From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #499 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, October 26 2001 Volume 06 : Number 499 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Rock Follies etc ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] Re-make/Re-model ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets ["terrypaulrigz8c" ] Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets ["terrypaulrigz8c" ] Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets/off topic/on topic [InterEireann@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Yawn maybe, but let's get this straight [bmaccormick@cix.co.] [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick)] Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. ["thom.wallace" ] Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. [Colleen Matan ] [AVALON] Remake Hammersmith With Extras! ["Duncan Watkins" ] [AVALON] Thank you Bill Mac ["ppavlock" ] Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. [bmaccormick@cix.co] Re: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith [bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick)] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:09:29 +0100 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Rock Follies etc IT WASN'T MADE BY THE BLOODY BBC!!! (Sorry to repeat myself). It was made by Thames TV for ITV (the first British commercial TV channel). To find out more visit http://rockfollies.tvheaven.com/ SimonG >>> "Ian Mitchell" 10/25 6:19 pm >>> > My question is does anyone have the series on video as > the BBC don't have it in their catalogue and can anyone help me get a copy. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:10:56 +0100 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re-make/Re-model He's got the remainder of the year like the rest of us. ;-) SimonG >>> 10/25 6:41 pm >>> ANY FIRM DATES FOR FERRY 2001 PLEASE ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:19:53 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets - ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Robertson To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > Phantom of the Opera. gets plenty lottery and tax money to subsidies it ?. > poor Roxy have to Work for it and Bryans costumes (silver suit) must have > cost a bit ?. > > Alan > POOR ROXY!!! Excuse me, they are not struggling artists traveling round in the back of a transit van. Terry "O" ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:44:46 -0400 From: "Heather James" Subject: RE: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets Excuse me? Do you know what good topiary work COSTS these days?? Its just shameless! -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com MCC NOVA's Website: http://www.mccnova.com/ Heather's WebGal Website: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/ My Roxy Music Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ My Trades page: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html >------------------------------------------------------------------------< > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > terrypaulrigz8c > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 5:20 AM > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Douglas Robertson > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > > > > Phantom of the Opera. gets plenty lottery and tax money to > subsidies it ?. > > poor Roxy have to Work for it and Bryans costumes (silver suit) > must have > > cost a bit ?. > > > > Alan > > > > POOR ROXY!!! Excuse me, they are not struggling artists traveling round in > the back of a transit van. > > Terry "O" > > > __________________________________________________________________ > _________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:06:56 +0100 From: "terrypaulrigz8c" Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets No can I buy it buy the metre? Terry "O" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather James To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > Excuse me? > Do you know what good topiary work COSTS these days?? > Its just shameless! > > > -= )-(eather =- > >--------------------< > hjames@thewebgal.com > > > MCC NOVA's Website: http://www.mccnova.com/ > Heather's WebGal Website: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/ > My Roxy Music Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ > My Trades page: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------< > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > > terrypaulrigz8c > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 5:20 AM > > To: avalon@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Douglas Robertson > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets > > > > > > > Phantom of the Opera. gets plenty lottery and tax money to > > subsidies it ?. > > > poor Roxy have to Work for it and Bryans costumes (silver suit) > > must have > > > cost a bit ?. > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > POOR ROXY!!! Excuse me, they are not struggling artists traveling round in > > the back of a transit van. > > > > Terry "O" > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > _________ > > The subliminable footer says: > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:35:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Aleks Kocan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Yawn maybe, but let's get this straight - --- Bill MacCormick wrote: > The one reason they did "This gig" at "those > prices" was because > the promoter told them to. That's what happens when > you sign a contract. This is interesting - I had heard that Roxy played Hammersmith because they couldn't get a larger London venue to fit in with the schedule. If the promoter "told them" to do the gig at "those prices" then maybe they should choose another promoter. Roxy toured to make money - but surely they must have some "ethics/conscience" about them - what about all the fans that have bought records etc.. over the years. In my mind #50/ticket is not a reasonable price - in my mind it is seriously taking the p**s. They would have still made money charging #35/ticket. Aleks Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:22:37 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Two Dicks Battle It Out Don wrote: "...but nowadays unless you throw the word "terrorism" around Congress won't do a thing..." The entertainment industry in the United States had Bill Clinton in their back pocket circa 1993 - of course, his admin. would turn a blind eye when confronted with monopoly accusations. I applaud Pearl Jam's efforts, and frankly, am appalled that more entertainers did not join together and push the issue since it was/is in their best interest in the lang haul. Given today's environment, however, I'd much rather prefer 'Homeland Security' be at the front burner. It's all about windows of opportunity, isn't it. Please, let's not become tangled in a political discussion here. OK? ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:26:41 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. Thom wrote: "...general feeling is that we've always come bottom of the pile where Roxy or Bryan was concerned." Of course we are at the bottom - that is how pyramids (and their schemes) are supported! ;-) "Let's hope tht when the new DVD surfaces that it utilizes the media a heck of a lot better then Bryan's Paris disc did." AMEN! "It would be nice to think that you are who you say you are,.." A bit of critical skepticism is good, to a point... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:34:09 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Yawn maybe, but let's get this straight Aleks wrote: "Roxy toured to make money - but surely they must have some "ethics/conscience" about them - what about all the fans that have bought records etc.. over the years. In my mind #50/ticket is not a reasonable price - in my mind it is seriously taking the p**s. They would have still made money charging #35/ticket." Dear Aleks: While I certainly empathize with your sentiments stated above, I have come to realize that trying to 'humanize' celebrities doesn't usually work. I believe that each individual of Roxy Music has their own set of values, that may or may not encompass "ethics/conscience", but collectively their focus is in themselves as a performing band. Everything else is at best, peripheral. The band does not moralize as a unit because they are not emotionally attached to each other, nor are they emotionally attached to the Roxy Music fan base. I've accepted that we are of little importance to the group as long as we pay the band members' way - they play, we pay. Sad but true, we are a faceless entity, and we are not involved in a mutual caring exchange with Ferry et al. Putting this aside, let's just grin and bear the past! We know the real truth, even if they don't. Best wishes. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:33:42 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Yawn maybe, but let's get this straight Aleks wrote: "Roxy toured to make money - but surely they must have some "ethics/conscience" about them - what about all the fans that have bought records etc.. over the years. In my mind #50/ticket is not a reasonable price - in my mind it is seriously taking the p**s. They would have still made money charging #35/ticket." Dear Aleks: While I certainly empathize with your sentiments stated above, I have come to realize that trying to 'humanize' celebrities doesn't usually work. I believe that each individual of Roxy Music has their own set of values, that may or may not encompass "ethics/conscience", but collectively their focus is in themselves as a performing band. Everything else is at best, peripheral. The band does not moralize as a unit because they are not emotionally attached to each other, nor are they emotionally attached to the Roxy Music fan base. I've accepted that we are of little importance to the group as long as we pay the band members' way - they play, we pay. Sad but true, we are a faceless entity, and we are not involved in a mutual caring exchange with Ferry et al. Putting this aside, let's just grin and bear the past! We know the real truth, even if they don't. Best wishes. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:39:23 EDT From: BPhilipson@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Two Dicks Battle It Out I realize that this is a Roxy Music mailing list, but a political discussion would be as interesting to me as all the non-stop posting about ticket prices that has gone on lately! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:53:24 EDT From: Chandla911@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Hammersmith >"This gig" in your message clearly refers to the Apollo, not the tour as a >whole. The one reason they did "This gig" at "those prices" was because >the promoter told them to. That's what happens when you sign a contract. >Your message, which started pointing out that the theatre wasn't full then >seemed to suggest that ticket prices may have been the cause (quite >possibly ) and that the band were somehow responsible for the ticket >prices, ergo, their greed prevented fans from seeing their last two gigs. >Whether you meant people to infer this from your message or not that was >the very strong impression it gave out... and it is incorrect. OK, blame sloppy writing, I do. I did not, in fact, mean just this individual concert, I meant 'this gig' in the sense of a job of work. The whole tour was clearly a pre-set itinerary of dates with the band being paid the same amount for each show, regardless of how many punters. I think everyone accepts that. Although, if we were being picky, we could say the band did set the ticket prices by accepting and presumably stipulating the payment of the guaranteed fee. Surely no-one in this day and age expects the promoter to underwrite the cost of a concert because it's a more intimate venue and will encourage a better show? However, it did strike me in an off-guard moment that, as there would be eventual income from the DVD, that might be set against the cost of the concert, discounting the cost of the seats...you may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. >And, of course, they did the tour for money. John Peel does pet food >adverts for money. I assume you work for money. What's the problem? No problem with the work for money ethic, none whatsoever. It underpins my argument that the promoter was happy for the concert to sell out 80% or more rather than give the fans a break and sell tickets for #10 less. >I printed what I was told in good faith on Phil's site and, to be blunt, >was as surprised as anyone (as well as considerably embarrassed) that >nothing extra was forthcoming. When I first saw the Apollo ticket prices >I told people that fans deserved something more than the basic show for >that sort of money. Yannick Etienne was not what I had in mind, nice >though it was to see/hear her. I'd be really interested to know what extras you believed in good faith were likely to be provided. It seems you, me and a host of Avalonians had very similar expectations of the end of tour finale. If you were told there would be extras, can you come clean now and tell the rest of us what you were expecting? I agree it was nice to see Yannick Etienne, but you must have built up an idea of what it meant when you put mention of extras on the site. If you were surprised and embarrassed, can you say what the disappointment was? Or who dropped out? I would like to make clear (in case I have muddied waters) I don't think I have any quarrel with Bill whatsoever, I do not expect this to become more of a saga and have copied this e-mail to Bill off-list also (to allow any replies to go off-list). I have seen enough correspondences between two Avalonians to know they can pall somewhat from the perspective of others. My own experience of Expressions website has been one I'd wish repeated by other sites and I know Bill has been mainly responsible for that. But I'm sure many of us would be keen to learn if there were extras planned for Hammersmith that fell through? Best wishes Richard Mills n/p Kate Rusby and Kathryn Roberts ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:58:44 EDT From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Two Dicks Battle It Out In a message dated 26/10/01 15:41:05 GMT Daylight Time, BPhilipson@aol.com writes: > > I realize that this is a Roxy Music mailing list, but a political > discussion would be as interesting to me as all the non-stop posting about > Mind you, thank god we didnt shell out #85 a head for the crappy Madonna tour....then there'd be some complaining....... Jonathan n/p Bruce Willis 'The Return of Bruno' ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:15 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. Tom, Consider this for a moment. If I were a promoter who had just guaranteed a certain amount of money to an artist to play 50 dates anywhere in the world I would not then take too kindly to that artist saying; "oh, and by the way, we won't play there and ticket prices have to be less than x". Tell me, how exactly would that work? Of course, it doesn't. Just as the band wouldn't have taken too kindly to being told by the promoter what guitars to play and how their lighting rig should work, so the promoter made the decisions about where, when and how much without reference to or needing the approval of the band. I'm sure the band would have liked to play Cleveland rather than Atlanta - not their choice. To be blunt, before they had played the dates, they would probably have preferred to play Paris, Madrid, Stockholm and Rome rather than do a re-run round the UK. Again, not their choice. And, if I was the CEO at SFX and the band had come to me and said: "You must make a loss on the Apollo so that the ticket prices can be lower", then I would have not very politely shown them the nearest door. As to the Virgin album that came out, that was a Virgin decision because that's what the contract with Virgin (signed, not by the band, but by their previous management at EG when they sold out to Virgin) allowed. Phil, for one, wanted to do something different, the company took the easy way out and the band could not stop them because of a contract they did not sign. As to your 'Only early Roxy was any good' elitist bullshit, we went through this ad nauseam on the Manzanera forum. Feel free to speak for yourself on your preferences but please give up on the 'I know what the true fans want' crap. Finally, I would like to think I am who I say I am. And I was, last time I looked in the mirror. And if I were to tell anyone in the band anything about this discussion (which I will not) it would be that, surprise, surprise, there is no pleasing some people. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:14:08 +0200 From: "jimbo" Subject: [none] Hello everybody, Has this concert been treed in the past ? Live In California,4 april 1979 USA: 01Manifesto 02Trash 03Out Of The Blue 04Angel Eyes 05Song For Europe 06Still Falls The Rain 07Mother Of Pearl 08Ain't That So 09Stronger Through The Years 10Ladytron 11In Every Dream Home A Heartache 12Love Is A Drug 13Editions Of You 14Do The Strand 15Re-Make/Re-Model jim. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:34:51 EDT From: InterEireann@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] hammersmith tickets/off topic/on topic Well said Philip. By the way, just in case anyone wants to rant on about some more ticket prices , I paid $135 to see U2 last night and it was luvly jubbly. Bloody magnificent! and I am trying to pay more to see them on Sunday night However, I do wish Bono would keep his mouth shut in between songs ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:49 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Yawn maybe, but let's get this straight In article <20011026123555.38953.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com>, aleks50@yahoo.com (Aleks Kocan) wrote: > then maybe > they should choose another promoter. Roxy toured to > make money - but surely they must have some > "ethics/conscience" about them - what about all the > fans that have bought records etc.. over the years. In > my mind #50/ticket is not a reasonable price - in my > mind it is seriously taking the p**s. They would have > still made money charging #35/ticket. Aleks, They SIGNED a contract to do 50 dates. These included the Apollo. How could they "choose another promoter" when they were still under contract to SFX? Let's try to live in the real world. And as for: > They would have > still made money charging #35/ticket. Please try to grasp this: these prices were set by the promoter NOT by the band. I have no idea whether SFX were trying to minimise losses on the tour or maximise profits (and neither does anyone else except them) but they were the only people who lost or profited by the ticket price set. But, whatever they were doing it was their decision to set a 50 quid ticket price. If the band had said 'we aren't playing, the ticket prices are too high' they would have been sued for breach of contract. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:49 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith In article <162.2ec53b0.290ad2e4@aol.com>, Chandla911@aol.com () wrote: > Although, if we were being picky, we could say the band did set the > ticket > prices by accepting and presumably stipulating the payment of the > guaranteed > fee. They did not stipulate anything. They were made an offer which they accepted some months before the venues were even decided upon. Indeed, some venues were being booked only weeks in advance. SFX were entirely responsible for the subsequent arithmetic of necessary income, x , divided by available seats, y, equals seat price, z. > However, it did strike me in an off-guard moment that, as > there= > would be eventual income from the DVD, that might be set against the > cost of= > the concert, discounting the cost of the seats The DVD will be lucky to do more than break even. Live CDs, etc., are notoriously poor sellers. > I'd be really interested to know what extras you believed in good faith > were= > likely to be provided. I haven't got a clue except I knew that speculation that Eno would turn up were always nonsense. I reported in good faith what I was told, i.e. there would be extras, but I was never advised what they might be. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:13 +0100 From: "thom.wallace" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill MacCormick" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. > Tom, > > Consider this for a moment. If I were a promoter who had just guaranteed > a certain amount of money to an artist to play 50 dates anywhere in the > world I would not then take too kindly to that artist saying; "oh, and by > the way, we won't play there and ticket prices have to be less than x". > Tell me, how exactly would that work? Of course, it doesn't. Sorry Bill, but this just don't stick. You can accept a contract or negotiate one with different terms. If the band want to make the most money out of the tour without consideration for their fans that's fine by me just as long as they own up that and don't try and dress it up as something else. > As to the Virgin album that came out, that was a Virgin decision because > that's what the contract with Virgin (signed, not by the band, but by > their previous management at EG when they sold out to Virgin) allowed. > Phil, for one, wanted to do something different, the company took the easy > way out and the band could not stop them because of a contract they did > not sign. I can accept that the record company has the right to re-hash material as they see fit, however you can't extract the band from the situation as it was they who signed the deal with EG in the first place. Are you telling us that when EG sold out to Virgin they negotiated a contract for the services of Roxy without the bands knowlege or agreement? Perhaps you would care to enlighten us to the situation with Roxy and Virgin as to what and for how long they have the rights to issue Roxy albums. > As to your 'Only early Roxy was any good' elitist bullshit, we went > through this ad nauseam on the Manzanera forum. Feel free to speak for > yourself on your preferences but please give up on the 'I know what the > true fans want' crap. Call it bullshit or elitist if you want Bill, but I can only tell you what the fans with whom I am in contact tell me. In turn I doubt very much if you would take the same line if I were to say that every one had thought Vozero was Phil's best work ever.As it is I don't actually recall having said that only the early material was any good, but it's a fact that it had more substance to it than a lot of the material that was released from '79 onwards. > Finally, I would like to think I am who I say I am. Glad to hear it. I've been reliably informed that you are the real Bill MacCormick, please remember that mailing lists of this type are always open to bogus postings. If I remember rightly didn't Bryan's forum recently have a problem with someone posting false messages in his name. Tom Wallace. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:10:42 -0400 From: Heather James Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith Bill - as long as your here - are you familiar with the King Crimson Collector's Club Robert Fripp put together a few years back. Folks join up and send in money up-front for 6 discs, and he works through his old archived concert tapes (and the occasional bootleg), cleans them up, sweetens them and distributes them to the club - about every other month, on average. I believe he's up to release # 16 or 17 these days. Seems like a great way to get material out to the fans that isn't available otherwise, and wouldn't sell in large enough quantities to interest a large record company. I'd heard that Phil had quite a collection of archived recordings ... is this kind of private collectors club a possibility for Roxy and Phil ? or perhaps for 801 or some of the other archived music? -= )-(eather =- >--------------------< hjames@thewebgal.com Heather's WebGal Website: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/ My Roxy Music Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/roxymusic/ My Music Trader Pages: http://www.thewebgal.com/hjames/my-boots.html >-------------------------------------------------------------------------< Bill MacCormick wrote: >>However, it did strike me in an off-guard moment that, as >>there would be eventual income from the DVD, that might be set >>against the cost of the concert, discounting the cost of the seats >> > >The DVD will be lucky to do more than break even. Live CDs, etc., are >notoriously poor sellers. > >BM > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. OK, you know this is serious since I'm about to stick up for T[h]om. On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Bill MacCormick wrote: > time I looked in the mirror. And if I were to tell anyone in the band > anything about this discussion (which I will not) it would be that, > surprise, surprise, there is no pleasing some people. Bill, I would hope that that would not be your report to the band in this case, as I am not sure how you could make such an assumption based on being on this list for just a few days (and perhaps having signed up because someone alerted you to this particular discussion? I'm just extrapolating from the timing and the topic, mind you.) and following one topic. What I would hope that you would do is to stick around for a few weeks before you make any sort of decision or form any sort of opinion about the Avalon mailing list. I would encourage you to lurk for a few weeks, to read what people have to say with an open mind, and to take the time to try to understand this group of people. This is a very different setting than the bulletin board on manzanera.com, even as you may recognize some of the names from that setting. Many of us have been here for 5 or more years (I think I've been here for around 7 years) and the appreciation for and love of the band comes through if you sit back and observe for a bit. But please note that this appreciation for the band doesn't mean that list members don't have critical opinions of the music, the schedule of releases, the (endless<--ed. note) repackaging, the tour, tour prices, and Mr. Ferry's sartorial splendor; many of us don't like everything and this is a place for us to open up discussions on the subject. Contrary to weakening this group, it's what makes it what it is and keeps it vibrant and interesting. It is possible to love someone or something dearly yet at the same time to be very aware if his/her/its faults. Of course, it takes a thick skin to be able to be "on the inside" and to deal with such honest commentary, to be able to see opinions and criticism from knowledgeable fans for what they are, and to be able to resist firing off a response taking someone down by attacking them instead of trying to refute their ideas. People, on this list (and elsewhere, for that matter) are certainly entitled to their opinions, no matter where on the gamut of praise to criticism they fall. And as long as they are backed up with something other than vitriol or name calling, those contrary opinions are something to be celebrated and encouraged, as they infinitely preferable to a herd of sheep merely bleating the same thing. I hope you will take the time to understand the Avalon list. I'm sure it could be an enjoyable experience for all of us. For what it's worth, I don't think one can with a straight face blame the band members for the price of the tickets. The quality of the performances they give/gave, however, is another story... Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:21:59 -0700 From: David Firmin Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith Not blaming you Bill (or anyone else), but who started this rumour mill about the 'extras'? SFX? If one poor sod purchased tickets for any of the reasons listed below, someone has to fess up. On 9/1/01, The Team at Expression Records wrote: Phil mentioned that for the 'extra' shows, which I believe now means Hammersmith, he was hoping they would include not only songs that were, from time to time, dropped but also some others not played on the tour but rehearsed. The Bogus Man was one that comes to mind. On 9/3/01, The Official Roxy Music Tour 2001 News page stated: Phil has confirmed that there will be unspecified 'extras' at all four UK shows at the end of September and beginning of October. The nature of these 'extras' is not yet completely decided but we will bring details as soon as we have them. On 9/19/01 9:49 AM, Daniel Atterbom at daniel.atterbom@odata.se wrote: Manzanera even hinted that Eno might be a special guest at the up-coming London concerts. On 10/2/01 some f**ker wrote to my Roxy forum and wrote: EXTRAS CONFIRMED - I CAN CONFIRM - BRIAN ENO WILL APPEAR FOR THE ENCORE WHICH WILL BE EDITIONS OF YOU & FOR YOUR PLEASURE. On 10/3/01 he wrote: SORRY.....STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. Sorry for the red herring , but there were still unsold tickets...its all PR, Marketing, maximizing brand exposure blah!,blah,blah! on 10/26/01 8:00 AM, Bill MacCormick at bmaccormick@cix.co.uk wrote: > I haven't got a clue except I knew that speculation that Eno would turn up > were always nonsense. I reported in good faith what I was told, i.e. > there would be extras, but I was never advised what they might be. > > BM *** ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:32:44 +0100 From: "Duncan Watkins" Subject: [AVALON] Remake Hammersmith With Extras! So to sum up the last couple of days postings: If Remake/Remodel were to play Hammersmith with the price of tickets worked out after numbers sold were known (to cover costs only) and 'extras' from some of the proposed BF 2002 set lists/Rock Follies- would 'everybody' be happy?! Regards, Duncan. ps all seats front row of course. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:33:58 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith At 10.21 -0700 1-10-26, David Firmin wrote: >On 9/19/01 9:49 AM, Daniel Atterbom at daniel.atterbom@odata.se wrote: >Manzanera even hinted that Eno might be a special guest at the up-coming >London concerts. Yes I did write that, sorry if I misunderstood mr Manzanera. He was a very nice interviewee in Copenhagen. I would like to see a 801 reunion. NP Lars Winnerback's cover of Ani Di Franco's "You had time" in Swedish, Du hade tid Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:53:17 -0400 From: "ppavlock" Subject: [AVALON] Thank you Bill Mac I think it is time to back off Bill. He has done a wonderful job keeping us informed on the Manzanera site. It is like having a "cousin" on the inside. To have someone who played(plays)with Phil keeping us abreast of what's up should be more than enough. I was not lucky enough to go to any of this years shows. I depend on Avalon and Phils site to satisfy me. I love getting the autographed CDs at a great price. As any webmaster can tell you it's a bitch to run these sites. I gotta say a personal thank you to Bill Mac for all he's done. I wished he would have been the bassist for the tour as payment for doing the Roxy thing properly. Hey, he can sing and is a damn good plucker, too, maybe next time................I can't wait for an 801 reunion now. ....okay now lets push for proper releases of old bbc roxy stuff instead of bickering...Jeff ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:14 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bill MacCormick a fans reply, long post. Colleen, I've been on this list for over two years. I've just never felt motivated to post anything before. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:14 +0100 (BST) From: bmaccormick@cix.co.uk (Bill MacCormick) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Hammersmith In article , eddieriff@yahoo.com (David Firmin) wrote: > On 9/1/01, The Team at Expression Records wrote: > Phil mentioned that for the 'extra' shows, which I believe now means > Hammersmith, he was hoping they would include not only songs that were, > from > time to time, dropped but also some others not played on the tour but > rehearsed. The Bogus Man was one that comes to mind. This is what I was told. I took it in good faith. > On 9/3/01, The Official Roxy Music Tour 2001 News page stated: > Phil has confirmed that there will be unspecified 'extras' at all four > UK > shows at the end of September and beginning of October. The nature of > these > 'extras' is not yet completely decided but we will bring details as > soon as > we have them. Again, what I was told and I reported it in good faith. > On 9/19/01 9:49 AM, Daniel Atterbom at daniel.atterbom@odata.se wrote: > Manzanera even hinted that Eno might be a special guest at the up-coming > London concerts. I find this unlikely but only Daniel can tell us exactly what Phil said. I always believed that there was never any chance of Eno appearing on stage or even in the audience. My main feeling was that they would, at least, play a much longer set with some of the extra songs they rehearsed but I was never actually told this. > On 10/2/01 some f**ker wrote to my Roxy forum and wrote: > EXTRAS CONFIRMED - I CAN CONFIRM - BRIAN ENO WILL APPEAR FOR THE ENCORE > WHICH WILL BE EDITIONS OF YOU & FOR YOUR PLEASURE. See above. I have no idea who was responsible for this. Given the history over the past few years this was never on. > On 10/3/01 he wrote: > SORRY.....STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. > Sorry for the red herring , but there were still unsold tickets...its > all > PR, Marketing, maximizing brand exposure blah!,blah,blah! It wouldn't altogether surprise me if some 'enterprising' person associated with the tour tried this on, though I have no idea who it could be. Certainly, the band itself had no financial interest in drumming up ticket sales and given the lack of time available (and their widespread lack of interest/understanding of the Internet) I find it difficult to believe that anyone directly associated with the main men would have resorted to this underhand ploy. BM ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #499 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest