From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V5 #70 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, February 22 2000 Volume 05 : Number 070 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] A Perfumed Sigh Downunder ["Ian Mitchell" ] Re: [AVALON] Songs on Viva ["Decophile" ] Re: [AVALON] Songs on Viva-(Warning! Long and Boring!) ["Decophile" Subject: [AVALON] A Perfumed Sigh Downunder I really thought that Australia may have been in the "too hard" category to send APS to, what with different video formats etc. I had psyched myself down to not expecting to get a copy but being glad it was out there somewhere. However today I returned home and thoughtfully left on the porch by the postman, a beautiful yellow jiffy bag containing the very item. This has saved me having to decide tonight whether to watch Crocodile Dundee 7, "Michael Hutchence, the Peepholes Prince" or a marathon of Prisoner (Cell Block H to you Brits). Thanks to Martino, Kicki, J O'B et al. I will send AU$30.00 to you Martino (which is the equivalent of US$15.00) but do you need more for the postage? E-mail me off line if so. Yaba Dabba Dooooo EON - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:19:04 +0100 From: f2hb@casema.net (2HB) Subject: Re: [AVALON] rock stars Heather Buch wrote: >I got into a debate with my husband about the existence of rock >stars. He says that term is meaningless, and there have always >been only "musicians." ... >I'm just wondering, what do people think of "rock stars"? Do >they exist? Is Bryan one? Or was he? (I personally don't think >so, although he came from that era and was a rocker. Still, he >belongs to another category). > >Ciao, > >Heather - --------- I think your husband is right. It's simply an indication the kind of business they are in. Giving their status more glamour like Hollywood stars. IMHO it was the case with Bryan during that short period with Jerry. Same goes with Sylvian & Japan. Frank - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:34:54 -0500 From: ecwoods@mindspring.com Subject: [AVALON] Songs on Viva/Re-mastered albums I saw a re-mastered _Viva!_ this weekend at Borders Books and Music. Do you think that would be any better? A question to all of you: How do the good citizens of Avalonia feel about re-mastered RM/BF albums in general? Marketing ploy or good investment? Crystal - ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Bronstein > It truly is a wonder Viva! sounds like shit, considering the cast of engineers > who get credit on it. <>My latest attempt to get a better sounding copy led me to > buy a Greek import with low stamper numbers in the dead wax - indicating a first > or second pressing. That one sounds like crap too. > > - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:19:19 -0500 From: ecwoods@mindspring.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] rock stars To me, the term "rock star" carries with it connotations of fame and an outlandish lifestyle that no ordinary "musician" could ever achieve. Your cousin who takes piano may be a "musician," but these people--and you mention several--are the stuff of legend. They live like kings (or queens, whichever), they're usually high profile so it's common knowledge how much money and success they have, and they impact pop culture in some way, either through their dress or their ideology. Ferry _has_ had significant pop culture impact, mainly because he oozes style, but I agree with you, Heather, that BF isn't really a rock star in the same sense as, say, Mick Jagger. I'm with Robert Whiteford when he says that Ferry has a "'stranger in your town' attutude" about the music business. It's his job, not his vehicle to "look-at-me!" superstardom. He has quietly (and painstakingly) been making some of the best music around, not because of the fame--which he may see primarily as a side-affect of his job--but because it's what he believes he is called to do. Anytime an artist has a good, loyal following, it's easy to attach the "rock star" label, but at least in this stage in his life, I don't think Ferry qualifies as a rock star. He just doesn't fit the total profile. I was two when RM's first album came out, so I can't really make a case for whether BF was a rock star in the seventies. I had to be in bed by seven and missed the whole decade. Maybe we can hear from someone else on that. Anyone? Crystal - ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Buch < > I got into a debate with my husband about the existence of rock > stars. He says that term is meaningless, and there have always > been only "musicians." I say no, there was definitely an era of > "rock stars" although it was very short (pretty much just the > 60's and 70's - 50's artists were "rock and rollers."). I think > there are certain musicians that you could still call rock stars > today - David Bowie, Steve Tyler, Pete Townsend, Mick Jagger, > Keith Richards, Paul McCartney, Elton John, to name a few. They > came from the right era (which I shall call the "rawk" era, > after the 50's but before the Sex Pistols), they iconified the > rebellion of rock-and-roll, and earned international renown for > it, even if they are or were not liked by everyone. > > I'm just wondering, what do people think of "rock stars"? Do > they exist? Is Bryan one? Or was he? (I personally don't think > so, although he came from that era and was a rocker. Still, he > belongs to another category). > > Ciao, > > Heather > > > ________________________________________________ > Get your own "800" number - Free > Free voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more > http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:31:24 -0800 From: Betsy Fowler Subject: [AVALON] The Only Face and 8 Miles High Has David Mock received the master copy of these delectables so that US Avalonians can get their bids in? The Martinot has been tantalizing us, just to keep hope alive: >>> "...the live version [of "Oh Yeah"] currently doing the rounds on the "8 Miles High" bootleg.." >>> Let's have some news! Betsy - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:57:11 -0500 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Songs on Viva - -----Original Message----- From: Noam Bronstein To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Monday, February 21, 2000 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Songs on Viva >It truly is a wonder Viva! sounds like shit, considering the cast of engineers >who get credit on it. But I agree it does. I've accepted it as a 'grunge' >album, if you play it loud enough, you can enjoy it (maybe that's the sound they >were going for??). My latest attempt to get a better sounding copy led me to >buy a Greek import with low stamper numbers in the dead wax - indicating a first >or second pressing. That one sounds like crap too. > >The likely reason is just the horrible production values on most 70's releases. >This is well documented and it will forever be an embarassment (I hope) to the >recording industry, after the sonic delights that labels like Decca and Mercury >were able to achieve with so many jazz and classical releases in the late 50s >and throughout the 60s. Some of the most horrendous tricks the record industry used in the early eighties to get everyone to cross over to CDs was in the re-processing of used vinyl. They set the melting temperature lower to reduce the chance of a complete melt which riddled the pressing with sharp shards of vinyl that would wear the stylist down as well as skip it all over the album and when that wan`t enough, they stopped taking the paper labels off the record before they were processed. Then they fed us, "See how crappy vinyl is? CDs are the wave of the future. You can play Frisbee with it on the beach in the morning, leave it in your hot car in the afternoon then toss it in your player and rock all night and they will cost less than dirt!" Sheesh! What a load of crap. The public was suckered in to CDs because the record industry knew (or thought) they could control bootlegging and encode them with anti-copying crap, none of which worked. Then they put out the call that every recording ever made, from Edison`s wax cylinders to now would have to be converted to CD. People spent billions of dollars building CD pressing plants waiting for this huge deluge of orders to come their way...but it never happened. There isn`t a CD plant in the world that operates over 60% of their capacity. Not one! And they`re the lucky ones. Most probably don`t do 50%. The record companies then pitted all of these CD plants against each other in bidding wars which resulted in the CDs being pressed at a near loss for the plants, but huge profits for the record companies who never even passed the savings onto the public. Is it any wonder that the plants in Europe will press CDs for anyone...no questions asked? Cheap low-rent bastards! > (snip) > >I believe that the decision to undersell Roxy was a terrible one in hindsight. >Those other artists (<-?) Gene mentioned sold their millions but really didn't >have any staying power. RM by comparison had another ten or fifteen years of >creative juice still left in them.. anyway, why worry now, it's probably better >off this way. Well, Kiss is now doing their farewell tour some 25 years later, Lynyrd Skynyrd died in a plane crash (as far as I`m concerned, anyway) but Frampton did go the way of the dinosaur. But I get and agree with your point. However, everyone knows these bands and virtually no one knows Roxy. My point was that a decent live album could have given them the edge to at least compete as a player in the American market. Of all of my favorite bands, I`ve had more success in turning people on to Roxy than any other band that I was into and the reaction is always the same: "Why haven`t I heard of them before?" Gene - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:06:43 -0500 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Songs on Viva-(Warning! Long and Boring!) - -----Original Message----- From: Heather James To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Monday, February 21, 2000 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [AVALON] Songs on Viva > Not all 70s albums "sounded like shit" - go back and take a listen to >Life In the Air Age, the Be-bop Deluxe Live album of 1976-77 - and there are >MANY other albums that back that up ... How about USA for King Crimson? I have Life In The Air Age also and agree it sounds good. However, these are Euro pressings on virgin vinyl, something the record industry refused to spring for with their American pressings. Columbia records was the only company in America with their own pressing plant and they produced a better quality pressing. All others, including the bootleggers, used private owned pressing plants. (The reason the major bootleggers like TMQ were never busted was because they found a pressing plant that wasn`t listed in the phone book (and didn`t ask questions....a buck was a buck). Therefore, when the law made the rounds checking for plants pressing boots, naturally, they only hit the ones in the phone book.) To get their message across their pressing were top quality, TMQ had their LPs pressed in colored vinyl until the '74 oil crisis made it too expensive, then finally near impossible to get. But more importantly, they focused on the sound quality and naturally, they did not encode their LPs with the RIAA Filter. Without getting too technical, this filter is a high-frequency de-emphasis that is normally applied by a phono preamplifier. It smears the high-frequency spikes into rounded thuds when trying to record an LP to purposely degrade the sound quality. Naturally, this extra filler mixed with the music also degraded the sound on the LP....VERMIN! However, today`s music restoration software can undo this filter. (If anyone wants to know how to do it, e-mail me off the list) >My >honest opinion is that the folks responsible for Viva! just put out a poor >recording figuring we'd buy whatever they released - I could get more rude >and say they were too stoned to care - but ... who knows their reason or >their frame of mind ... I would think a stoner would be into high quality sound. There`s no excuse for this kind of poor quality......uncaring scum. > But - it was impossible to get a clean pressing of "Blonde on Blonde", for >instance - so Viva's not the only offender ... It`s interesting to note that the best quality pressing to come out of America was done by a bootlegger that went by "Rubber Dubber." This guy was a genius and quite a colorful character. Born the son of a Dallas mob boss, he skipped the family business, enlisted in the Navy and worked for Navel Intelligence. Upon his discharge, he was hired on as a roadie for one hit wonders "Paul and Paula." The Paul part of the act found God mid tour and dropped out and "Dubber" took his place for the rest of the tour with no one the wiser. By this time he was obsessed with bootlegs and decided to get in on it himself. He bought a used rubber swim fin press and converted it to press LPs and found he was able to produce flawless pressings. He then set out to record concerts himself. (Thus the name Rubber Dubber) The biggest problem facing concert tapers was smuggling the recorders into the concerts and that had to rely on arenas (like the LA Forum) with lax security. Dubber over came this by attaching a tiny FM transmitter to a powerful mic and broadcasted the show to a van in the parking lot fitted with a small recording studio. He was able to have master discs made through a friend he made while on tour who worked for a well known "Sound Lab" known and respected for their high "Fidelity" mastering who also worked on his tapes. The result was a pressing and sound quality superior to anything on the market. He would send copies of this bootlegs not only to major music magazines to review, but to the record labels of the bands he was bootlegging as well. Talk about balls! Upon getting one of his bootlegs in the mail, some top brass at Atlantic Records were so impressed that they tried to arrange a meeting with him to buy his tapes and learn his pressing secrets. (This meeting never happened, though). He also did interviews for Rolling Stone and several LA area radio stations. He gave up bootlegging in the early '80`s but sadly, got into some trouble which resulted in a death. He`s now serving a life sentence in New Mexico. Gene - -------------------- To disentangle yourself from these bickering numbnuts, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V5 #70 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest