From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V3 #179 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [erik simpson ] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [vandyne.4@osu.edu (Bob VanDyne)] Re: [AVALON] "If There Is Something" on VIVA! [William Sommers ] Re: [AVALON] "If There Is Something" on VIVA! [Bahi Para ] Re: [AVALON] Show us the money [Bahi Para ] RE: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [jspellma@techadvisers.com] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players [Frank and Liz Smith ] Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players ["Decophile" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:24:59 -0700 From: erik simpson Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players At 09:13 PM 7/19/98 -0000, you wrote: >When did Wetton and Maida appear? Wetton only shows up on Ferry`s solo work >and shows. Could some of the Viva! tracks come from a Ferry solo show? And >who is Sal Maida? As I understood it, Wetton actually joined the band, post-"Siren", after King Crimson broke up, supposedly resolving their revolving-door bass player problem, only to watch the band disintegrate anyway. But for a brief period of time he was a full-fledged member. Always wondered where that union might have led. I had thought that a strong bassist who was also a strong singer and a committed member of the band could only be a plus. Up until that point his work had been exceptional (Family, King Crimson). I was really sad to see Wetton go on to play with Uriah Heep, post-Roxy. Seems like his career has really been up and down ever since. The only time I ever had the chance to see Ferry live (living well off the beaten tour paths of most interesting musical acts) was the "In Your Mind" tour in '77. That band had Manzanera, Thompson and Wetton in it and gave a slight taste of what Roxy might have been with Wetton, although, musically the band was more straightforward than Roxy. But anytime you can afford to relegate Phil Manzanera to 2nd guitar (and bass) duties (Chris Spedding was playing lead), you must have a pretty good band. >Anyway, that`s a hell of a lot of bass players for 5 albums. Can't argue with that. I always wondered why they couldn't settle on one. I liked Graham Simpson's playing on the first album a lot. He seemed like the most distinctive stylist to me, but John Gustafson did an excellent job on all the albums he played on, also. Bye; Erik S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:45:19 -0400 (EDT) From: vandyne.4@osu.edu (Bob VanDyne) Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players >As I understood it, Wetton actually joined the band, post-"Siren", after >King Crimson broke up, supposedly resolving their revolving-door bass player >problem, only to watch the band disintegrate anyway. Actually, I beleive it was prior to Siren. Crimson broke up in summer/fall '74. Wetton was on tour with Roxy at the time. I remember reading an interview with Wetton, something about how everyone assumed that he joined the band, but he was just on for the tour. After the tour, Roxy recorded Siren, Wetton joined Uriah Heep. I remember in that same interview, Wetton said something about how Roxy wasn't loud enough for him. Bob, Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:36:33 -0700 From: William Sommers Subject: Re: [AVALON] "If There Is Something" on VIVA! At 02:47 7/20/98 +0100, Bahi Para wrote: > [snip] I love Phil Manzanera's > quirky playing but this version seems to feature his predecessor, > whose name I've forgotten. (The guy who reportedly got into a > fight with Paul Thompson before or during the performance for EG > management.) Though I can't comment on whether he was the player, the name would be Davy O'List. -wfs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:10:57 +0100 From: Bahi Para Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Arnie asked: ><< F***in' 'ell, what a gaff!" >> > >And for Americans that would mean ????????? Gaff? Pad, sock, place of residence. Also (when spelt with an e) an embarrassing mistake - a faux pas or (usually social) blunder is a gaffe. The latter meaning probably not uppermost in Noel's mind at the time but definitely in Dylan Jones's. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:10:35 +0100 From: Bahi Para Subject: Re: [AVALON] "If There Is Something" on VIVA! William Somemrs wrote: >Though I can't comment on whether he was the player, the name would be Davy >O'List. Thanks for the reminder. Agreed, no proof that it's him on the recording but it doesn't sound anything like Phil Manzanera: it's a very blues/guitar hero approach. If I ever manage to dig up the tape (it's in Wales, I'm in Brussels) I'll try to sort out some copies. 90% sure it's O'List on there. I think my copy of the tape was called "When We Were Young" and had (oddly) a Live Aid picture of Ferry sporting his buttoned-up-and-tieless '85 look while clutching two bulky microphones. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:18:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Colleen Matan Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Bahi Para wrote: > (The Sunday times printed a well-publicised piece a few years ago accusing > Ferry of wanting nothing more than to be a country squire. He was reported > to be irate.) On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Heather Marie Propes wrote: > I admit there is an element of truth the that description, but I think > Ferry's representation of wealth is ironic, not merely imitative. Of > course, in every "joke" there is an element of reality. I wonder why he > became so irate when the article came out? Of course, I call myself a > Marxist. I wonder why I am so attracted to RM? I would think that he was irate because he was exposed as being such a pose[u]r. I think Ferry's representation of wealth is imitative, grasping AND sincere, with a veneer of irony to make it palatable to himself and others. If not, why the hyperactive attention to detail? (it's the only way to explain that decor) The second question I am afraid I cannot answer. > > & Queen, and generally aspired to the finer things in life. His record > > covers, meanwhile, were little vignettes of prosperity and cool, often with > > the singer as star: lounging around the hotel pool dressed in full evening > > dress, sunning himself in St Tropez, casting himself as a moustachioed > > lothario, surrounded by upmarket totty. > > > Sounds like a famous Helmut Newton photo, but I don't remember ever > having seen Ferry in such a setting. The cover of the _Another Time, Another Place_ features the pool photo. The other images may not come from album covers per se, but they are not off the mark. > > Of course, there was the element of role-play in what Ferry did, but far > > from wanting to disturb the Establishment he was eager to join it. He > > wanted in. There was nothing he wanted more than his own race horse, yacht > > and country pile. > > I think that is true of every British person, at least a fascination with > the Eaton crowd. Their rigid class structure, which manifests itself down > to the level of dialect, guarantees it. Look at D.H. Lawrence! I can't say that I am so sure that it is true of every English person. Certainly someone over there aspires to something else? I mean, at least one person, right? Right? I find his overwhelming eagerness and willingness to be part of the In Crowd rather endearing, to tell you the truth. That is, when I don't find it annoying and rather shallow. > > wake of the New Romantics in the early 1980s. Consequently, that image > > became devalued, and soon urbane, bow-tied, slightly world-weary crooners > > were cropping up everywhere - ABC, Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet and all the > > other second-generation lounge lizards. For them, shopping in Molton > > Street, swanning about in limos and falling in and out of each other's > > swimming pools were part of a pop star's job description, not unseemly > > pacts with the devil. > > > Like I said, I think this is just British life. Hey, this guy is writing a > discography of my favorite bands! British life? Cool! Maybe I should have moved to Britain when I had the chance. But seriously, I suspect that the point of that particular litany of bands is to show how commonplace, not mention how second-rate and imitative, this kind of appropriation became after Mr. Ferry's rise to not just fame and fortune, but social status as well, once the initial novelty and shock wore off. I believe Mr. Marx had some things to say about that cycle. Speaking only for myself, I'd rather visit the home of someone who has decorated it according to their own personal taste, regardless any Woolworth veneer, than someone who slavishly recreates some ersatz version of Country Life. Colleen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:59:10 +0100 From: John Kent Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players Its difficult to see anyone but Bryan Ferry giving the lead vocals in Roxy. I think that John Wetton is a great vocalist in his own right and would be frankly wasted only giving backing vocals. Some of his work as the lead vocalist in Asia was superb as was his recent work with Steve Hackett. Incidently he is appearing at this weekends progressive rock festival at Whitchurch, Hants, UK (The country not the Band!) Maybe the trend of a session bassist was the first stage towards Ferry using the multitudes of musicians that appear on his recent solo albums. Incidently has anyone counted/listed how many different musicians have worked with Ferry over the years......? John Kent > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-avalon@smoe.org [mailto:owner-avalon@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > erik simpson > Sent: 20 July 1998 15:25 > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players > > > At 09:13 PM 7/19/98 -0000, you wrote: > >When did Wetton and Maida appear? Wetton only shows up on > Ferry`s solo work > >and shows. Could some of the Viva! tracks come from a Ferry solo > show? And > >who is Sal Maida? > > As I understood it, Wetton actually joined the band, post-"Siren", after > King Crimson broke up, supposedly resolving their revolving-door > bass player > problem, only to watch the band disintegrate anyway. But for a > brief period > of time he was a full-fledged member. Always wondered where that > union might > have led. I had thought that a strong bassist who was also a strong singer > and a committed member of the band could only be a plus. Up until > that point > his work had been exceptional (Family, King Crimson). I was really sad to > see Wetton go on to play with Uriah Heep, post-Roxy. Seems like his career > has really been up and down ever since. > > The only time I ever had the chance to see Ferry live (living well off the > beaten tour paths of most interesting musical acts) was the "In Your Mind" > tour in '77. That band had Manzanera, Thompson and Wetton in it and gave a > slight taste of what Roxy might have been with Wetton, although, musically > the band was more straightforward than Roxy. But anytime you can afford to > relegate Phil Manzanera to 2nd guitar (and bass) duties (Chris > Spedding was > playing lead), you must have a pretty good band. > > >Anyway, that`s a hell of a lot of bass players for 5 albums. > > Can't argue with that. I always wondered why they couldn't settle > on one. I > liked Graham Simpson's playing on the first album a lot. He > seemed like the > most distinctive stylist to me, but John Gustafson did an excellent job on > all the albums he played on, also. > > Bye; > Erik S > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:22:22 +0100 From: Bahi Para Subject: Re: [AVALON] Show us the money Colleen Matlan wrote: >I think Ferry's representation of wealth is imitative, grasping >AND sincere, with a veneer of irony to make it palatable to himself and >others. Irony: a tricky thing. Those record covers, the "dreamhome" lyric, the magazine photo-shoots. They must have been *so* ironic and sophisticated at the time. And then the next thing you know... >The cover of the _Another Time, Another Place_ features the pool photo. >The other images may not come from album covers per se, but they are not >off the mark. Yep. Moustachioed Lothario: see the cover of the "Extended Play" EP (picked up a half-trashed copy a few years back for 50p). Also, one of the vids of the time. "You Go to My Head", maybe. It's on the "Best Of" collection, whatever it's called. Heather wrote: >> I think that is true of every British person, at least a fascination with >> the Eaton crowd. Their rigid class structure, which manifests itself down >> to the level of dialect, guarantees it. Look at D.H. Lawrence! If you believe that, you've spent far too little time in the UK. Only one of the Brits I met during my 26 years there displayed *any* fasination whatsoever with Eaton, and he's a chronic liar, now on lithium treatment. I'm not saying more people like that don't exist, but let's keep a sense of balance. (Try more Ian MacEwan, more Will Self, more Martin Amis and much less D H Lawrence.) B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:55:52 -0400 From: jspellma@techadvisers.com Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players I wonder if having all these players was by design. I remember when the 5th Dimension used to come to town they never traveled with a bass player. The reason was to avoid from going stale on the tour. Having the best available session player in that town all fired up gave the band a lift. The Stones actually had a full time bass player but still had all kinds of people playing on their albums in the 70's. It can be quite effective to give the band a fresh sound without taking away from it's authenticity. I prefer the playing on the 2nd album to the first, maybe beacause the songs had more of a pocket. I think John Gustafson was like the bass player version of Paul Thompson. He seemed to hold the longest tenure with the band. Who's the guy in the "Do The Strand" and "Dream Home Heartache" videos on "Recall"? I know it was John Porter playing but always thought that was Gustafson. And what about Gary Tibbs? It says in the recent "Concert Classics" 1979 liner notes he was actually given a second go round. I never heard of that before. Tibbs and Allen Spenner help change the sound of the band with frettless bass. I think Tibbs was closer to the old sound. And I don't know, who is Sal Maida? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:36:06 +0000 From: Frank and Liz Smith Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players Sal Maida played with Roxy in the 1976 Siren tour - I saw him in LA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 01:40:05 PDT From: tfagan Subject: RE: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players as with just about everything "ferry," the revolving bass player can be put down to the almighty pound. they wouldn't let any bass player "join" roxy music. they didn't want to make the slices of the pizza pie smaller than they were. the bassists were all hired hands; i think even eddie "better get a job, son" was never allowed to join. - --Theresa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:48:37 -0000 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players - -----Original Message----- From: Frank and Liz Smith To: avalon@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 2:35 AM Subject: Re: [AVALON] Roxy Bass Players >Sal Maida played with Roxy in the 1976 Siren tour - I saw him in LA. > That`s interesting. The Viva! album was cut from shows performed in '74/'75 with Maida appearing some time then. Now on the '76 leg of the tour also? It seems like an awful lot of unnecessary work trying to juggle bass players from show to show while trying to maintain sanity among the rest of the entourage, not to mention the other problems involved with a two year tour. Sheesh! I remember never getting more than 3 days into a family vacation before the threats of my being abandoned along some wilderness highway started to fly. Two years on the road together? Ha! Gene ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V3 #179 **************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to avalon-digest-owner@smoe.org