From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #122 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, March 24 2000 Volume 05 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant ["Will Frechette" ] Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant ["Will Frechette" ] Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition ["Gene" ] Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition [ASchulberg@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant [Irene Adler ] Re: [AVALON] long compng compilations-oriented rant [Noam Bronstein ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:26:25 -0600 From: "Will Frechette" Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant So... I guess what you're saying is pretty much you agree with most of what Mark says, but you're trying to be offended by it. Will - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivor Canning" > Mark Shanahan seems determined to insult as many people as possible when he > says: > > > now - no offense, really - > > followed by: > > > i personally don't want > > ferry to graduate to stadiums and arenas, say, in terms of touring - just > as > > an example. [not that this 'theory' is *any kind* of real threat - now or > > ever.] nor do i want the average guy on the street to know about ferry - > > really [see parethetical above]. as a fan, i think i have to be a little > > bit selfish in this regard. > > Now I really do find this offensive... I would suggest you reflect *very* > carefully on those words. If it wasn't for the efforts of 'average guys on > the street' i.e. money-paying fans, Roxy Music (and Bryan Ferry's career) > wouldn't have lasted long enough to enter your life at all, or mine. We are > all somebody else's idea of the 'average guy in the street'... > > So you want Bryan to be 'not-too-poor', 'not-too-successful' but just right > FOR YOU ? If everyone took that attitude (and Bryan was foolish enough to > listen to it) the Tate Gallery or Reading University would have been Roxy's > last gig and the few in attendance would be saying 'oh, it's not the same > since that nice Dexter Lloyd left...' > > I'm certainly not saying I'm in favour of Bryan commercialising his music > for the sake of sales. That's a different argument altogether. I don't > want him to have hits *at any cost*. FWIW, I think he's already been down > that road more times than I care to remember; sometimes I've liked the > results, other times I haven't. But I do not resent others taking pleasure > in the material I don't happen to like nor would I want this music to remain > the elite preserve of some stale collective of old farts who simply want > things to 'stay the same' (whatever line in the sand you want to draw this > month). > > I don't like compilations much myself (but that's because I have nearly all > of Bryan's recorded output anyway) and NO-ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS wants a > compilation to hold back the release of original material, but WHO SAYS IT'S > READY ?? In the meantime, material which is already recorded can be brought > to the attention to people who don't have every album and single. > > To paraphrase: I don't want Bryan to drop his standards - I want other > people to hear the standard of material he is capable of (new or compiled) > and to go buy more of it so he knows and the record company knows how good > it is and he can do more like it !!! There, what's wrong with that ? > > (God, I'm getting tired of this argument...) > > BTW A final word about compilations, if I may. It occurs to me, in all this > *negative* comment about compilations, that no-one has mentioned the one > Ferry compilation that any collection wouldn't be complete without - 'Let's > Stick Together'. Originally a US-only release, it was only because UK fans > bought this on import (at a hefty price, I distinctly remember !) to the > point where it charted, that Island released it formally in the UK later > that year. Lest you forget, there was only one unreleased track on that > album ! > > So please, no more 'zero-growth' arguments... - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:38:27 -0800 From: William Sommers Subject: Re: [AVALON] pearls and swine At 05:31 PM 3/23/00 -0500, ecwoods@mindspring.com wrote: > It takes a lot energy to make a baby. :>) Speaking solely from a 51% of the population perspective, I assume. Because, erm, well... :-) -wfs - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:54:20 -0600 From: "Will Frechette" Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant And I suppose it would have to be a big triumph for those lowest common denom. Cher/Ricky Martin fans to start emailing the Avalon list. Oh wait, that happened didn't it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivor Canning" big difference between > a) Bryan 'dumbing down' his songs by writing material specifically to appeal > to a (largely fictitious) lowest common denominator audience and > b) letting the 'Ricky Martin/vile Cher' crowd hear songs like 'Let's Stick > Together', 'Avalon' which they might well like and get a taste for and maybe > (just maybe) go on to dip their toes in the really dangerous waters of some > early Roxy. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:14:28 EST From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition In a message dated 03/23/2000 10:24:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, m_shanahan@hotmail.com writes: << From: ASchulberg@aol.com >BTW, the movie has been cast with Hopkins again playing Lecter and Julianne >Moore as Clarice Starling (Jodie Foster turned the role down). oh, no! i was really hoping she'd reprise her role. damn! julianne moore's great, but it won't be the same. ah, well ... >> Apparently Jodie read the book and found it unbelievable that "her' character would do what the author suggests. BTW, I really did not like "Hannibal". "Red Dragon" and "Silence of the Lambs" were excellent and compelling, but this last one was ridiculous, IMHO. Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:21:10 -0500 From: "Gene" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Official newsletter 15 - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Swift To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: [AVALON] Official newsletter 15 >The following are a couple of releases which may be of interest to >collectors: > >In Sweden there is a one-off release called "Slave To Love The Very Best Of >The Ballads". It will be available in the U.S. for $25 at http://www.musicmachine.com/ by the end of the month. >There will also be a compilation of early Roxy Music to coincide with a major BBC >drama series "Street Life". The release date is early August. oh boy! Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:35:01 -0500 From: "Gene" Subject: Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition - -----Original Message----- From: ASchulberg@aol.com To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition >In a message dated 03/23/2000 10:24:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, >m_shanahan@hotmail.com writes: > ><< From: ASchulberg@aol.com > >BTW, the movie has been cast with Hopkins again playing Lecter and Julianne > >Moore as Clarice Starling (Jodie Foster turned the role down). > > oh, no! i was really hoping she'd reprise her role. damn! julianne > moore's great, but it won't be the same. ah, well ... >> > >Apparently Jodie read the book and found it unbelievable that "her' character >would do what the author suggests. BTW, I really did not like "Hannibal". >"Red Dragon" and "Silence of the Lambs" were excellent and compelling, but >this last one was ridiculous, IMHO. Having just finished it, I have to say I enjoyed it until the ending ruined it. Totally ludicrous and unbelievable! Surly they`ll film an alternative ending. Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:19:07 EST From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] FYP - The Theremin in Exhibition In a message dated 03/23/2000 7:38:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmoq@pipeline.com writes: << I have to say I enjoyed it until the ending ruined it. Totally ludicrous and unbelievable! Surly they`ll film an alternative ending. >> I got tired of Lecter being so omnipotent and invincible long before the awful ending. Psst, Gene, we should probably take this offline or to silenceofthelambs.com. Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: Irene Adler Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant While we are on the subject of offenses and offensives- I am suddenly reminded of e-man and his misogynistic and racist views..... hmmmmmmmm.. By the way Will- good luck with the Doctor- and Noam too! - --- Will Frechette wrote: > So... I guess what you're saying is pretty much you > agree with most of what > Mark says, but you're trying to be offended by it. > > Will > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ivor Canning" > > Mark Shanahan seems determined to insult as many > people as possible when > he > > says: > > > > > now - no offense, really - > > > > followed by: > > > > > i personally don't want > > > ferry to graduate to stadiums and arenas, say, > in terms of touring - > just > > as > > > an example. [not that this 'theory' is *any > kind* of real threat - now > or > > > ever.] nor do i want the average guy on the > street to know about > ferry - > > > really [see parethetical above]. as a fan, i > think i have to be a > little > > > bit selfish in this regard. > > > > Now I really do find this offensive... I would > suggest you reflect *very* > > carefully on those words. If it wasn't for the > efforts of 'average guys > on > > the street' i.e. money-paying fans, Roxy Music > (and Bryan Ferry's career) > > wouldn't have lasted long enough to enter your > life at all, or mine. We > are > > all somebody else's idea of the 'average guy in > the street'... > > > > So you want Bryan to be 'not-too-poor', > 'not-too-successful' but just > right > > FOR YOU ? If everyone took that attitude (and > Bryan was foolish enough to > > listen to it) the Tate Gallery or Reading > University would have been > Roxy's > > last gig and the few in attendance would be saying > 'oh, it's not the same > > since that nice Dexter Lloyd left...' > > > > I'm certainly not saying I'm in favour of Bryan > commercialising his music > > for the sake of sales. That's a different > argument altogether. I don't > > want him to have hits *at any cost*. FWIW, I > think he's already been down > > that road more times than I care to remember; > sometimes I've liked the > > results, other times I haven't. But I do not > resent others taking > pleasure > > in the material I don't happen to like nor would I > want this music to > remain > > the elite preserve of some stale collective of old > farts who simply want > > things to 'stay the same' (whatever line in the > sand you want to draw this > > month). > > > > I don't like compilations much myself (but that's > because I have nearly > all > > of Bryan's recorded output anyway) and NO-ONE IN > THEIR RIGHT MINDS wants a > > compilation to hold back the release of original > material, but WHO SAYS > IT'S > > READY ?? In the meantime, material which is > already recorded can be > brought > > to the attention to people who don't have every > album and single. > > > > To paraphrase: I don't want Bryan to drop his > standards - I want other > > people to hear the standard of material he is > capable of (new or compiled) > > and to go buy more of it so he knows and the > record company knows how good > > it is and he can do more like it !!! There, > what's wrong with that ? > > > > (God, I'm getting tired of this argument...) > > > > BTW A final word about compilations, if I may. It > occurs to me, in all > this > > *negative* comment about compilations, that no-one > has mentioned the one > > Ferry compilation that any collection wouldn't be > complete without - > 'Let's > > Stick Together'. Originally a US-only release, it > was only because UK > fans > > bought this on import (at a hefty price, I > distinctly remember !) to the > > point where it charted, that Island released it > formally in the UK later > > that year. Lest you forget, there was only one > unreleased track on that > > album ! > > > > So please, no more 'zero-growth' arguments... > > > > -------------------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:56:22 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant William Sommers is looking for a date (or two) when he says: > Um... I have an import (UK origin) 45 of "What Goes On" b/w "Casanova" -- > are you saying that LST came first? Correct. As is well documented, 'Let's Stick Together' (the album) was released in the UK in September 1976. 'What Goes On'/'Casanova' was released in 1978. >And that the only new song was > subsequently relegated to release as a mere B-side? > It's the second part which seems to make little, if any, sense. I wasn't responsible, guv. I didn't do it, honest and I'm not making this up, either... >Though I > suppose if it was WGO which was the novelty cover item being promoted at > the time, and Casanova used as the B-side to push sales... *shrug* novelty item ? > -wfs (obviously not the discographer in the crowd) I would never think of you as just a discographer in the crowd - or should that be the discographer of the in crowd ? Regards, Ivor. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:34:14 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant Will Frechette > So... I guess what you're saying is pretty much you agree with most of what > Mark says, but you're trying to be offended by it. No, I thought I was being quite specific in quoting the points I disagreed with. In particular, I considered Mark's comment "nor do i want the average guy on the street to know about ferry" to be ill judged and even elitist. Who knows how many potentially huge fans are out there who simply haven't heard the 'right' songs for them ? What I found offensive is the suggestion implicit in his comment that these people are somehow 'unworthy' and that Bryan Ferry is a secret only the cognoscenti should know. Let me paraphrase one more time, because a lot of people have said this already. However much people may wish it to be otherwise, Bryan Ferry will not make a living out of selling albums to we chosen few here on the Avalon list. It is the 'average guy on the street' who needs to be reached and today's 'average guy' is tomorrow's big fan - just like happened to all of us. Oh and commercial success doesn't have to mean artistic cop-out. Pax, Ivor. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:06:00 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] brief encounter mark shanahan gets brief: > btw, i saw this film the past week. i could see 'chance meeting' coming > from this - and though i'm not skeptical per se - did ferry say as much in > an interview somewhere? The entry for 'Chance Meeting' in the booklet to 'The Thrill Of It All' just says 'Inspired by the film 'Brief Encounter''. > a very good film - i'd recommend it. i don't think you'll find it at > blockbuster, for example, or your various video 'chains'. It's *years* since I've seen it - I must go find... Regards, Ivor. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Bronstein Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compng compilations-oriented rant Ivor Canning wrote: > I considered Mark's comment "nor do i want the average > guy on the street to know about ferry" to be ill judged and even elitist. Isn't that the point of this list? ;-) > Who knows how many potentially huge fans are out there who simply haven't > heard the 'right' songs for them ? Huh? oh yeah I forgot, they're gonna do that magical "Ricky Martin/Cher-to-LST-to-Avalon-to early Roxy" transformation dance. Seen it a hundred times. > What I found offensive is the > suggestion implicit in his comment that these people are somehow 'unworthy' > and that Bryan Ferry is a secret only the cognoscenti should know. They have their lists, where they can laugh at music they've never even heard. We've actually heard their crap (on radio) so we can laugh at them. > > Let me paraphrase one more time, because a lot of people have said this > already. However much people may wish it to be otherwise, Bryan Ferry will > not make a living out of selling albums to we chosen few here on the Avalon > list. It is the 'average guy on the street' who needs to be reached and > today's 'average guy' is tomorrow's big fan - just like happened to all of > us. Oh and commercial success doesn't have to mean artistic cop-out. What the fuck is this, a big Crusade to reach the masses? I for one have bigger worries than Bryan's bank balance. Listen to how elitist *you* sound Ivor - We need to reach the poor idiot in the street who still has his head up his ass because we haven't *enlightened* him yet. I think it's clear the marketers that 'make things happen' won't support Bryan in a big way; I'd like to think it's because he didn't play their game, their way. As opposed to commodities like Cher, who know how to fuck all the right execs etc etc etc. Ferry gave them a shitload of hits, they made millions, he owes them nothing, and why shouldn't he have things on his own terms. Sorry for all the cursing, I'm in a lousy mood. Noam ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:51:00 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Bronstein Subject: [AVALON] Buch Baby (was pearls and swine) Thanks for the news Crystal. Make sure she names that kid Virginia. - -Noam ecwoods@mindspring.com wrote: > >From what I could tell, her absence is due mostly to lack of energy. She > likes to answer thoroughly and thoughtfully, as you have probably noticed, > and it's difficult to do that when she's exhausted. It takes a lot energy > to make a baby. :>) ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:02:45 EST From: Avalon887@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Greatest Rock Band Ever I'd have to say it would be a hard choice for me between Dylan and Bryan. Eileen in Queens, NY - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:08:14 EST From: Avalon887@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Re: Desert Island choices In a message dated 3/18/00 9:05:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, MarlanaK@webtv.net writes: << Also he liked black music especially the blues. And he said that Lottie Lenya & Bob Dylan were others who inspired him. >> I admire Dylan; I LOVE Bryan. Tough choice - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:52:35 -0800 From: William Sommers Subject: Re: [AVALON] long compilations-oriented rant At 01:56 AM 3/24/00 +0000, Ivor Canning wrote: >> Though I suppose >> if it was WGO which was the novelty cover item being promoted at >> the time, and Casanova used as the B-side to push sales... *shrug* > > novelty item ? Er, well... let's just say: not the strongest single candidate from 'Bride'. In fact, not even in the top half of my choices. Nor the buying public's, apparently. Which of course didn't stop me from picking up a copy, though I'll admit it was more from being a Reed fan at the time. (You'll pardon my attempting salvage of a modicum of dignity by pointing out that this was just *prior* to 'Street Hassle'.) -wfs - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:22:27 -0500 From: "indiedit" Subject: [AVALON] Re: LST & Newsletters Does anyone know if LST is still in print, where it's available, and what the track list is? Also: Is there an archive of previous official Jim Lawn newsletters? This is the first I've heard of it (Thanks, Richard) - -G - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #122 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest