From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #62 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Sunday, February 18 2001 Volume 06 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] A Mad Affair ["Guy Lawley" ] [AVALON] Avalon updated [Kicki Gustafsson ] Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... [LeeSullivn] Re: [AVALON] Avalon updated ["linn van vliet" ] Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Thanks for A Mad Affair [KWil632057@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] A Mad Affair [KB Porter ] R: [AVALON] Avalon updated ["danilo" ] [AVALON] camden marketwhich ["Niki H" ] [AVALON] camden market ["Niki H" ] Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals ["Tim Kendrick" ] Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals [Colleen Matan Subject: [AVALON] A Mad Affair Well... that was fun! Remake Remodel are simply fabulous, a worthy tribute to Our Heroes. Hearing a generous (2 sets) selection of Big Hits and more "obscure" numbers (including some Ferry solo favourites) played live in a small club... wonderful! It really brought the songs back to life in a way that listening to them on your own hi-fi simply can't do. Of course it wouldn't have worked if the band hadn't been both talented and full of exuberant enthusiasm. Thankfully they are. And what a treat to meet up with fellow Avalonians for the first time in that friendly atmosphere. People from all over England, Scotland and Ireland, and of course, Holland! People whose first Roxy gig was in 1972 and youngsters who first picked up a Greatest Hits package in 1994! Huge thanks to Jocelyn and Johnny for all their hard work, to the band for taking the chance on coming over for the first time (hope it's not the last) and everyone else who helped out. Jocelyn told the assembled crowd it wouldn't have happened without us, but we know it wouldn't have happened without those few who slogged through the tough tasks of organising it all. Can the reunion tour possibly be any more fun than this? I doubt it. And will Bill McCormick (who was there) get round to telling Phil Manzanera that there actually is a Roxy tribute band, and a bloody good one at that? Guy ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:22:57 +0100 From: Kicki Gustafsson Subject: [AVALON] Avalon updated Hi, http://www.avalon.pp.se has been updated with new press cuttings (follow the link from the top in the left frame) and also a new member profile, Pete Kohut. There are now 94 member profiles on the site, which is roughly one third of the total number of s*ubscribers to Avalon (regular+digest version). I still get a lot of questions from people who s*ubscirbe to this list, asking me why their name has yet to appear on my site when they have been getting mails from the list for several months. The list on my site consists of people who wanted to put their profile on my site. It is _not_ a list with the names of all who subscribe to the Avalon mailinglist. This is how I describe it in the ABOUT THIS SITE-section: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Another thing that I thought would be fun, was to present the subcribers of the list with a sort of fill-out-form, where everyone could state when they started to like Roxy/Ferry, their favourite albums/songs, concerts seen and so on and so forth. A lot of people on the list responded warmly to this idea, and a large number of Member Profiles can be read in the Members of the Avalon mailinglist section. You can either browse through the entire list, or search for fellow countrymen by selecting the list closest to where you live. PLEASE NOTE: Presenting yourself on this site is entirely voluntary. Therefore, you won't find a-l-l subscribers to the Avalon mailinglist on this site, because it is n-o-t requiered of you to appear here. Mail me if you want me to put up your profile. Look at the other profiles and write in the same manner. Just type this in a regular e-mail, you don't have to attach a specific document for the profile, and leave the HTML-editing to me. If you have a photo of yourself to go along with the profile  great! The resolution needs to be no higher than 72 dots/inch. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please ask yourselves: How can Kicki know when I first got into Roxy, which my favourite album is and my favourite Ferry-song if I don't tell her in a mail? Is it reasonable to expect her to read the minds of every new s*ubscriber to the maillinglist Avalon? Of course not! But if you mail me and tell me about these things, I will put your name on the list :-) /Kicki - ----------- Kicki Gustafsson, webansvarig Vstersunds-Postens redaktion Tel: 063-161659 Mobil: 070-366 03 30 kicki.gustafsson@op.se http://www.op.se ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 06:26:47 EST From: LeeSullivn@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... In a message dated 2/17/01 2:38:00 PM GMT Standard Time, kbporte@attglobal.net writes: > Oh, so quickly > it all dissolved (surprise?) into a Who is kitsch and Who is dated and > Who is to cheap for the likes of Bryan Ferry, etc.,etc. KBP, Thanks for the compressed history! Kitsch, dated, tawdry nostalgia with a SF tinge would never be associated with our heroes, would it? Lee ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:20:18 +0100 From: "linn van vliet" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon updated Sorry Kicki, I did not know it worked that way, I will send you my personals.\ Thanks for explaining, greetings Linn - ---------- >From: Kicki Gustafsson >To: avalon@smoe.org >Subject: [AVALON] Avalon updated >Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001, 12:22 > > Hi, > > http://www.avalon.pp.se has been updated with new press cuttings (follow > the link from the top in the left frame) and also a new member profile, > Pete Kohut. > > There are now 94 member profiles on the site, which is roughly one third of > the total number of s*ubscribers to Avalon (regular+digest version). > I still get a lot of questions from people who s*ubscirbe to this list, > asking me why their name has yet to appear on my site when they have been > getting mails from the list for several months. > > The list on my site consists of people who wanted to put their profile on > my site. It is _not_ a list with the names of all who subscribe to the > Avalon mailinglist. > This is how I describe it in the ABOUT THIS SITE-section: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Another thing that I thought would be fun, was to present the subcribers of > the list > with a sort of fill-out-form, where everyone could state when they > started to like > Roxy/Ferry, their favourite albums/songs, concerts seen and so on and so > forth. A > lot of people on the list responded warmly to this idea, and a large > number of > Member Profiles can be read in the Members of the Avalon mailinglist > section. You can either browse through the entire list, or search for fellow > countrymen by selecting the list closest to where you live. > > PLEASE NOTE: Presenting yourself on this site is entirely voluntary. > Therefore, you > won't find a-l-l subscribers to the Avalon mailinglist on this site, > because it is n-o-t > requiered of you to appear here. > Mail me if you want me to put up your profile. Look at the other profiles and > write in the same manner. Just type this in a regular e-mail, you don't > have to attach > a specific document for the profile, and leave the HTML-editing to me. If > you have a > photo of yourself to go along with the profile  great! The resolution > needs to be no > higher than 72 dots/inch. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Please ask yourselves: How can Kicki know when I first got into Roxy, which > my favourite album is and my favourite Ferry-song if I don't tell her in a > mail? > Is it reasonable to expect her to read the minds of every new s*ubscriber > to the maillinglist Avalon? > Of course not! > But if you mail me and tell me about these things, I will put your name on > the list :-) > > /Kicki > > > ----------- > Kicki Gustafsson, webansvarig > Vstersunds-Postens redaktion > Tel: 063-161659 > Mobil: 070-366 03 30 > kicki.gustafsson@op.se > http://www.op.se > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:50:12 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals Dear Michael: Thank you for your reply. "I have never considered Bryan's interests and opinions to be relevant to the music I enjoy (sounds shallow, I know)." Shallow? I don't think so - it is perfectly all right to enjoy something and not be interested in the background of the thing. ( Whew, at least I don't have to justify why I prefer asparagus sautied in olive oil vs. butter, per say.) It shall be interesting to see what, if anything, evolves from BF's position on the hunt - be it positive or negative. Again, thank you, Michael! Best wishes. K.B.Porter ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:09:47 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Times Front page news Dear Martin: Thanks for the article. I wonder, does LD Publicity really think that Mr. Ferry's tour will not be dogged (or less bitten) by animal rights activists if he opts out of the pro hunt march? Hummm. The plot thickens. Will he, or won't he, wear leather pants on stage? ;^) KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:19:06 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Thanks for A Mad Affair Thanks to all responsible for all your hard work in oraganising a truly brilliant evening. It was truly excellent. Thanks!! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:21:27 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] A Mad Affair < And will Bill McCormick (who was there) get round to telling Phil Manzanera that there actually is a Roxy tribute band, and a bloody good one at that? > Yes, will he. But then Bryan Ferry says he knows nothing of our little troop, Avalon. Slams the Remake/Remodel Group by declaring there are no Roxy tribute bands in existence (because Roxy material is too difficult to do). He must lead a very sheltered life. Or has studied under Bill Clinton. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:32:43 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: R: [AVALON] Avalon updated Ciao Kicki I was just waiting to be the 101 member LOL .-) dan ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:38:52 -0000 From: "Niki H" Subject: [AVALON] camden marketwhich which ones of you avalonians went to a shop in camden market saturday 17 and bought all the Brian Ferry stuff that was reserved for me? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:42:57 -0000 From: "Niki H" Subject: [AVALON] camden market which ones of you avalonians went to a shop in camden market saturday 17 and bought all the Brian Ferry stuff that was reserved for me? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:57:53 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... LOL! "Kitsch, dated, tawdry nostalgia with a SF tinge would never be associated with our heroes, would it?" LOL! Of course, my brief brief doesn't adequately convey the Who discussion. Neil Jones (not my dentist) suggested the archives for an accurate read. I am proud to present you the magic link: http://www.smoe.org/lists/avalon/ ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:50:52 -0500 From: "Tim Kendrick" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals >If I thought for one moment that in buying his records I would be supporting >the hunting section of the community then I would stop immediately. > There are numerous pursuits in our society in which I do not want to participate, but I support the right of other people to pursue them. I have never hunted or wanted to hunt, but 'freedom' (as opposed to 'democracy', that chillingly dictatorial voice of the 'masses' which is constantly trying to tell me what to think and do) means recognising that human life is not wholly rational or attractive, and the attempt to make it so is a kind of fascism. The fact is that 'the hunting section of the community' is a large part of those who actually live and work in the country. They've put forward perfectly reasoned defences of their sport, and I think they should be allowed to pursue it. It is not for those who have never seen a fox to tell them how to live. There's an increase in the prevalence of foxes in British cities, and when they start eating babies maybe there will be less sentimentality about them. In the end, one has to side with the Countryside Alliance, even if with reservations, against the wish of others to encroach on the lives and traditions of these people. It says something about Ferry's frankness that he's willing to support a view, and for quite decent reasons to do with employment and community, not to mention his own son, which inevitably would bring out the moans of the Politically Correct. I cannot think of another 'pop star' who would have the courage. Tim ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:04:36 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... Don't forget the series of skimpily clad girls who 'assist' our hero....... In a message dated 18/02/01 15:44:26 GMT Standard Time, kbporte@attglobal.net writes: > ! "Kitsch, dated, tawdry nostalgia with a SF tinge would never be > associated with our heroes, would it?" ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:49:31 EST From: AMeyersLD@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon updated In a message dated 2/18/01 5:40:24 AM, kicki.gustafsson@op.se writes: << Please ask yourselves: How can Kicki know when I first got into Roxy, which my favourite album is and my favourite Ferry-song if I don't tell her in a mail? >> But I thought you knew Everything! Now I am dis-illusioned.... Andrew in Chicago ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:51:14 EST From: AMeyersLD@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals In a message dated 2/18/01 8:00:31 AM, kbporte@attglobal.net writes: << "I have never considered Bryan's interests and opinions to be relevant to the music I enjoy (sounds shallow, I know)." >> In the house I grew up in, this was known as the "Can we listen to Wagner, even though we're Jewish?" conundrum. Andrew in Chicago ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:57:52 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals I've been idlely thinking about this this morning. I think it'd be presumptuous of me to pretend I know enough about this issue to take a stand one way or another. And it can't come as a surprise to learn that I think people should stand up for what they believe in, so if people want to picket the Roxy shows or boycott Ferry, let them. But what I find disturbing, if not distasteful, is when opposition and disagreement turn into intimidation and violence. Certainly Ferry--or anyone of us, for that matter--has every right to espouse any position he likes? and certainly these issues should certainly be discussed instead of shouted, no? I know, I expect too much from the world. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:07:40 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals I think, sadly, that it is the use of the word 'sport' that makes this arguement all the more emotive. In a message dated 18/02/01 16:35:08 GMT Standard Time, tim63@earthlink.net writes: > They've put forward perfectly reasoned defences of > their sport ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:05:44 -0000 From: "michael ferguson" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals Hi Tim. Interesting point. Just where would you draw the line in the interests of freedom? Fox Hunting? Badger baiting? Cock fighting? If you take your viewpoint to it's extreme, nothing would be illegal. We would live in complete anarchy. I have no argument with the farmer who shoots a fox to protect his livestock, at least this is fairly humane. What I find revolting is the unnecessary cruelty, and the enjoyment members of the hunt obviously get from killing. I am sure that the hunt will put forward reasonable-sounding arguements in favour of their "sport" including the ignorence of "townies". Unfortunately if you look a little deeper into what they are saying the flaws begin to show. Why have so many farmers banned them from their land? Anyway..... If anyone would like to know the other side of the arguement, please feel free to e-mail me off line. All the best Mike > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:23:19 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, michael ferguson wrote: > If you take your viewpoint to it's extreme, nothing would be illegal. > We would live in complete anarchy. Just a point I'd like to make since I'm procrastinating and trying to avoid the work spread out on the coffee table in the next room: although it has come to mean chaos, disorder, and the like, in its purest sense, anarchy means living without a state, but it does not presuppose these negative things. Quite the opposite, in fact. Unfortunately with human nature being what it is.... Now anoraky, well, that's another system altogether (but I'll leave that to Simon [once he's recovered from the AMA festivities]). Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:30:42 +0100 From: "C.H.Soetemann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... KB, how, just how can you be sure he's not your dentist??? It's still one of the greatest hopes I retain regarding this list that Neil turns out to be exactly that. Christian - - who has studied under neither Clinton nor Hamilton - incidentally, since W is president now - is it still allowed to be in possession of books sporting over 200 pages? Yes? Doubleplusgood. oh - sorry for that slip... - ---------- >Von: KB Porter >An: avalon@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... >Datum: Son, 18. Feb 2001 15:57 Uhr > >Neil Jones (not my dentist) suggested the archives for an accurate >read. I am proud to present you the magic > He > must lead a very sheltered life. Or has studied under Bill Clinton. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:34:39 -0000 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals Well said, Tim. I think the current government is making a mistake in crusading against hunting. I wouldn't quite go as far as saying I'd "side with the Countryside Alliance", so I'm glad you express "reservations" about that! Many of them, I suspect, have their own "kind(s) of fascism" going for them! Mike Ferguson made some well-argued points for the other side, but I can't accept the assertion that "Up until now most hunt supporters have been faceless members of the upper classes." There are plenty of middle and working class people who support hunting, many of them deriving some or all of their income from the raising and training of hounds. I'd be very interested to know from European Avalonians whether the hunting scene, which seems to me very much a part of English tradition, has its counterparts in other countries. And if so, is there a similarly vocal/demonstrative anti-hunting tendency there as well? As for Bryan Ferry's pro-hunting stance, it is clearly understandable in the context of his wish to be accepted amongst the rural community. This can be easily mocked as "social climbing" by those of us who have no such ambition, myself included. But "no such ambition" might simply mean "no such opportunity". Who's to say how I might behave if I won a few million on the lottery and became a man of leisure with a big country house? I'd rather look on all this from the perspective Tim expresses so well, which might be summed up as "live and let live." I'm aware that the foxes in question might argue the point here; they are only let live if they are particularly fast, cunning or lucky. But at some point one has to decide whether the interests of a predatory animal (subject to trapping and killing anyway because it threatens poultry) or those of a community of human beings (of all classes) win out. So, while I wouldn't describe myself as actively pro-hunting, I am against banning the hunt. Final point: when I see an urban fox in the headlight beam of my car late at night, as I often do here in SW London, I am positively thrilled to see it; a bit of wild nature surviving in the green patches of the urban sprawl. I certainly don't gun my engine and try to run it down. It's a matter of different contexts, different points of view, and it's complicated. Simplistic arguments from politicians seeking votes or anywhere else don't seem appropriate to me. Guy - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Kendrick There are numerous pursuits in our society in which I do not want to participate, but I support the right of other people to pursue them. I have never hunted or wanted to hunt, but 'freedom' (as opposed to 'democracy', that chillingly dictatorial voice of the 'masses' which is constantly trying to tell me what to think and do) means recognising that human life is not wholly rational or attractive, and the attempt to make it so is a kind of fascism. The fact is that 'the hunting section of the community' is a large part of those who actually live and work in the country. They've put forward perfectly reasoned defences of their sport, and I think they should be allowed to pursue it. It is not for those who have never seen a fox to tell them how to live. There's an increase in the prevalence of foxes in British cities, and when they start eating babies maybe there will be less sentimentality about them. In the end, one has to side with the Countryside Alliance, even if with reservations, against the wish of others to encroach on the lives and traditions of these people. It says something about Ferry's frankness that he's willing to support a view, and for quite decent reasons to do with employment and community, not to mention his own son, which inevitably would bring out the moans of the Politically Correct. I cannot think of another 'pop star' who would have the courage. Tim ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:00:02 -0000 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals >-----Original Message----- >From: >michael ferguson >Just where would you draw the line in the interests of freedom? >Fox Hunting? Badger baiting? Cock fighting? >If you take your viewpoint to it's extreme, nothing would be illegal. We >would live in complete anarchy. Mike, this isn't really a fair argument. Neither Tim nor any faction in the current hunting debate is asking for a return to the days when bear-baiting, dog-fighting, cock-fighting etc. were legal. They're just asking for the one surviving hunting culture in this country (if you discount fishing!) to be left in place. >I have no argument with the farmer who shoots a fox to protect his >livestock, at least this is fairly humane. What I find revolting is the >unnecessary cruelty, and the enjoyment members of the hunt obviously get >from killing. I agree that the spectacle of a bunch of hooray Henries gathered around to watch dogs kill a fox is abhorrent. So I won't try and watch it. Similarly, I avoid Top Of The Pops and Eastenders. More seriously, this is essentially a moral argument as well as one about what one personally finds revolting. There are still plenty of people around who find the idea of two men having sex both morally and personally revolting. There are whole cultures which find the education of women or the wearing of a Leonardo de Caprio hairstyle morally unacceptable. If you take *your* viewpoint to the extreme, what would *not* be illegal? Would we live in a puritanical totalitarian state? Leaving aside such extremes, which I don't think any of us engaging in this debate would wish for, we find ourselves in the current real situation in Britain, in which different cultures and beliefs have to try and get along. Some compromises are required. When it comes to banning the hunt, I'm with Tim. Which, as luck would have it, allows me to continue enjoying the music of Bryan Ferry without any moral dilemma. Still wish he'd kept his mouth shut on the issue though. Guy ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:38:34 -0000 From: "ncjones.lewis2" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... Christian, I doubt I would be allowed near anyone's mouth (no its not because of any history I may - or may not - have with the herpes virus) due to the fact that I am officially the worlds clumsiest man (ask my colleges,) coupled with my silver medal in vagueness (see my pathetic attempts at helping Lee Sullivan with the archives link,) poor old KB's cakehole would be a right state. (that reminds me - I must dig out my copy of Marathon Man!) No, I maintain that there simply must be two Neil Joneses (one with a whinny little drill thing and a high tolerance of halitosis, and one with Block A -w19 tickets for Birmingham - I know which one I would rather be!) Open wide (and don't forget to spit) Neil Jones - ----- Original Message ----- From: C.H.Soetemann To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... > KB, how, just how can you be sure he's not your dentist??? It's still one of > the greatest hopes I retain regarding this list that Neil turns out to be > exactly that. > > Christian > > - who has studied under neither Clinton nor Hamilton - incidentally, since W > is president now - is it still allowed to be in possession of books sporting > over 200 pages? Yes? Doubleplusgood. oh - sorry for that slip... > > ---------- > >Von: KB Porter > >An: avalon@smoe.org > >Betreff: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... > >Datum: Son, 18. Feb 2001 15:57 Uhr > > > > >Neil Jones (not my dentist) suggested the archives for an accurate > >read. I am proud to present you the magic > > > He > > must lead a very sheltered life. Or has studied under Bill Clinton. > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:43:59 EST From: LeeSullivn@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Savoy Ballroom : The thrill, the thrill, the.... In a message dated 2/18/01 5:00:19 PM GMT Standard Time, KWil632057@aol.com writes: > on't forget the series of skimpily clad girls who 'assist' our hero.......' > Of course! 'Country Life' for example: the cover depicting two young ladies having been dropped off by Doctor Ferry on an exotic beach at night, once their assistance had been reduced to the traditional screaming/twisting of ankles. The Tardis cannot be seen as it has, naturally, dematerialised. I believe the US cover featured the deleted scene just before the Doc arrives. (This episode was remade featuring Mr Ivor Canning but has yet to emerge from classification and is unlikely ever to see the light of day. Unless he doesn't come up with the dough.) Lee ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:50:21 EST From: Julialiva@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals In einer eMail vom 18.02.01 18:26:52 (MEZ) Mitteleuropdische Zeit schreibt mikeandcarole@ferguson237.fsnet.co.uk: << I have no argument with the farmer who shoots a fox to protect his livestock, at least this is fairly humane. What I find revolting is the unnecessary cruelty, and the enjoyment members of the hunt obviously get from killing. >> That's it; how can you call such cruelty sport? Must be pretty weak people who dare to be "heroes" - it's such a lousy way to feel important and strong! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:50:24 EST From: Julialiva@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Music tour could be dogged by anti-hunt demonstrators In einer eMail vom 17.02.01 21:26:10 (MEZ) Mitteleuropdische Zeit schreibt ncjones.lewis2@ntlworld.com: << Please respond and prove me wrong. >> Hi Neil, you are right, "great news" did not express my real feelings, the english words don't seem fit. This happened to me a couple of times, when I could not think of better words. English is not my mothertongue, therefore you must forgive me. What I tried to say is that I think it's great to see that some people in your country have the strength to complain about some strange "traditions", that it is certainly worth to think about whether they are still necessary. Hunting as a "sport" seems useless to me. If Ferry speaks for fox-hunting (which is his right) he has to face the other side of opinions and reactions too. Sad he does not attend the demo; he should at least stick to his support and "go through" it. Does not look very good. Hunting is easier, isn't it. No wonder, he's into that. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:18:43 EST From: KWil632057@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals As they say though, any publicity is good publicity! In a message dated 18/02/01 18:18:45 GMT Standard Time, organism-001@supanet.com writes: > Which, as luck would have it, allows me to continue enjoying the music > of Bryan Ferry without any moral dilemma. Still wish he'd kept his mouth > shut on the issue though. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:31:03 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: [AVALON] Hunters and collectors Nein, das ist nicht Das Ende der Welt I can guess what U mean Julia , english is not my mothertongue too... BTW is not easy to use forgiveness for so called sportsmen hunters!! Wiedersehn dan - -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: > In einer eMail vom 17.02.01 21:26:10 (MEZ) Mitteleuropdische Zeit schreibt > ncjones.lewis2@ntlworld.com: > > << Please respond and prove me wrong. >> > Hi Neil, you are right, "great news" did not express my real feelings, the > english words don't seem fit. This happened to me a couple of times, when I > could not think of better words. English is not my mothertongue, therefore > you must forgive me. What I tried to say is that I think it's great to see > that some people in your country have the strength to complain about some > strange "traditions", that it is certainly worth to think about whether they > are still necessary. Hunting as a "sport" seems useless to me. If Ferry > speaks for fox-hunting (which is his right) he has to face the other side of > opinions and reactions too. Sad he does not attend the demo; he should at > least stick to his support and "go through" it. Does not look very good. > Hunting is easier, isn't it. No wonder, he's into that. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:48:49 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals Guy writes: > Still wish he'd kept his mouth shut on the issue though. Why? That seems rather unfair. Certainly Mr. Ferry enjoys the right to express his opinions on issues. And if his doing so makes it hard for those who purport to hold a moral stance on an issue, well, then so be it. Part of holding such a stance involves sacrifice, and that's why I often admire the people who truly do espouse these ideas and/or objections. No one said doing The Right Thing, whatever you hold that to be, was going to be easy. Which is why I am a bit disappointed Mr. Ferry has withdrawn from the demonstration (unless his being there puts others in more danger). Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:11:54 +0100 From: "C.H.Soetemann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals It's a difficult topic, isn't it? Here in Germany, I have yet to learn of a more than regional hunting tradition, and yet I can say je suis contre la chasse! I don't agree with Ferry's view, and I think that in a TV special around 1994 he called hunting balls "terrible". Certainly, rural communities may have their reasons for being pro-hunting (reasons I may not agree with), but what's important to me is that when anti-hunting activists become so militant as to accept humans being injured, which would not be entirely unthinkable were a demonstration to take place at a Roxy gig or so. No violation of the right to demonstrate at all, but I find it utterly despicable if somebody depreciates a human being's life in favour of an animal. Some activists seem to be closer to the position of the old woman embracing her poodle and wanting the nasty, nasty punks around her to be hanged... Well I made that one up, but similar things occur. Christian - ---------- >Von: "Guy Lawley" >An: >Betreff: RE: [AVALON] Sweet little innocent furry animals >Datum: Son, 18. Feb 2001 18:34 Uhr > >Well said, Tim. I think the current government is making a mistake in >crusading against hunting. > >I wouldn't quite go as far as saying I'd "side with the Countryside >Alliance", so I'm glad you express "reservations" about that! Many of them, >I suspect, have their own "kind(s) of fascism" going for them! > >Mike Ferguson made some well-argued points for the other side, but I can't >accept the assertion that "Up until now >most hunt supporters have been faceless members of the upper classes." There >are plenty of middle and working class people who support hunting, many of >them deriving some or all of their income from the raising and training of >hounds. > >I'd be very interested to know from European Avalonians whether the hunting >scene, which seems to me very much a part of English tradition, has its >counterparts in other countries. And if so, is there a similarly >vocal/demonstrative anti-hunting tendency there as well? > >As for Bryan Ferry's pro-hunting stance, it is clearly understandable in the >context of his wish to be accepted amongst the rural community. This can be >easily mocked as "social climbing" by those of us who have no such ambition, >myself included. But "no such ambition" might simply mean "no such >opportunity". Who's to say how I might behave if I won a few million on the >lottery and became a man of leisure with a big country house? > >I'd rather look on all this from the perspective Tim expresses so well, >which might be summed up as "live and let live." I'm aware that the foxes in >question might argue the point here; they are only let live if they are >particularly fast, cunning or lucky. But at some point one has to decide >whether the interests of a predatory animal (subject to trapping and killing >anyway because it threatens poultry) or those of a community of human beings >(of all classes) win out. > >So, while I wouldn't describe myself as actively pro-hunting, I am against >banning the hunt. > >Final point: when I see an urban fox in the headlight beam of my car late at >night, as I often do here in SW London, I am positively thrilled to see it; >a bit of wild nature surviving in the green patches of the urban sprawl. I >certainly don't gun my engine and try to run it down. It's a matter of >different contexts, different points of view, and it's complicated. >Simplistic arguments from politicians seeking votes or anywhere else don't >seem appropriate to me. > >Guy ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #62 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest