From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V3 #180 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 180 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [jspellma@techadvisers.com] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [ASchulberg@aol.com] [AVALON] Website? [sogno@concentric.net] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [vandyne.4@osu.edu (Bob VanDyne)] RE: [AVALON] Show us the money ["S.J.Batie" ] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players ["Decophile" ] Re: [AVALON] Website? ["Decophile" ] Re: [AVALON] Website? [sogno@concentric.net] Re: [AVALON] Website? [Bahi Para ] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [Bahi Para ] Re: [AVALON] Website? [sogno@concentric.net] Re: [AVALON] Website? [Pasi Toivo ] RE: [AVALON] Show us the money [Heather Marie Propes ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money [HipChip ] Re: [AVALON] The Bryan's English ["Michael Hillman" ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money ["Decophile" ] Re: [AVALON] Website? ["Brian L. Folks" ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money [HipChip ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money [Heather Marie Propes ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dav=ECd?= ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:04:02 -0400 From: jspellma@techadvisers.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players >Sal Maida played with Roxy in the 1976 Siren tour - I saw him in LA. > >That`s interesting. The Viva! album was cut from shows performed in '74/'75 >with Maida appearing some time then. Now on the '76 leg of the tour also? It >seems like an awful lot of unnecessary work trying to juggle bass players >from show to show while trying to maintain sanity among the rest of the >entourage, not to mention the other problems involved with a two year tour. >Sheesh! I remember never getting more than 3 days into a family vacation >before the threats of my being abandoned along some wilderness highway >started to fly. Two years on the road together? Ha! Gene If I recall "Viva!" was from 3 different shows yet had 4 bass players (???). On "Champaign & Novocain" on the two live tracks from 73' it says something like John Gustafson - Bass (we think). The video version of these tunes "Editions of You" and "Song for Europe" made it on the "Recall" video, so whoever that guy was. Who was that? It was almost like Spinal Tap and their drummers. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:02:45 EDT From: ASchulberg@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players << they didn't want to make the slices of the pizza pie smaller than they were. the bassists were all hired hands; i think even eddie "better get a job, son" was never allowed to join. >> I thought that Gary Tibbs was made a full member of the band. And I'd never heard any intimation that Eddie wasn't a full member. He certainly was credited as if he were; pictures on the sleeves, large type credits, no designation as "guest artist" or somesuch. Arnie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:16:52 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: [AVALON] Website? Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? Really great graphic, but how long has Coming Soon been there? Is this a sign of a renunion? A Ferry album? Any info would be greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:16:47 -0400 (EDT) From: vandyne.4@osu.edu (Bob VanDyne) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players > > >If I recall "Viva!" was from 3 different shows yet had 4 bass players >(???). Maybe there was some studio overdubbing on Viva!, that could account for the fourth bassist. By the way, I assume that it's the same John Gustafson that sings on the original recording of "Jesus Christ Superstar", in the role of Simon the Zealot, anybody know? Neil Hubbard and Alan Spenner are on that record too. Columbus Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:19:16 +0100 From: "S.J.Batie" Subject: RE: [AVALON] Show us the money > -----Original Message----- > From: Bahi Para [SMTP:bahi@macnet.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 11:22 PM > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money > > Colleen Matlan wrote: > > >I think Ferry's representation of wealth is imitative, grasping > >AND sincere, with a veneer of irony to make it palatable to himself > and > >others. > > Irony: a tricky thing. Those record covers, the "dreamhome" lyric, the > magazine photo-shoots. They must have been *so* ironic and > sophisticated at > the time. And then the next thing you know... > > >The cover of the _Another Time, Another Place_ features the pool > photo. > >The other images may not come from album covers per se, but they are > not > >off the mark. > > Yep. Moustachioed Lothario: see the cover of the "Extended Play" EP > (picked > up a half-trashed copy a few years back for 50p). Also, one of the > vids of > the time. "You Go to My Head", maybe. It's on the "Best Of" > collection, > whatever it's called. [Steve] Remind me of the sleeve on this. I had it, but it has well since disappeared. Was it the single sleeve from 'The In Crowd' that had a shot of him swimming ???? > Heather wrote: > > >> I think that is true of every British person, at least a > fascination with > >> the Eaton crowd. Their rigid class structure, which manifests > itself down > >> to the level of dialect, guarantees it. Look at D.H. Lawrence! > > If you believe that, you've spent far too little time in the UK. Only > one > of the Brits I met during my 26 years there displayed *any* fasination > whatsoever with Eaton, and he's a chronic liar, now on lithium > treatment. > I'm not saying more people like that don't exist, but let's keep a > sense of > balance. (Try more Ian MacEwan, more Will Self, more Martin Amis and > much > less D H Lawrence.) > > B > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:26:53 -0000 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players - -----Original Message----- From: ASchulberg@aol.com To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players > ><< they didn't want to make the slices of the pizza pie smaller than > they were. the bassists were all hired hands; i think even eddie "better get > a job, son" was never allowed to join. >> I`m not sure that was the case. Remember, in the first leg of the Siren tour, the Siren back up singers accompanied them but, from what I understand, were later dropped due to some experiencing problems with flying or something like that. > >I thought that Gary Tibbs was made a full member of the band. And I'd never >heard any intimation that Eddie wasn't a full member. He certainly was >credited as if he were; pictures on the sleeves, large type credits, no >designation as "guest artist" or somesuch. > >Arnie I`d have to agree. Eddie was too important to the band not to be a full member. IMO, losing him stripped Roxy of an important element that`s painfully evident in their later incarnations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:38:54 -0000 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? - -----Original Message----- From: sogno@concentric.net To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 1:19 PM Subject: [AVALON] Website? >Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? >Really great graphic, but how long has Coming Soon been there? Is this >a sign of a renunion? A Ferry album? Any info would be greatly >appreciated. > That is indeed weird. They (whoever they are) are claiming to be "The Official Roxy Music Web Site". I took the liberty of copying the source code for that web page and it reads as follows: Roxy Music - Roxy Music
What's next?
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:54:38 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? I noticed that source code also. Any word on a new Ferry album? Decophile wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: sogno@concentric.net > To: avalon@smoe.org > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 1:19 PM > Subject: [AVALON] Website? > > >Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? > >Really great graphic, but how long has Coming Soon been there? Is this > >a sign of a renunion? A Ferry album? Any info would be greatly > >appreciated. > > > > That is indeed weird. They (whoever they are) are claiming to be "The > Official Roxy Music Web Site". I took the liberty of copying the source code > for that web page and it reads as follows: > > > Roxy Music - Roxy Music > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:39:09 +0100 From: Bahi Para Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? sogno wrote: >Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? Decophile wrote: > Since the Roxy Music LP is now available again on high quality collectors' vinyl, it may be something to do with that. (All the credits relate to the first album.) They've left out Graham Simpson but included Anthony Price and the ever-present Dr Puxley. Suggests that is is somehow official - no Roxy fan would have done that. Whoever put "CDs" in the list of keywords is just being stupid. Doesn't bode well. Perhaps they're gearing up for the 30th anniversary of the First Roxy Music Album in 2002 AD? They'd better get a move on, knowing the Louche One's current sign-off rate. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:47:01 +0100 From: Bahi Para Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players Arnie wrote: >I'd never >heard any intimation that Eddie wasn't a full member. He certainly was >credited as if he were; pictures on the sleeves, large type credits, no >designation as "guest artist" or somesuch. Strange but true - Eddie was never made a full member. He specifically mentions this somewhere (probably Rogan's book: "Roxy Music - Style with Substance"); he also mentioned the fact that he was always photographed to look like a fully paid-up member. I guess if Phil had left, his replacement woud have been on the same terms. Not sure about Tibbs, but I guess the same applied. Perhaps it was just Phil, Andy and Bryan by then. Another vague memory, again probably from Rogan. When Eno left Roxy, he was badly in debt and spent many a magazine interview complaining about it. He has also suggested that Ferry could have been a bit more generous with the royalty payments back then, instead of taking all writer credits, a fifth of the arrangement fees, etc. Eno was apparently living in an unheated London flat while his interviews were putting his picture on the music magazine covers. Jobson might well have been quite glad, at least at the beginning, not to take on this debt, even if it meant less of a share in the profits. Some great stuff on the EnoWeb about these times. Never see it before. EnoWeb has changed a lot. You might have stitch the URL together again if my e-mail client breaks it up - delete the carriage returns. http://www.hyperreal.org/music/artists/brian_eno/interviews/phonr74a.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:13:35 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? Is Louche One Ferry? And how did that name come about? Thanks... Bahi Para wrote: > sogno wrote: > > >Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? > > Decophile wrote: > > > > > Since the Roxy Music LP is now available again on high quality collectors' > vinyl, it may be something to do with that. (All the credits relate to the > first album.) > > They've left out Graham Simpson but included Anthony Price and the > ever-present Dr Puxley. Suggests that is is somehow official - no Roxy fan > would have done that. > > Whoever put "CDs" in the list of keywords is just being stupid. Doesn't > bode well. > > Perhaps they're gearing up for the 30th anniversary of the First Roxy Music > Album in 2002 AD? They'd better get a move on, knowing the Louche One's > current sign-off rate. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:59:16 +0300 From: Pasi Toivo Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? At 09:16 21.7.1998 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know anything about www.roxymusic.co.uk? >Really great graphic, but how long has Coming Soon been there? Is this >a sign of a renunion? A Ferry album? Any info would be greatly >appreciated. > I got that message from Charlie and I think heīll tell more when itīs ready. Pasi >Hi, > >I am working with Phil Manzanera on the official Roxy site - >www.roxymusic.co.uk. Could you kindly put a link to it your site? As >soon as the site's up and running we will be glad to link to you. > >All the best, > > >Charles Tebbetts - ---- ____________________________________ * Heart Still Beating * * Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music web site * * http://www.dlc.fi/~hope * *____________________________________ * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:20:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Heather Marie Propes Subject: RE: [AVALON] Show us the money > > Colleen Matlan wrote: > > > > >I think Ferry's representation of wealth is imitative, grasping > > >AND sincere, with a veneer of irony to make it palatable to himself > > and > > >others. And we're not in disagreement here, Collen. Perhaps you misinterpreted my original posting. I was hinting at the possibility that their "ironic" posturing WAS a veneer, that is what I meant when I said, "there's some truth to every joke." > > > > Irony: a tricky thing. Those record covers, the "dreamhome" lyric, the > > magazine photo-shoots. They must have been *so* ironic and > > sophisticated at > > the time. And then the next thing you know... > > > > >The cover of the _Another Time, Another Place_ features the pool > > photo. > > >The other images may not come from album covers per se, but they are > > not > > >off the mark. > > Interesting point. I'll have to look for that album cover. > > Heather wrote: > > > > >> I think that is true of every British person, at least a > > fascination with > > >> the Eaton crowd. Their rigid class structure, which manifests > > itself down > > >> to the level of dialect, guarantees it. Look at D.H. Lawrence! > > > > If you believe that, you've spent far too little time in the UK. Only > > one > > of the Brits I met during my 26 years there displayed *any* fasination > > whatsoever with Eaton, and he's a chronic liar, now on lithium > > treatment. > > I'm not saying more people like that don't exist, but let's keep a > > sense of > > balance. (Try more Ian MacEwan, more Will Self, more Martin Amis and > > much > > less D H Lawrence.) > > I meant "the Eaton crowd" metaphorically, as a symbol for "the upper classes." You may only have known that one person, but I doubt that that represents an accurate sample. If it did, why would so many British tabloids be doing so well? I'm not saying that tabloids who shamelessly hound celebrities don't have an audience here in America, but they seem to have a particularly large and well developed one in Britain. And again, I think British society is structured to set lass differences into very high relief. Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, but it also keeps people in their place. Ciao, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:34:33 -0500 From: HipChip Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Perhaps you have never visited the UK and toured the whole country, but i have observed many regional dialects which are not indicative of societal position. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:36:27 -0500 From: HipChip Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money > My last message was in response to this parargraph > Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to > the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your > class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, > but it also keeps people in their place. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:49:20 +0300 From: "Michael Hillman" Subject: Re: [AVALON] The Bryan's English Now talking of dialects, as we know Bryan was brought up in Newcastle in Northern England...they have an extremely distinctive accent there indeed...so much so that once I went into a newsagent to buy a paper there and I couldn't figure out the hell what the guy was talking about NOW, Bryan has a considerably more "Queen's English" style accent...you could never tell he was from Newcastle, you'd much more think he was BORN in Fittleworth or somewhere around there!!!...someone asked him once why he cultured a different accent and he said something like that when he was in university a Newcastle accent wouldn't have gone down very well whilst reading Shakespeare Well I have kept my Queen's English despite having moved from London to Jerusalem!!! Michael - ---------- > From: HipChip > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money > Date: 21 July 1998 20.36 > > > > > My last message was in response to this parargraph > > > Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to > > the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your > > class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, > > but it also keeps people in their place. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:49:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Heather Marie Propes Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money > > My last message was in response to this parargraph > > > Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to > > the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your > > class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, > > but it also keeps people in their place. > > I stand corrected. I shouldn't have said "nothing more," but in many cases, dialects in England differenciate between the upper classes who speak "proper" English, and the lower classes who speak "Cockney," and I don't think that this is a contestable point. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:05:31 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money But even in America, certain severe regional accents mark one of deficient education, and therefore, class. I live in Philadelphia, where people are usually too unaware to even consider their accent offensive (and it is). But I do know several New Yorkers who've gone out of their way to take the edge off their regional accent. Heather Marie Propes wrote: > > > > My last message was in response to this parargraph > > > > > Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to > > > the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your > > > class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, > > > but it also keeps people in their place. > > > > I stand corrected. I shouldn't have said "nothing more," but in many > cases, dialects in England differenciate between the upper classes who > speak "proper" English, and the lower classes who speak "Cockney," and I > don't think that this is a contestable point. > > Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:14:01 -0500 From: HipChip Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Heather Marie Propes wrote: > > > > My last message was in response to this parargraph > > > > > Take dialects. Here in America, dialect refers to > > > the region you come from. In Britain, it symbolizes nothing more than your > > > class status. Which, I admit, does make their society very interesting, > > > but it also keeps people in their place. > > > > I stand corrected. I shouldn't have said "nothing more," but in many > cases, dialects in England differenciate between the upper classes who > speak "proper" English, and the lower classes who speak "Cockney," and I > don't think that this is a contestable point. > > Heather Quite correct. I was born to an "upper class" Texas family and was sent off to Finishing Schools during the summer to loose my drawl. I now speak with no accent and actually resort to forcing myself to speak "Texan" when traveling in Europe, especially in Paris where they hate Americans and love Texans. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:11:57 -0000 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money - -----Original Message----- From: sogno@concentric.net To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money >But even in America, certain severe regional accents mark one of deficient >education, and therefore, class. >I live in Philadelphia, where people are usually too unaware to even consider >their accent offensive (and it is). >But I do know several New Yorkers who've gone out of their way to take the edge >off their regional accent. > True. I find that many of the people born and raised here (Smky. Mnt. Natl. Prk.), especially the kids, work hard at losing the hillbilly accent. They`ve been stereotyped as ignorant, inbred ya-hoos for so long, they consider their southern drawl an embarrassment. Gene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:32:20 -0700 From: "Brian L. Folks" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? I did a search of Internic for roxy-music.com and surprise, surprise look who owns the site: Registrant: Phil Manzanera ROXY-MUSIC2-DOM Gallery Music 3 Park Mews 213 Kilburn Lane London, W10 4BQ UK Domain Name: ROXY-MUSIC.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Tebbetts, Charles CT1047 c.tebbetts@WEBSITE.CO.UK +44 1799 550 773 (FAX) +44 1799 550 092 Billing Contact: Tebbetts, Charles CT1047 c.tebbetts@WEBSITE.CO.UK +44 1799 550 773 (FAX) +44 1799 550 092 Record last updated on 26-Jan-98. Record created on 26-Jan-98. Database last updated on 21-Jul-98 05:18:29 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.DRAKKEN.COM 194.216.150.1 NS0.PIPEX.NET 158.43.128.8 For roxymusic.com I found this: Registrant: Roxy Music Shop ROXYMUSIC2-DOM 1008 Licolnway LaPorte, IN 46350 US Domain Name: ROXYMUSIC.COM Administrative Contact: Corley, Diana DC5914 dkokot@WORLDNET.ATT.NET 800-535-7699 (FAX) 219-325-0375 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Global Network Management Center GNMC hostmaster@ATTMAIL.COM 314-519-5708, Fax- 800-795-3510 Billing Contact: Corley, Diana DC5914 dkokot@WORLDNET.ATT.NET 800-535-7699 (FAX) 219-325-0375 Record last updated on 10-Sep-97. Record created on 14-May-97. Database last updated on 21-Jul-98 05:18:29 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: WYCU.WY.BR.NP.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET199.191.128.43 ORCU.OR.BR.NP.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET199.191.129.139 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:39:01 -0500 From: HipChip Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money On another subject, I have just come across a bootleg called First Kiss. All right folks, yea or nay? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:36:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Heather Marie Propes Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Decophile wrote: > >But even in America, certain severe regional accents mark one of deficient > >education, and therefore, class. > >I live in Philadelphia, where people are usually too unaware to even > consider > >their accent offensive (and it is). > >But I do know several New Yorkers who've gone out of their way to take the > edge > >off their regional accent. > > > True. I find that many of the people born and raised here (Smky. Mnt. Natl. > Prk.), especially the kids, work hard at losing the hillbilly accent. > They`ve been stereotyped as ignorant, inbred ya-hoos for so long, they > consider their southern drawl an embarrassment. > Sure, but those regional American accents don't prevent people from achieving fame and sucess in America. Case in point, our president, Bill Clinton, who openly speaks with one of these "shameful" Southern accents. Do you think British would elect a prime minister who spoke Cockney? Yeah, maybe after they appointed Howard Stern (another "crass" American celeb who speaks with a dialect) King. I rest my case. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:53:16 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money I don't know if I was saying you were incorrect. Not being British and only having visited London for 5 days 9 years ago, I have no clue about the workings of British society. But regional accents do prohibit progress in the U.S. Even though they may be "street smart," Clinton and Stern are not typically admired for their cultural depth. However, on top of their obvious difference, I would say the way black Americans speak has really held them back from succeeding. There are already few prominent black American upper-class types, and the few who do ascend the ranks speak rather eloquently and....whitely. Heather Marie Propes wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Decophile wrote: > > > >But even in America, certain severe regional accents mark one of deficient > > >education, and therefore, class. > > >I live in Philadelphia, where people are usually too unaware to even > > consider > > >their accent offensive (and it is). > > >But I do know several New Yorkers who've gone out of their way to take the > > edge > > >off their regional accent. > > > > > True. I find that many of the people born and raised here (Smky. Mnt. Natl. > > Prk.), especially the kids, work hard at losing the hillbilly accent. > > They`ve been stereotyped as ignorant, inbred ya-hoos for so long, they > > consider their southern drawl an embarrassment. > > > Sure, but those regional American accents don't prevent people > from achieving fame and sucess in America. Case in point, our > president, Bill Clinton, who openly speaks with one > of these "shameful" Southern accents. Do you think British would elect > a prime minister who spoke Cockney? Yeah, maybe after they appointed > Howard Stern (another "crass" American celeb who speaks with a dialect) > King. I rest my case. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:07:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Heather Marie Propes Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money > I don't know if I was saying you were incorrect. Not being British and only > having visited London for 5 days 9 years ago, I have no clue about the workings > of British society. But regional accents do prohibit progress in the U.S. Even > though they may be "street smart," Clinton and Stern are not typically admired > for their cultural depth. However, on top of their obvious difference, I would > say the way black Americans speak has really held them back from succeeding. > There are already few prominent black American upper-class types, and the few who > do ascend the ranks speak rather eloquently and....whitely. Well, I think that is more of a race issue than a dialect issue. Besides, there are whole genres of Black literature in America that flaunt the black dialect, look at Toni Morrison or Maya Angelou. I really think that black dialect is considered part of America's cultural legacy. It doesn't prevent people from getting jobs, but the lack of decent educational resources in America's inner cities, created by greedy city government who like to divert tax funds to downtown commerical districts and wealthy white suburbs, does. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:17:16 -0400 (EDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dav=ECd?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money At 02:39 PM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >On another subject, I have just come across a bootleg called First >Kiss. All right folks, yea or nay? OH yes! Cheers, David DavdMock@America.Net CPL593H! -Bryan Ferry, 1972 _______________________________ |Have a look at my web site... | |Shakatak | |Swing Out Sister | |80's UK pop | | (Peter Godwin, Fashion, | | Modern Romance, Belouis Some,| | Strange Advance,Mari Wilson) | |Atlanta Bands | | (Rose Whipperr & Marc Stowe, | | The Brains, Face Of Concern, | | Design, Liking The Idea) | |Lounge Music | |Hamlet & | |Raymond Chandler pages | |An Atlanta Argosy | |Lotsa cool stuff! | - ------------------------------- http://www.america.net/~davdmock/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:21:14 -0500 From: HipChip Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Heather Marie Propes wrote: > Well, I think that is more of a race issue than a dialect issue. Besides, > there are whole genres of Black literature in America that flaunt the > black dialect, look at Toni Morrison or Maya Angelou. I really think > that black dialect is considered part of America's cultural legacy. It > doesn't prevent people from getting jobs, but the lack of decent > educational resources in America's inner cities, created by greedy city > government who like to divert tax funds to downtown commerical districts > and wealthy white suburbs, does. What a crock of shit. Almost 100% of all property taxes collected in cities in America go to the School Districts, and not to the "greedy city government" which are supported by sales taxes. Get your facts stright before you pollute this group with your liberal bullshit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dav=ECd?= Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money At 03:21 PM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Heather Marie Propes wrote: > >> Well, I think that is more of a race issue than a dialect issue. Besides, >> there are whole genres of Black literature in America that flaunt the >> black dialect, look at Toni Morrison or Maya Angelou. I really think >> that black dialect is considered part of America's cultural legacy. It >> doesn't prevent people from getting jobs, but the lack of decent >> educational resources in America's inner cities, created by greedy city >> government who like to divert tax funds to downtown commerical districts >> and wealthy white suburbs, does. > >What a crock of shit. Almost 100% of all property taxes collected in cities in >America go to the School Districts, and not to the "greedy city government" which are >supported by sales taxes. Get your facts stright before you pollute this group with >your liberal bullshit. As someone who has worked in largely black areas teaching reading to teenagers and adults, I can promise you that black schools have nowhere NEAR the quality of education found in largely white schools. The libraries don't have half the books, there are nowhere near as many supplies, you'll find maybe one to two computers per school, as oposed to predominately white schools, which will generally have 20 to 30, and the teachers, while those I met were certainly dedicated and concerned, simply didn't the training and background found in predominately white schools. Believe what you like, but I've been there and I PROMISE you there's a difference. BTW-- why does the word 'liberal' frighten so many people? Cheers, David DavdMock@America.Net CPL593H! -Bryan Ferry, 1972 _______________________________ |Have a look at my web site... | |Shakatak | |Swing Out Sister | |80's UK pop | | (Peter Godwin, Fashion, | | Modern Romance, Belouis Some,| | Strange Advance,Mari Wilson) | |Atlanta Bands | | (Rose Whipperr & Marc Stowe, | | The Brains, Face Of Concern, | | Design, Liking The Idea) | |Lounge Music | |Hamlet & | |Raymond Chandler pages | |An Atlanta Argosy | |Lotsa cool stuff! | - ------------------------------- http://www.america.net/~davdmock/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:38:32 -0700 From: "Vicente Dobroruka" Subject: [AVALON] Re: avalon-digest V3 #179 Bahi Para wrote: > > > [snip] I love Phil Manzanera's > > quirky playing but this version seems to feature his predecessor, > > whose name I've forgotten. (The guy who reportedly got into a > > fight with Paul Thompson before or during the performance for EG > > management.) > >Though I can't comment on whether he was the player, the name would be Davy >O'List. Does anyone know if this Davy O'List the same guy who played with Keith Emerson's Nice in the 60's? Vicente ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:02:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Heather Marie Propes Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Oh my goodness, HipChip, you are scary. http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/asbuch/index.htm#hometop Heather Marie Propes asbuch@midway.uchicago.edu On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, HipChip wrote: > > > Heather Marie Propes wrote: > > > Well, I think that is more of a race issue than a dialect issue. Besides, > > there are whole genres of Black literature in America that flaunt the > > black dialect, look at Toni Morrison or Maya Angelou. I really think > > that black dialect is considered part of America's cultural legacy. It > > doesn't prevent people from getting jobs, but the lack of decent > > educational resources in America's inner cities, created by greedy city > > government who like to divert tax funds to downtown commerical districts > > and wealthy white suburbs, does. > > What a crock of shit. Almost 100% of all property taxes collected in cities in > America go to the School Districts, and not to the "greedy city government" which are > supported by sales taxes. Get your facts stright before you pollute this group with > your liberal bullshit. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:07:11 -0400 From: sogno@concentric.net Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Uh...I was saying that despite the obvious difference (racism based on skin color) that the way black people speak has a lot to do with where they land in white (middle-to-upper class) America. And isn't a Cockney dialect considered part of Britain's cultural legacy? Aren't there plenty of writers who employ that less so-called "high-brow" dialects regularly? As for greedy city governments, that's incorrect. It's greedy corporate interests, not the city governments who create the imbalance between American inner-cities and its suburbs. Large city governments (on the east coast, for certain) are generally money pits of white and black inefficiency. City governments get plenty of federal and state dollars, they are just run by selfish political hacks who have no greater goal than lining their pockets and taking as much sick and vacation time as possible. This is the Roxy Music mailing list? Ferry needs to release more music and distract us from our social conscience! Heather Marie Propes wrote: > > I don't know if I was saying you were incorrect. Not being British and only > > having visited London for 5 days 9 years ago, I have no clue about the workings > > of British society. But regional accents do prohibit progress in the U.S. Even > > though they may be "street smart," Clinton and Stern are not typically admired > > for their cultural depth. However, on top of their obvious difference, I would > > say the way black Americans speak has really held them back from succeeding. > > There are already few prominent black American upper-class types, and the few who > > do ascend the ranks speak rather eloquently and....whitely. > > Well, I think that is more of a race issue than a dialect issue. Besides, > there are whole genres of Black literature in America that flaunt the > black dialect, look at Toni Morrison or Maya Angelou. I really think > that black dialect is considered part of America's cultural legacy. It > doesn't prevent people from getting jobs, but the lack of decent > educational resources in America's inner cities, created by greedy city > government who like to divert tax funds to downtown commerical districts > and wealthy white suburbs, does. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:13:37 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Re: avalon-digest V3 #179 >Does anyone know if this Davy O'List the same guy who played with >Keith Emerson's Nice in the 60's? > > >Vicente indeed it is.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:10:05 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Website? >I did a search of Internic for roxy-music.com and surprise, surprise >look who owns the site: > >Registrant: >Phil Manzanera ROXY-MUSIC2-DOM > Gallery Music 3 Park Mews 213 Kilburn Lane > London, W10 4BQ > UK > > Domain Name: ROXY-MUSIC.COM > > Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: > Tebbetts, Charles CT1047 c.tebbetts@WEBSITE.CO.UK > +44 1799 550 773 (FAX) +44 1799 550 092 > Billing Contact: > Tebbetts, Charles CT1047 c.tebbetts@WEBSITE.CO.UK > +44 1799 550 773 (FAX) +44 1799 550 092 well, i'll be damned. clicking on the artwork on that page activates an email link to info@roxy-music.com. i sent them a message asking just what the site was about but don't know who will respond. >For roxymusic.com I found this: >Registrant: >Roxy Music Shop ROXYMUSIC2-DOM > 1008 Licolnway > LaPorte, IN 46350 > US > (snip) somebody posted this a few months ago ... it's a music store in indiana! ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V3 #180 **************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to avalon-digest-owner@smoe.org