From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V6 #43 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Wednesday, February 7 2001 Volume 06 : Number 043 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: RE: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic ["Ivor Canning" ] Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen ["Simon Galloway" ] RE: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic [Jocelyn Fiske ] Re: [AVALON] Ed Harcourt/Snug [Colleen Matan ] [AVALON] Phil's Name Change [ASchulberg@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change ["Ivor Canning" ] Re: [AVALON] Too cool to fool [AMeyersLD@aol.com] RE: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen [Jocelyn Fiske ] R: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change ["danilo" ] R: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen /2 HB ["danilo" ] [AVALON] Andy [David Firmin ] Re: R: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change [David Firmin ] RE: R: [AVALON] Sighing bridge [Michael Hill ] Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen [Kicki Gustafsson ] Re: [AVALON] Nature of BF's oeuvre (was: Trash/Seventeen) ["Ton Darly" ] RE: [AVALON] Nature of BF's oeuvre (was: Trash/Seventeen) [Michael Hill <] [AVALON] Jocelyn's garden makeover ["Andy (Hotmail)" ] RE: [AVALON] The money grabbers [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Off-topic warning ! Jocelyn Fiske IS Sweary Mary ! ["Ivor C] Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic ["Jane Collard" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:08:47 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: RE: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic >>> Jocelyn Fiske 02/06 5:48 pm >>> >Oh don't put ideas in Reecey head, pleeese! But I thought we were gaving a screening at AMA? Matinee performance anyone? SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:18:12 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen Forget all that, wasn't Jerry Hall 17 when they met? Is it him having a dig at her? SimonG >>> "Ton Darly" 02/06 9:22 pm >>> KBP wrote: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:29:55 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen But then I've always had a difficult time taking the sex out of BF lyrics. Hey - and no cheap shots or crass jokes about that, please - yeah, I know, perfect setup. But do resist. I'm quite serious when I say that Ferry lyrics have always impressed me as poly lateral and one of the laterals seems to be sex. Anyone? - -------------------------------------------- Interesting point, KBP, and I agree. As an example, what do you think of: "... but there always remains my obsession: Through silken waters my gondola glides and the bridge it sighs." Please, no cheap jokes by anyone, this is a serious question. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:02:07 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic To: The Head Of Light Entertainment, Controller of Programming BBC2 Dear BBC, Re: Home Alone In The Garden I thing it's a disgrace that such filth is being screened before the watershed and I shall be writing to my MP about it. Why does the BBC insist on wasting the license payer's money on such muck when there's perfectly good swearing to be had on Channel 5 ? Bill and Ben must be turning in their Flowerpots... Yours witheringly, A Concerned Parent. Oh wait, it's not been on yet, has it ? Damn, blast and b*ggeration all to Hades !! Never mind, it'll come in useful for 'Right To Reply'... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:14:15 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: RE: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic Simon wants to swear in the Cannes jury: > But I thought we were gaving a screening at AMA? Matinee performance anyone? I suspect we'll get a fairly authentic re-run of the soundtrack after a few sherbets... S;^) Regards, Ive Peckinpah n.p. Bob Mould 'The Last Dog and Pony Show' ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:25:56 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic Try Points Of View, then Terry Wogan can make some smug comments, an "actor" will read highlights of your letter down a telephone, then they'll show a highly embarrassing/entertaining clip with appropriate words censored. I can see it now.... SimonG Whatever happened to Barry Took....??? >>> "Ivor Canning" 02/07 6:02 pm >>> To: The Head Of Light Entertainment, Controller of Programming BBC2 Dear BBC, Re: Home Alone In The Garden Never mind, it'll come in useful for 'Right To Reply'... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:31:28 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen Hansard, February 7th 2001: The Rt Hon Member for Galloway South: > Forget all that, wasn't Jerry Hall 17 when they met? Is it him having a dig at her? I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave some moments ago... From The Face (April 1985): Q: Was 'Trash' on 'Manifesto' written about Jerry Hall ? BF: No. One line in various songs might refer to a particular person, but I've never written a song like that. Regards, The Dishonourable Member for Clubbing. BTW From the same interview, I just noticed this other comment (following on from a question about fans mimicking his style) which takes on a chilly ambience in the light of recent events. (If someone already mentioned this, I apologise in advance for the duplication). Q: If you hadn't already been Bryan Ferry, do you think you'd have been a Bryan Ferry clone ? BF: Doubtful. I'd have been more interested if Bryan Ferry had been killed in a plane crash. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:57:16 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen yeah yeah yeah harrumph ahem splutter grunt baaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! >>> "Ivor Canning" 02/07 6:31 pm >>> Hansard, February 7th 2001: The Rt Hon Member for Galloway South: > Forget all that, wasn't Jerry Hall 17 when they met? Is it him having a dig at her? I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave some moments ago... ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:24:09 -0000 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: RE: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic Alright my little stinging nettles, enough already!! I requested rhododendrons, roses round my door and potatoes by the score, but I got concrete loo seats (according to Ivor). I tried but I could not find a way: I did actually wear a baseball cap with Avalon written on the front for filming but was told by the non-commercial BBC to remove it, that's when the swearing started. Had The Sunday Telegraph round yesterday to do an interview about the whole experience. I am quoted as "Bo****ks!" Misrepresented yet again. Fek'yer Fiske ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:29:58 -0000 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: RE: RE: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic Actually Ivor, I shall be on my best behaviour. But, come to think of it, that's not very good either. Back to finishing school for me. - -----Original Message----- From: Ivor Canning [mailto:ivor.canning@cwcom.net] Sent: 07 February 2001 18:14 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: RE: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic Simon wants to swear in the Cannes jury: > But I thought we were gaving a screening at AMA? Matinee performance anyone? I suspect we'll get a fairly authentic re-run of the soundtrack after a few sherbets... S;^) Regards, Ive Peckinpah n.p. Bob Mould 'The Last Dog and Pony Show' ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:05:08 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Ed Harcourt/Snug Richard says 'No More Ukes !': > I gulped and thought: "I'm not THAT old, am I? It's a banjo" - OK, it may > have been a ukulele. At the risk of seeming a complete saddo (any more than usual), I suspect what you saw is more properly called a 'banjo ukulele' or 'ukulele banjo' (or sometimes 'banjolele'). A ukulele is actually a small four-stringed guitar of Hawaiian origin. The late great Peter Sellars was a great devotee and plays it on 'New York Girls', from Steeleye Span's excellent 'Commoner's Crown' album. If memory serves, he also played it during a television interview with Michael Parkinson. A 'banjolele', however, is the thing George Formby used to play and is not to be confused with a 'liddelele-hee', which is the ludicrous faux-yodelling noise Julie Andrews makes on 'The Sound Of Music' ('The Lonely Goatherd'). See, it's all connected !! Regards, Ivor. n.p. Mr McFall's Chamber 'Like The Milk' ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:25:15 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Ed Harcourt/Snug On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Ivor Canning wrote: > At the risk of seeming a complete saddo (any more than usual), I > suspect what you saw is more properly called a 'banjo ukulele' or > 'ukulele banjo' (or sometimes 'banjolele'). But, please, never a "ukunjo" in polite company. Colleen (who was at at the same show Richard was on Sunday night but, uh, in the bar during the support). ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:55:12 EST From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change From the BBC site: Phil Manzanera (b. Philip Targett Adams) When and why did Phil change his name? Arnie ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:19:53 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen Ton wrote: "As an example, what do you think of: "... but there always remains my obsession: Through silken waters my gondola glides and the bridge it sighs." Please, no cheap jokes by anyone, this is a serious question." Subliminal references to an overt obsession, I believe. It seems to me that Mr. Ferry is well aware of his obsessive sexual preoccupation - I am not too sure he has successfully delineated sex and love, hence his continued attempts to make sense of it all - obsess. Something unrequited, unresolved, he seems confused and lonely. Yes, Mr. Ferry's lyrics may be interpreted in a multitude of ways, all interpretations, of course are tainted by the interpreter's own state of mind. But the continued themes of slave to love, don't want to know, never know the meaning of your kiss, out in the cold, all the way is far enough, ten cents a dance, lost without you, say you'll be mine - all these themes are integrated and are prominent. "Through silken waters my gondola glides" sexual intercourse. "and the bridge it sighs" ho hum, what could this be? Boredom or routine, nothing too arousing - this physical sexual encounter? Isn't there more than this? I agree, Michael, BF is a wonderful lyricist. That is why I elevate his work to a level above others. Aren't we fortunate there is someone out there making such fine music that stimulates the listener's mind? Christian, you are the psych expert here, so I admit I have wondered if the homosexual/lesbian inferences are perhaps less about females loving females and more about females not loving males, i.e.. Nobody loves the personal BF. Simon, I couldn't imagine Mr. Ferry writing a whole piece about anyone. Not Jerry Hall - Trash. Not Ingrid Bergman - The Only Face. No, I think BF writes mostly about BF's interior landscape. The world, according to Bryan Ferry. Assigning a piece of work to be solely about one other person is to degrade the multi-dimensional nature of Mr. Ferry's gift to the world, his music. Best wishes, All. K.B.Porter ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:29:38 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change Arnie goes undercover: > Phil Manzanera (b. Philip Targett Adams) > > When and why did Phil change his name? It must have been when he received the court order for not keeping up with the payments on his first guitar (a red Hofner Galaxy, price #55) !! More likely, one assumes he felt that 'Targett-Adams' wasn't particularly cool for an aspiring rock guitarist, hence the adoption of his (Colombian) mother's maiden name. As for when .. well, oddly enough www.manzanera.com seem to have got it slightly wrong (shock, horror !). To quote from the story of Phil joining in 1972: "Targett-Adams accepts with alacrity. His first action is to adopt a stage name. " HOWEVER, the name 'Manzanera' was being used at least as early as 1970 (ref: the Quiet Sun rejection letters reproduced in the re-issued 'Mainstream'). So, the plot thickens ... Regards, Ivor. Who cannot believe he's admitted to this much anoraky behaviour... n.p. Horslips 'Book Of Invasions' ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:44:36 EST From: AMeyersLD@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Too cool to fool In a message dated 2/7/01 12:16:24 AM, tinkandjeans1st@home.com writes: << I saw Roxy twice in Chicago in 1975. February 23, at the Auditorium Theater on the Country Life tour and November 29, at the Riviera Theater on the Siren tour. >> I stand corrected. The second stop on the Siren tour was at the Uptown (which is, BTW, the "burned-out-theatre" in themovie "Backdraft"). For some reason I remembered the first Siren stop as being at Uptown. oops... Andrew In Chicago ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:19:49 -0000 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: RE: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen >Indeed, regarded in a psychoanalyst-orthodox way, an interpretation concerning sexual intercourse (huh?) is well possible. Dear Herr Freud, I'm in two minds about the lyrics to Grace Jones' Pull Up To My Bumper, baby in your long black limousine, pull up to my bumper baby, drive it in between. Please help. Confused. (sigh!) ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:26:17 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: R: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change I think it's just a nickname ...His mather's family name BTW... dan - -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: A: Data invio: mercoledl 7 febbraio 2001 14.55 Oggetto: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change > From the BBC site: > > Phil Manzanera (b. Philip Targett Adams) > > When and why did Phil change his name? > > Arnie > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:29:46 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: R: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen /2 HB Maybe 2 HB is about Humphrey Bogart? ( and a kind of drawing pencil of course ) :-))))))))))) dan > Simon, I couldn't imagine Mr. Ferry writing a whole piece about anyone. > Not Jerry Hall - Trash. Not Ingrid Bergman - The Only Face. No, I > think BF writes mostly about BF's interior landscape. The world, > according to Bryan Ferry. Assigning a piece of work to be solely about > one other person is to degrade the multi-dimensional nature of Mr. > Ferry's gift to the world, his music. > > Best wishes, All. K.B.Porter > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:20:13 -0800 From: David Firmin Subject: [AVALON] Andy I still think Andy's the best! http://home.ix.netcom.com/~dfirmin/mag.html Can't wait for the news conference! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:39:32 -0800 From: David Firmin Subject: Re: R: [AVALON] Phil's Name Change I tracked down his brother - Gene Targett-Adams. He wrote: Hi there, yes I'm his brother - are you a Manzanera fan? Gene - --- He and his wife let people stay in their home: Stay at the home of Andrea & Gene Targett-Adams, and you will be just ten houses away from the residence of Scotland's most famous writer Robert Louis Stevenson and just three streets away from Princes Street and the world famous Castle. Each of the rooms has been individually designed to interior designer standard and all have en-suite bathrooms with shower, hairdryers, tea and coffee making facilities, direct dial telephones and colour television. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:53:47 +0000 From: Michael Hill Subject: RE: R: [AVALON] Sighing bridge Sorry, but I prefer the sexual interpretation! I was just thinking about the word Sospiri, and thought I should add that Bryan cleverly sings this song in a "sospiranto" style, Italian musical terminology for "sighing." As you of course know Dan, being Italian! :) >===== Original Message From avalon@smoe.org ===== >Well If I can help U >LOL :-)))) > >literally in Venice >it's called >IL PONTE DEI SOSPIRI ( bridge of sighs ) >the bridge between the >PALAZZO DUCALE >e I PIOMBI > >between the tribunal >and the jail..... > >so the sighs were just coming out >from the prisoners mouths... > >( PRISONERS/SLAVES to love? ).... :-))))))))) > >sorry no freudian explanation.... > >but we all know...... >Bryan double senses..... > > >:-)))))))))) > > >dan > > >-----Messaggio Originale----- >Da: "C.H.Soetemann" >A: >Data invio: martedl 6 febbraio 2001 23.38 >Oggetto: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen > > >> Indeed, regarded in a psychoanalyst-orthodox way, an interpretation >> concerning sexual intercourse (huh?) is well possible. We have got >something >> that has got a HOLE (the bridge that sighs) (incidentally I have yet to >hear >> of sighing genitals, but let's not be trainspotter-ish) and a LONG object >> (the gondola). So you're right. The example could be discussed further. >> Incidentally, have any of you ever noticed the references to female >> homosexuality in Bryan's later videos. A first point of interpretation >could >> be that a relationship like that excludes him, Bryan, the male person - >they >> "don't want to know". >> In case somebody should get slightly annoyed reading this: hey calm down >you >> gondola you! Psychoanalysis seems very strange to many at first, but it is >a >> very complex matter that has to be carefully considered (and then you'll >> discover how much of it is true!). >> >> Christian >> >> ---------- >> >Von: "Ton Darly" >> >An: avalon@smoe.org >> >Betreff: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen >> >Datum: Die, 6. Feb 2001 22:22 Uhr >> > >> >> >KBP wrote: >> > >> >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:29:55 -0500 >> >From: KB Porter >> >Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen >> > >> > >> >But then I've always had a difficult time taking the sex out of BF >> >lyrics. Hey - and no cheap shots or crass jokes about that, please - >> >yeah, I know, perfect setup. But do resist. I'm quite serious when I >> >say that Ferry lyrics have always impressed me as poly lateral and one >> >of the laterals seems to be sex. Anyone? >> >-------------------------------------------- >> > >> >Interesting point, KBP, and I agree. >> >As an example, what do you think of: >> >"... but there always remains my obsession: >> >Through silken waters my gondola glides and the bridge it sighs." >> >Please, no cheap jokes by anyone, this is a serious question. >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >> > >> > >> >>___________________________________________________________________________ >> >The subliminable footer says: >> >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >> >unsubscribe avalon >> >> >> >___________________________________________________________________________ >> The subliminable footer says: >> To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >> unsubscribe avalon > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:54:51 +0100 From: Kicki Gustafsson Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen >Simon, I couldn't imagine Mr. Ferry writing a whole piece about anyone. >Not Jerry Hall - Trash. Not Ingrid Bergman - The Only Face. No, I >think BF writes mostly about BF's interior landscape. On the other hand, Ferry himself has said about The Only Face that he thought about Greta Garbo (not Ingrid Bergman) when he wrote the lyrics - she had recently died. So there. /kicki G - ----------- Kicki Gustafsson, webansvarig Vstersunds-Postens redaktion Tel: 063-161659 Mobil: 070-366 03 30 kicki.gustafsson@op.se http://www.op.se ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:17:50 +0100 From: "Ton Darly" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Nature of BF's oeuvre (was: Trash/Seventeen) Dear Christian and dear K.B.Porter, Thank you for your reply. This is very inspiring. Maybe I should have introduced myself properly, instead of just quoting some lyrics out of context, presenting myself as a dirty old man only focussing on sex. I'm not that old, but old enough to be a RM/BF fan since 1972. I personally prefer the 'old Roxy school' rather than the ATGB style, but I respect everybody's preferences. I'm especially interested in the lyrics. I've studied much of BF's oeuvre and I've translated several of the lyrics into my own language. (You may have noticed by now that I'm not native English; this makes studying the lyrics more difficult but it forces me to be more attentive and so I discover more!) Translating is an excellent way of getting a better understanding of a text. Especially, if the text contains poly-lateral elements. And here we touch the original question by KBP: the poly-lateral nature. Many of BF's lyrics have a complex structure. You need to read 'between the lines', discover the hidden layers. Some knowledge of psycho-analysis may be helpful. (By the way, Christian, ever studied IN YOUR MIND? I'm sure, BF must be familiar with the shrink's couch!). A common element in many lyrics is a sincere astonishment about the beauty of life, in the best tradition of the old philosophers. In this context, one of the ingredients is love in all its appearances, but never in a blunt or vulgar way. For me, one of the most beautiful examples is LOVE ME MADLY AGAIN: initially, the main person is in search of instant sex, but then he changes his mind and he transforms his desires to a much higher level: from physical to spiritual, and even from temporarily to eternally. (And this whole scene supported by a perfect sound track.) This is not cheap, this is pure, this is impressive, this is emotional, this is beauty, this is *art*. The poly-lateral nature of the lyrics gives room to multiple interpretations, as mentioned in KBP's reply. I have mine, others may have theirs, just as valid as mine and with all my respect, of course. It's like different religions based on the same book. (I do not want to offend anybody's religious feelings; please don't start a thread about religion; this is a *RM/BF* platform!) It's possible to build a coherent 'RM/BF universe', containing a view on the lyrics, BF's ambiguous relation to women, the album covers, the perfectness, and more. Oh, I could talk talk talk myself to death... (sorry for this long post) Ton _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:28:05 -0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: [AVALON] Manzo who? Last year, I lived in Addlestone, Surrey close to Manzanera's Gallery studio's, the birthplace of Jealous Guy, and much of F&B. An acquaintance at that time told me she had been friendly with Phil's daughter, and had been to tea at their house, which would have been in the late eighties. She knew him only as Mr Targett-Adams. She looked blank when I said the name Manzanera. BTW Jocelyn, good luck tonight on TV. Break a leg. Hope they had time to move those bloody concrete blocks and cut down all that foliage before the filming... ;0) Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:04:41 +0000 From: Michael Hill Subject: RE: [AVALON] Nature of BF's oeuvre (was: Trash/Seventeen) If English is not your native language, then you must speak your mother tongue perfectly, because you appear fluent in English, to say the least! >===== Original Message From avalon@smoe.org ===== >Dear Christian and dear K.B.Porter, > >Thank you for your reply. This is very inspiring. > >Maybe I should have introduced myself properly, instead of just quoting some >lyrics out of context, presenting myself as a dirty old man only focussing >on sex. >I'm not that old, but old enough to be a RM/BF fan since 1972. I personally >prefer the 'old Roxy school' rather than the ATGB style, but I respect >everybody's preferences. >I'm especially interested in the lyrics. I've studied much of BF's oeuvre >and I've translated several of the lyrics into my own language. (You may >have noticed by now that I'm not native English; this makes studying the >lyrics more difficult but it forces me to be more attentive and so I >discover more!) >Translating is an excellent way of getting a better understanding of a text. >Especially, if the text contains poly-lateral elements. >And here we touch the original question by KBP: the poly-lateral nature. >Many of BF's lyrics have a complex structure. You need to read 'between the >lines', discover the hidden layers. Some knowledge of psycho-analysis may be >helpful. (By the way, Christian, ever studied IN YOUR MIND? I'm sure, BF >must be familiar with the shrink's couch!). >A common element in many lyrics is a sincere astonishment about the beauty >of life, in the best tradition of the old philosophers. In this context, one >of the ingredients is love in all its appearances, but never in a blunt or >vulgar way. For me, one of the most beautiful examples is LOVE ME MADLY >AGAIN: initially, the main person is in search of instant sex, but then he >changes his mind and he transforms his desires to a much higher level: from >physical to spiritual, and even from temporarily to eternally. (And this >whole scene supported by a perfect sound track.) This is not cheap, this is >pure, this is impressive, this is emotional, this is beauty, this is *art*. > >The poly-lateral nature of the lyrics gives room to multiple >interpretations, as mentioned in KBP's reply. I have mine, others may have >theirs, just as valid as mine and with all my respect, of course. It's like >different religions based on the same book. (I do not want to offend >anybody's religious feelings; please don't start a thread about religion; >this is a *RM/BF* platform!) >It's possible to build a coherent 'RM/BF universe', containing a view on the >lyrics, BF's ambiguous relation to women, the album covers, the perfectness, >and more. > >Oh, I could talk talk talk myself to death... (sorry for this long post) > >Ton > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >The subliminable footer says: >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:22:35 -0000 From: "Andy (Hotmail)" Subject: [AVALON] Jocelyn's garden makeover How come you didn't get any Ferry pics or t-shirts or mentions in to any of the whole half-hour? Yours... Disappointed Ferry Fan P.S. Hard but smooth, eh? - is that just the concrete ? ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:23:52 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: R: R: [AVALON] Sighing bridge and silken Waters I bet U prefere the " other" way Micky!!! me too :-))))) sospiranteDan LOL LOL LOL - -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: "Michael Hill" A: Data invio: mercoledl 7 febbraio 2001 19.53 Oggetto: RE: R: [AVALON] Sighing bridge > Sorry, but I prefer the sexual interpretation! I was just thinking about the > word Sospiri, and thought I should add that Bryan cleverly sings this song in > a "sospiranto" style, Italian musical terminology for "sighing." As you of > course know Dan, being Italian! :) ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:29:27 +0100 From: "danilo" Subject: R: [AVALON] Nature of BF's oeuvre (Song for europe?) . > I'm especially interested in the lyrics. I've studied much of BF's oeuvre > and I've translated several of the lyrics into my own language. (You may > have noticed by now that I'm not native English; this makes studying the > lyrics more difficult but it forces me to be more attentive and so I > discover more!) I'm just guessing about Ur native language!! which one? ciao :-)))))) dan ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:55:09 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Sunday Morning On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Bahi Para wrote: > Meeting people with whom you've been corresponding for years is always > a little scary but there's an immense feeling of relief when it works > out as well as it did yesterday. (Familiar, I guess to those who met > up at gigs last year but this is only my second Avalon-linked > meeting.) Thanks to all those who were - Colleen, Ivor, Neill, Jane, > Johnny and Richard - for a very enjoyable evening. (And thanks to Ivor I'm still digging through my inbox, hence the haphazard replies, but I wanted to second these thoughts. Thanks to everyone who came and for making me feel so welcome--and to think I was feeling so shy I almost didn't post that I was coming to town. The evening went by much too quickly, and I look forward to doing it again later this year (June? July?) > twinkle in her eye and an all-too-rare sense of humour and irony. I > hope I haven't done too much damage already. Since Bahi you're obviously talking about Jane (I'm the sad and bitter one, remember?), I don't think you have. Colleen P.S. Richard asked: > n/p: Finn - Kiwi Charms (Long story, eh Colleen? - Wasn't last night > the best?) If not the best (the show we saw Sunday night that is), certainly close to it. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:59:55 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: RE: [AVALON] The money grabbers On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Guy Lawley wrote: > I agree on the DVD though. "Extra's" are one reason why the huge cost > mark-up of a DVD is worth paying; a couple of promo vids and an > interview wouldn't have been that difficult to add on, would they? This is a common complaint and one of the underlying reasons so many times these things aren't included is that if the company issuing the DVD doesn't have the rights to the other materials the cost becomes even more prohibitive. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:01:41 -0800 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Off-topic warning ! Jocelyn Fiske IS Sweary Mary ! Well, I tried to phone the BBC just now, but it took absolutely AGES to get through and when I did a very harrassed, flustered sounding woman snapped 'Yes ?'. I said I was ringing about 'Home Front In The Garden'. 'Oh, bloody 'ell,' she said, 'not *another* one !' I tried to explain that I wasn't ringing to complain about the language, but I don't think she believed me ... For anyone who missed it, this was the story of how the Irish mafia closed off most of Southern England in order to hoist 17 tons of reinforced concrete slab into an unsuspecting Avalonian's garden. There was a complicated sub-plot involving a dodgy second-hand concrete salesman from Connemara, operating under an assumed name - Dermot McDermot (honestly, who thinks these things up ?) whose face we don't get to see. I wasn't sure what the stunt double for Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart was doing with the secret plans near the beginning but I suspect he got bumped off and disposed of in the section of motorway flyover they seemed to be building at the end. So anyway, they try to cover up the murder by planting shrubs around the central tunnel support but a section of the flyover gets flooded and a little dog gets really upset and then the head Irishman goes to Rome and watches the FA Cup Final and some bloke called Colin tries to keep out of the way and just when you're completely confused it's all over. Based on a true story supposedly (yeah, right !!). Regards, Ivor. S8^) ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:11:03 -0000 From: "Jane Collard" Subject: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic I'm afraid I'm with Mr Canning on this one. I counted at least four "bloody hells" in a very short space of time :-)! Seriously, Jocelyn - congratulations (is that the right sentiment?)!! You're a star. Who'd have thought it? Kicki in the Sunday Times, Jocelyn on BBC TV... whatever next? Best wishes Jane - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ivor Canning To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] UK Avalonians only -off topic > > I thing it's a disgrace that such filth is being screened before the > watershed and I shall be writing to my MP about it. Why does the BBC insist > on wasting the license payer's money on such muck when there's perfectly > good swearing to be had on Channel 5 ? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:01:49 -0600 From: "Will Frechette" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen Ah the bridge of sighs reference and Trower goes on to produce Will - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ton Darly" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen > KBP wrote: > > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:29:55 -0500 > From: KB Porter > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trash/Seventeen > > > But then I've always had a difficult time taking the sex out of BF > lyrics. Hey - and no cheap shots or crass jokes about that, please - > yeah, I know, perfect setup. But do resist. I'm quite serious when I > say that Ferry lyrics have always impressed me as poly lateral and one > of the laterals seems to be sex. Anyone? > -------------------------------------------- > > Interesting point, KBP, and I agree. > As an example, what do you think of: > "... but there always remains my obsession: > Through silken waters my gondola glides and the bridge it sighs." > Please, no cheap jokes by anyone, this is a serious question. > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V6 #43 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest