From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #544 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, November 20 2001 Volume 06 : Number 544 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Furs cover Roxy + out of touch/out of mind ["Ivor Canning" <] [AVALON] Guitar strap [David Firmin ] Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick)] Re: [AVALON] Guitar strap [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick)] Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bil] Re: [AVALON] Guitar strap ["Mark Yates" ] Re: [AVALON] EG; King Crimson Collectors Club ["Gerard York" ] Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire [AMeyersLD@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] SOTW: "Dance Away" ["Martin Stockman" Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bill MacCormick wrote: > In article <3BF8FAD2.6040809@thewebgal.com>, hjames@thewebgal.com (Heather > James) wrote: > > > >3) In NO way is a profit to be made by anyone initiating or taking > > part as > > >a master holder. They will always be done for the cost of the media and > > >shipping only. What happens outside of the list is of course your > > business, > > >but please keep any mention the mail list out of it. > > I have to say that as condition this one is feeble. Just asking > people not to mention the source of the bootleg doesn't wash and is > the reason why others could accuse the list of being 'a bunch of > bootleggers' as per John O'Brien's post. To avoid this accusation I think you may be misreading this section of the guidelines. It doesn't tell people making copies not to mention the source. As I read it and as I have read it in the past, and perhaps I am not understanding it correctly, it says that people on the list who make copies only ask for reimbursement, if that, for the cost of media and postage only. And that if you are going to sell such an item to make a profit, that you keep any news of such a sale off the list and not involve the list in any way. > then there should be some sanction against those that do sell, i.e. > being kicked off the list. It may only be symbolic but it helps keep > your hands clean. Well, assuming that is indeed a proper action for this list (i.e., kicking someone off for selling boots), first we would need proof that such a thing had transpired. In 6 or so years on this list I've never seen such a thing. Maybe I'm just naive. That being said, what people do in private is none of the list's concern, whether or not we as individuals or as a whole condone it. In addition, it's always worthwhile to remember that the Avalon list is just a tiny drop in the ocean of Roxy/Ferry fans and not its sum total. The Avalon mailing list has been, I think, extremely protective of its integrity. As Gene pointed out, the tree guidelines were published when there was barely any material to tree, in the spirit of making sure things were being done correctly. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:05:26 EST From: InterEireann@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) Well said Mr. MacCormack. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:41:45 -0500 From: "Grant Goggans" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Boots, eBay, that can of worms >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:27 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) >From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) >Subject: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) > (snip) >With Phil Manzanera's support I have already had several RM 'sales' >stopped on Ebay and will happily oblige with anyone else seeking to make >money from illegal and unauthorised copies of the band's concerts. I keep a very sharp eye on eBay in order to find out what's being sold, and, in this much, Bill has an ally in me in that if I ever see an eBay listing of an "album" which has passed freely on this list, then I shall notify eBay. But saying that, an element of realism has to be considered. Take, for instance, the "This is Roxy Music" album. That's from a radio broadcast which the entire population of Britain had the opportunity to tape. (OK, probably 10,000 tops listened to it, but ...) The only thing I personally feel obliged to defend is the copy treed with the artwork of Sophie Dahl. If some other joe recorded it and stuck it into a digipak (not, presumably, a cheap thing to do) with some bonus tracks, that's nothing to do with Avalon and nothing to do with me. It's between the seller and (probably in this order) the band, the BBC and Virgin Records. This is one of the reasons why my "Strictly Confidential" bootleg archive makes a distinction between those boots (and you can call it a free tape or a tree or whatever; its look and walk and quack still qualifies it as a duck) which were designed to *not* be sold and those which were. Now, obviously my position is different from Bill's since I'm not only trying to maintain a record of everything that's out there (impartially) but also I've been known to swap a show or two (obvious bias) and I've been known to buy actual commercial bootlegs as well, but never on list. > >Trading/swapping is one thing. Profiteering a total different can of >worms. I guess it depends on what you're making a profit on, which is why I would never report anyone selling vinyl boots. $50 is a perfectly fair price to pay for an original Stoned Records' "Why Do You Think I'm a Funky Chick?" if you want that vinyl. Again, my motives are different from that of the band and its lawyers. Having said all that, however, I second or tenth or hundredth the motion that the band settle its legal squabbles and get some more old and 2001 shows out on the market. I would happily spend $16/disc for live Roxy Music if it meant I didn't have to deal with disagreeable nuts who flake on their deals. Grant Goggans please update links to -- http://www.geocities.com/popocalypse _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:23:08 +1100 From: "Michael Walker" Subject: [AVALON] RE: Last Posting. Hi Avalonians, Evidently some people are a bit confused about my last posting. I would like to make it QUITE CLEAR that I have no intention, what so ever, of profiting from this CD. This is mainly for your attention Bill. I hope you appreciate my directness, but I want it made quite clear, I am NOT a profiteering bootlegger. I am just a dedicated Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music fan. All I was pointing out, is that there are people out there who are out to make a quick profit, and as Gunter mentions, they probably are not fans. Now me personally, I am, and I have all the commercial releases available, including the RE-MASTERS, and special limited editions. Thank you Heather for the Tree/Trade rules. I have a copy of these and I fully understand how the procedure works. My intentions are to organise a Trade-tree for this CD, very shortly. I have no intentions to sell, or to profit from this CD. I hope the message achieves its aim. Thank You Michael ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:28:48 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Furs cover Roxy + out of touch/out of mind Ive can see for Miles: > hoping Ivor survives mention of > the Bunnymen, Well, it's a struggle, but I'm more likely to survive mention of the lapine ones than I am to ever recover from the horror that is, was and shall ever be ........... PETERS AND LEE ............. *Shame* on whoever brought up that vile memory... (shudder) Regards, Ivor. n.p. Random Hold - 'The View From Here'. The band time forgot ! What a fabbo little lost 80's combo this was - shame about the bass playing though.... S;^) Does anybody else think 'Meat' sounds like what 'Red' would have sounded like if it had been conceived during the Mark IV incarnation of King Crimson rather than the Mark III ?? Or am I being a bit *too* anoraky here... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:41:14 -0800 From: David Firmin Subject: [AVALON] Guitar strap I once saw Ferry's purple sequined guitar strap framed over my table at a restaurant in LA (Hard Rock Cafe or Planet Hollywood?) It also had the picture from FYP. It was neat to study the pic and strap next to each other, as I wolfed down a burger. The strap looked a little ratty after years in storage. The strap in question can be seen here: http://dingo.care-mail.com/pictures/52/520/025/520259837.jpg David *** ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) In article , duncanfyp@hotmail.com (Duncan Watkins) wrote: > Does this mean we are definitely going to get a DVD and CD?,and if so > is the CD(?double CD) going to be the 'best' version of each track or a > particular concert? Dunno. They go into the studio starting December 8th to work on them. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Guitar strap In article , eddieriff@yahoo.com (David Firmin) wrote: > I once saw Ferry's purple sequined guitar strap framed over my table at > a > restaurant in LA (Hard Rock Cafe or Planet Hollywood?) > > It also had the picture from FYP. It was neat to study the pic and strap > next to each other, as I wolfed down a burger. > > The strap looked a little ratty after years in storage. And I once saw a photo of a guitar, can't recall which make, on the wall of a Hard Rock Cafe described as belonging to Phil Manzanera. Trouble is he still has it in a case at his studio. Some of these 'mementos' have to be taken with a few pounds of salt. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire In article <3BF959CA.1080600@thewebgal.com>, hjames@thewebgal.com (Heather James) wrote: > I still don't understand how Robert Fripp is able to do the KC > Collectors Club with recordings of the band he was in when they were EG > artists > and yet Bryan Ferry (or Phil) can't do the same thing with the Roxy > Music archival musical material. > > Did Fripp just persue the legal avenues more effectively than > Bryan/Roxy to get out from under the EG umbrella? I have no idea whether Fripp had a different contractual arrangement with EG which subsequently gave him more freedom. It's possible and, as he had been in the business a lot longer than RM, maybe he'd learnt a thing or two about protecting his interests more effectively. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:29:24 -0000 From: "Mark Yates" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Guitar strap There's a guy works doen the chipshop swears he's Elvis. Kirsty McCall - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Firmin" To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 9:41 PM Subject: [AVALON] Guitar strap > I once saw Ferry's purple sequined guitar strap framed over my table at a > restaurant in LA (Hard Rock Cafe or Planet Hollywood?) > > It also had the picture from FYP. It was neat to study the pic and strap > next to each other, as I wolfed down a burger. > > The strap looked a little ratty after years in storage. > > The strap in question can be seen here: > http://dingo.care-mail.com/pictures/52/520/025/520259837.jpg > > David > > *** > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:44:07 -0500 From: "Gerard York" Subject: Re: [AVALON] EG; King Crimson Collectors Club I think Fripp has made a couple of statements to the effect that he owns most of the respective copyrights -- which has probably made things easier -- the King Crimson Collectors' Club is about to release its 17th CD (A 1971 Detroit concert). However, it's my understanding one of the members of the 1969 is withholding consent to the release by the KCCC of the 1969 Hyde Park concert where King Crimson opened for the Rolling Stones. Too bad there aren't any tapes of Bryan Ferry auditioning for the Lizard lineup(?) of King Crimson. > I still don't understand how Robert Fripp is able to do the KC > Collectors Club with recordings of the band he was in when they were EG > artists > and yet Bryan Ferry (or Phil) can't do the same thing with the Roxy > Music archival musical material. > > Did Fripp just persue the legal avenues more effectively than > Bryan/Roxy to get out from under the EG umbrella? I have no idea whether Fripp had a different contractual arrangement with EG which subsequently gave him more freedom. It's possible and, as he had been in the business a lot longer than RM, maybe he'd learnt a thing or two about protecting his interests more effectively. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalonGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:03:15 -0800 (PST) From: David Firmin Subject: Re: [AVALON] Guitar strap Is this the guitar? http://www.hardrock.com/Memorabilia/Gallery/IGE47853.asp It says this model guitar was manufactured from 1983-1989, yet they acquired it on Jan 01, 1980. >From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) >And I once saw a photo of a guitar, can't recall which make, on the wall >of a Hard Rock Cafe described as belonging to Phil Manzanera. Trouble is >he still has it in a case at his studio. Some of these 'mementos' have to >be taken with a few pounds of salt. > >BM *** - --- David Firmin wrote: > I once saw Ferry's purple sequined guitar strap > framed over my table at a > restaurant in LA (Hard Rock Cafe or Planet > Hollywood?) > > It also had the picture from FYP. It was neat to > study the pic and strap > next to each other, as I wolfed down a burger. > > The strap looked a little ratty after years in > storage. > > The strap in question can be seen here: > http://dingo.care-mail.com/pictures/52/520/025/520259837.jpg > > David *** Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:34:15 EST From: AMeyersLD@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire In a message dated 11/19/01 4:40:56 PM, bmaccormick@cix.co.uk writes: << I have no idea whether Fripp had a different contractual arrangement with EG which subsequently gave him more freedom. It's possible and, as he had been in the business a lot longer than RM, maybe he'd learnt a thing or two about protecting his interests more effectively. >> Are there diplomatic relations betwen Fripp and anyone in Roxy these days? Perhaps He could be asked 'rpound for a cup of tea and some EG Music advice.... My two cents, Andrew in Chicago "Typical! You wait ages for Godot, then three come at once!" ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:03:55 +0000 From: "Martin Stockman" Subject: Re: [AVALON] SOTW: "Dance Away" Although Dance Away is by no means a regular visitor to my record deck I would agree with whoever said that is is a beautifully crafted song. Indeed take out the rather ersatz disco styling and what's left is the kind of soulful and delicate love song that might have graced the velvet tonsils of Smokey Robinson in his prime. pip pip Martineaux ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:02:17 +0000 From: "Duncan Watkins" Subject: [AVALON] Fwd: Evil Empire Definitions-slightly off topic but amusing. Scroll down, can you spot the Virgin/EG Empire mission statement? Regards, Duncan. > > A SOCIALIST: > You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it > to your neighbor. > A REPUBLICAN: > You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what? > > A DEMOCRAT: > You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty > for being successful. You vote people into office who tax > your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the > tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy > a cow and give it to your neighbor You feel righteous. > > A COMMUNIST: > You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides > you with milk. > > A FASCIST: > > You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you > the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of > sabotage. > > DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: > You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you > have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who > has only one cow, which was a gift from your government. > > CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE: > You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a > herd of cows. > > BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: > You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots > one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the > milk down the drain. > > AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to > produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow > drops dead. > > A FRENCH CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three > cows. > > A JAPANESE CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth > the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the > milk. > > A GERMAN CORPORATION: > > You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 > years, eat once a month, and milk themselves. > > AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: > > You have two cows but you don't know where they are. You > break for lunch. > > A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five > cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You > count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop > counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. > > A MEXICAN CORPORATION: > > You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow > looks like. You take a nap. > > A SWISS CORPORATION: > > You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge > for storing them for others. > > A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an > American corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the > American corporation declares bankruptcy. > > AN INDIAN CORPORATION: > You have two cows. You worship them > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #544 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest