From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #294 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Monday, July 9 2001 Volume 06 : Number 294 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Melbourne gig ["Stephen Palmer" ] RE: REPLY-REMODEL: [AVALON] La Mariee Mise A Nu Par Ses Celibataires, Meme & Jack Kirby again ["Guy Lawley" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:29:21 -0000 From: "Stephen Palmer" Subject: [AVALON] Melbourne gig Hi, I have been on the list for months but this is my first post. I just had to let the world know that I have acquired tickets for the Melbourne gig dead centre four rows back. Not as good as the front row seats my brother got for the Mamouna tour but still. Went a bit silly at that gig when Bryan played Editions of You (best song ever written) and dashed to the front where I was the only person dancing (got to dance with the great man for a fw minutes). When I turned around everyone was up so I didn't feel like such a dill. If anyone is interested I though we could organise a meet at Club UK pre the gig. Cheers. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:50:56 +0100 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: REPLY-REMODEL: [AVALON] La Mariee Mise A Nu Par Ses Celibataires, Meme & Jack Kirby again He is the duck man. He is the walrus. Goo goo ga joob. Guy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Daniel Atterbom Sent: 08 July 2001 13:39 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: REPLY-REMODEL: [AVALON] La Mariee Mise A Nu Par Ses Celibataires, Meme & Jack Kirby again Guy, Grant et al, from a Ferry/Roxy perspective Kirby is the tops, the cat's pyjamarama. Carl Barks is merely the bogus man, sorry duck man. NP Joe Cocker, Sorry seems to be the hardest word (really) Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:50:59 +0100 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Bryan Ferry, move over! Yes, but what we really need to know is... what did the green demon with horns tell you about your future? Guy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Artman1@aol.com Sent: 08 July 2001 14:25 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] Bryan Ferry, move over! Hi all, Yesterday, my neighborhood was having little barbecue and part of the entertainment included good ol' karaoke. Naturally, when I'm anywhere where karaoke is available, the first thing I do is check the book for Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music tunes since, at least in my car or at home, I feel I can sing them reasonably well. Not totally expecting to actually see any I checked the book and lo and behold! Virginia Plain and Love is the Drug! I decided for my debut at the barbecue I would do Virginia Plain.... etc. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:55:57 +0100 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] La Mariee Mise A Nu Par Ses Celibataires, Meme Well said. Guy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Colleen Matan Sent: 08 July 2001 18:51 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: RE: [AVALON] La Mariee Mise A Nu Par Ses Celibataires, Meme Heather wrote: > .....The ready-mades were a good example, a snow shovel or a toilet > (fountain) picked from a store window and signed by Duchamp, > symbolized the arbitraryness of the art object as an invention... > > I just wonder how much Ferry's choice to do covers, was a conscious > decision, influenced by Duchamp, to challenge the idea of the artist > as a creator of originals - a delay in sound. In response, Guy wrote: > Peutetre. But it remains possible that Ferry's talk of "ready-mades" > (aka cover versions) is something of a smokescreen... possibly a > conceptual joke in its own right. It doesn't really compute if one > tries to take it seriously... for starters, a "ready-made" cover would > actually be the original recording with Ferry's (or R.Mutt's) name on > it. Not a new version. And BF has also admitted that he did covers > partly to learn how conventional songwriters structured their work, > his own style being so unconventional (and uncommercial, maybe?). Also > an album of covers has a chance of selling to fans of the originals as > well as one's own fans. No-one's in the pop music business solely to > gratify their own artistic impulses, n'est ce pas? I think it's an interesting comparison, but not necessarily one that can be carried too far. Ferry's certainly versed in art and art history, but I don't see him as doing what he does with those concepts as his driving force. It's more like they're there in the background, mixing up with everything else that influences and shapes his work. I think it's easy to over-emphasize his training with Richard Hamilton, especially as it moves away from "In Every Dreamhome..." Second, by signing those "ready-mades" and selling them, Duchamp was deliberately making a provocative political and artistic statement, for because of his fame and desirability amongst collectors, it was his signature which made those items suddenly valuable--his handwritten name as signifier. He had to be laughing at, and not necessarily with, the people who paid those huge amounts of money for the end result. Ferry cannot imprint the same sort of signature on the song, nor even if he could would it have quite these intrinsic value as Duchamp's did. Furthermore, Ferry has never had any intention whatsoever of biting the hand that feeds him, and that opens doors to country homes, private dinners, and parties (including the one the night before Diana's wedding). For what it's worth I think a close correlation could be made between the chance music of John Cage (and others) and William Burroughs, particularly the way that _Naked Lunch_ was assembled. Third, there is a long standing tradition in popular music of covering other people's songs. Ferry, unlike Duchamp, didn't invent this. The idea of the singer/*songwriter* had limited currency (which isn't to say that it didn't exist in folk, bluegrass, country, rockabilly) until the 1960s, most notably in the public's mind with Bob Dylan. Prior to that, and even going forward, many singers were making their bread and butter not only singing songs that other people wrote, but increasingly in the 60s and 70s (with some hilarious results), covering relatively recent songs. Ferry was tapping into a very mainstream current (although I certainly admit that what he does to most of his covers is quite spectacular and original. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:33:27 -0700 From: "Eman 97" Subject: [AVALON] if it takes all night.... "And I'll find myself, if it takes all night...." >>Also, other Roxy songs such as "Three and Nine" or "If it Takes All Night," refer to "a trip to the movies," a chance to get away from it all and dream on the silver screen, the quintessential experience of escapism that defined the modern era. The most oft cited interpretation of IF IT TAKES ALL NIGHT is that is is about being too drunk to F__k. "More champagne." I am sure that one has been discussed here, hasn't it? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #294 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest