From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V3 #250 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, October 13 1998 Volume 03 : Number 250 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [AVALON] Deodato, "Mamouna" and reunions [erik simpson ] [AVALON] Re: Latest News [Richard Evans ] Re: FW: [AVALON] Tick tick tock, and time will tell [ASchulberg@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] Deodato, "Mamouna" and reunions [Will ] [AVALON] time is money [Bahi Para ] Re: [AVALON] time is money ["Victor Hastings" ] To leave the list, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:58:34 -0700 From: erik simpson Subject: [AVALON] Deodato, "Mamouna" and reunions you wrote: >i was just pokin' fun at the guy. i have no idea who he was or what became >of him, but i remember mentioning him to my music teacher (a really cool >college age clarinetist) and she made a yucky face and said 'he's _so_ >commercial.' > >and so he was. but i wish i had thought of doing what he did! > >at roughly the same time as deodato another 'artist' released disco versions >of beethoven's fifth and rimsky-korsakov's 'flight of the bumblebee' that >got considerable airplay too. deodato was a trailblazer! Just for a more current perspective on E. Deodato, he did some string orchestrations and arrangements for Bjorks last cd "Homogenic", which meshed quite well with the "techno"-ish (I use the term very generally) keyboards and drum programs. Not that I was a big fan of his previous work (I wasn't), but the stuff with Bjork is very nice indeed. Also, I think the current attacks on "Mamouna" are totally off base. Of course there are always going to be variables regarding musical taste, but when you write work of this caliber off as somehow being "bad", or a "failure" due to a lack of imagination or inspiration or hard work, I gotta disagree. For me it's the culmination of his solo career. It's dense, hallucinatory and difficult. If it hadn't been for the more immediate rewards of "Mamouna", "39 Steps" or "Chain Reaction", I might not have made the effort, but I'm glad I did. More than most cds it functions as a whole rather than a collection of songs. The mood, the overall tone are incredibly consistent from beginning to end and the arrangements and mixes (and what a bitch this must have been to mix, and much more than most run-of-the-mill albums, the mixes are a crucial part of the overall sound) are incredibly subtle with instruments coming to the fore and receding according to each numbers own internal logic. More than any of his other solo works, I see this one in particular as a work of art rather than "product". I've said all this before, but it's been awhile, and maybe the point needs making again. (Obviously, I thought so.) Maybe it depends on which side of the art vs entertainment/commerce debate you fall on. My prejudices are obvious. But I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see a new Bryan Ferry alum than a Roxy reunion. Firstly because I want to see where he would go from here (meaning "Mamouna"), and secondly (and probably primarily) because these reunions have such an INCREDIBLY poor track record. Sometimes it's just better to let something rest in pieces than to soil the memory with an ill-advised reunion, which almost always seems to financially motivated (which is almost always the wrong reason to get back together, speaking from a strictly musical standpoint). I will certainly be more receptive if they actually go into the studio and try to come up with a new album (or 2!) rather than just do a "greatest hits" tour (which is why the Velvet Underground reunion was such a dismal failure. I mean the live album was ok, but there was a distinct lack of new material, and I already have the definitive versions of all the old material already. And now Sterling is dead and there will never be an opportunity to get it right, and I blame Lou for the failure of the whole thing (based on what I've read). Given how important the VU were to me, I suspect I might have been much happier, had I been left wondering what they could have done if they had gotten back together, rather than have been presented with the disappointing reality). Reunions that were musically successful (in my opinion); Japan-the Rain Tree Crow cd was excellent and there was no greatest hits tour and before the album was finished, they weren't talking to each other again. David Sylvian had hijacked the tapes and locked the rest of the band out. Short, not-so-sweet, but the results were excellent. Pere Ubu-they have actually lasted longer the second time around, although the only consistent "original" member is David Thomas. Gang of 4-this might be sacriliege to some, but I really enjoyed ""Mall" and "Shrinkwrap". Of course with only 2 of the original 4 actually involved this raises the question of what constitutes a "reunion". Do you have to have everyone? Or almost everyone? Or do you just need the "crucial" members? and who gets to decide what constitutes "crucial"? Or is it just whomever can manage to get along? Elvis Costello and the Atractions-I didn't care much for "Brutal Youth" (but it wasn't technically billed as Costello and the Attractions either), but "All This Useless Beauty" was good enough to make wish they had kept it going. Even with all the different formats Costello presents himself in, the Attractions always complement him the best, in my opinion. Before anyone brings up King Crimson, I would have to say that they tend to "reconvene" rather than have "reunions". If Fripp got John Wetton and David Cross together with himself and Bill Bruford, well, that would be different. Also kind of unlikely, I imagine. I am sure someone can come up with some others, probably some I would disagree with regarding the degree of their success, and there doesn't see to be any point in detailing failed reunions, so I will just say, if Roxy get back together, here's hoping they do it for the proper motivations, and if they don't, here's hoping they transcend that, get back in the studio and come up with some stunning new material anyway, Long-winded as usual, but, hey, I haven't posted much for quite some time. Bye; Erik S - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:48:20 EDT From: Amethysts9@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: [AVALON] Tick tick tock, and time will tell In a message dated 10/11/98 7:27:22 PM, you wrote: <<- None of the former Beatles could get a hit record to save their lives, but hype up a recording that includes JL, and voila! Three #1 albums. >> So true. Remember what 'flops' "Instant Karma," "Imagine," "Whatever Gets You Through the Night," "Starting Over," "My Sweet Lord," "It Don't Come Easy," "Back Off Boogaloo," "Live and Let Die," and "Band on the Run," were (just to name a few)? ...but an RM reunion will certainly be as exciting press-wise as The Eagles or Fleetwood Mac. ... RM never generated the amount of American press The Eagles or Fleetwood Mac did. I don't have much hope that a reunion would suddenly inspire good taste among Amer. press. And would it be so bad if they did a concert via VH1 like FM did that got them loads of attention? It would be wonderful if they were asked to do VH1. However, unless the Powers that Be decide it would be an extremely profitable venture, like the recent Culture Club reunion and follow-up double CD, chances for that are slim, at best. I won't complain if they finally get some overdue recognition.... I agree completely. As for preferring a BF or RM tour, right now I'll take anything. Having seen RM only once in concert and BF 3 times, I definitely prefer Bryan. His shows have a wonderfully dreamy feeling. Just one ladys opinion Anne - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:32:20 PDT From: "anton van lammeren" Subject: [AVALON] Roxy live concert Manifesto Hi, this is my first posting. This weekend i picked up a copy of a Roxy Music live concert of the Manifesto tour. (My first concert was that tour in The Hague, "You might remember, How it used to be...") Totally unexpected I saw it in Free Record Shop in Amsterdam. I barely have had a chance to listen to it, but it sounded genuilely authentic, lots of time in between tracks, and with the good old Paul Thompson on drums, rightfully mentioned by Bryan after Ladytron... Have I missed the release of this CD? (Just reading Avalon for 2 weeks now.) Has anyone suggestions where to get recorded live material of Roxy and ALL of its members in the Netherlands? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:49:58 PDT From: "anton van lammeren" Subject: Re: [AVALON] SNL Where on this planet can SNL be received? I live in Holland. > >Dear Dawn,& >Y'all, >Bryan will be on SNL again Nov 11 3.00 pm Dawn get that VCR ready and >what ever you need for an enjoyable afternoon Rexy > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:09:09 +0100 From: Richard Evans Subject: [AVALON] Re: Latest News Hi All First posting for a long while. I just wanted to know the latest on the rumoured Roxy re-union and BF's 'abandoned' album. Can someone give me an up to date situation please. The Velvet Goldmine soundtrack is great and the band to very good versions of the Roxy songs. Fave so far is 2HB. Thanks Richard - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:19:18 EDT From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: [AVALON] Tick tick tock, and time will tell In a message dated 98-10-11 04:32:34 EDT, you write: << mentioned the recent events to someone the other day and she asked me a very pertinent question: why might a RM reunion be any more successful than further BF material? If BF material is not massively successful now why should a very similar thing produce different results? Neither will be popular with the teenage/Smash Hits/TOTP market in any case. Food for thought... >> If they timed it right and "The Velvet Goldmine" creates a stir that could ride the next big nostalgia wave. Arnie - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:36:25 -0500 From: Will Subject: Re: [AVALON] Deodato, "Mamouna" and reunions erik simpson wrote: > you wrote: > > >i was just pokin' fun at the guy. i have no idea who he was or what became > >of him, but i remember mentioning him to my music teacher (a really cool > >college age clarinetist) and she made a yucky face and said 'he's _so_ > >commercial.' > > > >and so he was. but i wish i had thought of doing what he did! > > > >at roughly the same time as deodato another 'artist' released disco versions > >of beethoven's fifth and rimsky-korsakov's 'flight of the bumblebee' that > >got considerable airplay too. deodato was a trailblazer! > > Just for a more current perspective on E. Deodato, he did some string > orchestrations and arrangements for Bjorks last cd "Homogenic", which meshed > quite well with the "techno"-ish (I use the term very generally) keyboards > and drum programs. Not that I was a big fan of his previous work (I wasn't), > but the stuff with Bjork is very nice indeed. > > Also, I think the current attacks on "Mamouna" are totally off base. Of > course there are always going to be variables regarding musical taste, but > when you write work of this caliber off as somehow being "bad", or a > "failure" due to a lack of imagination or inspiration or hard work, I gotta > disagree. > > For me it's the culmination of his solo career. It's dense, hallucinatory > and difficult. If it hadn't been for the more immediate rewards of > "Mamouna", "39 Steps" or "Chain Reaction", I might not have made the effort, > but I'm glad I did. More than most cds it functions as a whole rather than a > collection of songs. The mood, the overall tone are incredibly consistent > from beginning to end and the arrangements and mixes (and what a bitch this > must have been to mix, and much more than most run-of-the-mill albums, the > mixes are a crucial part of the overall sound) are incredibly subtle with > instruments coming to the fore and receding according to each numbers own > internal logic. More than any of his other solo works, I see this one in > particular as a work of art rather than "product". I've said all this > before, but it's been awhile, and maybe the point needs making again. > (Obviously, I thought so.) Maybe it depends on which side of the art vs > entertainment/commerce debate you fall on. My prejudices are obvious. > > But I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see a new Bryan Ferry alum than a Roxy > reunion. Firstly because I want to see where he would go from here > > Bye; > > Erik S > > > I gotta say I'm with you on this one, you are right on. Mamouna is where the > road ended up leading to, confirming for me that Mr. Ferry is "an excellent > driver". It blows me away every time I listen to it. He has my vote of > confidence. Didn't I go off on a Product/art tyrade not too long ago? Will - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:50:57 +0200 From: Bahi Para Subject: [AVALON] time is money Michale Hillman wrote: > I mentioned the recent events to someone the other day and she asked me a > very pertinent question: why might a RM reunion be any more successful > than further BF material? If BF material is not massively successful now > why should a very similar thing produce different results? Audience perception. Same thing happened with Jagger vs the Stones and happens with almost all solo singers outside the bands that made them famous. If Bryan got Phil and Andy to play a few tracks on his current unreleased album, mixed those tracks to inaudible levels, and released the album under the Roxy Music name, its sales would easlily outpace those of any Bryan Ferry album. Sad, but true. (Not that he'd do anything like that, of course...) It's funny to be reminded of Ferry's claim (in the tour booklet notes that were posted here the other day) that Phil, Andy, and Brian played on 'Wildcat Days' - the Mamouna sleevenotes don't mention Manzanera on this track. Politely mixed out, I guess. ('I can't hear myself,' he claimed after the album's release.) Erik Simpson is one of the most persuasive of literate music addicts, whoever he's championing - Loop Guru to Bryan Ferry, Jon Hassell to Scott Walker, Massive Attack to Lou Reed. Welcome back, Erik. I was just glancing through some of the last few months of Avalon posts. What a great list this is, from deadly serious to totally scathing - Will's posts should be in national print somewhere - funniest stuff I've read ages. And a real Ferry fan, to boot. And Arnie's legal mind, questioning everything ('Everyone seems to have picked up something that I missed that hints that there's a completed album there. Where'd that come from?') Shame to have lost the Vapor, though - where are you, JV? Bahi - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:10:00 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] time is money - -----Original Message----- From: Bahi Para To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 4:52 PM Subject: [AVALON] time is money (snip) >Audience perception. Same thing happened with Jagger vs the Stones and >happens with almost all solo singers outside the bands that made them >famous. If Bryan got Phil and Andy to play a few tracks on his current >unreleased album, mixed those tracks to inaudible levels, and released the >album under the Roxy Music name, its sales would easlily outpace those of >any Bryan Ferry album. Sad, but true. (Not that he'd do anything like that, >of course...) ferry said as much after the commercial failure of 'bride stripped bare' (which i like, a lot). he claimed that if he had 'made it under the roxy banner' it would have sold more. (from an old trouser press interview.) i don't know if he meant that he could have simply released the album under the roxy music name -- even though it had no roxy musicians to speak of -- or if he wished he had used m&m in the studio. i could envision 'mamouna' as a roxy album. not so with 'bride,' which makes very good use of the l.a. session musicians that accompanied ferry to switzerland. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:04:25 -0700 (PDT) From: jon jepson Subject: Re: FW: [AVALON] Tick tick tock, and time will tell - ---Amethysts9@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/11/98 7:27:22 PM, you wrote: > > <<- None of the former Beatles could get a hit record to save their > lives, but hype up a recording that includes JL, and voila! Three #1 > albums. >> > > So true. Remember what 'flops' "Instant Karma," "Imagine," "Whatever Gets > You Through the Night," "Starting Over," "My Sweet Lord," "It Don't Come > Easy," "Back Off Boogaloo," "Live and Let Die," and "Band on the Run," were > (just to name a few)? > Let's split hairs! Obviously, I have to be more specific. I MEANT, former Beatles hits within the last, say 10 years? Come on, Anne! fabtrick _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT) From: jon jepson Subject: Re: [AVALON] Deodato, "Mamouna" and reunions - ---erik simpson wrote: > Japan-the Rain Tree Crow cd was excellent Ghastly. > Elvis Costello and the Atractions-I didn't care much for "Brutal Youth" Loved it! > "All This Useless Beauty" was good enough to make wish they had kept it > going. Hard to get into. > fabtrick _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:52:20 -0700 From: Rex Estorffe Subject: Re: [AVALON] SNL anton van lammeren wrote: > > Where on this planet can SNL be received? I live in Holland. > > > > >Dear Dawn,& > >Y'all, > >Bryan will be on SNL again Nov 11 3.00 pm Dawn get that VCR ready and > >what ever you need for an enjoyable afternoon Rexy > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -------------------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon Only in AMERICA! so it seems come visit its fun, i went to holland and some idiot stole my car radio while parked in amsterdam completly missing $4000.00 cash under my driver side floor mat i hope he reads this he must of been leaning on it while stealing the radio.SNL NOV 11 BF - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V3 #250 **************************** ======================================================================== For further info, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info avalon-digest