes promos don't give the best reflection of an album. Its a taste thing on a record execs part like releasing a single...it's not always the right one and one can be disappointed by them if one doesn't like the tracks. I've got about 5 songs from the new simple minds record and I feel like I've ruined the pleasure of getting the record now so I'm definitely not doing that with Frantic. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Yates To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > Paula. > You do talk a lot of sense. > > Mark. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "paula brown" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:52 PM > Subject: [AVALON] Frantic Ban > > > > Everyone thought cassettes would be the end of record sales when they > > came out because people could dub them, but all passing the music around > from > > one fan to another did was increase sales by quite a large margin. It > simply > > increased the fan base. Being able to send sound files does make it even > > easier, but I don't think that's the main problem plaguing music sales. > > Really, I think it's just that listening to music has taken a back seat to > > being online, pure and simple. It just isn't youth's favorite pasttime > > anymore. Computers are, which fortunately integrates music or it might > fade > > away even more severely. > > How do artists make money? I don't have the answer, but if we want > them > > to, and we should, then everyone shouldn't fight it when record companies > try > > to regulate MP3s. MP3s, though, for unsigned groups will be the saving > grace > > for once again giving fresh artists a vehicle to be heard. It would be > > hunkydory with me if restrictions were put in place that enabled not just > > labels by independent artists to profit from their work, leaving it up to > them > > to give it away in order to build the initial fan base but then having > > regulations in place for when they wanted to start selling direct, without > a > > label if they desire. I know this is what every garage band dreams of, but > I > > think they'll find it takes more money and personnel than they'd planned > on > > for marketing, tour support, etc., although the Internet certainly is a > > wonderful marketing and distribution tool. > > I think labels will evolve into a stripped down version of what > they've > > been and will be used in a more limited capacity, the focus shifting away > from > > production and distribution and focusing on marketing and tour support. Is > the > > technology even there to be able to restrict MP3s, etc.? Probably not, but > > it's only a matter of time, unless someone comes up with a dancable > solution > > to teenage revolution. Paula > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > The subliminable footer says: > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:43:13 -0800 From: "mark shanahan" Subject: [AVALON] re-make, re-model the industry, fer god's sakes _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com <-----Original Message-----> >From: paula brown >[cut] I've heard a lot of people on the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist >and/or personnel ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine having >such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not taking advantage of it. It's >like having a panel of experts at your disposal free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy. well, it's been said before, but i personally hope ferry doesn't read this ... 'stuff' himself. i've surmised that some things might possibly get back to him through channels. but as for the senor to read this himself -- i just really hope he's got better things to do (and i'm _sure_ he does). not to say there aren't some good ideas knocked around here (there are), but if you've been on this list for ... probably more than a month you might know what i'm getting at. i mean, *sure* ferry could have gotten a lot out of the 'is ferry _gay_?' (serious) discussion, but - well, you know ... a lot of artists make their music for themselves, really - and their own way. they specifically don't want to be bothered by other people's opinions. it pollutes the pipeline. on the other hand, i guess ferry at least _used to_ read a lot of his press (vs. weighing it). but anyway, you also wrote: >[cut] All that is well and good when a release is deserving, but there are probably a thousand >crappy releases pushed out this way to every good one. It's easy to think, well, the radio will only >play what's really good, but that isn'nt usually the case. Many of them will play whatever is getting >them the most money or other benefits, [cut] radio ... i haven't listened to commercial radio for well over ten years (if my listening preferences are any kind of indication ....). i can't remember the last time i relied on commercial radio to provide anything but complete trash. in the u.s., there are certainly some local & college stations that can be pretty good. where i'm located, one of the NPR (nat'l. public radio) stations in detroit plays some great stuff. and i know the music director/DJ there is both a roxy & ferry fan. as well as sylvian, for that matter. but i have to shake my head when i hear how radio is such a huge factor in the whole machine that is the recording industry. i would be fairly surprised if a lot of avalonians, for example, listened to commercial radio. my take is that, in the u.s. anyway, it would be an individual looking for background music at work or driving in their car; not someone looking for any kind of meaning in their music. certainly nothing to decipher and _no light there_. my hope, overall, is that the 'industry' experiences a massive 'wising-up' phase that results in a lot of positive changes for both artist, company, and fan alike. (certainly, you're seeing *something* of an attempt in this vein by the 'artist's 'coalition' started by henley & crow.) with the accessibility to music improving as well. that, of course, unless we're talking about the celine dions & michael boltons of this world. and, ahem, _we're not_ ... or the executives should just pluck their eyes out (but then they'd have to have realized what they'd done -- i guess that's not going to work ...). OK, that should fix everything! peaces/ms ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:59:22 -0000 From: "Philip Adams" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Antic's If I was to be offended by anything it would not be the conversation , its the hysteria that can appear from time to time on this list. Some one suggested that those who have heard it and want to blag off the fact that they have done so should include a reference to the fact in their subject header. I'll say no more on "Frantic" until I've sucked all last year's grapes. Philip > If the conversation offends you, you aren't obligated to participate. > > --Grant > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:04:50 -0800 From: David Firmin Subject: [AVALON] Video Roxy VHS from Canada 2001. eBay for $20. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1518458480 David *** ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:33:02 -0600 From: "paula brown" Subject: Re: [AVALON] re-make, re-model the industry, fer god's sakes Thanks for the virtual buffet of intelligent comments, Mark. I only flip through the stations about twice a year, just to make sure I know what's going on. I'd hate for Ferry to have read some of the tripe that's been going around as well, but he's a big boy. I don't believe getting various input and feedback will pollute the creative output of most artists, but it might give them some ideas about the peripheral issues, singles, cover art, etc. I can't imagine reading anything on a board which would affect the poems I write, for instance (although it would no doubt be a massive improvement if it did!) In that vein though, and regarding your comment about information being fed to him through channels, which is no doubt true, one of the things I have noticed over the years of meeting artists is how sheltered they are from any negative feedback. I came to envision many of them as doe-eyed fawn (well, doe-eyed fawn with very audacious habits which no one else could get away with) so entrenched were they that the whole world loved them and they could do no wrong. Over a period of years of having only people around them who tell them how great they are (and for many of them, only experiencing life on the road), a good many of them become very jaded. Sadly, if their glory days end and they have to reenter the real world, they may be very ill prepared to deal with it. And it certainly takes a toll on their creativity. Artists sometimes need a little adversity and reality to create. I say Buck Up, Heroes, and take the bad with the good. >>"but as for the senor to read this himself -- i just really hope he's got better things to do (and i'm_sure_ he does). "<< I hope he does, too, since it is a great comfort to me to think of him living the fantasy life I've only glimpsed at fleeting intervals. But I imagine even Ferry has a drowsy moment or two when he's not good for much else but this sort of rot. And if that is the case and he's reading this now, I think I speak for everyone when I say "GET THEE TO A PIANO YOU IMPOSSIBLY TALENTED GODHEAD AND BLEED ONTO YOUR RAVENOUS FANS!" Your leering gargoyle, Paula - ----- Original Message ----- From: mark shanahan Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:49 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] re-make, re-model the industry, fer god's sakes _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com <-----Original Message-----> >From: paula brown >[cut] I've heard a lot of people on the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist >and/or personnel ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I can't imagine having >such a wealth of information and feedback available to you and not taking advantage of it. It's >like having a panel of experts at your disposal free of charge. If they don't do it, they're crazy. well, it's been said before, but i personally hope ferry doesn't read this ... 'stuff' himself. i've surmised that some things might possibly get back to him through channels. but as for the senor to read this himself -- i just really hope he's got better things to do (and i'm _sure_ he does). not to say there aren't some good ideas knocked around here (there are), but if you've been on this list for ... probably more than a month you might know what i'm getting at. i mean, *sure* ferry could have gotten a lot out of the 'is ferry _gay_?' (serious) discussion, but - well, you know ... a lot of artists make their music for themselves, really - and their own way. they specifically don't want to be bothered by other people's opinions. it pollutes the pipeline. on the other hand, i guess ferry at least _used to_ read a lot of his press (vs. weighing it). but anyway, you also wrote: >[cut] All that is well and good when a release is deserving, but there are probably a thousand >crappy releases pushed out this way to every good one. It's easy to think, well, the radio will only >play what's really good, but that isn'nt usually the case. Many of them will play whatever is getting >them the most money or other benefits, [cut] radio ... i haven't listened to commercial radio for well over ten years (if my listening preferences are any kind of indication ....). i can't remember the last time i relied on commercial radio to provide anything but complete trash. in the u.s., there are certainly some local & college stations that can be pretty good. where i'm located, one of the NPR (nat'l. public radio) stations in detroit plays some great stuff. and i know the music director/DJ there is both a roxy & ferry fan. as well as sylvian, for that matter. but i have to shake my head when i hear how radio is such a huge factor in the whole machine that is the recording industry. i would be fairly surprised if a lot of avalonians, for example, listened to commercial radio. my take is that, in the u.s. anyway, it would be an individual looking for background music at work or driving in their car; not someone looking for any kind of meaning in their music. certainly nothing to decipher and _no light there_. my hope, overall, is that the 'industry' experiences a massive 'wising-up' phase that results in a lot of positive changes for both artist, company, and fan alike. (certainly, you're seeing *something* of an attempt in this vein by the 'artist's 'coalition' started by henley & crow.) with the accessibility to music improving as well. that, of course, unless we're talking about the celine dions & michael boltons of this world. and, ahem, _we're not_ ... or the executives should just pluck their eyes out (but then they'd have to have realized what they'd done -- i guess that's not going to work ...). OK, that should fix everything! peaces/ms ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:25:53 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, paula brown wrote: > You're right about the singles. Sometimes the wrong ones are > pulled. Or it may be that the right one is pulled for the lowest common > denominator of radio but that the core fans will place that song pretty > far down on their list. Not that I don't like Love is the Drug and not > that I think it was the wrong single to pull, but how many big fans will > even cite that as a favorite from Siren, much less over Sentimental > Fool? I've always thought the fan club prez should make those > decisions, personally, unless the label has a core fan on the payroll. I can't think of a more insular group of people who should not be trusted with a decision which needs the broadest viewpoint possible in order to be successful. You offer the perfect example: Love Is The Drug v. Sentimental Fool. Choosing one meant a huge hit for Roxy. Choosing the other would have ensured they and Mr. Ferry would never had a large following in the United States. Marketing decisions are best made by people who have an understanding and overview of the market they are trying to tap, and who can make the unemotional and rational choice and not by a bunch of people arguing over which guitar pick the lead guitarist used on October 12, 1961 gave the best sound in the middle 482.30 seconds of the concert on bootleg recording #89271. > Which reminds me to bring one thing up. I've heard a lot of people > on the music fan boards comment that there's no way the artist and/or > personnel ever read what's being said on the boards. I disagree. I > can't imagine having such a wealth of information and feedback available > to you and not taking advantage of it. It's like having a panel of > experts at your disposal free of charge. If they don't do it, they're > crazy.......Paula Actually, in my experience, this particular interaction is only successful if the artist(s) and/or management in question have a very strong sense of self, and if s/he/they have enough distance from the material and performances to read the comments for what they are. Otherwise it's just a big mess of hurt feelings, power trips, and the like. Furthermore, speaking for myself, I participate in these fora not as part of a[n unpaid] market research project, but as a fan. Frankly, I'd resent my participation being treated as such without my participation. If the artist(s) and/or management would like to participate in the spirit of the mailing list, newsgroup, bulletin board or whatever, fine. But these fan-based sites, such Avalon, are not meant primarily to serve as conduits for free and lazy research, nor should the tenor of their discussion be tempered by a fear that by honestly will ruin the chances to get backstage or whatnot for that's what I think poisons fan fora. [Or maybe it's just me. After all, I'm not part of The In Crowd. There are no tickets or backstage passes left for me. I suppose I could learn to bite my tongue and by doing so charm my way into those situations (maybe under a fake name at this point, ahahaha). But I'd rather have the chance to speak freely than not. Erm. How did I end up in Speaker's Corner?] Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:29:11 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Colleen Matan wrote: > my participation being treated as such without my participation. If the As fond as I may be at times of tautologies, I meant > my participation being treated as such without my permission. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:43:11 -0800 (PST) From: Johnny Reece Subject: Re: [AVALON] Frantic Ban - --- Colleen Matan wrote: > not by a bunch of people arguing over which guitar > pick the lead guitarist used on October 12, 1961 gave the best sound in the middle 482.30 seconds of the concert on bootleg recording #89271. >> Ah, you're referring to the Gibson SG721F Pick, obviously. But rub it in, why don't you. It's the only damn bootleg I don't have. Reecey... Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V7 #67 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest