From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #420 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, December 1 2000 Volume 05 : Number 420 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Miss World ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) [Ad] Re: [AVALON] Miss World [Alister Hamilton ] Re: [AVALON] Miss World ["C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" ] RE: [AVALON] Miss World [S.J.Batie@open.ac.uk] Re: [AVALON] Miss World ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] Miss World [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] In the wilderness again [KB Porter ] RE: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) ["Ch] Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) ["Se] Re: [AVALON] (AVALON) Perfumed Sigh Video ["ncjones.lewis2" ] RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster ["Chris Turner" ] RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster [Colleen Matan ] RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster ["Chris Turner" ] RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) ["nc] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:21:29 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: [AVALON] Miss World Now that was the most truly appalling thing I have ever seen. Really, really bad. I was expecting crap, but boy, it exceeded those expectations. As for Bryan's "little bit" - why mime to a 1976 recording? He looked tired, uncomfortable and totally disinterested whilst all the Miss World contestants made their stage entrances and swamped the man. Utterly pointless. All I can say is that the money must have been good. And having the band on there was just as pointless, spread out on a massive stage, looking like spare parts. Anyway congratulations to Miss India - the new Miss World. Well done, I'm sure it'll do her good. SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 01:53:47 -0800 (PST) From: Adrew Howard Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) > Is it cool (no) > Is it kitsch (no) > Is it witty (no) > Is it glamourous (no) > Target audience (saddos) > > Who is recommending this tawdry showcase ? > It's a bit of free promotion and LST is more likely to attract new fans than any other song. Remember there were 600 million watching this globally. I think it's great to see that Ferry is finally giving himself a chance in the marketing stakes. Keeping Up Appearances is important in his business. Ferry himself looked a bit stiff, and uncomfortable but then he never appears to be having much fun when the cameras are rolling. A pity really. Btw, the band line up may give us a clue as to whom he is working with on the new album. Regards, Drew _______________________________________________________ Tired of slow Internet? Get @Home Broadband Internet http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:55:24 GMT From: Alister Hamilton Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World Yes, the Miss World show was truly appalling. It made the Eurovision Song Contest seem fantastic by comparison. To make things worse, I tuned in 10 mins after the start of the show and spent two hours twenty five minutes wondering when BF would appear!! Aahh!!! Alister. ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 10:58:03 +0100 From: "C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World >As for Bryan's "little bit" - why mime to a 1976 recording? He looked >tired, uncomfortable and totally disinterested whilst all the Miss World >contestants made their stage entrances and swamped the man. Utterly >pointless. All I can say is that the money must have been good. And having >the band on there was just as pointless, spread out on a massive stage, >looking like spare parts. I haven't seen the show and probably there was no reason to do so. I have read before somewhere that Bryan was only 7th choice or so. Before, they had asked people like Ricky Martin, Madonna, Jennifer Lopez, Madonna etc. to appear. I suppose he did it for the cash, and I think it's OK considering that it might help finance some of his future projects. But I regret that it must have been such a depressing setting. I hope he can cheer up when receiving the lifetime award in Saarbr|cken (of all places...). A (probably) related association: In late 1995, he sang LST (live) in the first episode of the "Harald Schmidt Show", a German late night show similar to the Letterman and Leno type. He looked tired back then (having just completed the NOTP tour), but I think it was done for the same reasons. I have a video of this somewhere. In case you haven't got it, it could be included on some future video tree or so, if you like. If you don't like, let's fall into silence and keep a straight face... Christian ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:23:16 -0000 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World >Surprised to see Bry right at the start - miming to Let's Stick Together. Well that answer's it all. I missed the first 10 minutes and sat through a good hour or so of it until I dropped off through boredom (bedum, bedum)and assumed I'd snored through our man's turn, which by the sounds of it, he did. I suspect that when Bry mentioned that he'd like to perform on Miss World he didn't have singing in mind. And Stockman you little minx, I know you sat there with a short list and will search desperately for contact numbers for Miss Iceland and Miss Italy. Miss Sutton Coalfield ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:35:20 -0000 From: S.J.Batie@open.ac.uk Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World and i had you down as miss north tyneside jocelyn ..... s > -----Original Message----- > From: Jocelyn Fiske [SMTP:Jocelyn.Fiske@greyeu.com] > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:23 AM > To: 'avalon@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World > > >Surprised to see Bry right at the start - miming to Let's Stick Together. > > > > Well that answer's it all. I missed the first 10 minutes and sat through a > good hour or so of it until I dropped off through boredom (bedum, > bedum)and > assumed I'd snored through our man's turn, which by the sounds of it, he > did. > > I suspect that when Bry mentioned that he'd like to perform on Miss World > he > didn't have singing in mind. > > And Stockman you little minx, I know you sat there with a short list and > will search desperately for contact numbers for Miss Iceland and Miss > Italy. > > > > Miss Sutton Coalfield > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > _ > > The subliminable footer says: > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > _ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 10:42:58 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World >>> "Johnny Reece" 11/30 8:19 pm >>> >Surprised to see Bry right at the start - miming to Let's Stick Together, Also surprised to see absolutely NO press coverage in the UK tabloids today. Some sort of boycott? They used to be crawling over that kind of stuff, but Noel Gallagher's ex-wife and the "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" millionaire seem to be far more newsworthy (?) SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 06:40:38 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World Tsk, tsk, tsk. What's all this?: > Management. He needs management. > > Checklist : > > Is it cool (no) > Is it kitsch (no) > Is it witty (no) > Is it glamourous (no) > Target audience (saddos) > > Who is recommending this tawdry showcase ? > > Answers please. and > Now that was the most truly appalling thing I have ever seen. Really, > really bad. I was expecting crap, but boy, it exceeded those > expectations. What have we here? Isn't this the same mailing list chock-a-block with people full of plans for Mr. Ferry's upcoming #1 hit? How do you think the groundwork is laid for things like that? Wishes and fantasies? Just think of Miss World as the shopping mall writ large. And isn't this the same mailing list where ne'er is allowed a discouraging word about Mr. Ferry? Where Our Hero Can Do No Wrong? Certainly if Mr. Ferry agreed to it, it must be worthy since he's the epitome of everything, no? With respect to what Mr. Ferry "needs," the fault does not lie with the person or persons who "recommended" this gig to him. Let's assign blame to the correct party. He has attained the age of majority and is fully capable of saying "no." Money makes the world go around, after all. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 07:51:11 -0500 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] In the wilderness again < Management. He needs management. > Bingo, Martin! ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:54:09 -0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) To all those sensitive souls so upset by Ferry's appearance in the real world... On Radio Two he reaches an audience of 200,000 On Jools Holland he reaches an audience of 2 million On Miss World he reaches an audience of 2 billion You do the maths. Or would you rather see a short but worthy critical analysis of his work on Radio Norwich's mid-morning show... How utterly predictable it is that a forum that recently criticised Ferry's lack of profile immediately rounds on him when he appears on a programme with a massive global reach. Ferry doesn't live in a bubble, producing his art solely for pseuds like us. He makes his living from selling records and tickets. Ferry has obviously learned from the Horoscope and other debacles that artistic credibility doesn't pay the school fees. He has reanimated and maintained a public profile in recent years without nearing the kind of chart success people here seem to value so highly. A good album, a superb tour, which for me reiterated how much he still has to offer as a performer, NetAid, The Nobel appearance, the Millenium concert, The Dylan thing, The Sun tribute and now this. High profile appearances. How many of Ferry's 1970's contemporaries still have this kind of pulling power? Give Ferry and his management some credit for getting off their arses and doing this.(I'll be accused of being an apologist for daring to say this). Appearing on this show is surely a pragmatic approach, not a sell out. Could it be that maintaning this profile is important for his future projects? Part of a wider plan for launching a new album or the rumoured Roxy reunion? Less than rumoured from what I hear. And anyway could anyone really blame him for cashing in on the cachet his name carries. After all if he had really wanted to exploit his public persona he could have grown very rich upon it indeed. Personally I would rather see him on prime-time TV than simply as a dusty relic of a bygone age, or as a cotton-wool-wrapped aesthete on some worthy arts documentary. It's time YOU decided what YOU want from him. Chris - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Martin Stockman Sent: 01 December 2000 08:31 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) - ---------- >From: Colleen Matan > Remember that band he used to have? Roxy something? Oh yeah--Roxy Music. > It's called "camp." > > That or he needs the money. Management. He needs management. Checklist : Is it cool (no) Is it kitsch (no) Is it witty (no) Is it glamourous (no) Target audience (saddos) Who is recommending this tawdry showcase ? Answers please. M ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:18:14 +0100 From: "Sebastian Fasthuber" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) bravo, chris! i totally agree with you. concerning what is to come: instead of doing 'just another "mamouna"-self-analysis sort of thing' (sorry about this reduction - and yes, i really love this album), i would rather see him attempt storming the charts, even if it turns out to be a collossal - commercial and artistic - flop. my two pence, sebastian - ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Turner To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 2:54 PM Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) > To all those sensitive souls so upset by Ferry's appearance in the real > world... > > On Radio Two he reaches an audience of 200,000 > On Jools Holland he reaches an audience of 2 million > On Miss World he reaches an audience of 2 billion > > You do the maths. Or would you rather see a short but worthy critical > analysis of his work on Radio Norwich's mid-morning show... > > How utterly predictable it is that a forum that recently criticised Ferry's > lack of profile immediately rounds on him when he appears on a programme > with a massive global reach. > > Ferry doesn't live in a bubble, producing his art solely for pseuds like us. > He makes his living from selling records and tickets. Ferry has obviously > learned from the Horoscope and other debacles that artistic credibility > doesn't pay the school fees. He has reanimated and maintained a public > profile in recent years without nearing the kind of chart success people > here seem to value so highly. A good album, a superb tour, which for me > reiterated how much he still has to offer as a performer, NetAid, The Nobel > appearance, the Millenium concert, The Dylan thing, The Sun tribute and now > this. High profile appearances. How many of Ferry's 1970's contemporaries > still have this kind of pulling power? Give Ferry and his management some > credit for getting off their arses and doing this.(I'll be accused of being > an apologist for daring to say this). Appearing on this show is surely a > pragmatic approach, not a sell out. Could it be that maintaning this profile > is important for his future projects? Part of a wider plan for launching a > new album or the rumoured Roxy reunion? Less than rumoured from what I hear. > And anyway could anyone really blame him for cashing in on the cachet his > name carries. After all if he had really wanted to exploit his public > persona he could have grown very rich upon it indeed. > > Personally I would rather see him on prime-time TV than simply as a dusty > relic of a bygone age, or as a cotton-wool-wrapped aesthete on some worthy > arts documentary. It's time YOU decided what YOU want from him. > > Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:45:29 -0000 From: "ncjones.lewis2" Subject: Re: [AVALON] (AVALON) Perfumed Sigh Video Me Too - Me Too! Thanks, Neil ncjones.lewis2@ntlworld.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Kaufman To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:55 AM Subject: [AVALON] (AVALON) Perfumed Sigh Video > Please add my name to the I-Want-It list for this video. > > Regards, > > Judy > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:17:05 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: [AVALON] the world is your oyster On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Chris Turner wrote: [...] > from what I hear. And anyway could anyone really blame him for cashing > in on the cachet his name carries. After all if he had really wanted > to exploit his public persona he could have grown very rich upon it > indeed. Why should Mr. Ferry stop at Miss World? Why not the entire world? After all, selling out is like being pregnant--it's not a matter of degrees. So since he's in this deep, he might as well go whole hog. He's getting on in years so why shouldn't he lend his cachet to Depends? Or denture glue? Or Viagara (hey, it made Bob Dole a bundle over here, and he's still on every Sunday morning talk show yapping about politics)? I mean, it's not like dignity carries such a high premium in the Ferry camp these days (after all, there are all those prizes being dangled in front of him like the promise of a "big hit" and the ever-rumored reunion), so clearly he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain. What does it matter if 89.3289% of the world has no idea who he is? Here in the U.S. we had no idea of who Rula Lenska was, but hey, we all know her name. Or maybe he could go on tour and open for Britney Spears--I saw her on TeeVee last night and she does a pretty good job of lip-synching herself. > arts documentary. It's time YOU decided what YOU want from him. I've decided. I want him to stop letting others pimp him. But it's too late for that, so he might as well tart himself up as best he can. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:26:15 -0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster Yeah, I bet when he stood in front of 2 billion people on live TV last night, surrounded by beautiful women and fingering the fat cheque he trousered for three minutes work he must have wondered where it had all gone wrong.... It's a nice re-interpretation of what I wrote, but no cigar Colleen. You have laboured a non-existant point. I said he could have exploited his cachet, not that he had. You obviously feel it's so much more credible for Ferry to wallow in the nobility of poverty rather than to promote himself doing the thing he does for a living. I saw him on stage singing a song - not dropping his trousers or taking a pie in the face. He is appearing on TV, not selling 'eau de Ferry' The miming was disappointing, but I suspect more to do with the pragmatics of live TV and the accoustics of The Dome. Is it Miss World you despise (I could readily accept and associate with that) or promotional work generally? Ferry reached more viewers last night in a single appearance than his entire year-long tour. That show was an opportunity to reach an wider and more diverse audience than usual - new listeners even. What's so undignified about that? How are new (and existing) fans to become familiar with his live work? There are very few opportunities for artists of Ferry's type on UK TV. Do you want him to continue a a working artist or be consigned to a glass case? I'm sure I could be accused of seeing only good in Ferry (although people who know me might argue differently), I'm equally sure that your views are the opposite end of that equation. Chris - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Colleen Matan Sent: 01 December 2000 15:17 To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] the world is your oyster On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Chris Turner wrote: [...] > from what I hear. And anyway could anyone really blame him for cashing > in on the cachet his name carries. After all if he had really wanted > to exploit his public persona he could have grown very rich upon it > indeed. Why should Mr. Ferry stop at Miss World? Why not the entire world? After all, selling out is like being pregnant--it's not a matter of degrees. So since he's in this deep, he might as well go whole hog. He's getting on in years so why shouldn't he lend his cachet to Depends? Or denture glue? Or Viagara (hey, it made Bob Dole a bundle over here, and he's still on every Sunday morning talk show yapping about politics)? I mean, it's not like dignity carries such a high premium in the Ferry camp these days (after all, there are all those prizes being dangled in front of him like the promise of a "big hit" and the ever-rumored reunion), so clearly he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain. What does it matter if 89.3289% of the world has no idea who he is? Here in the U.S. we had no idea of who Rula Lenska was, but hey, we all know her name. Or maybe he could go on tour and open for Britney Spears--I saw her on TeeVee last night and she does a pretty good job of lip-synching herself. > arts documentary. It's time YOU decided what YOU want from him. I've decided. I want him to stop letting others pimp him. But it's too late for that, so he might as well tart himself up as best he can. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:54:15 -0000 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: [AVALON] RE: Selling Out What's all the fuss about? I seem to recall our Bry appearing on prime time Cilla Black and Twiggy shows in his heyday when surely his so-called reputation was being nurtured and protected. These two Saturday slot TV programmes were, however, prime time TV with the largest weekly viewing figures (short of Coronation Street). It's just about getting your mug (ugly or otherwise) in front of as many people as possible in one hit. And if you thought the Miss World performance was tacky or embarrassing wait until you're reminded of the terribly mimed duet of Bryan and Cilla singing It's My Party. He can't even remember the words of most of it, and he was evidently squirming. This clip will be coming to a video near you soon when A Rhapsody Divine is finished and released to the list. Now if only someone would convince him of the power of the Internet (that's a job opportunity right there), he could take a leaf out of our Madge's book and hit a 9 million audience with a single 23 minute performance, that's assuming of course 9 million people would like to log on to see him. Jocelyn ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Chris Turner wrote: > It's a nice re-interpretation of what I wrote, but no cigar Colleen. > You have laboured a non-existant point. I said he could have exploited > his cachet, not that he had. You obviously feel it's so much more > credible for Ferry to wallow in the nobility of poverty rather than to > promote himself doing the thing he does for a living. I saw him on Is that how I feel? I can't remember saying such a thing. Nor did I "re-interpret" what you wrote. Instead I offered my own opinion. (And, by the way, it was irony; my apologies for not marking it clearly as such.) > Is it Miss World you despise (I could readily accept and associate > with that) or promotional work generally? Ferry reached more viewers > last night in a single appearance than his entire year-long tour. That > show was an opportunity to reach an wider and more diverse audience > than usual - new listeners even. What's so undignified about that? How > are new (and existing) fans to become familiar with his live work? > There are very few opportunities for artists of Ferry's type on UK TV. > Do you want him to continue a a working artist or be consigned to a > glass case? I've already stated what I want: > I've decided. I want him to stop letting others pimp him. But it's > too late for that, so he might as well tart himself up as best he can. The pimping isn't just found in the actual tricks, erm, actions. Miss World, the seemingly endless reissues of old stuff, Mr. Price telling tales out of school merely for shock value and to get people talking about Mr. Ferry--they're all the same in the end. But the pimping is also found in the selling of this ersatz dream--a chance to ride to the top of the charts again, to regain the faded glory, fame and acclaim--"I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille"--at the risk of his reputation and credibility. And yes, his dignity. Of course I don't want Mr. Ferry and his family to end up in a single room bedsit in some horribly unfashionable neighborhood. Indeed, how could any of us sleep comfortably at night were that to transpire? But to speak of "poverty" with respect to him is disingenuous. He's not starving. He's not poor. He has far more than any of us here and he will continue to have it even if he never puts out another record. So why cry crocodile tears? > I'm sure I could be accused of seeing only good in Ferry (although > people who know me might argue differently), I'm equally sure that > your views are the opposite end of that equation. I see neither good nor bad in Mr. Ferry. I do not know him so I am unable to make that judgment call. The topic was opened to discussion: what do we want from Mr. Ferry? Within that context certainly I'm entitled to my own opinions and preferences. I have no need to try and see the silver lining in anything and/or everything Mr. Ferry does--I have no vested interest in ingratiating myself in with Mr. Lawn or Mr. Ferry's management or Mr. Ferry himself in the hopes of a few crumbs of borrowed glory at the expense of my real feelings. I've never gone backstage uninvited or used a credit card to jimmy open a locked stage door or pushed my way in front of people who had arrived at a show long before I had so that Mr. Ferry could see me up front. My opinions are not colored by what I might hope to gain from Mr. Ferry or his entourage--they are how I feel as a long time fan. He doesn't have to act in accordance with them and I will continue to buy his records and go to see him in concert. I do feel pity for Mr. Ferry with respect to this issue--there's something inescapably sad about the grasping for this faded dream. But if he's going to go down that path, he might as well go all the way. You mileage, of course, may vary. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:06:02 -0000 From: "Chris Turner" Subject: RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster Why is it an ineviatable downward spiral? Is it really inconceivable that Ferry could simply be in another phase of his career? Does his previous record have no bearing on his future potential? I've just watched Ferry give his best live performances for 17 years. Are his motivations really only monetary? Not pride in his work or a striving for excellence? Not the approval and respect of his family, friends, peers or an audience? Should he (or anyone else for that matter) simply give up in case his efforts don't match his past glories? I don't live my life that way, do you? Better call Tony Bennett and tell him not to bother any more. Time's up old feller. Should Ferry consign the past to the rubbish bin, as if embarrassed by it? I heard the old songs get the biggest responses at the gigs I attended. I'm sure that Ferry would rather never sing LST et al again. He does so because others want to hear it, and because he is forever associated with it. It's a shared experience with the audience. My use of the term poverty was a relative one, although I don't have your insight into his financial affairs. My apologies for not marking it clearly as such. The following part of your post is where you have wavered from the discussion into an implied criticism of me or others here. That implicit message is deeply unworthy of you. Nasty and bitter. How sad and jaundiced you truly must be. Or were you doing that irony thing again? ...I have no vested interest in ingratiating myself in with Mr. Lawn or Mr. Ferry's management or Mr. Ferry himself in the hopes of a few crumbs of borrowed glory at the expense of my real feelings. I've never gone backstage uninvited or used a credit card to jimmy open a locked stage door or pushed my way in front of people who had arrived at a show long before I had so that Mr. Ferry could see me up front. My opinions are not colored by what I might hope to gain from Mr. Ferry or his entourage... Chris ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:05:45 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World I wrote: > Now that was the most truly appalling thing I have ever seen. Really, > really bad. I was expecting crap, but boy, it exceeded those > expectations. Colleen wrote: >And isn't this the same mailing list where ne'er is allowed a discouraging >word about Mr. Ferry? Where Our Hero Can Do No Wrong? I was actually referring to the show as a whole, rather than Bryan's bit, which is why I went on to comment about that bit in particular after. >With respect to what Mr. Ferry "needs," the fault does not lie with the >person or persons who "recommended" this gig to him. Let's assign blame >to the correct party. He has attained the age of majority and is fully >capable of saying "no." Money makes the world go around, after all. So true. At least he could have made some effort at performing though. SimonG ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: RE: [AVALON] the world is your oyster On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Chris Turner wrote: > Are his motivations really only monetary? Not pride in his work or a > striving for excellence? Not the approval and respect of his family, > friends, peers or an audience? Should he (or anyone else for that > matter) simply give up in case his efforts don't match his past > glories? I don't live my life that way, do you? Better call Tony > Bennett and tell him not to bother any more. Time's up old feller. I don't know what his motivations are. All I can comment on is how his actions appear to me. I hope I am wrong, but I can't help feeling sad as I watch the effort expended towards what may be heartbreak. Perversely, on the other hand, I can't help cheering him on as he gallantly tries nonetheless. With respect to giving up as we grow older--no, of course I don't live my life that way. But don't we reassess these goals and cut ourselves some slack (and those around us) as we grow older as well? > Should Ferry consign the past to the rubbish bin, as if embarrassed by > it? I heard the old songs get the biggest responses at the gigs I > attended. I'm sure that Ferry would rather never sing LST et al again. > He does so because others want to hear it, and because he is forever > associated with it. It's a shared experience with the audience. I never suggested this. > The following part of your post is where you have wavered from the > discussion into an implied criticism of me or others here. That > implicit message is deeply unworthy of you. Nasty and bitter. How sad > and jaundiced you truly must be. Or were you doing that irony thing > again? Alas, that name-calling thing of yours again. The weird thing is that you're always so dead on about what I'm truly like that it's, well, it's eeeeeeeeeerie. I stand by what I said. As for it being criticism of others here, implicit or explicit, as I remember all of those activities were reported to this list with pride and not shame. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:59:50 -0000 From: "ncjones.lewis2" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) Fair comment, and while I initially cringed when I heard the opening of LST (as I normally do when he re-returns to this song) I quickly realised that that was what this type of appearance needed - play one of your up beat hits, showcase the gals (which actually quite seemed to work), wave when the audience clap and naff off - short and sweet! It may not have have much artistic merit, but it got his face on the box, people said "oh yeah.....remember him....didn't realise he was still doing the rounds?" and will generate at least some, much needed, further interest from people which I believe is very much on the agenda in the Ferry camp at he moment, honestly, quite when can you remember such media exposure of BF in the last 10 years...Jools Holland, millennium night concert, trusted associates suddenly openly commenting on someone who famously cherishes his personal life in the papers, various other articles appearing in the press and an official Web Site. The article Independent article (August 2000) reproduced in the Avalon site claims that Virgin UK had no contract with Bryan following the presentation of his, then, new work. My view was that the Virgin businessmen (because that's what they are) wanted a commercial hit (as wonderful as Bete Noir / Mamounna eventually become, they were are not the return on their new investment that Virgin wanted,) so they tell Mr Ferry that, as respected and talented as you are, if you want to continue releasing new work through us then you will at least promote it to the full, along with the whole package that is Bryan Ferry. Bingo! New album expected to be released next year, possibly with a new direction/feel (live band), and one or two potentially sellable 'mainstream-ish' singles from it. Speaking from personal experience, when the Street Life Greatest Hits package was released in the mid 80's I had no idea who this Bryan Ferry was. After a BBC2 Hour long interview with him which showcased a lot of his videos I saw More Than This, Avalon, Slave to Love and thought - 'Oh, that's who sang these'......suddenly I was watching Lets Stick Together, Love Is The Drug and thought - 'bloody hell, he did these as well!!!'- needless to say I was soon buying his back catalogue as well as his new releases. In short, a simple 'commercial' and therefore arguably 'sell out' gimmick such as a greatest hits album, along with a 'flog my wares on TV' interview turned a teenage boy into a Bryan Ferry fan when it was much more hip to like Wham! Music stars, be they light-weight or artists, need to sell their music otherwise there's no point in releasing what you have created. In order to do that you need to promote. This is what he did last night. So did SClub7 because they are in the same industry. I think it was - ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Turner To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 1:54 PM Subject: RE: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness again.) > To all those sensitive souls so upset by Ferry's appearance in the real > world... > > On Radio Two he reaches an audience of 200,000 > On Jools Holland he reaches an audience of 2 million > On Miss World he reaches an audience of 2 billion > > You do the maths. Or would you rather see a short but worthy critical > analysis of his work on Radio Norwich's mid-morning show... > > How utterly predictable it is that a forum that recently criticised Ferry's > lack of profile immediately rounds on him when he appears on a programme > with a massive global reach. > > Ferry doesn't live in a bubble, producing his art solely for pseuds like us. > He makes his living from selling records and tickets. Ferry has obviously > learned from the Horoscope and other debacles that artistic credibility > doesn't pay the school fees. He has reanimated and maintained a public > profile in recent years without nearing the kind of chart success people > here seem to value so highly. A good album, a superb tour, which for me > reiterated how much he still has to offer as a performer, NetAid, The Nobel > appearance, the Millenium concert, The Dylan thing, The Sun tribute and now > this. High profile appearances. How many of Ferry's 1970's contemporaries > still have this kind of pulling power? Give Ferry and his management some > credit for getting off their arses and doing this.(I'll be accused of being > an apologist for daring to say this). Appearing on this show is surely a > pragmatic approach, not a sell out. Could it be that maintaning this profile > is important for his future projects? Part of a wider plan for launching a > new album or the rumoured Roxy reunion? Less than rumoured from what I hear. > And anyway could anyone really blame him for cashing in on the cachet his > name carries. After all if he had really wanted to exploit his public > persona he could have grown very rich upon it indeed. > > Personally I would rather see him on prime-time TV than simply as a dusty > relic of a bygone age, or as a cotton-wool-wrapped aesthete on some worthy > arts documentary. It's time YOU decided what YOU want from him. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > Martin Stockman > Sent: 01 December 2000 08:31 > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Miss World : (Out in the cold In the wilderness > again.) > > > ---------- > >From: Colleen Matan > > Remember that band he used to have? Roxy something? Oh yeah--Roxy Music. > > It's called "camp." > > > > That or he needs the money. > > Management. He needs management. > > Checklist : > > Is it cool (no) > Is it kitsch (no) > Is it witty (no) > Is it glamourous (no) > Target audience (saddos) > > Who is recommending this tawdry showcase ? > > Answers please. > > M > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > The subliminable footer says: > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon ___________________________________________________________________________ The subliminable footer says: To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #420 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest