From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #543 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Monday, November 19 2001 Volume 06 : Number 543 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Holiday Housecleaning ["Judy Kaufman" ] [none] ["Michael Walker" ] [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick)] Re: [AVALON] CD Tree Rules [OBrienFerry@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE [Heather James ] Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) ["Gunther Wandtke" ] Re: [AVALON] Re: Don't Be Cruel ["psglass.charter.net" ] Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE ["tmoq" ] Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire [Heather James ] Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE [Don Becker Subject: [AVALON] Holiday Housecleaning Hello to all, I've been doing a bit of housekeeping and found a few stray boots that need homes. I have extras of Roxy Music - Everyone's Ideal (NY 2001), Roxy Music - Kiss The Past Goodnight, and one by the Smiths - Same Day Again (1985). If you are interested in any of these and can send me a SASE and $1 (to be matched by me and donated to Toys For Tots), please contact me offlist with your choice. One per person only please. I will reply only to those who qualify. Judy ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:38:20 +1100 From: "Michael Walker" Subject: [none] To Avalonians, I believe I have only ever sent one posting to the list before, but due to comments made by someone referring to himself as Funky Guy, I feel I must now add another. I am the Ausroxy member refered to, as owning an original copy of Memento, or, I should say, a two-thirds controlling interest in the disc's, with another Ausroxy member owing the last third. We did not wish this to be known at this time, but circumstances have dictated otherwise. The disc's came into my possession, due to being the second highest bidder to 'honeysuckle' when the disc was auctioned on Ebay in early October. I was contacted outside Ebay, by the seller, who offered me another copy of the original he had in his possession. At this time, I was under the impression, that there were thirty copies of this disc made, for what the seller refered to as "The Sydney Roxy Music Fan Club". I contacted a fellow member of Ausroxy about the offer, and we decided to purchase the disc's. We also tried to find out who the original taper was, but the info we were given was false and lead nowhere. Our intentions were to offer copies of the discs to Ausroxy and Avalon members on a tree basis, but due to the problems addressed by Grant, these plans are on hold at the moment, until we can discus this with the taper, who seems to be upset and annoyed about the disc's being sold for profit. While I can understand the tapers annoyance at this betrayal, I personally, am of the opinion that the music should be shared. To prove this, I have already traded a number of copies, of the recording I made of the Sydney concert, though only the first half, as my mini-disc developed a fault during the concert. As to the second half, some of the songs were rescued, but are not very listenable. This was the main reason why I originally wanted to get hold of a copy of the Memento CD's. Also, it seems to be the only concert where a recording was made, though I have since heard that someone may have recorded the Melbourne concert. The comments of yesterday, therefore, were a bit of a shock to learn about, in regards this CD. But, what was even more shocking, was to learn that there were only four original copies of this disc made, and not thirty. This tells me that the original disc I have in my possession is a very valuable item, and regardless of Grants comments, asking Avalonians not to conciously participate in the purchase of this disc, (which advise was a little too late for me), I know that someone, somewhere in the world, who is not as conscientious, or who is out to make a fast profit, would not hesitate at the chance to grab a copy of this CD. This, as Funky Guy, points out in his missive, "IS THE REAL WORLD". This was proved very recently, when a copy of "ALPHAVILLE" was auctioned on Ebay, by a NON -Roxy Music fan. Evidently, he saw the chance to make a tidy profit. The statement I wish to make therefore, without sounding too harsh, is this: ONE MANS LOSS, IS ANOTHER MANS GAIN!! & SHARE AND SHARE ALIKE!! Thank You. Michael. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:27 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) Just to say that if I come across any more postings about people profiting from Roxy Music bootlegs (something I've never seen on this list before) I will feel obliged to bring this to the attention of the band's lawyers. This may indeed be 'THE REAL WORLD' but, be aware, in the 'real world' people have legal action taken against them for bootlegging and piracy. With Phil Manzanera's support I have already had several RM 'sales' stopped on Ebay and will happily oblige with anyone else seeking to make money from illegal and unauthorised copies of the band's concerts. Trading/swapping is one thing. Profiteering a total different can of worms. BM In article <001001c170e6$d3e87360$e2068690@w1>, michael.w1@bigpond.com (Michael Walker) wrote: > To Avalonians, > > I believe I have only ever sent one posting to the list before, but due > to > comments made by someone referring to himself as Funky Guy, I feel I > must now > add another. > > I am the Ausroxy member refered to, as owning an original copy of > Memento, or, > I should say, a two-thirds controlling interest in the disc's, with > another > Ausroxy member owing the last third. We did not wish this to be known > at this > time, but circumstances have dictated otherwise. > > This, as Funky Guy, points out in his missive, "IS THE REAL WORLD". > This was proved very recently, when a copy of "ALPHAVILLE" was > auctioned on > Ebay, by a NON -Roxy Music fan. Evidently, he saw the chance to make a > tidy > profit. > > The statement I wish to make therefore, without sounding too harsh, is > this: > > ONE MANS LOSS, IS ANOTHER MANS GAIN!! > > & SHARE AND SHARE ALIKE!! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:19:02 EST From: OBrienFerry@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] CD Tree Rules I appreciate that Bill has noted that this list is not set up to profit from any bootlegs and this is something that is not done by this mailing list or in the name of this mailing list. I agree with him whole heartedly and that we should not be profiteering on this list with these recordings. This list was wrongly blamed and accused of being 'a bunch of bootleggers' in the past by a member of Bryan's team on his own forum. This accusation was false, unfounded and had a completely hidden agenda. I think we may be setting ourselves up as the an easy target for any paranoid backside covering tripe due to all the talk of CD trees, swaps of live recordings etc that has gone on recently. If anyone has a copy of the CD tree outlines adopted by this forum, could they please post them to intimate the procedures adopted here as far as live recordings go. This will mainly be for the benifit of newcomers to the list and anyone who feel they need to have a pop at us. J.O'B. bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) writes: > Just to say that if I come across any more postings about people profiting > from Roxy Music bootlegs (something I've never seen on this list before) I > will feel obliged to bring this to the attention of the band's lawyers. > This may indeed be 'THE REAL WORLD' but, be aware, in the 'real world' > people have legal action taken against them for bootlegging and piracy. > With Phil Manzanera's support I have already had several RM 'sales' > stopped on Ebay and will happily oblige with anyone else seeking to make > money from illegal and unauthorised copies of the band's concerts. > > Trading/swapping is one thing. Profiteering a total different can of > worms. > > BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:28:02 -0500 From: Heather James Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE As requested - Here is a copy of the Avalon CD-Tree rules from May 2001 -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com Heather's WebGal Website: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/ My Roxy Music Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ My Music Trader Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html >-------------------------------------------------------------------------< >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------------------ >THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE > >INTRODUCTION: >Welcome to the Avalon list. This mail list is devoted to Roxy Music and >related artist and bands. If you give this list a chance, I think you`ll >find that it has a lot to offer in the way of Roxy Music news and items of >interest. There are many music related mail lists available on the Internet >but I`m sure you`ll find the Avalon list is special and different. >One thing that we offer that is of interest to many people is a >selection of rare and unique material not available to the mainstream >public (read into this bootlegs) by way of out "CD/Video trees." >The Roxy Music bootlegs distributed via our "trees" are aimed at people who >love listening to Roxy, want to hear interesting, good Roxy, and groan at >the hint of another damn no-end-in-sight CD box set that seem to re-hash >the same old studio cuts, "b- sides", and "special mixes" over and over. >Bootlegs offer a unique glimpse of the band on their natural turf....the >stage. >In some cases, the material has been digitally cleaned up and remastered to >the >best of our ability. By offering these bootlegs to the list, we give >everyone a >chance to experience their favorite phase(s) of Roxy Music`s live >performances >that the record companies deny us and to spare everyone from the many awful >quality Roxy CD boots circulating on the underground market. Best of >all....they`re free! > >Please keep in mind that no one on the Avalon list is responsible for the >existence of these bootlegs. We merely have access to them, enjoy them and >wish to spread the music. I`ve met many people who were stunned >by the brilliance of a certain song done live on a bootleg and reevaluated >their whole attitude to them. >But first and foremost, the Avalon list is NOT just about bootlegs and >anyone focusing only on this subject is missing out on some often >stimulating, sometimes hilarious and most interesting people. > >WHAT A "TREE" IS AND HOW IT`S DONE: > >A "tree", as in Tape/Video/Cd "tree", is unique material relating to Roxy >Music which is compiled by a person(s) and offered to the list. If enough >interest is generated, then list members capable of producing CD-R and tape >copies (known as "Master Holders") will contact the person with the >material. A number of "masters" are made and sent to a number of "Master >Holders". When the "Master Holders" are ready, they will announce it >to the list and anyone interested in a copy would simply post a request. >Hence, >"a tree." >Typically, anyone wanting a copy will need to send the appropriate number >of blank media (video tapes, audio cassette tapes or CD-R) and a stamped, >self addressed bubble-lined shipping package. The "Master Holder" will make >your >copy and send it to you. That`s it. > >THE RULES: >1) A CD/Tape/Video (T/V/CD) Tree can only be initiated by a person(s) >possessing enough Roxy related material to put (at least) a tape together. >2) NO ONE CAN VOLUNTEER ANOTHER`S MATERIAL. >3) In NO way is a profit to be made by anyone initiating or taking part as >a master holder. They will always be done for the cost of the media and >shipping only. What happens outside of the list is of course your business, >but please keep any mention the mail list out of it. > >----------------------------------------------END--------------------------- >------------------ > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:26:33 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bill MacCormick wrote: > Just to say that if I come across any more postings about people > profiting from Roxy Music bootlegs (something I've never seen on this > list before) I will feel obliged to bring this to the attention of the > band's lawyers. This may indeed be 'THE REAL WORLD' but, be aware, in > the 'real world' people have legal action taken against them for > bootlegging and piracy. With Phil Manzanera's support I have already > had several RM 'sales' stopped on Ebay and will happily oblige with > anyone else seeking to make money from illegal and unauthorised copies > of the band's concerts. > > Trading/swapping is one thing. Profiteering a total different can of > worms. I completely agree with Bill's comments re: sale of unauthorized materials. However, I'm confused (and this may be because I haven't had any coffee yet). I don't believe that Michael was saying in his post that he was either selling or profiting from the discs in question. Instead, I thought he was saying that they would be treed down the line. I will admit that I don't pay the closest attention to the posts about CD trees, but I actually read his twice before I deleted it and I didn't see any bad behavior in it. Did I miss something? Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:06:54 +1100 From: "Gunther Wandtke" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) Just to say that I know Michael well as a dedicated fan of Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music and know that he'd never consider profiteering from concert recordings himself, but has always shared generously with other fans, if anything making losses rather then profits. Just a reminder, that himself and all the other people of the list involved with concert recordings are the ones who have all the official products anyway and with their entusiasm incent others to buy them. The band thus has a maximum possible profit from these dedicated fans and I can't think of any disadvantage for the band from these fans swopping a few concert recordings for extented pleasure. The fact that we fans sometimes get involved with profiteerers on the receiving side (that is as buyers) is only a sign of our desperation to get hold of invaluable documents of concerts we've seen ourselves (or were unable to see for that matter) and want a souvenir or document of. The best antidote would be hopefully not the big hammer of the law, but the band in their wisdom deciding to make there own concert recordings available, of course for appropriate payment, as it was discussed earlier on the list. Gunter - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen Matan" To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bill MacCormick wrote: > > > Just to say that if I come across any more postings about people > > profiting from Roxy Music bootlegs (something I've never seen on this > > list before) I will feel obliged to bring this to the attention of the > > band's lawyers. This may indeed be 'THE REAL WORLD' but, be aware, in > > the 'real world' people have legal action taken against them for > > bootlegging and piracy. With Phil Manzanera's support I have already > > had several RM 'sales' stopped on Ebay and will happily oblige with > > anyone else seeking to make money from illegal and unauthorised copies > > of the band's concerts. > > > > Trading/swapping is one thing. Profiteering a total different can of > > worms. > > I completely agree with Bill's comments re: sale of unauthorized > materials. > > However, I'm confused (and this may be because I haven't had any coffee > yet). I don't believe that Michael was saying in his post that he was > either selling or profiting from the discs in question. Instead, I > thought he was saying that they would be treed down the line. > > I will admit that I don't pay the closest attention to the posts about CD > trees, but I actually read his twice before I deleted it and I didn't see > any bad behavior in it. Did I miss something? > > Colleen > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:50:08 -0800 From: "psglass.charter.net" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Don't Be Cruel Hi Eileen, I live in a suburb of Atlanta and I purchased my copy of the cd at BORDERS for $15.99. The cd is growing on me , BRYANS' song is fabulous!!!!!!!!!His voice is like silk that has been every so slightly sanded. I also like the song by Bob Dylan. The rest of it I think is a little annoying. I hope you find it soon. Happy Holidays...Pam Glass----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Don't Be Cruel > I tried Best Buy today but to no avail. Anyone have any suggestions where I > can purchase the CD in New York or should I get it online? Thanks! > > Eileen in Kew Gardens > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:01:10 +0000 From: "Duncan Watkins" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject)/Not For Profit. "Gunther Wandtke" wrote: >The best antidote would be the............. >band in their wisdom deciding to make there own concert recordings >available, of course for appropriate payment, as it was discussed earlier >on >the list. Is there any realistic chance of this happening Bill? What we (the fans in the 'real world') want is good quality 'legal and authorised' recordings of the music we love. Regards, Duncan. ps Thats two straight on topic postings in a row! ___________________________________________________________________________ > > The subliminable footer says: > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:34 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE In article <3BF8FAD2.6040809@thewebgal.com>, hjames@thewebgal.com (Heather James) wrote: > >3) In NO way is a profit to be made by anyone initiating or taking > part as > >a master holder. They will always be done for the cost of the media and > >shipping only. What happens outside of the list is of course your > business, > >but please keep any mention the mail list out of it. I have to say that as condition this one is feeble. Just asking people not to mention the source of the bootleg doesn't wash and is the reason why others could accuse the list of being 'a bunch of bootleggers' as per John O'Brien's post. To avoid this accusation then there should be some sanction against those that do sell, i.e. being kicked off the list. It may only be symbolic but it helps keep your hands clean. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:34 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) In article <005601c170fb$105cbd60$c0cf8a90@gunterwa>, redgum1@bigpond.com (Gunther Wandtke) wrote: > The fact that we fans sometimes get involved with > profiteerers on the receiving side (that is as buyers) is only a sign > of our > desperation to get hold of invaluable documents of concerts we've seen > ourselves (or were unable to see for that matter) and want a souvenir or > document of. > The best antidote would be hopefully not the big hammer of the law, but > the > band in their wisdom deciding to make there own concert recordings > available, of course for appropriate payment, as it was discussed > earlier on > the list. My comments were aimed at those who have profited out of bootlegs (or were thinking about it) and, also now, against the inadequacies of the list's sanctions against anyone who does. As to any official 'bootleg' releases, there is a commercial issue at stake here. The DVD and live CD recordings cost a deal of money which came from a commercial distribution agreement. Clearly, at the moment, it would not go down very well if the band were to release near studio quality live versions of concerts due for commercial release at someone else's expense in a few months time. What happens thereafter is up for discussion. However, even the release of older concert tapes is fraught with contractual difficulties re:Virgin Records though these maybe overcome in time. 'The best antidote' would be for people to avoid those who sell and stick with those who trade. From what I can see, most every concert has been recorded by someone on or near this list so it should be possible for those that want them to get hold of as many traded/swapped bootlegs as they want without resorting to the sorts of companies and individuals who rip you and the artists off for their own gain. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:48:57 -0000 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill MacCormick To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) >However, even the release of older concert tapes is fraught > with contractual difficulties re:Virgin Records though these maybe > overcome in time. How much time, some of us bought Virginia Plain in 72, much more time and we will have to listen with the help of hearing aids, poor old dears. Terry "O" ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:53:06 +0100 From: "Joan" Subject: [AVALON] the thrill of it all BOOT hi I' ve seen this boot in a shop but don't know if it's worth it Is it? Joan ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:46:22 -0500 From: "tmoq" Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill MacCormick" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE > In article <3BF8FAD2.6040809@thewebgal.com>, hjames@thewebgal.com (Heather > James) wrote: > > > >3) In NO way is a profit to be made by anyone initiating or taking > > part as > > >a master holder. They will always be done for the cost of the media and > > >shipping only. What happens outside of the list is of course your > > business, > > >but please keep any mention the mail list out of it. > > I have to say that as condition this one is feeble. Just asking people > not to mention the source of the bootleg doesn't wash and is the reason > why others could accuse the list of being 'a bunch of bootleggers' as per > John O'Brien's post. To avoid this accusation then there should be some > sanction against those that do sell, i.e. being kicked off the list. It > may only be symbolic but it helps keep your hands clean. > > BM This notation is the only thing we can realistically ask. Monitoring *everyone's* private web pages and keeping up with multiple user names etc. is just impossible. The guideline clearly states our stance on profiting from our treed material but the fact is that people will do what they want to do in which case and all we can hope and ask for is that they don`t mention the list. But it goes without saying that we`d come down hard on any known list member trying to sell our treed material. Actually, I can`t say I`ve ever come across material we treed being sold and the material that does show up being auctioned/sold was probably never treed on the list or if it was, it was done *after* it was acquired. If I`ve learned anything about the true fans on this list it`s that most who do come across new material are quite enthusiastic about having it treed on the list. I will admit that the CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE is out dated and in need of a re-write. It was written in '97 when the only material we had were for the most part old '70`s vinyl boots. Gene ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:52:55 -0000 From: "Andy \(Hotmail\)" Subject: Re: [AVALON] the thrill of it all BOOT Haven't you heard anything Bill said? Trade it - don't pay for it! Paying for boots perpetuates this nasty Boot Profiteering that robs our fave artistes of their hard-earned cash. Find someone who has already traded for it and swap/trade something else for it. And so the chain goes...... A - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan" To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:53 PM Subject: [AVALON] the thrill of it all BOOT > hi > I' ve seen this boot in a shop but don't know if it's worth it > Is it? > > Joan > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:40:41 -0000 From: "thom.wallace" Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill MacCormick" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE > I have to say that as condition this one is feeble. Just asking people > not to mention the source of the bootleg doesn't wash and is the reason > why others could accuse the list of being 'a bunch of bootleggers' as per > John O'Brien's post. The reason why there was an accusation of list members being 'a bunch of bootleggers' seemed to be either wrong information or plain malice on the part of the person making the accusation. I questioned this person on many occasions as to what their information/proof was and have still to receive an answer that held any substance. > To avoid this accusation then there should be some > sanction against those that do sell, i.e. being kicked off the list. It > may only be symbolic but it helps keep your hands clean. If there are to be sanctions placed on list members first there must be actual proof that they have indeed offered items for sale rather than for trade/swap. As someone who has obtained many recordings through trades/swaps with fellow list members I have yet to come accross someone offering items for sale. Having said that I am not naive enough to say that there is no way that it could have happened, only that I personally have never come accross it. For the tree system to continue to operate I it would be wise to stay well clear of attempting to tree unreleased studio recordings and if there is actual proof that profiteering is going on through the list to expose it. Tom Wallace. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:59:29 +0000 From: "Duncan Watkins" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: (No Subject) bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) wrote: '..... The DVD and live CD recordings cost a deal of money which came from a commercial distribution agreement. Does this mean we are definitely going to get a DVD and CD?,and if so is the CD(?double CD) going to be the 'best' version of each track or a particular concert? BTW new archive stuff at manzanera.com excellent! Regards, Duncan. > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:13:14 -0500 From: Heather James Subject: Re: [AVALON] Blows against the EVIL EG Empire I owned most of the albums - and I had a number of CDs, but when the Mini-LP remasters came out I wound up buying the whole Ferry/RM catalog - and have gotten a number of the Expression releases (Diamondhead, Quiet Sun, 801, etc) as well . But there frankly isn't any more commercial material to buy - (except the endless repacked Greatest Hits collections). if there was, I'd get it ... However, I'll admit I am not the completist that some of our fans are - I only own the releases in one format - - I'm not going to buy every release version of every album that was on the market. I still don't understand how Robert Fripp is able to do the KC Collectors Club with recordings of the band he was in when they were EG artists and yet Bryan Ferry (or Phil) can't do the same thing with the Roxy Music archival musical material. Did Fripp just persue the legal avenues more effectively than Bryan/Roxy to get out from under the EG umbrella? -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com Heather's WebGal Website: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/ My Roxy Music Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ My Music Trader Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html >-------------------------------------------------------------------------< Bill MacCormick wrote: >In article <005601c170fb$105cbd60$c0cf8a90@gunterwa>, redgum1@bigpond.com >(Gunther Wandtke) wrote: > >>The fact that we fans sometimes get involved with >>profiteerers on the receiving side (that is as buyers) is only a sign >>of our >>desperation to get hold of invaluable documents of concerts we've seen >>ourselves (or were unable to see for that matter) and want a souvenir or >>document of. >>The best antidote would be hopefully not the big hammer of the law, but >>the >>band in their wisdom deciding to make there own concert recordings >>available, of course for appropriate payment, as it was discussed >>earlier on >>the list. >> > >My comments were aimed at those who have profited out of bootlegs (or were >thinking about it) and, also now, against the inadequacies of the list's >sanctions against anyone who does. > >As to any official 'bootleg' releases, there is a commercial issue at >stake here. The DVD and live CD recordings cost a deal of money which >came from a commercial distribution agreement. Clearly, at the moment, it >would not go down very well if the band were to release near studio >quality live versions of concerts due for commercial release at someone >else's expense in a few months time. What happens thereafter is up for >discussion. However, even the release of older concert tapes is fraught >with contractual difficulties re:Virgin Records though these maybe >overcome in time. > >'The best antidote' would be for people to avoid those who sell and stick >with those who trade. From what I can see, most every concert has been >recorded by someone on or near this list so it should be possible for >those that want them to get hold of as many traded/swapped bootlegs as >they want without resorting to the sorts of companies and individuals who >rip you and the artists off for their own gain. > >BM > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > - -- ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:12:40 -0000 From: "Tracy Elliott" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Releases Tracy Thanks for the info - think I'll ask for these for Christmas :) May be lucky - you never know. T - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Connell Sent: 18 November 2001 00:49 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Releases Hiya Tracy, Just a note about 'Valentine'. It's actually an enhanced cd and plays video footage from Roxy on the Musikladen TV show if you play it on your computer. The track listing is: do the strand street life inevery dream home a heartache remake-remodel all i want is you virginia plain It comes with a nice slipcase. It was followed up by another cd called 'Vintage', also with video footage on it, again from Musikladen. The track list is: out of the blue psalm if it takes all night editions of you a hard rain's gonnna fall. I think they are pretty good and found it a bit of a novelty to watch them on my PC. Hope this information is useful to you. Tracy >From: "Tracy Elliott" >Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org >To: >Subject: [AVALON] Releases >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 07:27:53 -0000 > >Ive just been looking through HMV and MVC home pages for Roxy. Have >you seen the listings? There are two copies (original and remastered) >for most of the releases, including a limited edition release for the >first album (wonder what makes it limited). Then you get to Valentine >and the like  what are these???? More live shows cobbled together? >Think Ill stick with our bootlegs! > >If anyone is interested The Thrill of it All box set HMV are selling at >#35, which seems rather cheap compaired to the MVC price  Christmas >present anyone? > >T > > >_______________________________________________________________________ ____ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ________________________________________________________________________ ___ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:28:38 -0500 (EST) From: Don Becker Subject: Re: [AVALON] THE CD / TAPE / VIDEO TREE GUIDELINE On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Bill MacCormick wrote: > In article <3BF8FAD2.6040809@thewebgal.com>, hjames@thewebgal.com (Heather > James) wrote: > > > 3) In NO way is a profit to be made by anyone initiating or taking > > part as a master holder. They will always be done for the cost of the > > media and shipping only. What happens outside of the list is of > > course your business, but please keep any mention the mail list out > > of it. > > I have to say that as condition this one is feeble. Just asking people > not to mention the source of the bootleg doesn't wash and is the reason > why others could accuse the list of being 'a bunch of bootleggers' as per > John O'Brien's post. To avoid this accusation then there should be some > sanction against those that do sell, i.e. being kicked off the list. It > may only be symbolic but it helps keep your hands clean. A decent idea, but also very difficult to enforce. I mean, if we were to kick you off the list (not that we would, mind you), the only thing stopping you from getting a Hotmail or Yahoo mail account and resubscribing is your own conscience. Someone who would sell bootlegs for profit is probably lacking a bit in that department. - --Don - -- Don Becker don@adelphi.edu http://www.donbecker.org Unix System Administrator, Adelphi University http://www.adelphi.edu ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #543 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest