From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #96 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 05 : Number 096 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] This may be of interest.... ["Simon Galloway" ] Re: [AVALON] Re: Busy Eno ["Pierluigi Marchetti" ] Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... ["Ivor Canning" ] Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man [Heather Marie Buch ] Re: [AVALON] The Devil in the Detail [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] sartor resartus [Heather Marie Buch ] Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man ["tfagan" ] [AVALON] Misheard Lyrics thingy ["eman96" ] [AVALON] Thread Alert: Bryan the Romantic ["eman96" ] Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man [Heather Marie Buch ] Re: [AVALON] Thread Alert: Bryan the Romantic [Heather Marie Buch ] Re: [AVALON] Big suits ["Will Frechette" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:33:15 +0000 From: "Simon Galloway" Subject: [AVALON] This may be of interest.... ..to someone anyway! BBC Radio 2 starts a new 3 part series tomorrow (Saturday, 7pm UK time) - THE DAVID BOWIE STORY. It looks as though it should be good, and part 2 will no doubt have some Fripp and Eno contributions. And you should be able to listen to it on the web www.bbc.co.uk/radio2 (or something along those lines). It's followed by THE BEST OF IN CONCERT, so there maybe a chance of them airing a Bryan song from the Golders Green set, and possibly one that wasn't broadcast before. Sometimes I'm too hopeful for my own good. SimonG - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 06:53:11 -0500 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Eddie Jobson/Curved Air - -----Original Message----- From: Killip family To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Thursday, March 09, 2000 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Eddie Jobson/Curved Air >I saw Curved Air in my home town of Douglas, Isle of Man in the high summer >of either 1974 or '75 I can't quite recall..., post Eddie anyway. > I recently came across a copy of a Curved Air video for sale on rec.music.collecting.vinyl. If interested, contact: Oldhitz Records John.Hughes@oldhitz.co.uk | www.oldhitz.co.uk Gene - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:59:29 +0100 From: "Pierluigi Marchetti" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: Busy Eno William Sommers wrote: >>At 05:54 PM 3/9/00 -0800, Chan wrote: >> Beautiful song. :) I urge everyone to hear it. >If it's U2, I don't think we're going to have a choice in the matter. I urge instead to listen to Stateless, the other new song from U2 on the soundtrack, and absolutely to the Satellite Of Love cover sung by Milla Jovovich. It's truly amazing in my opinion and the Jon Hassell trumpet on the song is pure genius!;) Ciao... Pierluigi U2 Backstage www.u2backstage.com/ *Drop the debt now!* www.jubilee2000uk.org/ - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:40:29 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... Victor Hastings opined: > ivor, you have got one damned esoteric music collection. That's pretty much what my wife says - only with the word 'esoteric' removed and another word, which I don't quite understand, in its place... > BTW somewhere on the web i once saw a little program that let you use your > mouse as a theremin; moving the mouse changed the pitch of the output. wish > i had saved it! I wish you'd saved it, too ! Regards, Ive. - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:44:26 -0000 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... The being known as eRacerX brings a message for humankind with these words: > Victor said: > > ivor, you have got one damned esoteric music collection. > > You can get one too... > http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hoffman.and.the.theremin.dr.samuel.j.h > tml > > or a theremin: > http://www.thereminworld.com/ Thanks for the excellent 'thereminworld' tip. I spotted a reference to Clara Rockmore - a superb player who went more for the classical repertoire than Hoffman, she really looked the part for such an arch instrument. The classic, enduring photograph of her can be found at a webpage being set up about her at www.geocities.com/Vienna/1859/index.html A truly superb image. I videoed Lydia Kavina (at least I *think* it was her, I haven't seen the tape for some time) on some godawful late night ITV show a few years ago playing 'Clair de Lune' on unaccompanied Theremin (could have been written for it, really). Just magic... Bob Moog's company 'Big Briar' have a site at www.bigbriar.com - a Theremin for under $400 ? I'm tempted, but I don't think I could face the opprobrium of yet *another* instrument in the house that I can't play properly... Ivor. BTW It's a shame the 'forcedexposure' site don't show the individual sleeves, they really are worth a look ! - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:12:21 -0500 From: "Ujvary, Richard A." Subject: RE: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... ..in the Outer Limits too, eh? You know I see this "Punk Meets the Godfather" thing with Eno et al meeting with the inventor of the weird sounding machine, Leon Theremin, a Russian who unfortunately wound up in the KGB's clutches. I think he's known as the "godfather" of electronic music. And with that "esoteric" collection, you must have some real wild parties, man. Rich - -----Original Message----- From: Ivor Canning [mailto:ivor.canning@cwcom.net] Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 9:11 PM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... .... controls the vertical and the horizontal - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:29:00 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: [AVALON] clothes make the man On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Heather Marie Buch wrote: > Another opinion from the U.S. capital.... OK, well, I shorthanded my explanation to one sentence, but I guess that it was too terse. With _Let's Dance_ Bowie was deliberately trying to go mainstream. Suddenly he was Mr. Debonair, with "normal" hair, chatting with every American news outlet about books and painting, the Renaissance man, blah blah blah. Turning aside all questions about his questionable past. People DID remember him as "the guy who wore dresses." Because I remember watching him on that Bing Crosby Christmas special as a younger curmudgeon, unable to believe it was really going to be David Bowie and simultaneously hoping my parents would not come in and make me change the channel. As it turns out, my dad walked in as they were singing. "Hey," he said. "Who is that guy with Bing?" "David Bowie." "Didn't he used to wear dresses?" And this from my extremely sheltered dad. So of course the first thing he had to do was remove that rather indelible image. Hence, the suits for that tour, the huge amount of press devoted to them, and later, The Big Suit. Heather also wrote: > Aside from the obvious reactionary aspect, new wave was the first > pop cultural movement that really exploited video, (after broadcast > television, of course, and the late 60's/early 70's avant-garde > experimentations of Nam June Paik, Ant Farm, Bruce Nauman and other > video artists). For these late 70's/early 80's bands, it became necessary > to create video images of themselves, which meant perfecting and > distinguishing themselves through a "look," whether it was the > euro-suavity of Ferry, the retro-kitsh of the B-52's, the slightly > off-kilter "normality" of the Talking Heads and Devo, or the surreal > freakishness of the Residents. To which I make the following reply: Well, I guess I am not willing to concede the work of Nam June Paik is what drove MTV in its early years. Yes, these things were happening simultaneously, but that does not mean that there was a cause and effect relationship (I'm sure you can dig up one or two artists who might cite that stuff as a driving influence, but one swallow does not make a summer). In addition, the drive to distinguish oneself quickly degenerated into mere copying (_viz._, all of those interchangeable hair bands). Furthermore, I would posit that this drive to distinguish oneself existed in popular music--and, indeed, in popular culture as a whole--long before video, or television for that matter, was invented. Sticking only to music, you only need to think of Pat Boone and his white bucks, Elvis and his pompadour, Minnie Pearl and her hat, and KISS and their makeup for starters. Hell, why not throw Liberace in there as well. Now, to bring this back to Ferry, Lynn wrote: > In the case of Bryan Ferry, I clearly recall the evolution of his > "look". Pre-tux, he was no trendsetter in the clothing department > (although he clearly had great taste in threads!) But, just like any > artist, he wanted to come up with a look that set him apart from the > rest. So, I suppose this is where the "video image" part of > Heather's post comes in. In any performance medium, a unique look is I would agree that the evolution of the "tux look" was deliberate. But I think of this as a very conservative move, and not just a reaction to the increasingly stylized pop music world. Just as the music of Roxy becomes more conservative, so does Ferry's dress. He never really seemed comfortable in the outlandish dress, with perhaps the exception of the actual costumes he donned from time to time. Colleen - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:12:31 -0500 From: "Ujvary, Richard A." Subject: RE: [AVALON] clothes make the man From what I know about the suit it was Byrne's idea to have his head look smaller in comparison to his body. He wanted to epitomize that the head sometimes lags with what the body's doing with when they're all "gettin' down" and doin' all the funky stuff. Also, he comes as a rock star "bigger than life" with those threads. Rich - -----Original Message----- From: Colleen Matan [mailto:matanc@gusun.georgetown.edu] Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:29 AM To: avalon@smoe.org Subject: [AVALON] clothes make the man On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Heather Marie Buch wrote: The Big Suit. - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:47:01 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivor Canning" To: Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Theremins Go By... (snip) > > BTW somewhere on the web i once saw a little program that let you use your > > mouse as a theremin; moving the mouse changed the pitch of the output. wish > > i had saved it! > > I wish you'd saved it, too ! well, i remembered where i found it. go to www.sagebrush.com and look for the MouSing, which is the program that is inspired by the theremin. free 30-day trial as well as several links to theremin pages. - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:08:12 +0100 From: "Martin Stockman" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Devil in the Detail - ---------- >From: Colleen Matan > With _Let's Dance_ Bowie was deliberately trying to go mainstream. > Suddenly he was Mr. Debonair, with "normal" hair, chatting with every > American news outlet about books and painting, the Renaissance man, blah > blah blah. Turning aside all questions about his questionable past. As the rock and roll generation enters middle age I sympathise with the dilemma of ageing rebels, and how they disport themselves as the days dwindle down. Would it not be preposterous for David to be decked out with Alladin Sane make-up as he number-crunched at Bowiebanc ? Or Jagger to be hopping around with a bandana ? (What ! He still is ?) The flip-side, of course, is Eric Clapton receiving an award at some over-50s US music convention looking like he's about to enquire if you have sufficient travel insurance. Or Roger Daltry deciding he'd rather not die before he gets old and, while your here, why not use an American Express card to start a trout farm. Getting it right isn't easy. At some stage you gotta move on from the lip gloss and lotus blossum without your fan base accusing you of deliberately going mainstream. Bryan, whilst never really zig-zagging in the shadows, started cool and remains cool. It is, after all, the main rule. Today,the much derided flat cap has a certain charm lodged up on his brillantined thatch. The red silk scarf cuts a dash backstage as the moths engulf his flame, (and may also come in handy back at the hotel.) The look is modern if unfashionably fogey. The devil is in the detail. The only time the Maestro came unstuck sartorially was around the release of Bride. Leather blousons (sp?) were worn with bow ties. A George Hamilton tan. White patent winklepickers. And (whisper it faint hearts) ..a bushy beard. For a brief period he was that man out of time, (your Dad straining in to his 501s) - he didn't know which way to turn. Martini - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:07:39 -0600 (CST) From: MarlanaK@webtv.net (Mary Korfanty) Subject: [AVALON] Re: threads,looking dapper Has anyone paid attention to Andy Garzia , & how much he looks like Bryan? I saw this article on best dressed people & he was one of them. He wears hats like Bryan , He is a 42 size & attribued to just buying off the rack. But he says he goes for the softness of a fabric & how it feels on ,In order to look good it has to feel good. He buys for his flair & not what his wife tells him. Although he said he'd listen & still get what felt good on him. Maybe this is Ferry's approach in clothes! They could pass for brothers. M. Marlana K................................. - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:08:45 PST From: "mark shanahan" Subject: [AVALON] a theremin a day ... >From: "Ivor Canning" [snip] > > It's in movies like Spellbound and Day Earth Stood Still. > > I bet it even was in The Thing. > >You are entirely correct on all three counts. The theremin player on all >of those films and around 20 more, including 'The Lost Weekend', 'Road To >Rio', 'Rocketship X-M', 'It Came From Outer Space' and 'The Ten >Commandments' was one man, Dr Samuel J. Hoffman. > >Hoffman practised as a chiropodist by day and a band leader in the >evenings. His big break came in 1945 when 'Spellbound' composer Miklos >Rozsa convinced Hitchcock and David O. Selznick that a theremin would be >perfect for conveying the sense of paranoia needed for the film, even though they reportedly weren't sure if you 'ate it >or took it for headaches'. [snip] this is all very interesting. the theremin homepage is great; they even tell you how to build one (ha-ha)! i think the theremin is absolutely one of the coolest instruments ever. from the beach boys to sci-fi to hitchcock. i'll have to check into both mr. hoffman's & clara rockmore's stuff (i understand there's a cd of hers entitled, 'the art of the theremin'). and now i'm all psyched up to watch 'the day the earth stood still', etc. again! although - i didn't remember the theremin in 'spellbound' at all; but, it's been years since i've seen it. and, if this rozsa convinced selznick of anything, he probably deserves a lot of credit ... which leads into another hitchcock-related mention -- just that i think bernard herrmann, who did a lot/most of the hitchcock film soundtracks, is great. very much underrated, IMO. 'north by northwest', 'psycho', etc. but 'vertigo' is an all-time favorite ... and, of course, he did many others, including 'citizen kane'. mary korfanty writes: >A U2 single,"The Ground Beneath Her Feet"From a film "The Million Dollar >Hotel ", written by Bono. The production by "BRIAN ENO" with guitarist >Daniel Lanola". daniel lanola?! wow, is this *the* daniel lanola - the new zealander who discovered that his sheep secreted this substance?!! woo-hoo! you can read all about lanolin right here: http://www.rolexlanolin.com/Lanolin.htm wow; he must be really, really _rich_ by now ... peaces/ms ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:23:42 -0500 (EST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man > With _Let's Dance_ Bowie was deliberately trying to go mainstream. > Suddenly he was Mr. Debonair, with "normal" hair, chatting with every > American news outlet about books and painting, the Renaissance man, blah > blah blah. Turning aside all questions about his questionable past. Well, it's true that it could have been an early 80's conservative preppy reaction to the wildnesss of the 70's (god knows Bowie wouldn't have been the only one doing it). Actually, now that I live in preppyland (Boston, which actually isn't preppy anymore), I asked an old-timer the other day how the preppy look came to be in the late 70's. He said it was from the oil shortage. People didn't have enough heat to warm their houses, so they started wearing more layers. But back to the point, there might have been a combination of both influences at work (mainstream reaction plus the emergence of video). The suits for Bowie, Byrne, and Ferry emerged in the late 70's/early 80's at about the same time that narrative-style videos (with "plots", unlike live performances like Musikladen) came onto the scene. I don't know if their suits were synchronous with those three artists first narrative videos, but I do know that Byrne's "Burning Down the House" and Bowie's "Ashes to Ashes" both date to 1981. When you look at those early videos, you see that the artists are wearing simple, monochromatic clothing, generally in light colors (also look at Devo's 1981 "Love Without Anger, or Laurie Anderson's 1981 "O Superman" - she's wearing a white "TV suit" too!). This may have been because of the bad quality of the video medium (American-standard video has about 350,000 pixels, whereas 35 mm film has about 7 million, and I'm sure video had less back then), there just isn't enough information capture in video for a highly-detailed, brocaded-and-feathered-with-shiny-metal-buttons "glam-rock costume" to have looked any good. And maybe these artists with their "suits" were also attempting to make ironic statements on conservatism, mass media, and broadcast TV, whose video medium they were now able to subvert. > > People DID remember him as "the guy who wore dresses." Because I remember > watching him on that Bing Crosby Christmas special as a younger > curmudgeon, unable to believe it was really going to be David Bowie and > simultaneously hoping my parents would not come in and make me change the > channel. As it turns out, my dad walked in as they were singing. "Hey," > he said. "Who is that guy with Bing?" "David Bowie." "Didn't he used to > wear dresses?" And this from my extremely sheltered dad. > > So of course the first thing he had to do was remove that rather indelible > image. Hence, the suits for that tour, the huge amount of press devoted > to them, and later, The Big Suit. > And possibly, a tip of the hat to the political conservatism of the early 80's. > Heather also wrote: > > > Aside from the obvious reactionary aspect, new wave was the first > > pop cultural movement that really exploited video, (after broadcast > > television, of course, and the late 60's/early 70's avant-garde > > experimentations of Nam June Paik, Ant Farm, Bruce Nauman and other > > video artists). For these late 70's/early 80's bands, it became necessary > > to create video images of themselves, which meant perfecting and > > distinguishing themselves through a "look," whether it was the > > euro-suavity of Ferry, the retro-kitsh of the B-52's, the slightly > > off-kilter "normality" of the Talking Heads and Devo, or the surreal > > freakishness of the Residents. > > To which I make the following reply: > > Well, I guess I am not willing to concede the work of Nam June Paik is > what drove MTV in its early years. Well Paik's "Global Groove" (1973) was one of the first to employ synthesized effects, and pop music. In many ways it was one of the first music videos. I think that Buggles "Video Killed the Radio Star" was also a real early one but I don't have the date. > Furthermore, I would posit that this drive to distinguish oneself existed > in popular music--and, indeed, in popular culture as a whole--long before > video, or television for that matter, was invented. Sticking only to > music, you only need to think of Pat Boone and his white bucks, Elvis and > his pompadour, Minnie Pearl and her hat, and KISS and their makeup for > starters. Hell, why not throw Liberace in there as well. > I know. I know. I would only say in response that before the video era, you had a lot of musician with fanciful costumes - Elvis, Elton John, the Ronettes, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans (maybe the first video musicians). But, beginning in the early 80's, you had both artists making videos on a widescale basis, AND artists wearing simple, light-colored suits that are obviously appropriate for the TV medium - Ferry, Bryne, Bowie, Anderson, and others I'm sure. > Now, to bring this back to Ferry, Lynn wrote: > I would agree that the evolution of the "tux look" was deliberate. But I > think of this as a very conservative move, and not just a reaction to the > increasingly stylized pop music world. Just as the music of Roxy becomes > more conservative, so does Ferry's dress. He never really seemed > comfortable in the outlandish dress, with perhaps the exception of the > actual costumes he donned from time to time. I would definitely agree that conservatism had a lot to do with the suits as well. Heather - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Devil in the Detail On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Martin Stockman wrote: > As the rock and roll generation enters middle age I sympathise with the > dilemma of ageing rebels, and how they disport themselves as the days > dwindle down. Would it not be preposterous for David to be decked out with > Alladin Sane make-up as he number-crunched at Bowiebanc ? Or Jagger to be > hopping around with a bandana ? (What ! He still is ?) The flip-side, of [...] > Getting it right isn't easy. At some stage you gotta move on from the lip > gloss and lotus blossum without your fan base accusing you of deliberately > going mainstream. Bryan, whilst never really zig-zagging in the shadows, Right. Except my point about Bowie (which was who this was orginally about) was that he deliberately tried to be mainstream in the mid-80s in a conscious attempt to make as much money as possible. Then, 10 years later, he decided that he was Trent Resnor redux. Then he was Johnny Rotten redux, complete with orange hair and Union Jack suit. So I don't think ag[e]ing gracefully is his goal. As for Mr. Ferry, he stopped taking risks a long time ago. Changing the length of the cuff of your sleeve or the cuff (turn-up) of your pants is not a fashion forward statement in rock 'n roll. Colleen - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:52:04 PST From: "mark shanahan" Subject: [AVALON] the whirling devilish details >From: Colleen Matan >Right. Except my point about Bowie (which was who this was orginally >about) was that he deliberately tried to be mainstream in the mid-80s in a >conscious attempt to make as much money as possible. i remember a late 80's interview/article on iggy pop - around the time of 'blah, blah, blah' ... there's group talk on the album (w/bowie in the room). bowie says, 'give it to me - i'll make it 'commercial' as hell!'. so ... i'd just have to agree with colleen. *and* bowie just made no bones about it - whatsoever. and his bank account *does* show for it - in no small way, i might add. peaces/ms ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:58:41 -0500 (EST) From: Colleen Matan Subject: [AVALON] sartor resartus On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Heather Marie Buch wrote: > The suits for Bowie, Byrne, and Ferry emerged in the late 70's/early 80's > at about the same time that narrative-style videos (with "plots", unlike > live performances like Musikladen) came onto the scene. I don't know if > their suits were synchronous with those three artists first narrative > videos, but I do know that Byrne's "Burning Down the House" and Bowie's > "Ashes to Ashes" both date to 1981. When you look at those early videos, > you see that the artists are wearing simple, monochromatic clothing, > generally in light colors (also look at Devo's 1981 "Love Without Anger, > or Laurie Anderson's 1981 "O Superman" - she's wearing a white "TV suit" > too!). This may have been because of the bad quality of the video medium > (American-standard video has about 350,000 pixels, whereas 35 mm film has > about 7 million, and I'm sure video had less back then), there just isn't > enough information capture in video for a highly-detailed, > brocaded-and-feathered-with-shiny-metal-buttons "glam-rock costume" to > have looked any good. > > And maybe these artists with their "suits" were also attempting to make > ironic statements on conservatism, mass media, and broadcast TV, whose > video medium they were now able to subvert. Oh, yes, I'm sure of it. > > So of course the first thing he had to do was remove that rather indelible > > image. Hence, the suits for that tour, the huge amount of press devoted > > to them, and later, The Big Suit. > > > And possibly, a tip of the hat to the political conservatism of the early > 80's. Right. And that's what I said. > Well Paik's "Global Groove" (1973) was one of the first to employ > synthesized effects, and pop music. In many ways it was one of the first > music videos. I think that Buggles "Video Killed the Radio Star" was also > a real early one but I don't have the date. OK, if you are defining a "music video" as something shot on videotape which employs music, well, then just about anything is a music video. "Video Killed the Radio Star" was the first video played on MTV. It was an early music video, but there were many more which predated it. It was chosen mostly for its ironic value; not for any sort of historic significance. > I know. I know. I would only say in response that before the video era, > you had a lot of musician with fanciful costumes - Elvis, Elton John, the > Ronettes, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans (maybe the first video musicians). > But, beginning in the early 80's, you had both artists making videos on a > widescale basis, AND artists wearing simple, light-colored suits that are > obviously appropriate for the TV medium - Ferry, Bryne, Bowie, Anderson, > and others I'm sure. OK, now hold on a minute. Just yesterday you had proclaimed > video artists). For these late 70's/early 80's bands, it became necessary > to create video images of themselves, which meant perfecting and > distinguishing themselves through a "look," whether it was the > euro-suavity of Ferry, the retro-kitsh of the B-52's, the slightly > off-kilter "normality" of the Talking Heads and Devo, or the surreal > freakishness of the Residents. which is what I had been responding to when I wrote > Furthermore, I would posit that this drive to distinguish oneself > existed in popular music--and, indeed, in popular culture as a > whole--long before video, or television for that matter, was > invented. Sticking only to music, you only need to think of Pat Boone > and his white bucks, Elvis and his pompadour, Minnie Pearl and her hat, > and KISS and their makeup for starters. Hell, why not throw Liberace in > there as well. If you're suddenly going to switch the context and now start talking about "light colored suits" and then use that as a rebuttal, I'm afraid that I will be unable to have any sort of meaningful conversation on the subject. Furthermore, Dale and Roy would be film "musicians", no? And there are lots of musical stars who did similar things long before they came along--filmed performances of famous singers/musicians had their start in the 1920s, if not the 1910s. Then again you distinguish between merely performing a song and having a "narrative," so I'm not quite sure how Dale and Roy fit in here. Colleen - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:38:19 -0500 (EST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] sartor resartus On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Colleen Matan wrote: > OK, now hold on a minute. Just yesterday you had proclaimed > > > video artists). For these late 70's/early 80's bands, it became necessary > > to create video images of themselves, which meant perfecting and > > distinguishing themselves through a "look," whether it was the > > euro-suavity of Ferry, the retro-kitsh of the B-52's, the slightly > > off-kilter "normality" of the Talking Heads and Devo, or the surreal > > freakishness of the Residents. > > which is what I had been responding to when I wrote > > > Furthermore, I would posit that this drive to distinguish oneself > > existed in popular music--and, indeed, in popular culture as a > > whole--long before video, or television for that matter, was > > invented. Sticking only to music, you only need to think of Pat Boone > > and his white bucks, Elvis and his pompadour, Minnie Pearl and her hat, > > and KISS and their makeup for starters. Hell, why not throw Liberace in > > there as well. > > If you're suddenly going to switch the context and now start talking about > "light colored suits" and then use that as a rebuttal, I'm afraid that I > will be unable to have any sort of meaningful conversation on the subject. > Furthermore, Dale and Roy would be film "musicians", no? And there are > lots of musical stars who did similar things long before they came > along--filmed performances of famous singers/musicians had their start in > the 1920s, if not the 1910s. Then again you distinguish between merely > performing a song and having a "narrative," so I'm not quite sure how Dale > and Roy fit in here. > Well, I had read that Rogers and Evans were "TV cowboys." If it was film, I stand corrected. I guess the point that I was trying to make about the suits is that, while distinct fashion statements had been made since time immemorial (as artists are generally fops), the images that started to emerge at the dawn of the video era (and this includes B-52's, Devo, Residents, but most distinctively the wearers of the "light colored suits - Bowie, Anderson, Byrne, and Ferry) were creations for the video camera. These artists wore costumes like artists have all along, but these costumes were different. They were simple, "bigger than life," bright, almost cartoon-like, and lent themselves to well to the poor-quality resolution of the video medium. Heather - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:00:41 -0500 From: "tfagan" Subject: Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man I thought it all boiled down to the fact that Byrne's wife is a costume designer. - --TriTri - -----Original Message----- From: Ujvary, Richard A. >From what I know about the suit it was Byrne's idea to have his head look >smaller >in comparison to his body. - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:23:25 -0800 From: "eman96" Subject: [AVALON] Misheard Lyrics thingy "I'm a stranger in your towel." e - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:28:38 -0800 From: "eman96" Subject: [AVALON] Thread Alert: Bryan the Romantic Amoung all the things Mr. Bryan Ferry has been called, "the first to bring true intelligence to bear in pop," to "cool ruler," one that seems a constant is he's "a very romantic man." I am wondering if there is a difference in what lyrics of his females find romantic versus what BF lyrics males find romantic. I'm wondering if there really is any distinction or variance between the sexes in what lyrics appeal as romantic??? Thoughts? Examples? e - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] clothes make the man Is she? I knew she was a Buddhist... Heather On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, tfagan wrote: > I thought it all boiled down to the fact that Byrne's wife is a costume > designer. > > --TriTri > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ujvary, Richard A. > > > >From what I know about the suit it was Byrne's idea to have his head look > >smaller > >in comparison to his body. > > > > > > -------------------- > To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail > majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > http://www.mit.edu/~hmbuch/ Heather Marie Buch asbuch@midway.uchicago.edu - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:37:31 -0500 (EST) From: Heather Marie Buch Subject: Re: [AVALON] Thread Alert: Bryan the Romantic Oh god, eman. Don't get us started on that one again ;-). No, seriously. I for one have some very contradictory notions on Ferry, Ferry's music, and sexuality. But nobody wants to hear them anymore. Any other ladies care to comment? Heather On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, eman96 wrote: > Amoung all the things Mr. Bryan Ferry has been called, "the first to bring > true intelligence to bear in pop," to "cool ruler," one that seems a > constant is he's "a very romantic man." > > I am wondering if there is a difference in what lyrics of his females find > romantic versus what BF lyrics males find romantic. > > I'm wondering if there really is any distinction or variance between the > sexes in what lyrics appeal as romantic??? > > Thoughts? Examples? > > e > > > > > > -------------------- > To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail > majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > http://www.mit.edu/~hmbuch/ Heather Marie Buch asbuch@midway.uchicago.edu - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:38:41 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Subject: Re: [AVALON] sartor resartus Heather wrote: >I guess the point that I was trying to make about the suits is that, while >distinct fashion statements had been made since time immemorial (as >artists are generally fops), the images that started to emerge at the dawn >of the video era (and this includes B-52's, Devo, Residents, but most >distinctively the wearers of the "light colored suits - Bowie, Anderson, >Byrne, and Ferry) were creations for the video camera. These artists wore >costumes like artists have all along, but these costumes were different. >They were simple, "bigger than life," bright, almost cartoon-like, and >lent themselves to well to the poor-quality resolution of the video >medium. If we're going to talk about the "dawn of the video era" and how it impacted attire in the music business, we really should give credit to the man who invented MTV for being the first to make a video fashion statement. Anyone recall what Michael Nesmith was wearing in the first ever music video, "Rio?" Hmmmm? :) Ferry and Bowie were stylin' in the UK, but Nesmith turned a lot of heads in the U.S. with his fancy duds. (Check out the cover of the "Elephant Parts" video. Why, it's a tux!) However, I think that a little too much importance is being placed on video. Seems to me it was too new (in the mid-late '70's) for artists to appreciate it's importance. So, I guess I disagree that the suits worn by the artists you mention were created solely for the video camera. How about the live audience? That's where these artists placed their emphasis. Lynn - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:25:18 -0600 From: "Will Frechette" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Big suits My kinda guy! I'm rationing out my last Percocet for the weekend. in case of pain. Will - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Bronstein" I'm begging people, no more Britney Spears, Van Halen or Black Sabbath > references for today okay? It's been a long week and the medicine cabinet > seems a bit low on Demerol. I may have to resort to a Torredol-neo citran > cocktail to get through the night. > NB > > "Ten million Dead Heads can't be wrong." - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #96 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest