From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #381 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Monday, October 23 2000 Volume 05 : Number 381 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Now v Then [nick williams ] [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion [nick williams ] [AVALON] Live Aid [nick williams ] Re: [AVALON] Live Aid [ferryman@freeuk.com] Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion ["C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" ] Re: [AVALON] Limbo : Very strange cargo [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic [David Neuhaus ] Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Now v Then [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] Live Aid [Daniel Atterbom ] Re: [AVALON] Live Aid [JObinv01@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Live Aid [Daniel Atterbom ] Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid ["Gene" ] [AVALON] magazine/roxy links [gardner@onmail.co.uk] Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid [Daniel Atterbom ] RE: [AVALON] Off topic : Hopelessly Devoto ["Guy Lawley" ] Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid ["Gene" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: nick williams Subject: [AVALON] Now v Then Ferry hasn't changed that much and those > > aspects that have been changed should be celebrated > > rather than criticised (modern groove and greater > > subtlety). They were necessary changes. > > Why were they "necessary changes?" They were necessary changes if Bryan was to go with the times. Since the early 80's music has revolved around the sound, with the lyrics taking a backseat (there are the odd exceptions of course). In the early 70's the emphasis was on the lyrics and mostly because there was a market for it at that point. Phil Manzanera is on record as saying that the success of early Roxy was a combination of "right time, right place". Certainly if you look at a song like Do The Strand it's obvious that Ferry cared far more for the lyrics than the music. I'm convinced that both of the first two Roxy albums would have fallen flat on their face had they been released any time beyond 1980. Great lyrics but the music would not have suited either decade. If you look at Ferry's modern output the opposite is true: he probably cares more for the music than the lyrics. Again it may well be because this is the trend. The groove of the music very much suits the times (Avalon, B&G, BN, Mamouna). That's not to say he cannot write a fantastic lyric any more. He can, but for the last 20 years they have usually been written to suit the music. That often means that the lyrics are far more condensed and therefore often far more subtle as well. It seems no coincidence that only five early era songs appeared on the Street Life greatest hits compilation (released in 1986) and little had changed by 1995 with only three appearing on the More Than This compilation. Yet this was widely regarded as Ferry's most inspiring era! There must have been a realisation that the Roxy sound of yore no longer had a market. Bryan Ferry himself reflected ruefully during numerous interviews in the 80's on the limits of the rhythm section in those early days, almost as if he was embarrassed by it. I think his memories are fonder now and hopefully the release of The Early Years is an indication that things are changing for the better. > Surely it is "run[ning] for the poisoned pen?" only if you feel it is > impossible to express a critical thought without it being _ipso facto_ an > unfounded attack? There are songs on _As Time Goes By_ which are > note-for-note remakes of the original versions and it is possible to be > disappointed by the album for precisely that reason. I happen to share some of your criticisms of this album. However my point is that it's a bit harsh to say that Ferry has dried up on the basis of one album when for so long he has maintained an impeccably high standard. It might seem disappointing that the As Time Goes By tracks are often lacking his own personal touch but then he'd done this so many times before that maybe he just felt that it was time for a change in approach. Nick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: nick williams Subject: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion > > When had emotion left the post-_Bride_ work? "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?" > "The Only Face?" "To Turn You On?" "Your Painted Smile?" "Boys and > Girls?" the absolutely devastating "Is Your Love Strong Enough?" These > are songs without emotion? Without longing? desire? yearning? love? > It's a good point and another one that the critics have tended to pick on. One said that Ferry was so worried with getting the sound right that he forgot to put any emotion into the vocal. For me though the vocal in the post-Bride work has mostly been a perfect reflection of the darkness of the songs. Even when it was somewhat detached (Your Painted Smile) then it often suited the lyric. Nick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: nick williams Subject: [AVALON] Live Aid > I liked that show too, but please refresh my memory, who were backing him? > Dave Gilmour, Nick Kamen (the only time either of these played live with Ferry), Neil Hubbard, Andy Newmark, Fonzi Thornton. A few others as well. Can't remember who though. Nick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:26:34 z (BST) From: ferryman@freeuk.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Live Aid It was Nick Kamen's brother Chester who played with Ferry at Live Aid in 1985. Nick was the one better known for dropping his jeans in the launderette in that Levis advert. Kamen did play with Ferry on other occasions. I saw him on the Danny Baker TV Show for instance. Chris You wrote: > From: nick williams > To: avalon@smoe.org > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:13:17 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [AVALON] Live Aid > > > > I liked that show too, but please refresh my > memory, who were backing him? > > > > > Dave Gilmour, Nick Kamen (the only time either of > these played live with Ferry), Neil Hubbard, Andy > Newmark, Fonzi Thornton. A few others as well. Can't > remember who though. > > Nick > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing > selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! > ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:44:46 +0000 From: "C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion It's surprising to me that Ferry is so often accused of being unemotional in his singing. I have to confess that my view of an approach to singing in pop music is heavily shaped by Bryan Ferry's way of vocalising, but I'd say that there's an interesting ambivalence between emotionality and detachment in early Roxy and solo, and even more emotionality and actually less detachment nowadays. The fact that you often hear him breathing on recent recordings (because the voice is mixed more to the front (again)) gives me an ultimate worldweary lounge-lizardy feeling (no John Lurie backing him though)! To me he sounds very sad when he sings - an introverted man doing something very strange indeed - opening up (more or less) to the outside world. Ferry's voice captures that paradox, as do some others (e.g. Liz Fraser, Nick Drake etc.), but even among the introverted singers, Bryan is absolutely unique, probably due to the dark velvet vocal cords and the intensive phrasing (e.g. drawing the syllables and putting much emphasis on the beginning of a syllable, then quickly getting quieter - almost as if he'd changed his mind and rather not sing to us). This is my interpretation, of course. Some of this I did say in an oral exam in art and cultural psychology, part of which was about "self-presentation and narcissm aspects in the work of Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music" (topic was my own choice). Oh dear! Christian - ---------- >Von: nick williams >An: avalon@smoe.org >Betreff: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion >Datum: Mon, 23. Okt 2000 8:08 Uhr > >> >> When had emotion left the post-_Bride_ work? "Will >You Love Me Tomorrow?" >> "The Only Face?" "To Turn You On?" "Your Painted >Smile?" "Boys and >> Girls?" the absolutely devastating "Is Your Love >Strong Enough?" These >> are songs without emotion? Without longing? >desire? yearning? love? >> > > >It's a good point and another one that the critics >have tended to pick on. One said that Ferry was so >worried with getting the sound right that he forgot to >put any emotion into the vocal. For me though the >vocal in the post-Bride work has mostly been a perfect >reflection of the darkness of the songs. Even when it >was somewhat detached (Your Painted Smile) then it >often suited the lyric. > >Nick > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing >selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > > ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:04:52 +0100 From: Jocelyn Fiske Subject: RE: [AVALON] Off topic : Hopelessly Devoto Devoto Hairstyle look-alike Martino wrote: >I always thought Shot By Both Sides was a nod to Both Ends Burning....but did the rest of their career live up to that magnesium flare debut ? Undoubtedly. Listen to Permafrost. The darkest lyrics south of Dreamhome. And Motorcade - sublime! >Somewhere in the west wing I have the Spiral Scratch E.P, which is supposed to be worth a few bob these days. I sincerely hope so. I have a copy signed by Howard. I went to college with him and he scoffed when(practically with gun to head I forced him to plant his moniker on my copy). Howard "left" music to work in publishing. He always wanted to be Samuel Beckett (unlike Bryan who always wanted to be ...who? Duchamp? Hamilton? Names on a postcard please. Last saw Howard at one of my parties about 6 years ago and lost touch. I hope he is making music again, he is a massive talent. And how Barry Adamson has shone since the early days of joining Magazine with less than 2 cords under his bass playing belt. Another really really lovely bloke. Jocelyn being wistfully nostalgic (just for a change) ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:47:52 EDT From: Julialiva@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion In einer eMail vom 23.10.00 12:54:16 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt soeteman@uni-bremen.de: << To me he sounds very sad when he sings - an introverted man doing something very strange indeed - opening up (more or less) to the outside world. Ferry's voice captures that paradox, as do some others (e.g. Liz Fraser, Nick Drake etc.), but even among the introverted singers, Bryan is absolutely unique, probably due to the dark velvet vocal cords and the intensive phrasing >> One of the best comments I've read so far; wonder if you are into singing yourself that you came so close to this reflection. I would totally agree that he sings more emotionally than ever that's why I am still expecting so much from his own material; I cannot believe it's bad, it might sell not as good as ATGB but doesn't he have enough strong followers to keep on going. He should trust himself more out....we are waiting for it!!! ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:54:02 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: [AVALON] Horridly empty gardner@onmail.co.uk : Your posts are as void as the telephone line that carries no voice. Problems? Well, speak up, I can't hear you!!! ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:05:35 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic Mark, Tim, any one: I remember a very long (perhaps eight or so minutes) piece Mr. Waits did in the earlymid90's. It featured Waits mimicking an old-time drunk singing an old-time song/hymn, backed by an orchestra. I liked the piece for its effects and somber mood. If I am not imagining this composition I have briefly described, could you name the tune, its availability, and any other info about it that you might know? Please? Thank you in advance. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:14:54 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Limbo : Very strange cargo "... with The Bogus Man keeping the pillow damp in the hour before dawn." Menopause can be such a uncomfortable sleeping companion. But tell me, is it only Mr. Ferry's pillow that dampens one hour pre dawn? (Hint: The above is only a joke, perhaps most appreciated by those who have experienced life changing circumstances. This joke within a joke does not pretend to reflect the views of any other list members. Nor does it pretend to be roll in the aisle funny, dry or drunk humor, vaguely cute, or sweetly cynical.) BTW, to the poster, Mark Thomas, in SF who wishes to form a Roxy tribute band: I would love to audition for the position of Siren. I am located in the greater metropolitan area of Washington, DC. My presence in the band could be displayed on jumbo screen in the background via video conference type technology. Of course, any real-time band members (those located in SF) would need to perform their parts with a slight delay so that I will be in sync with SF players - Unless your prefer that the audience should be treated to a half beat behind Siren! The possibilities are tremendous. (Hint: Yet another sad piece of ill mannered personal humor that probably would not translate well without your knowledge that the above is only an attempt at being funny whether appreciated or not. Jusat joke.) OK, back to our regularly scheduled program: Does Ferry carry or not and those who care! hosted by Cybil Shepherd (States side) and Terry Wogan (Brit side). Best wishes, and good luck to SF. KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:16:35 +0000 From: "C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion Well, yes actually - I learnt singing by singing along to Roxy and Ferry records (now some might say, "So you can't sing properly!" - but well,.....). Their and his music was the reason I started making music myself. Bryan's voice to me is like accidentally tuning in on a distant radio frequency and finding this is what you have always wanted to listen to. There are so many great singers (and many crap singers), but honestly, Bryan Ferry is so unique that you can identify his style with the name. Imagine you overhear a song and somebody reckons that the singer's doing a bit of a Bryan Ferry. Don't we all exactly know what's being alluded to? Wow, I didn't think I could be so impassioned. Must try this out somewhere else... hahaha. "Now, forget all of this" (R. Fripp) Christian - ---------- >Von: Julialiva@aol.com >An: avalon@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion >Datum: Mon, 23. Okt 2000 11:47 Uhr > > >One of the best comments I've read so far; wonder if you are into singing >yourself that you came so close to this reflection. I would totally agree >that he sings more emotionally than ever that's why I am still expecting so >much from his own material; I cannot believe it's bad, it might sell not as >good as ATGB but doesn't he have enough strong followers to keep on going. He >should trust himself more out....we are waiting for it!!! > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing >selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > > ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:21:03 +0000 From: "C.H.S=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=temann" Subject: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic I think this is "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet" by Gavin Bryars, the 90's version. It's probably still available on CD. Get Bryars' "The Sinking Of The Titanic" LP on Obscure, it has got the original version (dating from 75, I think)! But the latter is without Waits, featuring a real "old-time drunk" instead (I suppose there has to be some difference....). Christian - ---------- >Von: KB Porter >An: avalon@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic >Datum: Mon, 23. Okt 2000 13:05 Uhr > >Mark, Tim, any one: > >I remember a very long (perhaps eight or so minutes) piece Mr. Waits did >in the earlymid90's. It featured Waits mimicking an old-time drunk >singing an old-time song/hymn, backed by an orchestra. I liked the >piece for its effects and somber mood. If I am not imagining this >composition I have briefly described, could you name the tune, its >availability, and any other info about it that you might know? Please? > >Thank you in advance. KBP > > >___________________________________________________________________________ >Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing >selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > > ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:26:16 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] hardcore in my dream home < "This is the thing - I think it would suit Ferry's persona better to duet with a woman, if only for balance with his so blatantly masculine image. " > Blatantly masculine image? I don't really see that. Why? < "I think it's fresh and healthy to be critical; it proofs how much you take care of someone you like... " > I mean, in a constructive way, of course. Unless you're into that sort of relationship! ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:27:25 -0400 From: David Neuhaus Subject: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic KBP You might be thinking of Gavin Bryars' "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet." The entire piece is about seventy-five minutes long, with Waits joining in towards the end. This was a remake of the shorter original (without Waits), which was on the "B" side of Bryars' Sinking of the Titanic LP on Eno's Obscure label in the 70's. The version with Waits is available on CD - Point Music (1993). #438 823-2 The whole piece starts out with a homeless man singing the hymn, which is tape-looped over and over as instruments are slowly introduced to the piece. At the end, an entire orchestra is playing, and then Waits joins is. Apparnetly, Tom Waits had contacted Bryars to see if he could get a replacement copy of the original record that he'd lost, and Bryars decided to invite Waits to join in when it was re-recorded. Dave N. ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:40:09 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Now v Then v another world < "If you look at Ferry's modern output the opposite is true: he probably cares more for the music than the lyrics." > ... < "That's not to say he cannot write a fantastic lyric any more. He can, but for the last 20 years they have usually been written to suit the music." > How do you know that, Nick? I must inhabit another planet where the natives believe modern Ferry lyrics are calculated, judicious, and provoking. We also believe modern Ferry music is meticulously crafted. Our theory is that Mr. Ferry's output is that of an artiste total. Next week, we confer sainthood upon he who hath coveted our imagination. ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:54:28 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Post-Bride emotion < "Some of this I did say in an oral exam in art and cultural psychology, part of which was about "self-presentation and narcissm aspects in the work of Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music" (topic was my own choice). Oh dear!" > Christian, sounds fascinating, more please! ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:00:00 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic David! The Bells Toll Loudly Now. Thank You Very, Very Much!!! KBP ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:02:13 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] singing flat off-topic Thank You, Christian! ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Now v Then On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, nick williams wrote: > They were necessary changes if Bryan was to go with the times. Since > the early 80's music has revolved around the sound, with the lyrics > taking a backseat (there are the odd exceptions of course). In the > early 70's the emphasis was on the lyrics and mostly because there was > a market for it at that point. I'm not so sure that this is such a cut and dried break in time periods. Phil Spector and Brian Wilson were certainly interested in sound over lyrics (and while I would call them "odd" I'm not sure I'd call them "odd exceptions"). And the 80s had plenty of people who were interested in how they said what they sang. The singer/songwriter has never disappeared, nor has the person interested in tinkering in the studio. > Manzanera is on record as saying that the success of early Roxy was a > combination of "right time, right place". Certainly if you look at a > song like Do The Strand it's obvious that Ferry cared far more for the > lyrics than the music. How is it obvious? I'm not trying to be a smart ass--I am genuinely puzzled by this comment. I think that the music on the early albums is as carefully crafted, no matter how offhand it may seem, as the lyrics. Everything about Roxy was crafted and done with deliberation. Maybe it wasn't as, erm, finely honed as his later solo work, but I don't get the impression that any aspect of Roxy was slapdash or left in an undone manner. > I'm convinced that both of the first two Roxy albums would have fallen > flat on their face had they been released any time beyond 1980. > Great lyrics but the music would not have suited either decade. But isn't that true of any major work of popular art--that it's completely of its time or place, whether it's "Do The Strand" or _Valley of the Dolls_? A major work of popular culture may not be timeless in that it may still bear the hallmarks of its place and time. And I don't say that in order to fault any of these works: some things, yes, transcend their initial setting. But others are completely of that setting and wouldn't really work beyond it. And there is nothing either wrong or surprising about that. > If you look at Ferry's modern output the opposite is true: he probably > cares more for the music than the lyrics. Again it may well be > because this is the trend. The groove of the music very much suits > the times (Avalon, B&G, BN, Mamouna). That's not to say he cannot > write a fantastic lyric any more. He can, but for the last 20 years > they have usually been written to suit the music. That often means > that the lyrics are far more condensed and therefore often far more > subtle as well. I don't know Mr. Ferry at all, so I can't claim to know what he is thinking, but I do think that it's clear from interviews and articles over the years and his work itself that it has taken a turn inward. Whether this is due to things in his personal life or it's simply because he's no longer in a band and can therefore stare at his navel for hours unmolested, I don't know. But I don't think that he has consciously chosen to change his music in order to keep it more current. I don't see any of that sort of musical calculation (cynicism, even) from his music during the last 15 or so years, and I'd be very disappointed to learn otherwise. Actually, based on various interviews, it seems that he has only the barest idea of what constitutes popular music these days and so for athat reason alone I can't see him consciously trying to turn his work in any current or "modern" direction. And I'd go so far as to say that the groove of his music doesn't come out of the 1980s--I'd say it has always been there in Roxy and harkens back to his early interest in R&B and American soul music, and is expanded upon as of late because of his ability to work with musicians who can bring it to light. > It seems no coincidence that only five early era songs appeared on the > Street Life greatest hits compilation (released in 1986) and little > had changed by 1995 with only three appearing on the More Than This > compilation. Yet this was widely regarded as Ferry's most inspiring > era! There must have been a realisation that the Roxy sound of yore > no longer had a market. Bryan Ferry himself reflected ruefully during Perhaps. But the stuff on these compilations is certainly as dated as the early stuff. I'm not sure that it wasn't that the compilations were designed to draw in the casual fan who knew only "Love Is The Drug" or "Jealous Guy" or maybe "Avalon" as opposed to throwing in the towel with respect to the old stuff. > I happen to share some of your criticisms of this album. However my > point is that it's a bit harsh to say that Ferry has dried up on the > basis of one album when for so long he has maintained an impeccably > high standard. It might seem disappointing that the As Time Goes By > tracks are often lacking his own personal touch but then he'd done > this so many times before that maybe he just felt that it was time for > a change in approach. Perhaps, but personally I hope he's done with that approach. With respect to his being "dried up" and people here commenting on his capacity or ability to continue to write songs: he's been writing songs for a new originals album ever since I joined this list 6 or more years ago. And none of it has surfaced, but it's not his fault because he's been writing. It is indeed unfair to say his talent has dried up given that he's continued to write (and record these songs, no?)--he just can't get them released. However I think it's just as unfair to place the expectation on him to follow up _As Time Goes By_ with a smash hit album (as some have done here). It's not going to happen. And you know--so what? He doesn't need to prove anything to anyone any longer. He's what, 55? He should be allowed to natter about in peace. Just as long as we get to hear something new, naturally. It's an interesting discussion, Nick. Thanks for starting it. Colleen ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:11:57 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Live Aid At 10.18 +0200 0-10-23, nick williams wrote: >Dave Gilmour, Nick Kamen (the only time either of >these played live with Ferry), Neil Hubbard, Andy >Newmark, Fonzi Thornton. A few others as well. Can't >remember who though. Wow! This I'd totally forgotten in the 15 years that has passed. What were the tracks again? :-) Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:43:50 EDT From: JObinv01@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Live Aid In a message dated 23/10/00 10:20:31 Romance Daylight Time, nickhuguk@yahoo.com writes: << Dave Gilmour, Nick Kamen (the only time either of these played live with Ferry), Neil Hubbard, Andy Newmark, Fonzi Thornton. A few others as well. Can't remember who though. >> It was chester Kamen who played with Bryan. He also played in 1989 in Birmingham & London and also on the 1994 leg of the Mamouna tour. J.O'B. Vocals Fonzi Thornton Michelle Cobbs Ednah Holt Guitar Niel Hubbard Chester Kamen Dave Gilmour Bass Marcus Miller Drums Andy Newmark Percussion Jimmy Maelen Keyboards Can't remember off the top of my head but I have the info somewhere. J.O'B. ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:03:46 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Live Aid At 13.43 -0400 0-10-23, JObinv01@aol.com wrote: >Vocals >Fonzi Thornton >Michelle Cobbs >Ednah Holt > >Guitar >Niel Hubbard >Chester Kamen >Dave Gilmour > >Bass >Marcus Miller > >Drums >Andy Newmark > >Percussion >Jimmy Maelen > >Keyboards >Can't remember off the top of my head but I have the info somewhere. A pity this stargazed outfit only played a short set one time. Strange that Pink Floyd did not appear at Live Aid, but this was in the hiatus between Rogers Waters' exit and the comeback without him. Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:22:21 -0400 From: "Gene" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid - -----Original Message----- From: Mary Korfanty To: Avalon@smoe.org Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid Live Aid is where most Americans first saw Ferry. (SNIP) I wonder what, if any, thoughts Ferry has about Live Aid and it`s disasterous results. Gene ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:00:47 +0100 From: gardner@onmail.co.uk Subject: [AVALON] magazine/roxy links ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:40:24 +0200 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid At 14.22 -0400 0-10-23, Gene wrote: >I wonder what, if any, thoughts Ferry has about Live Aid and it`s >disasterous results. Would you care to elaborate on this? Was it disasterous for Ferry or do you mean the whole event? Daniel ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:46:07 +0100 From: "Guy Lawley" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Off topic : Hopelessly Devoto See the latest Uncut for a good interview/update on Devoto by Paul (remember him?) Morley X Guy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jocelyn Fiske Sent: 23 October 2000 12:05 To: 'avalon@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [AVALON] Off topic : Hopelessly Devoto Howard "left" music to work in publishing. He always wanted to be Samuel Beckett (unlike Bryan who always wanted to be ...who? Duchamp? Hamilton? Names on a postcard please. Last saw Howard at one of my parties about 6 years ago and lost touch. I hope he is making music again, he is a massive talent. ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:38:40 -0400 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid the sound was messed up for ferry's set. he wound up holding two mikes in his hand, one of which worked. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Atterbom" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid > At 14.22 -0400 0-10-23, Gene wrote: > >I wonder what, if any, thoughts Ferry has about Live Aid and it`s > >disasterous results. > > Would you care to elaborate on this? Was it disasterous for Ferry or do you > mean the whole event? > > Daniel > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing > selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > > ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:47:29 -0400 From: "Gene" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid - -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Atterbom To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Monday, October 23, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Live Aid >At 14.22 -0400 0-10-23, Gene wrote: >>I wonder what, if any, thoughts Ferry has about Live Aid and it`s >>disasterous results. > >Would you care to elaborate on this? Was it disasterous for Ferry or do you >mean the whole event? > >Daniel > The event. If you remember, none of the promoters of Live Aid ever bothered to assess the situation in Africa before implementing their brain-storm "just dump a cargo plane full of money on it and it`ll go away". None of that money/food/medical supplies ever made it to the people it was supposed to help. In fact, most of it ended up on the black market where the proceeds went to buy more arms that were then used on the very same people the aid was intended for. The rest of it just rotted away in warehouses as the ruling regime used hunger as a weapon to suppress rebellion. Those people were "NOT" starving to death.....they were "BEING" starved to death and by the very regime that was receiving all of that "Live Aid." The whole thing was a miserable sham hastily thrown together by clueless screw heads for bands to promote their albums in the name of charity. Charity entails sacrifice yet the performers sacrificed nothing. They wallowed in unmerited public adulation by donating their time, which is wholly worthless, and some corporations donated services that was worth little more. It was the audience who pledged all the contributions and bought all the crap with money they could ill afford in a circus atmosphere that suggested solving world problems like abject poverty and hunger is fun and easily solved by throwing a party. Gene...who doesn`t miss the '80`s one bit. ___________________________________________________________________________ Come to Las Vegas and hear the indestructible tagline sing selections from "The Jazz Singer" ! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #381 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest