From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V2 #26 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Friday, October 10 1997 Volume 02 : Number 026 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound ["Graham Howard" ] Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound ["Graham Howard" ] [AVALON] RE: Avalon sound [Murali ] RE: [AVALON] Smalltalk [derekc ] Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound [Will ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:35:53 +0500 From: "Graham Howard" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound > Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 00:41:17 -0400 > From: John Fohrman > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound > Reply-to: avalon@smoe.org > Greetings everyone. > > As a musician, I would be taken aback by the comment of that > interviewer. Although I strongly support people having their own > opinion, I don't think the way you guys are talking. I'll be specific: > I actually hear songs in dreams, write them down, and record them. > (This brings up another philosophical debate which I won't get into > here, but would be happy to respond to.) The "sound" is integral to the > nature of the song. > > I think BF, being far more accomplished and experienced than I am, > thinks more about the overall sound of an entire album. There's several > reasons for this, not the least of which is WHAT SELLS. I used to get a > little mad at our hero for his forays into trying to be as big in the > U.S. as he is in Europe, particularly because part of it may have been > his failure to transcend his jealousy towards a certain > musician/marketing genius with very large lips. > > After meeting BF, I found him to be a truly wonderful, sincere human > being. I was euphoric that the only popular figure I had chosen as a > role model turned out to be so worthy of my admiration. Any > reservations I had evaporated. BF should record whatever he feels > like. I hope he benefits from it greatly; he deserves it. > > All the best to all of you... > John > > > > Victor Hastings wrote: > > > > >>John wrote, > > > > > > Bryan should drop thiis relentless effort to recreate the Avalon sound. > > > > Instead he should return to either the electrfying sounds of Stranded > > > > (MOP and Serenade) or should go for horn laden sounds of his middle > > solo > > > > efforts. > > > > > > > > I really enjoy the Avalon sound but it is just too difficult for the > > > > average man in the street. Plus it loses something on radio (smashing > > if > > > > you listen to BF through a Linn ot Naim but the majority don't) > > > > > > > > Even Siren had a nice edge to it. > > > > > > > Graham wrote, > > > Welcome John from a fellow RM/BF fan of twenty five years. > > > Interesting comments, but would everyone agree that everything BF has > > > done since Avalon has been an attempt to create the Avalon sound? I > > > think there's an element of truth in this, but as a general > > > description of everything he's done since I think it's innacurate, > > > and does little justice to the eclectic nature of his post-Avalon > > > output. > > > > > Welcome to the list. A French interviewer accused Ferry of trying to > > remake Avalon for the past 15 years & he took exception to that. There's > > an obvious transition in Ferry's work, beginning with the remade disco > > versions of "Angel Eyes" and "Manifesto," from that vintage Roxy wall of > > sound to a lighter style whose most successful exposition was "Avalon." > > But I thought "Bete Noire" owed a lot to the older Roxy style -- songs like > > "The Right Stuff" and "Day for Night" are good crank-up-the-volume pieces & > > there's little on "Manifesto," "F + B" or "Avalon" that fits that > > description. And "Boys & Girls" doesn't strike me as terribly similar to > > "Avalon" though not terribly dissimilar -- more like a cautious first step > > forward in Ferry's first solo venture of the decade. > > > > "Taxi" & "Mamouna" mine the same art-rock vein, and I'd say those two bear > > the most resemblance to "Avalon." Whether it's a favorable comparison is a > > matter of individual preference. "Mamouna" has become one of my faves. > > > > All told I share your fondness for the earlier stuff, especially albums 3, > > 4 & 5, but I don't expect the next Ferry release to sound remotely like > > them. I would agree that the last fifteen years sound markedly different > > from the first ten, but I don't think everything since "Avalon" sounds the > > same. > > > > I'll get off the soap box now & give someone else a turn. > > > > -------------------- > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe avalon > > > > -------------------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe avalon > - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:39:20 +0500 From: "Graham Howard" Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound > Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 00:41:17 -0400 > From: John Fohrman > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound > Reply-to: avalon@smoe.org > Greetings everyone. > > As a musician, I would be taken aback by the comment of that > interviewer. Although I strongly support people having their own > opinion, I don't think the way you guys are talking. I'll be specific: > I actually hear songs in dreams, write them down, and record them. > (This brings up another philosophical debate which I won't get into > here, but would be happy to respond to.) The "sound" is integral to the > nature of the song. > > I think BF, being far more accomplished and experienced than I am, > thinks more about the overall sound of an entire album. There's several > reasons for this, not the least of which is WHAT SELLS. I used to get a > little mad at our hero for his forays into trying to be as big in the > U.S. as he is in Europe, particularly because part of it may have been > his failure to transcend his jealousy towards a certain > musician/marketing genius with very large lips. > > After meeting BF, I found him to be a truly wonderful, sincere human > being. I was euphoric that the only popular figure I had chosen as a > role model turned out to be so worthy of my admiration. Any > reservations I had evaporated. BF should record whatever he feels > like. I hope he benefits from it greatly; he deserves it. > > All the best to all of you... > John > > > > Victor Hastings wrote: > > > > >>John wrote, > > > > > > Bryan should drop thiis relentless effort to recreate the Avalon sound. > > > > Instead he should return to either the electrfying sounds of Stranded > > > > (MOP and Serenade) or should go for horn laden sounds of his middle > > solo > > > > efforts. > > > > > > > > I really enjoy the Avalon sound but it is just too difficult for the > > > > average man in the street. Plus it loses something on radio (smashing > > if > > > > you listen to BF through a Linn ot Naim but the majority don't) > > > > > > > > Even Siren had a nice edge to it. > > > > > > > Graham wrote, > > > Welcome John from a fellow RM/BF fan of twenty five years. > > > Interesting comments, but would everyone agree that everything BF has > > > done since Avalon has been an attempt to create the Avalon sound? I > > > think there's an element of truth in this, but as a general > > > description of everything he's done since I think it's innacurate, > > > and does little justice to the eclectic nature of his post-Avalon > > > output. > > > > > Welcome to the list. A French interviewer accused Ferry of trying to > > remake Avalon for the past 15 years & he took exception to that. There's > > an obvious transition in Ferry's work, beginning with the remade disco > > versions of "Angel Eyes" and "Manifesto," from that vintage Roxy wall of > > sound to a lighter style whose most successful exposition was "Avalon." > > But I thought "Bete Noire" owed a lot to the older Roxy style -- songs like > > "The Right Stuff" and "Day for Night" are good crank-up-the-volume pieces & > > there's little on "Manifesto," "F + B" or "Avalon" that fits that > > description. And "Boys & Girls" doesn't strike me as terribly similar to > > "Avalon" though not terribly dissimilar -- more like a cautious first step > > forward in Ferry's first solo venture of the decade. > > > > "Taxi" & "Mamouna" mine the same art-rock vein, and I'd say those two bear > > the most resemblance to "Avalon." Whether it's a favorable comparison is a > > matter of individual preference. "Mamouna" has become one of my faves. > > > > All told I share your fondness for the earlier stuff, especially albums 3, > > 4 & 5, but I don't expect the next Ferry release to sound remotely like > > them. I would agree that the last fifteen years sound markedly different > > from the first ten, but I don't think everything since "Avalon" sounds the > > same. > > I agree with Victor on this one - couldnt have put it better myself, except that I would say FYP is the best early album. John, could you share your meeting with BF? Maybe you have and I didnt get to read it. Graham. - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 14:59:19 +0100 (BST) From: Murali Subject: [AVALON] RE: Avalon sound Hi everybody I'm Murali and I'm back on the list after a year or so. I thought I'd chip in on this thread. Like others who've replied, I think it's not true BF's work since Avalon merely attempts to 'recreate' that sound. For my money Avalon, Boys and Girls and Bete Noire are all different albums, and right up there with the first two classic Roxy albums. Boys and Girls is superb as a 'concept' album, with all those great guitar parts and solos combining with atmospherics and Rimbaud-like lyrics (is anyone else into that side of it, BTW? - Rimbaud wrote a poem called Sensation). Bete Noire is great for its punchy drums, its latin rhythms and dark, evocative lyrics. But (and this is my point) I don't think Mamouna is quite on that level. I like it more than I did, but I'm still disappointed at the muddy production - it took the power out of David Williams's 'organic' riffs which BF worked so hard for. I also thought BF was going in too much for those spacey sounds - they're good sounds but they are so languid the 2nd half of the album can sound bogged down at times. And as for the idea that Robin Trower helped Ferry concentrate bring his vocals up front again - well, I don't think so. The vocals on Boys and Girls and Bete Noire are more powerful for being understated. The lyrics for me aren't as good as they were either - and I think it's good BF said (in the Mamouna tour programme) he's going to start with the lyrics next time. Don't get me wrong - Mamouna is good, but I just think that when you think it was nearly 7 years in the making (BF did have his problems, I know) it could have been better. Chain Reaction, Don't Wanna Know and the title track are all great though. I've got a feeling (and I hope) the next one'll be a stormer. I'll shut up now. Here's hoping for plenty of replies... Murali "So it gets to 7 and I think of nothing - but living in darkness" - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 97 12:14:39 PDT From: tfagan Subject: [AVALON] b-sides the subject i have always counted "hula kula" as my favourita when it comes to b-sides. imagine my surprise when at a recent morrissey concert i attended, this song was played before morrissey's manifestation! - --Theresa - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 97 14:56:17 -0400 From: derekc Subject: RE: [AVALON] Smalltalk owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org >I agree with Peter on As The World Turns, that is so laid back ... Until Fripp comes whirling in.... This is one of my prize B-sides. I wish BF would release his own collection of B-sides to go with the great CD full in the Thrill Of It All collection. >For RM, I go with Your Application's Failed (even if it's just to hear >Paul Thompson's geordie brouge of a vocal). That was BF's voice. It gives you an idea of how he used to talk before he aristocratized his voice (a deliberate act on his part, reportedly. I think he said something like he needed to make his voice more "posh.") >Throw Andy MacKay in to this and let's have Wild Week-end. Was this the >B to Walking The Whipet ??? No, I think it was an A-side, although I've never seen it. :-Derek Derek Currie, derekc@frontiernet.net - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:12:49 -0500 From: Will Subject: Re: [AVALON] Avalon Sound Graham Howard wrote: >> Welcome John from a fellow RM/BF fan of twenty five years. > Interesting comments, but would everyone agree that everything BF has > done since Avalon has been an attempt to create the Avalon sound? I > think there's an element of truth in this, but as a general > description of everything he's done since I think it's innacurate, > and does little justice to the eclectic nature of his post-Avalon > output. > > Graham. I think I agree with that. Will - -------------------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V2 #26 *************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to avalon-digest-owner@smoe.org