From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V4 #239 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Wednesday, August 11 1999 Volume 04 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating ["H.R.Stil" ] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [JFROXY@aol.com] [AVALON] As time goes by, Bogie etc. ["Vicente Dobroruka" ] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [Colleen Matan ] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [Colleen Matan ] [AVALON]MP3/RA ["H.R.Stil" ] Re: [AVALON] Heart still beating (NOT!) [jspellman ] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [JObinv01@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By ["Richard" ] Re: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating ["Decophile" ] Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA ["Tim Kendrick" ] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [ASchulberg@aol.com] Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA [ASchulberg@aol.com] [AVALON] Beck's Back [jas2347@xsite.net] Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By [LizzieJim@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Beck's Back [JObinv01@aol.com] [AVALON] As Time Moves On [JObinv01@aol.com] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:23:56 +0200 From: "H.R.Stil" Subject: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating Decophile wrote: > > I`ve also considered putting together a MP3 database > Personally, I used the Xing format (MusicMatch Jukebox 3: a blind choice) I use MMJ also! > > and was unable to detect any degradation in sound quality. It is very fast > and has a great ripper, but some are adamantly opposed to postings > using this encode because it`s so fast. Hmm in the old days slow recording degraded the quality didn't it? > They feel that if it doesn`t take > an hour per song, it somehow degrades the sound. Whatever! The way I look at > it is this: if superior sound is what you`re looking for, then buy the damn > CD. Right on! The main reason for me to get MP3's is that I can put 150 -200 songs on one CD (I've got two at home, not with Roxy Music songs, one with 148 and one with 193 songs on it) so I suppose I can put the total Roxy Music/ Bryan Ferry collection on two CD-R's on three if I can lay my hands on the rest ( know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge). I'm collecting information on building a more or less portable mp3 player (computer/cd-rom) for in my car. With Roxy Music on one CD and Bryan Ferry on the other I can drive anywhere I like, with only my music in my ears! > > I then started looking into Real Audio. It allows streaming audio which > plays almost immediately and can be easily recorded while playing. Then I > started putting in 65 hours a week at work and never got back to it. > Yep same here, not that I work 65 hours, but with a family of 5 and a car that needs a lot of attention, I do not have as much spare time as I would like. > > Don`t be afraid of offending anyone here. Just call it as you see it. And > you are absolutely right about H.S.B.. It down right sucks. > Phew, I'm not alone on this one! I really feel much better now! Even my 'Real Cool Time' LP has more spirit (and noise)!!!!!! I had a hard time quite a few years ago when someone showed the High Road video to me and at the end asked me if I liked it. I put one finger in my mouth and made a gagging sound, our 'friendship' never was the same again. Go figure. BTW does this mean I'm a total pig and cannot build meaningful relationships because I cannot 'relate' to Roxy Music during that phase? Probably. Oh well, always like Mud anyway (Oh no, now you know, I liked Mud, please don't shoot me!) Well, I'm going to my Musicstore this afternoon, maybe he has got some nice LP/CD/Video lying around. GH/HH/GS Me NoSo - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:36:07 EDT From: JFROXY@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By Ok folks, I think we are getting a bit carried away with the forthcoming BF album, perhaps we should view it more as a curio than an important addition to the Ferry canon. Maybe he has made an agreement with Virgin to release this album as a stop gap until a) he makes his own material, seemingly 2 albums worth, a bit more accessible (in Virgins view) to the public b) he gets the ball rolling with Roxy. In any case I cannot see him straying too far from the originals on this one, no avant garde workouts or "sonic swoops" just a basic approach. As far as his voice goes, it would be great to hear him do a bit of crooning again, a la "Beauty Queen" as opposed to his aesthetic wafting of late, (don't panic Martin) but no matter, the man is back on the scene. JF - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:26:02 -0700 From: "Vicente Dobroruka" Subject: [AVALON] As time goes by, Bogie etc. Dear fellow Avalonians, John O'Brien wrote: "I have a review of the first Roxy album and it mentioned that there is a refrain from As Time Goes By at the end of 2HB (Can anyone confirm this)". That's it - pay attention to a discreet Mackay solo behind the main notes, Bryan singing "Here's looking at you, kid etc.". This is a most original tribute to that biggest actor and masculine icon of the century, Humphrey Bogart - IMHO the greatest influence concerning Bryan's figure and charm. As for the rest, I fully agree with you. Unfortunately the figure of the crooner disappeared (apparently doomed in the damned 60's), and it is quite common to hear these days that artists "cover" (!) each other due to lack of creative powers, What a world we live in. Thanks God Bogie is not here to see that. Be well, Vicente (having just seen The Roaring Twenties, with Bogie and James Cagney, cool) - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:44:54 -0400 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating - -----Original Message----- From: H.R.Stil To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:27 AM Subject: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating >>Decophile wrote: >> Personally, I used the Xing format (MusicMatch Jukebox 3: a blind choice) > >I use MMJ also! I visited the MP3 discussion news group again today and it seems nothing much has changed. MMJ is still seen as bottom of the barrel with the most popular being the command line encoder MP3Enc 3.1 by Opticom. Now, I don`t know about you, but I have no plans to ever go back to archaic DOS programs and if this is the best that`s available, then they can keep it. The reason MMJ is so popular among the mainstream is because it`s simple to the point of being damn near idiot proof and I for the most part can find no problem with the sound it produces. >The main reason for me to get MP3's is that I can put 150 -200 songs >on one CD >(I've got two at home, not with Roxy Music songs, one with 148 and >one with 193 songs on it) so I suppose I can put the total Roxy Music/ Bryan >Ferry >collection on two CD-R's on three if I can lay my hands on the rest ( know what >I mean, >wink wink nudge nudge). This is fine if you`re encoding music you have on hand for your own use, but if you`re going to post it for download, then "If It Takes All Night" will indeed take all night if you`re connection is under 56K. Granted, MP3 compresses the music to a more manageable size, but even a short song averages about 5 MB. When you consider a whole album, you pretty much have to start the downloading just before you go to bed and hope you`re not dumped sometime during the download. I think Real Audio (G2) is the way to go. It compresses the music much better and even if the quality is in the FM broadcast range, I`m sure no one can complain about that and if they do, then like I said before, go out and buy the damn CD. I recently came across a web site with the recently discovered sound board recording of David Bowie`s '72 Cleveland show (The first show of the American tour with an interesting acoustic version of Drive In Saturday, for those interested.) in Real Audio. I recorded the whole thing as a .wav file as it played and I think it sounds just fine. However, like MP3, download speed is everything and streaming Real Audio will only work if your connection is 56K or better. I`m not sure how many people are still using 33.6 or lower connections, but they would be left out in the cold. Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:34:27 +0100 From: "Jason Gibbs" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating > >This is fine if you`re encoding music you have on hand for your own use, but >if you`re going to post it for download, then "If It Takes All Night" will >indeed take all night if you`re connection is under 56K. Granted, MP3 >compresses the music to a more manageable size, but even a short song >averages about 5 MB. When you consider a whole album, you pretty much have >to start the downloading just before you go to bed and hope you`re not >dumped sometime during the download. Huh? Just encode the MP3 at a lower bitrate - it still sounds ***way better*** than Realaudio and the compression at 64bits is amazing. With it I can fit 370+ songs in 680MB. I just wish there was more Roxy material to buy - especially rare recordings and interviews etc. > >I think Real Audio (G2) is the way to go. It compresses the music much >better and even if the quality is in the FM broadcast range, I`m sure no one >can complain about that and if they do, then like I said before, go out and >buy the damn CD. >I recently came across a web site with the recently discovered sound board >recording of David Bowie`s '72 Cleveland show (The first show of the >American tour with an interesting acoustic version of Drive In Saturday, for >those interested.) in Real Audio. I recorded the whole thing as a .wav file >as it played and I think it sounds just fine. >However, like MP3, download speed is everything and streaming Real Audio >will only work if your connection is 56K or better. I`m not sure how many >people are still using 33.6 or lower connections, but they would be left out >in the cold. > Regards Jason (using MP3 since in our software since '96) - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 JObinv01@aol.com wrote: > more than anything else. Bryan is about to stand in the same stage as Crosby, > Sinatra, Fitzgerald etc (The singers singers) Yes, and that's what is so so scary. It's a far cry from fronting a rock group and it's not as easy as it seems. Naturally I hope he's up to the task. > I would like to ask of the negative vibes about ATGB (which I understand and > respect), Is there any list member not going to buy it ??? Of course I'm going to buy it. How else can I annoy people here with any criticisms I might have? Colleen - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:08:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 JFROXY@aol.com wrote: > Ok folks, I think we are getting a bit carried away with the forthcoming BF > album, perhaps we should view it more as a curio than an important addition > to the Ferry canon. Maybe he has made an agreement with Virgin to release > this album as a stop gap until a) he makes his own material, seemingly 2 > albums worth, a bit more accessible (in Virgins view) to the public b) he > gets the ball rolling with Roxy. In any case I cannot see him straying too The reunion is dead, dead, dead, no? As for his being sent back home to rework his own material or to come up with something new which would be acceptable to the masses--heaven forfend. In that case I would hope he takes his stuff to a smaller label instead of creating something for the lowest common denominator. It seems very odd that no one here has not heard anything from this long-in-the-works originals album--on other lists I'm on, bootlegs of this kind of stuff always appear. Is there anyone who has heard it who might like to step forward? I just can't imagine it's so radically different from _Mamouna_. Just as I can't imagine that there is anyone at Virgin who thinks Bryan Ferry can somehow be turned into a cash cow for that label. Colleen (obviously cranky this morning) - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:13:40 +0200 From: "H.R.Stil" Subject: [AVALON]MP3/RA Decophile wrote: > I visited the MP3 discussion news group again today and it seems nothing > much has changed. MMJ is still seen as bottom of the barrel with the most > popular being the command line encoder MP3Enc 3.1 by Opticom. Now, I don`t > know about you, but I have no plans to ever go back to archaic DOS programs > and if this is the best that`s available, then they can keep it. The reason > MMJ is so popular among the mainstream is because it`s simple to the point > of being damn near idiot proof and I for the most part can find no problem > with the sound it produces. > Yes, probably a good reason, foolproof, although I usually get (any) program cracking up under my use! I also use Sonique and winamp3 Sonique just looks great and winamp just is simple. MMJ is a good recorder / db. > > >The main reason for me to get MP3's is that I can put 150 -200 songs > >on one CD..... > > This is fine if you`re encoding music you have on hand for your own use, but > if you`re going to post it for download, then "If It Takes All Night" will > indeed take all night if you`re connection is under 56K. Granted, MP3 > compresses the music to a more manageable size, but even a short song > averages about 5 MB. When you consider a whole album, you pretty much have > to start the downloading just before you go to bed and hope you`re not > dumped sometime during the download. > Again you're right, but isn't posting MP3's illegal? (;-)) Of course I make MP3's only for my own use. Heck, I'm deep into games, but I don't own a CD-recorder, I BUY my own stuff..... So putting the songs on CD's would be for domestic use only (%---------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>) > > I think Real Audio (G2) is the way to go. It compresses the music much > better and even if the quality is in the FM broadcast range, I`m sure no one > can complain about that and if they do, then like I said before, go out and > buy the damn CD. > Yes but that would mean you have to pay for copyright, don't you? > I recently came across a web site with the recently discovered sound board > recording of David Bowie`s '72 Cleveland show (The first show of the > American tour with an interesting acoustic version of Drive In Saturday, for > those interested.) in Real Audio. I recorded the whole thing as a .wav file > as it played and I think it sounds just fine. Oooops bootlegs.... > > However, like MP3, download speed is everything and streaming Real Audio > will only work if your connection is 56K or better. I`m not sure how many > people are still using 33.6 or lower connections, but they would be left out > in the cold. > Yes, they would, but with a cd full of Roxy Music and a simple mp3-player they can use a 486 with a bit soundcard and a 4 speed cd-rom!!!!!!!!! What else do you really need in life? Wouldn't it be great if we bundled all our resources and create the following: - -website with RA - -CDR with MP3 - -DVD-R with video (oh man the possibilities!!!!!!!!!) GH/HH/GS Me NoSo - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:30:16 -0400 From: jspellman Subject: Re: [AVALON] Heart still beating (NOT!) Decophile wrote: > Don`t be afraid of offending anyone here. Just call it as you see it. And > you are absolutely right about H.S.B.. It down right sucks. > I'm offended by people who do like this album. Just kidding. I actually like the later tunes like "My Only Love" and "Avalon" But the older stuff is just silly. To me, this is why the thought of a Roxy reunion is unlikely. "Out of the Blue" without Jobson is always less, like "Editions" w/out Eno. The different lineups meant they never got stale which was great but it also means that maybe no one line up could pull off a reunion tour as proven by HSB. Jim - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:59:00 EDT From: JObinv01@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By In a message dated 10/08/99 16:27:11 GMT, you write: << Is there anyone who has heard it who might like to step forward? >> Usually when someone is in a privelaged position to have access or even possess such things, it's usually under the understanding that it's in total confidence and that this sort of thing going out to bootleg land can usually be traced to the chosen few sources, so I don't think you have much chance of anyone owning up to such treasures, they would have by now if they could. Regards J.O'B' - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:29:57 +0100 From: "Richard" Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By And what makes this morning any different from any other?? Just joking ... honest!! Richard (obviously flippant this evening). - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:51:42 -0400 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating - -----Original Message----- From: Jason Gibbs To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Heart STILL NOT beating > >> >>This is fine if you`re encoding music you have on hand for your own use, but >>if you`re going to post it for download, then "If It Takes All Night" will >>indeed take all night if you`re connection is under 56K. Granted, MP3 >>compresses the music to a more manageable size, but even a short song >>averages about 5 MB. When you consider a whole album, you pretty much have >>to start the downloading just before you go to bed and hope you`re not >>dumped sometime during the download. > >Huh? Just encode the MP3 at a lower bitrate - it still sounds ***way better*** than Realaudio and the compression at 64bits is amazing. With it I can fit 370+ songs in 680MB. Well, I wouldn`t go as far as to say "way better." I`ve heard some MP3 recorded at the lower bitrates that sound awful tinny. This isn`t to say that the same doesn`t happen with Real Audio recorded at a low birate. Here are the web sites of two Bowie Real Audio sites. Try them out for yourself: http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/drongo/45/music.html This one used a lower birate for the recordings and you can definitely tell. The sound is awful...pure garbage...a waste of bandwidth. MP3s recorded at this bitrate will sound just as bad. http://www.creaven.freeserve.co.uk/ The music on this site is recorded at a much higher bitrate and sounds great, even if it`s only FM broadcast quality and a slightly longer wait. MP3s recorded at this bitrate may sound better, but when you consider the ease of recording and the time saved (like, hours), Real Audio is still a much better deal. The chief advantage with Real Audio of course is it`s streaming ability. It`s tried and true. Have you tried streaming MP3? For the life of me I`ve never been able to get it to produce anything more than garbled gibberish after waiting forever for it to load. More than likely it`s user error on my end, but it shouldn`t be this complicated. Until the powers that be get their act together and settle on an agreed upon format and build on it, many people, including myself want nothing to do with it. Real Audio at least improves by leaps and bounds every year and it will even play MP3. My hope is that we can one day encode all of the Roxy bootlegs from our CD/Video trees and post them for everyone to download/record. But it must be cheap, easy, fast and the highest quality possible. Anyone else have an opinion on this? BTW, which MP3 format are you using? Just curious. Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:08:55 -0400 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA - -----Original Message----- From: H.R.Stil To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 11:16 AM Subject: [AVALON]MP3/RA (Snip) >> I recently came across a web site with the recently discovered sound board >> recording of David Bowie`s '72 Cleveland show (The first show of the >> American tour with an interesting acoustic version of Drive In Saturday, for >> those interested.) in Real Audio. I recorded the whole thing as a .wav file >> as it played and I think it sounds just fine. > >Oooops bootlegs.... That`s right. That big bad "B" word. I have no interest in material the record label has released. I mean, I either already own it or never wanted it. My interest in MP3/Real Audio has to do exclusively with bootlegs and sharing them with the members of the mail list. If you, or anyone new to the list, are unaware of our CD/Video tape trees, let me know and I`ll send you information. Cheers. Gene - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:30:35 -0400 From: "Tim Kendrick" Subject: Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA I am not new to the list by any means, but I'm still extremely vague about this CD tree lark. I know it exists, but I have no idea how to go about getting copies of the cds! Tim - -----Original Message----- From: Decophile To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA >-----Original Message----- >From: H.R.Stil >To: avalon@smoe.org >Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 11:16 AM >Subject: [AVALON]MP3/RA > > >(Snip) >>> I recently came across a web site with the recently discovered sound >board >>> recording of David Bowie`s '72 Cleveland show (The first show of the >>> American tour with an interesting acoustic version of Drive In Saturday, >for >>> those interested.) in Real Audio. I recorded the whole thing as a .wav >file >>> as it played and I think it sounds just fine. >> >>Oooops bootlegs.... > >That`s right. That big bad "B" word. I have no interest in material the >record label has released. I mean, I either already own it or never wanted >it. My interest in MP3/Real Audio has to do exclusively with bootlegs and >sharing them with the members of the mail list. If you, or anyone new to the >list, are unaware of our CD/Video tape trees, let me know and I`ll send you >information. >Cheers. > >Gene > > > > > > > >-------------------- >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe avalon > > - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:31:08 EDT From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By In a message dated 08/10/1999 4:13:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JObinv01@aol.com writes: << Usually when someone is in a privelaged position to have access or even possess such things, it's usually under the understanding that it's in total confidence and that this sort of thing going out to bootleg land can usually be traced to the chosen few sources, so I don't think you have much chance of anyone owning up to such treasures, they would have by now if they could. >> Sounds like a much too carefully couched disclaimer to this attorney. But, thanks okay, John, we understand, don't we gang? Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:34:15 EDT From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON]MP3/RA In a message dated 08/10/1999 7:12:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, decophile@pipeline.com writes: << If you, or anyone new to the list, are unaware of our CD/Video tape trees >> Hey, speaking of trees, is it too early to ask what's happening with some of the audio/video projects that were in the works a few weeks back? I know someone (Han?) was away til August 2nd but are things moving toward fruition? Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:05:31 -0500 From: jas2347@xsite.net Subject: [AVALON] Beck's Back Attention guitar fans. Jeff Beck was the muscial guest on Conan O"Brien's show tonight. I found out at the last moment. He BURNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He played a Fender Strat thru a Marshall stack with no pick and no apparent effects to augment his sonic bombast. And he still looks the same. I hoe some of you had a chance to see it. jas - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:06:25 EDT From: LizzieJim@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] As Time Goes By Hi everyone! is the record out yet or does anyone know the street date? And why is everyone complaining he's actually releasing some new stuff . When I see that Barry Manilow and John Tesh are making the rounds again I am just thankful that Bryan is coming out with something and I hope he gets a lot of press for it. Shouldn't Rolling Stone put him on the cover for once? Janeen PS finally eye and eared Psalm. Its great! Love the sour note at the beginning of Psalm itself and Bryan of course in the infamous white dinner jacket which by the way is or one of them at least is at the Chicago Hard Rock cafe. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:24:30 EDT From: JObinv01@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Beck's Back In a message dated 11/08/99 05:57:59 GMT, you write: << Jeff Beck was the muscial guest on Conan O"Brien's show tonight. >> No relation at all, Honest!! John O'Brien - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:25:12 EDT From: JObinv01@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] As Time Moves On The release date for As Time Goes By is now October 11th. (From a good source) J.O'B. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V4 #239 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest