From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V4 #80 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 080 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Song Books [ASchulberg@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Song Books [Daniel Atterbom ] Re: [AVALON] The old sexism chesnut ["Martin Stockman" ] Re: [AVALON] Looks [Amethysts9@aol.com] Re: Re: [AVALON] Song Books [Amethysts9@aol.com] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:36:11 EST From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Song Books In a message dated 99-03-07 18:58:29 EST, you write: << Iman and Jerry Hall were both knockouts in their 20's, but I think Iman is still very beautiful today and Jerry is not so.... >> I don't know. Jerry looked pretty good to me in People magazine a month or so ago. Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:07:05 +0100 From: Daniel Atterbom Subject: Re: [AVALON] Song Books At 20.11 +0100 99-03-05, JObinv01@aol.com wrote: >Do you want to sell or trade this with me. No, I'll xerox it for you, if and when I find it. Daniel Daniel Atterbom *************** "Doesn't every former vice president's daughter show up at the White House to dis her ex-boyfriend with the president?" Lisa DePaulo on Bill Clinton's friend Eleanor Mondale in George Magazine Detta är ett privat och personligt brev, innehållet får inte utan särskilt medgivande publiceras eller på annat sätt spridas vidare. This is a private and personal letter, the content of which is not for publication or re-distribution without my written permission. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:50:05 +0000 From: "Martin Stockman" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The old sexism chesnut >the Sirens were supposed to appease the manly men in the audience just like >the album covers did (in Bryan's mind anyway...). Bryan always felt that >there should be something to look at instead of him (WHY?!). I saw the Sirens a couple of times on that tour and they certainly looked striking in a crazed teutonic way. The notion of the Chanter sisters dressed as futuristic air hostesses struck me then as entirely in keeping with the "Roxy manifesto according to Puxley" on the first album sleeve. ie. Exploiting the juxtaposition between 50's cheescake and comic book sci-fi. (Think of Andy's Rockabilly quiff/attitude but remember how Eddie Riff was wrapped in baco-foil ! Jimmy Dean in a Sci-fi B movie n'est pas ?) And these clashing concepts, no doubt garnered from Ferry's mentor Richard Hamilton and his vision of a future consumer-obsessed society with its roots in post-war PLENTY, were obviously mirrored in the music. The musicians amongst us will confirm that the first two albums were built on 12 bar blues yet rendered interesting by synthesised treatments. In other words Eddie Cochran transported to a world that only Gary Numan ever believed possible, or indeed enviable ! As Puxley writes (in the style of a 50s Hush Hush magazine) "rock n'roll juggernauted into demonic electronic supersonic mo-mo-mentum." The lyrics similarly reflect this fascination with a past/future juxtaposition. The edgy crooner warbles on about pink gins and Casablanca but we are left in no doubt that the man behind Ladytron has a futuristic agenda as well. Whilst I admire the Avalon women for voicing their concerns regarding Bryan's treatment of the fair sex I think that there are some mitigating factors. He has often been cornered by journalists on the issue of sexism in his art, with specific attention paid to the covers. My tract above alludes to his Pop-Art tutorship under Hamilton and how a kind of ad-mans vision of society can be viewed as art. In that context, laden with ironies, the centrefold, whether draped across a new car or deshabille on a record sleeve, reflects a corrupt, kitsch, salesman's world. Undoubtedly Ferry preferred the look of beautiful women to, say, Campbell's soup tins, to express this pop-art vision in his work. I can confirm, however, that as an averagely traumatised pubescent around the time of the first Roxy Music album release, the sleeve wasn't really a turn on. Most 14 year-olds can barely stand up if anything vaguely tittilating arrives within their vision. But I, and my spotty classroom clique of Roxy fans - we thought there were only 3 of us in the world (a bit like now !!) - hooked into how avante garde it all was and barely mentioned Kari-Ann's charms. Puxley's sleeve-notes assured us that Pop music could be glamourous, arty and, why not, sexy. Subsequent covers were studied for their symbols / references.....(How many of you recall the patently absurd whisper that went around the London music press that the Country Life girls were in fact Bryan and Andy, heads transposed on bodies of course. It was the Roxy equivalent of "Paul is Dead," our own grassy knoll. And we believed it for a couple of weeks.) We all understood that the cover girl ethic wasn't about dehumanising women but about celebrating some cosmetic, late 20th Century vision of beauty. A constant mepaphor employed throughout Ferry's work is how love somehow subjugates the smitten. The title Slave To Love says it all. In this sense the cover girl, the muse, becomes the oppressor. The one who holds the cards. We, the obsessed, are emasculated. The references are persistently reworked. Whether its an inflatable doll or a Beauty Queen the resultant infatuation enslaves us. When she walks in the room we are left scrunching a paper cup, mumbling our excuses. Even when we find some sort of happiness (Lucy / Avalon) there is still the Bete Noire (Jerry) lurking in the zig-zag shadows. If you're in any doubt about this theme check out Bry's role as Chaffeur to Amanda Lear's dominatrix and all that serpent imagery on Bride.... Well, as they say, I should attend to my non-Avalonion life now. Should make the cognascenti think. Regards all, Martini - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:50:11 EST From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] The old sexism chesnut In a message dated 99-03-08 10:50:14 EST, you write: << I saw the Sirens a couple of times on that tour and they certainly looked striking in a crazed teutonic way. The notion of the Chanter sisters dressed as futuristic air hostesses struck me then as entirely in keeping with the "Roxy manifesto according to Puxley" on the first album sleeve. ie. Exploiting the juxtaposition between 50's cheescake and comic book sci-fi. (Think of Andy's Rockabilly quiff/attitude but remember how Eddie Riff was wrapped in baco-foil ! Jimmy Dean in a Sci-fi B movie n'est pas ?) And these clashing concepts, no doubt garnered from Ferry's mentor Richard Hamilton and his vision of a future consumer-obsessed society with its roots in post-war PLENTY, were obviously mirrored in the music. The musicians amongst us will confirm that the first two albums were built on 12 bar blues yet rendered interesting by synthesised treatments. In other words Eddie Cochran transported to a world that only Gary Numan ever believed possible, or indeed enviable ! As Puxley writes (in the style of a 50s Hush Hush magazine) "rock n'roll juggernauted into demonic electronic supersonic mo-mo-mentum." The lyrics similarly reflect this fascination with a past/future juxtaposition. The edgy crooner warbles on about pink gins and Casablanca but we are left in no doubt that the man behind Ladytron has a futuristic agenda as well. Whilst I admire the Avalon women for voicing their concerns regarding Bryan's treatment of the fair sex I think that there are some mitigating factors. He has often been cornered by journalists on the issue of sexism in his art, with specific attention paid to the covers. My tract above alludes to his Pop-Art tutorship under Hamilton and how a kind of ad-mans vision of society can be viewed as art. In that context, laden with ironies, the centrefold, whether draped across a new car or deshabille on a record sleeve, reflects a corrupt, kitsch, salesman's world. Undoubtedly Ferry preferred the look of beautiful women to, say, Campbell's soup tins, to express this pop-art vision in his work. I can confirm, however, that as an averagely traumatised pubescent around the time of the first Roxy Music album release, the sleeve wasn't really a turn on. Most 14 year-olds can barely stand up if anything vaguely tittilating arrives within their vision. But I, and my spotty classroom clique of Roxy fans - we thought there were only 3 of us in the world (a bit like now !!) - hooked into how avante garde it all was and barely mentioned Kari-Ann's charms. Puxley's sleeve-notes assured us that Pop music could be glamourous, arty and, why not, sexy. Subsequent covers were studied for their symbols / references.....(How many of you recall the patently absurd whisper that went around the London music press that the Country Life girls were in fact Bryan and Andy, heads transposed on bodies of course. It was the Roxy equivalent of "Paul is Dead," our own grassy knoll. And we believed it for a couple of weeks.) We all understood that the cover girl ethic wasn't about dehumanising women but about celebrating some cosmetic, late 20th Century vision of beauty. A constant mepaphor employed throughout Ferry's work is how love somehow subjugates the smitten. The title Slave To Love says it all. In this sense the cover girl, the muse, becomes the oppressor. The one who holds the cards. We, the obsessed, are emasculated. The references are persistently reworked. Whether its an inflatable doll or a Beauty Queen the resultant infatuation enslaves us. When she walks in the room we are left scrunching a paper cup, mumbling our excuses. Even when we find some sort of happiness (Lucy / Avalon) there is still the Bete Noire (Jerry) lurking in the zig-zag shadows. If you're in any doubt about this theme check out Bry's role as Chaffeur to Amanda Lear's dominatrix and all that serpent imagery on Bride.... >> Brilliant and well-written, Martin. Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:01:18 -0500 From: "tfagan" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The old sexism chesnut yes... I'm not opposed to women on the LP covers, dressed or un- ... but on the covers and in the videos, the women didn't do much for ME! seemed like Bryan sold himself a little short if he reckoned that looking at him wouldn't be enough. he probably made the covers and videos for himself to look at. I don't think he played the sex card right -- at all!! re: the Sirens -- they would have helped immeasurably if the would have just walked around in the background like Vanna!! my only beef with them is that they couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. - --TriTri PS one of the methods one can determine a Roxy fan... he/she can define cognoscenti! - -----Original Message---- From: Martin Stockman > >>the Sirens were supposed to appease the manly men in the audience just like >>the album covers did (in Bryan's mind anyway...). Bryan always felt that >>there should be something to look at instead of him (WHY?!). > >I saw the Sirens a couple of times on that tour and they certainly looked >striking in a crazed teutonic way. > >Martini - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:39:22 EST From: Amethysts9@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Looks In a message dated 3/5/99 8:59:50 PM, you wrote: <> Must I look at Keith? Just the thought makes my skin crawl. I would much rather see Bryan as he appeared in "Angel Eyes," "Jealous Guy," (swooning just thinking of that one), "Same Old Scene," "Slave to Love." (I'm pretty easy to please...as far as BF goes.) >Ferry was never better looking than he was in 1985 (Ladies??).< I think he still looks gorgeous. Just one look in those stunning blue eyes and I'm still mesmerized. Anne - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:51:19 EST From: Amethysts9@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [AVALON] Song Books In a message dated 3/8/99 7:39:04 AM, you wrote: <<<< Iman and Jerry Hall were both knockouts in their 20's, but I think Iman is still very beautiful today and Jerry is not so.... >>>> I think Jerry is entitled to look a little "tired" after having to put up with Mick all these years. It's possible the stress is just catching up with her. Anne - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V4 #80 *************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest