From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #185 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Saturday, May 13 2000 Volume 05 : Number 185 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Irish review & interview ["L.R.S.H.S" ] Re: [AVALON] Spanish tour [Noam Bronstein ] [AVALON] Bryan on the Tely ["Han Snijders en Willy v/d Geest" ] Re: [AVALON] Colleen thinks the Police were world leaders [Russell Schaff] Re: [AVALON] Bryan on the Tely [KB Porter ] Re: [AVALON] Colleen thinks the Police were world leaders [KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Irish review & interview - -----Original Message----- From: KB Porter >The Police was a favored band. Too bad Sting split. I don't care for >his solo work. Hear, hear. Michele - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:24:25 IST From: "gareth mc ginley" Subject: [AVALON] The post Mamouna factor Mark Shanahan wrote with reference to ATGB: >there's no doubt, though, that there was a post-'mamouna' factor going on >there ... so make your own conclusions. Think of how you feel when you've put a couple of hard days work into something, only for it to be ignored or heavily criticised. Some people even feel hurt when their e-mail threads (which they've taken 5 minutes to write) aren't picked up on. So how must Ferry have felt when Mamouna, which was 5 years of hard work, flopped? It must have been absolutely heart breaking. The sad thing is that such a multifaceted work as this cannot just be judged on 1 or 2 listens, as most people tend to do. I also disagree strongly with the assertion that Mamouna would have been a lot better had it been stripped down to piano and vocals. It's certainly an album that just keeps sounding better and better to me (which is hardly likely to happen on an accoustic album). I wish that Ferry wouldn't place so much emphasis on it doing badly. If the failure of such an abstract work as Mamouna has convinced him that a more commercial direction is necessitated then that's very sad because it may well result in a much less interesting product. I'd rather see Roxy get back together. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:32:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Colleen J. Matan" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Spanish tour Careful Martin, now both your ignorance and your rudeness are showing. Perhaps you might step away for a moment to tuck them both back in before you rejoin the party. Inma, me disculpo por su mal comportamiento. No somos todos como eso. Colleen > >From: Inmaculada Serna De Egea < > > P.D: ha sido una sorpresa encontrar otro miembro de la lista español, > > ya verás lo profusa e interesante que es. Un saludo desde la cálida Murcia. > > Jose please. There's no need to be so graphic. And surely that position's > impossible at your age ? > > Martinada This is necessary? This is how we treat people for whom English is not their first language, yet whom make an effort to be part of this list (and who say nice things about this list). It's certainly not funny. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:42:31 PDT From: "mark shanahan" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The post Mamouna factor >From: "gareth mc ginley" >Mark Shanahan wrote with reference to ATGB: >Think of how you feel when you've put a couple of hard days work into >something, only for it to be ignored or heavily criticised. Some people >even feel hurt when their e-mail threads (which they've taken 5 minutes to >write) aren't picked up on. So how must Ferry have felt when Mamouna, >which was 5 years of hard work, flopped? It must have been absolutely >heart breaking. i agree, gareth. i suppose, by most standards that 'matter' to a work [such as this], it did indeed flop. i still say it's his masterpiece; which makes it all the more ... *horrible*. i'm not sure i'd want to meet bryan (meeting your heros, etc., etc.), but if i did - i'd hope i'd tell him that i thought it was a great piece of work (i'm sure that'd lift him up on bad days ... =:0 - maybe not ...). >The sad thing is that such a multifaceted work as this cannot just be >judged on 1 or 2 listens, as most people tend to do. yes, and i meant to have joined in the discussion about 'mamouna' - influences, etc. from about two months ago. i'd like to think i've got a handle on some of its content, but i think there's a ton i haven't even processed/disseminated just yet. >I also disagree strongly with the assertion that Mamouna would have been a >lot better had it been stripped down to piano and vocals. It's certainly >an album that just keeps sounding better and better to me (which is hardly >likely to happen on an accoustic album). no way - but for all the 'aural shellac' ... even bryan admits it gets a bit much (getting bogged down in the studio). that's not to say that making an acoustic album couldn't bog anyone 'down', but i don't think we have to worry (for the end result of a work) that bryan's going to ditch the multi-layered approach anytime soon. >I wish that Ferry wouldn't place so much emphasis on it doing badly. If >the failure of such an abstract work as Mamouna has convinced him that a >more commercial direction is necessitated then that's very sad because it >may well result in a much less >interesting product. I'd rather see Roxy get back together. i get the impression that, despite the undeniable merits of the work itself, bryan's mind works like this sometimes - quality work = multiple sales (or larger audience, if you will). if this is indeed true, *this* is what i would find to be so sad about it. and i would never think, 'hey bryan - just get over it already!'; he seems to feel things very deeply - from what i can tell ... and, again, my impression is that 'atgb', for example, was not some calculated or contrived idea for big sales. i would bet he didn't even expect it do THIS well. part of that is true, though - obviously. that work deserved a larger audience, to say the least. why, even the average joe might have an appreciation - :^). i think the british gov't. ought to have another umpteen pressings and hand them out to everyone entering the country. but hey - that's just me! and, if no one's told him yet, *someone* ought to tell bryan it's a masterpiece. une oeuvre *grande*. i just love that album. multi apologies for the grande verbosity ... peaces/ms ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:49:16 PDT From: "mark shanahan" Subject: [AVALON] cockney rebel ah, i almost forgot - for those interested in acquiring cockney rebel, i found this on e-bay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=%22cockney+rebel%22 i didn't really look it over - and i'm not really familiar with them, so that wouldn't have been any help anyway. of course, you take your chances on e-bay (to some extent). on the other hand, i just received both 'the high road' & 'total recall' [in great condition] for something like $15 (including shipping). i'd trust the items that are *pictured* more than others with just a description ... but maybe that doesn't matter. i don't know; i've only used it three times ever ... peaces/ms ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Bronstein Subject: Re: [AVALON] Spanish tour Colleen, you've obviously forgotten, it's now mid-afternoon GMT and proper English folk are already well into the third pint. NB - --- "Colleen J. Matan" wrote: > Careful Martin, now both your ignorance and your rudeness are > showing. > Perhaps you might step away for a moment to tuck them both back in > before > you rejoin the party. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:58:57 +0200 From: "Han Snijders en Willy v/d Geest" Subject: [AVALON] Bryan on the Tely I've heard that the BRT will broadcast Bryan Ferry on Saturdayevening. I guess this will be the Brusselconcert. The BRT a from Belgium but can be received in Holland as well!! Cheers Han - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:50:18 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Webb Pierce Dear Red: Do you know of a web site where one may listen to Webb Pierce's 'You Ain't No Better Than Me'? You've got my interest. Best wishes. KBP - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:51:23 -0700 From: Russell Schaffer Subject: Re: [AVALON] Colleen thinks the Police were world leaders is there's some sort of ongoing feud between certain people here? - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:18:36 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bryan on the Tely Han, get your vcr revved! - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:20:33 -0400 From: KB Porter Subject: Re: [AVALON] Colleen thinks the Police were world leaders Just "sibling" rivalry. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:21:13 +0100 From: "Laura Shadbolt" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Irish review & interview > Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:32:09 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Colleen J. Matan" > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Irish review & interview > > On Tue, 9 May 2000, Laura Shadbolt wrote: > > Huh? The reason Ferry's not been a target for criticism because _As Time > Goes By_ is an innocuous easy-listening type record which has been > reviewed by middle-aged music critics. It's not like it's getting glowing > reviews all across the music spectrum--there are a number of very high > profile music rags where it has NOT been mentioned. Sometimes omission is > as important as submission. Mmm yes, you're probably right. As for the tour, well, he's a fantastic live > performer. And I'd also wager that without the judicious insertion of a > number of Roxy and solo chestnuts, those live reviews would have taken a > different slant as well. Yep. > With respect to The Police, while I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan, I > would strongly disagree that they were not leaders. If you want to play > that game where leaders are people almost no one has heard of, fine, but That wasn't what I meant at all! > here in the rest of the world leaders are people who have a impact and The > Police had a HUGE impact on popular music. Maybe not on punk music, but > then again they were never a punk act. (_Nota Bene_: This is not meant > to start yet another long, dull off-topic thread, this one about what > constitutes a "punk act" which splits hairs 1843745754 ways. Who cares?) I didn't want to start a long discussion either. I agree that The Police probably made a pretty big impact on music generally - from what little I know - but since punk was around at the time, and they had a, um, similar sound, the press liked to pigeonhole them in with it, so they appeared to be a second-rate punk band. But they weren't really!! - -- Laura - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:52:13 +0100 From: "Robert Whiteford" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The post Flesh & Blood factor Gareth wrote : "So how must Ferry have felt when Mamouna, which > was 5 years of hard work, flopped? " snip and " I also disagree strongly with the assertion that Mamouna would have been a lot better had it been stripped down to piano and vocals" In an interview around Mamouna time ,asked about the commercial failure of Bete Noire after 2 1/2 years effort and reputedly 800,000 of his own coins of the realm , Ferry said that "it's not something I'd want to get wrong again to that degree". Also in a TV interview with Paul Gambaccini he was asked if he ever thought "it's over now" when Trash stiffed after the Bride Stripped Bare had as well. He said yes , he did. I did say that I felt Mamouna would have been better without the clutter, on the basis of the promo of The Only Face and the live version on this tour. There is a haunting beauty there which is somehow lost in the bowels of a 56 track recording studio. I'm not against his use of the multilayering and space, some tracks like Windswept,Avalon and Your Painted Smile you can't imagine being any better. It's just that he's done that, proved he's brilliant at it, and his prodcution has been similar since Flesh & Blood, 20 years ago. And on this tour, on every TV appearence, Ferry looks to me like an artist who is really enjoying himself. He's done something different and it's worked - it's almost like the self imposed restraint in his recent music has been forgotten about. Energy and emotion is back and I think it's something else he does well. And I cannot imagine that ATGB is getting good reviews because it was " a safe bet" - a huge gamble more like it which has mercifully paid off - not least because the album is his most appealing work in 15 years. But there's nothing deliberately commercial about it is there? Rob - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:57:36 +0100 From: "Martin Wilkinson" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Martin should learn to read posts more closely Am I the only one on this list who's fed up with all this public bickering? If you've got a problem with a list member, mail them off list and spare the rest of us, for crying out loud. - -----Original Message----- From: Colleen J. Matan To: avalon@smoe.org Date: 11 May 2000 11:11 Subject: Re: [AVALON] Martin should learn to read posts more closely > >Perhaps you should try parsing it again, this time without the >supercilious attitude. Or without the bottle of gin. > >Colleen > >On Thu, 11 May 2000, Martin Stockman wrote: > >> >From: "Colleen J. Matan" >> > With respect to The Police, while I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan, I >> > would strongly disagree that they were not leaders. If you want to play >> > that game where leaders are people almost no one has heard of, fine, but >> > here in the rest of the world leaders are people who have a impact and The >> > Police had a HUGE impact on popular music. >> >> Oh dear. > > > >-------------------- >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > >Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New >Jersey." > > - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:23:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Bronstein Subject: Re: [AVALON] Martin should learn to read posts more closely Martin Wilkinson wrote: Am I the only one on this list who's fed up with all this public bickering? - --- Yes, you are. The rest of us enjoy it immensely. Noam ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:41:17 +0100 From: "David Squires" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Rebel/Glam talk [avalon-digest V5 #184] On 12 May 2000, at 4:05, Reecey wrote: > And on the subject of V. Plain being ripped off - nothing beats > Sailor's 'A Glass Of Champagne' for that. Does anybody remember a late Sailor single called "Gimme Shakespeare"? I can only remember hearing it once, thought it was good, never heard it again. I don't suppose anyone's got a copy? David - -- David Squires Wimbotsham Norfolk UK - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:52:33 -0400 From: "Gene" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Rebel/Glam talk [avalon-digest V5 #184] - -----Original Message----- From: David Squires To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Rebel/Glam talk [avalon-digest V5 #184] On 12 May 2000, at 4:05, Reecey wrote: > And on the subject of V. Plain being ripped off - nothing beats > Sailor's 'A Glass Of Champagne' for that. >>Does anybody remember a late Sailor single called "Gimme >>Shakespeare"? I can only remember hearing it once, thought it was >>good, never heard it again. I don't suppose anyone's got a copy? There`s a greatest hits CD called "Great Sailor" that was recently exposed as being made by some no-talent sessions band trying to pass themselves off as Sailor. You can read some reviews on the Amazon.com site. Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:49:18 EDT From: Foxandprince@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Bryan on the Tely Dans un courrier daté du 12/05/00 19:18:33 Paris, Madrid (Heure d'été), kbporte@attglobal.net a écrit : << >> Hello! I am new to the list and I seem to be lucky, because this is just the best new in months, well, since I managed to see THE concert twice in Germany, Hamburg on Tuesday the 29th of February and Baden Baden the following Saturday. I would be thrilled if anyone could provide with a copy of the video, all expenses payed of course! Thanks!! Anne. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon Name the source: "I've got enough attitude to kill everyone in New Jersey." ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #185 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest