From: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org (avalon-digest) To: avalon-digest@smoe.org Subject: avalon-digest V2 #12 Reply-To: avalon@smoe.org Sender: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-avalon-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk avalon-digest Wednesday, September 24 1997 Volume 02 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [AVALON] New topics ["Decophile" ] [AVALON] Trower/Ferry ["Graham Howard" ] Re: Fw: [AVALON] New topics [BPhilipson@aol.com] Re: [AVALON] New topics ["Victor Hastings" ] [AVALON] Extra Explorers info ["Victor Hastings" ] [AVALON] BF/RX new Vinyl in! [thesonics@earthlink.net (Jay Siekierski)] Re: [AVALON] Trower/Ferry [erik simpson ] Re: [AVALON] Trower/Ferry [SSIL1@aol.com] [AVALON] BF & Guitar gods [Brian Folks ] [AVALON] from the mythical land of IMHO [erik simpson ] [AVALON] M&M releases [THREEN9@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:01:05 -0000 From: "Decophile" Subject: Re: [AVALON] New topics > From: ASchulberg@aol.com > To: avalon@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [AVALON] New topics > Date: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:54 AM > >>In a message dated 97-09-21 04:06:56 EDT, you write: > >>I just heard from a friend that he read that Robin Trower is going on >>tour and B.F. is going with him. I don't know if he's going as himself >>as an opener or as Trower's vocalist. > WOW!!! > That would be incredible. I've always loved Jim Dewar's baritone and find him > an excellent vocalist. But he's so much more "bluesy" than our Bryan. > Anyone think BF would be credible on "Day of the Eagle"? "Daydream"; well, > maybe. But, frankly, I think your friend misunderstood and that may be good > if it really means that Bryan's on tour and Trower's with him. I`m sure Bryan could get away with any number of Trower songs. Although I can`t see him doing "Too Rolling Stoned", at the same time I remember thinking the same thing about his cover of "Sympathy For The Devil". To this day I think it`s the best cover I ever heard of that song. Trower and Ferry are a perfect match and I`d love to hear what Trower could do with something like "In Every Dream Home..." or "If there Is Something." I can only imagine what they`ve been experimenting with in the studio and I`d kill to get ahold of the tapes. With Ferry`s smooth vocals and Trower`s guitar magic, this merger would certinaly produce something special. Gene To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:27:42 +0500 From: "Graham Howard" Subject: [AVALON] Trower/Ferry > From: "Decophile" > To: > Subject: Re: [AVALON] New topics > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:01:05 -0000 > Reply-to: avalon@smoe.org > > From: ASchulberg@aol.com > > To: avalon@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: [AVALON] New topics > > Date: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:54 AM > > > >>In a message dated 97-09-21 04:06:56 EDT, you write: > > > >>I just heard from a friend that he read that Robin Trower is going on > >>tour and B.F. is going with him. I don't know if he's going as himself > >>as an opener or as Trower's vocalist. > > I`m sure Bryan could get away with any number of Trower songs. Although I > can`t see him doing "Too Rolling Stoned", at the same time I remember > thinking the same thing about his cover of "Sympathy For The Devil". To > this day I think it`s the best cover I ever heard of that song. > Trower and Ferry are a perfect match and I`d love to hear what Trower could > do with something like "In Every Dream Home..." or "If there Is Something." > > I can only imagine what they`ve been experimenting with in the studio and > I`d kill to get ahold of the tapes. With Ferry`s smooth vocals and Trower`s > guitar magic, this merger would certinaly produce something special. > > Gene > > > I agree that BFs version of "Sympathy for the Devil" was the best ever; what wonderful, restrained and controlled aggression! At the risk of being in a minority of one and being flamed on this list, I cant agree about Robin Trower. When I saw BF in Sydney I thought that RT was the weak link in the otherwise tight backing group. I also found his "guitar hero" antics distracting and innapropriate for Ferry's style (see the unflattering Sydney review on the home page). Graham. To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BPhilipson@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: [AVALON] New topics I have two Manzanera & Mackay albums, Crack the Whip & Up in Smoke. They were both released on Relativity and are pretty equal in quality. They were released in '88 and '89, so I don't think they're still available on that label. To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:18:22 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: Re: [AVALON] New topics >> I understand that altho the > > Explorers never released a second album, Manzanera & Mackay released some > > of those tracks on an album or EP called, well, "Manzanera & Mackay ." Is > > it available on CD, if so is it still in print & if so is it as good as the > > first round of Explorers releases? I liked the 12" singles and the album a > > lot. Much better than Phil's collaboration with John Wetton. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Victor Hastings > > > Nice to hear some good things about the Exploers. I only heard their > one album, and thought it excellent: atmospheric and very roxyish, > and the singer did sound like BF. My fav track was "Breath of Life". > What a great song, and what a pity they weren't commercially > successful. Let me pass along some info on the Explorers' discography, which Erik Simpson had sent me privately, in case more are interested. The Explorers released a series of 12" singles in the mid-80s which were remixes of songs that were eventually released on their self-titled album which Graham mentions above. Actually a couple of the singles ("Crack the Whip" & "Falling For Nightlife," I think) never made it to the album. The album continued the Roxy tradition of critical success and commercial failure, at least in the US. The album was later released on CD but is only available as an import. Mackay, Manzanera et al. went back to the studio a few years later and came up with a second disc's worth of material, which was NOT released under the Explorers moniker. Instead, there are two "Manzanera & Mackay" discs that, between them, include all of the material from the two recording sessions. CDNow (http:\\www.cdnow.com) has an import M&M disc in stock that contains what appears to be the tracks recorded in the second Explorers session. In addition, there is domestic M&M disc that is scheduled for a Sepember 30 release. There is no track list available for the new release but one would assume that it is the same as the import. CDNow's notes for the import say that it contains different artwork than the original release; we'll see what appears on the domestic. Voiceprint (http://www.artist-shop.com/voiceprt/index.htm) shows three Explorers-ish CDs: the original Explorers disc, a live Explorers album (recorded 12/5/85 in London) and "M&M Present the Players Christmas" import - -- your guess is as good as mine. These are all listed under the Expression label. Erik says Voiceprint is more of a clearing house than a record store so availability of these items may be speculative at best. So there it is. If you want a pretty complete Explorers collection, go for the first CD, the live album and the Christmas album thru Voiceprint, and the reissued import or the domestic thru CDNow. If I've garbled any of this, I'm sure Erik will notice since he's pretty encyclopedic in this area! I would like comments/reviews of these discs, especially the more obscure stuff. Victor Hastings To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:42:22 -0500 From: "Victor Hastings" Subject: [AVALON] Extra Explorers info In my previous post I failed to mention that Voiceprint also stocks "Up In Smoke" and the second M&M CD which between them also appear to comprise all of the Explorers material. I'm a bit shaky on this but I believe that there are four Explorers studio CDs but only two discs' worth of material. "Up In Smoke" and the first M&M disc should contain the same tracks as "The Explorers" and the second M&M release which is available as an import and soon as a domestic. I have probably butchered this so please keep snide comments private. ;-) Victor To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:13:37 +0100 From: Peter Dewey Subject: [AVALON] Explorers Perhaps someone who has all the Explorers/M&M releases could solve the issues by listing the tracks on the various CD's. I would mention that the players Xmas CD is not, as such, a M&M release, as it is a recording of Xmas standards by a number of musicians. I have the UK M&M release, from 1990, which plays (I had to look and couldn't have named many!!!): Black Gang Chine; Free Yourself; Built for Speed; Many Are The Ways; I Can Be Tender; Dreams Of The East; Sacrosanct; Every King Of Stone; Men With Extraordinary Ways; Safe In The Arms Of Love & Forgotten Man. I also have the Live CD which runs: Ship Of Fools; Lorelei; Crack The Whip; Robert Louis Stevenson; Breath Of Life; It's Over; Voodoo Isle; You Go Up In Smoke; Soul Fantasy; Prussian Blue; Two Worlds Apart; Out of The Blue & Venus De Milo. The live CD is, I recall, pretty much the original Explorers LP release, with some extras, notably It's Over, which is good. I saw the Explorers on this tour, In Cardiff in 1984 or 1985. They were pretty good live, I remember many of the songs from the first LP and OOTB, but not if they did any other Roxy numbers. Perhaps someone could fill in the gaps. - -- Peter Dewey To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:08:59 -0700 (PDT) From: thesonics@earthlink.net (Jay Siekierski) Subject: [AVALON] BF/RX new Vinyl in! New BF/RM vinyl in, imports/domestic/stickers/and a sealed pix disc too! Mail JNYC The Sonics Music Site. Published & Edited By Jay Siekierski Indiscreet Modern Music Rocket Fuel In The Octave Http://www.earthlink.net/~thesonics/ To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:08:35 -0700 From: erik simpson Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trower/Ferry At 09:27 AM 9/23/97 +0500, you wrote: >> I can only imagine what they`ve been experimenting with in the studio and >> I`d kill to get ahold of the tapes. With Ferry`s smooth vocals and Trower`s >> guitar magic, this merger would certinaly produce something special. >> >> Gene > >At the risk of being in a minority of one and being flamed on this >list, I cant agree about Robin Trower. When I saw BF in Sydney I >thought that RT was the weak link in the otherwise tight backing >group. I also found his "guitar hero" antics distracting and >innapropriate for Ferry's style (see the unflattering Sydney review >on the home page). > >Graham. Hi Graham. Though you and i tend to be in agreement much of the time, here I disagree with you (with reservations). Let me first state that I DIDN'T see the tour, so i don't have that to work with. Rather I am going by the live tape we did a tape tree of last year on the list that had Ferry, live in Wolverhampton, fronting a fairly stripped down band, with Trower on lead. I really liked that one a lot. It was a good mix of old ("Every Dreamhome...", "Out of The Blue") and new ("39 Steps", "Your Painted Smile") material, that really benefitted from Trowers presence. A definite improvement, for me, from Jeff Thall on the "New Town" video, whose "guitar hero" playing I DID find distracting and inapropriate (and quite generic and faceless). I have always liked Trowers playing, very passionate and heartfelt, and with loads of personality, IMHO. My main problem with him has always been context. After the first couple lp's, his song writing ideas seemed to run out (IMHO, as always), so it is great, for me, to him playing in a different context (those great Bryan Ferry numbers). Maybe this is the harbinger of a new trend; Arty, British (or British-based) Pop/Rock singers teaming with '70's blues-based guitar heros. Just imagine; David Sylvian and Alvin Lee, Scott Walker and Kim Simmonds. It boggles the mind. Bye; eriks@on-ramp.ior.com http://www.ior.com/~eriks To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:11:53 -0400 (EDT) From: SSIL1@aol.com Subject: Re: [AVALON] Trower/Ferry In a message dated 97-09-23 09:30:03 EDT, you write: << When I saw BF in Sydney I thought that RT was the weak link in the otherwise tight backing group. I also found his "guitar hero" antics distracting and innapropriate for Ferry's style (see the unflattering Sydney review on the home page). >> I sort of felt the same way about Jeff Thall from the "New Town" video. With his big, teased hair, his hammer-ons, pull-offs, arpeggios, and otherwise flashy 80s heavy metal guitar tricks, I felt that he would have been better off playing Bon Jovi or Poison rather than Bryan Ferry. Paul Sisolak SSIL1@aol.com To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:46:36 -0700 From: Brian Folks Subject: [AVALON] BF & Guitar gods I rather think Ferry likes these guitar hero types. Ever notice his lame air guitar antics during the solos? For some reason I get embarrassed for him when he does this. To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:42:16 -0700 From: erik simpson Subject: [AVALON] from the mythical land of IMHO At 10:18 AM 9/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >Voiceprint (http://www.artist-shop.com/voiceprt/index.htm) shows three >Explorers-ish CDs: the original Explorers disc, a live Explorers album >(recorded 12/5/85 in London) and "M&M Present the Players Christmas" import >-- your guess is as good as mine. These are all listed under the >Expression label. Erik says Voiceprint is more of a clearing house than a >record store so availability of these items may be speculative at best. > I may have confused Victor here. I was referring to Artist-Shop not Voiceprint. Since I am the king of the run-on sentence, it is not hard to see how he might have misunderstood me. Artist-Shop is an on-line clearing house/distributor for independent labels, many of them artist owned. Much of their stuff is of a "Progressive" nature, both great (Cuneiform, DGM, Voiceprint/Resurgence) amd not so great (various offshoots of Yes, ELP, Moody Blues. Sorry, i just can't stomach that stuff. As if it needs saying: IMHO). Voiceprint is one of the more interesting labels they carry. IMHO! IMHO! >So there it is. If you want a pretty complete Explorers collection, go for >the first CD, the live album and the Christmas album thru Voiceprint, and >the reissued import or the domestic thru CDNow. If I've garbled any of >this, I'm sure Erik will notice since he's pretty encyclopedic in this >area! Since I am visiting from the mythical land of IMHO today, let me add; Avoid the Xmas album at all costs. It is NOT an Explorers lp. Phil Manzanera serves merely as Executive producer, I think. I can't check the credits, as I got rid of this charmer almost as fast as I got it. It consists of Andy Mackay and a bunch of London street musicians playing Xmas Xarols. We've had this discussion before and there are those who like this album given the proper place and time (Xmas, I would guess). Part of the problem is me, I am sure. I am surely too jaded and cynical for my own good, but the constant commercialization and selling of Xmas has robbed it of any meaning it might have had for me, to the point where this kind of stuff drives me up the walls. "Quaint" would be the kindest thing I could say about this CD. IMHO HO HO! Give me "Eddie Riff" or "Resolving Contradictions" any day. Seriously, has anyone ever seen these on CD? Not to change the subject or anything. Bye; eriks@on-ramp.ior.com http://www.ior.com/~eriks To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:53:49 -0400 (EDT) From: LizzieJim@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] Looking for Ferry song.... Hi! I'm new to the list and I adore Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music. My favorite Bryan song is one he actually never sang at least as far as I know of. I wish he would do his own version. Anyway it was on of all things the first solo album I believe of Frida of ABBA fame. The song is The Way You Do. What I would like to know if anyone has ever located this album on CD. I saw it on CD a cupla years ago and to my regret never bought it. I have not been able to find it since. It might even be out of print. Let me know if you have any information regarding this matter. Thanks! To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:06:54 -0700 From: erik simpson Subject: Re: [AVALON] Explorers At 06:13 PM 9/23/97 +0100, you wrote: >Perhaps someone who has all the Explorers/M&M releases could solve the >issues by listing the tracks on the various CD's. > >I have the UK M&M release, from 1990, which plays (I had to look and >couldn't have named many!!!): > >Black Gang Chine; Free Yourself; Built For Speed; Many Are The Ways; I >Can Be Tender; Dreams Of The East; Sacrosanct; Every King Of Stone; Men >With Extraordinary Ways; Safe In The Arms Of Love & Forgotten Man. I don't have the Explorers lp, so I can't help there, but here is the listings of what I do have; "Crack the Whip"; Another Lost Soul On The Run; Soul Fantasy; Men With Extraordinary Ways; Safe In The Arms Of Love; Sacrosanct; Crack the Whip; Built For Speed; Two Worlds Apart; Voodoo Isle; Falling for Nightlife; It Always Rains In Paradise & Robert Louis Stevenson. "Up In Smoke"; Black Gang Chine; Free yourself; Lorelei; Every King of Stone; I Can Be Tender; Prussian Blue; Ship of Fools; Venus De Milo; Many Are The Ways; Breath Of Life; Dreams of the East & You Go up In Smoke.> >I also have the Live CD which runs: > >Ship Of Fools; Lorelei; Crack The Whip; Robert Louis Stevenson; Breath >Of Life; It's Over; Voodoo Isle; You Go Up In Smoke; Soul Fantasy; >Prussian Blue; Two Worlds Apart; Out of The Blue & Venus De Milo. > >The live CD is, I recall, pretty much the original Explorers LP release, >with some extras, notably It's Over, which is good. > >I saw the Explorers on this tour, In Cardiff in 1984 or 1985. They were >pretty good live, I remember many of the songs from the first LP and >OOTB, but not if they did any other Roxy numbers. Thanks for the info. I will have to search this one out. Has ANYONE got the other Manzanera/801 live disc (NOT "801 Live"). I am very curious about this one. Hope this helps. Bye; eriks@on-ramp.ior.com http://www.ior.com/~eriks To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:10:27 -0400 (EDT) From: THREEN9@aol.com Subject: [AVALON] M&M releases Peter you wrote >Perhaps someone who has all the Explorers/M&M releases could solve the >issues by listing the tracks on the various CD's. I would mention that >the players Xmas CD is not, as such, a M&M release, as it is a recording >of Xmas standards by a number of musicians. I have two of the M&M CD's, both of which are US releases on the Realitivity label. Crack The Whip released 1988: 1) Another Lost Soul On the Run 2) Soul Fantasy 3) Men With Extraordinary Ways 4) Safe In The Arms Of Love 5) Sacrosanct 6) Forgotten Man 7) Crack The Whip 8) Built For Speed 9) Two Worlds Apart 10) Voodoo Isle 11) Falling For Nightlife 12) It Always Rains In Paradise 13) Robert Louis Stevenson Up In Smoke released 1989: 1) Black Gang Chime 2) Free Yourself 3) Lorelei 4) Every King Of Stone 5) I Can Be Tender 6) Prussian Blue 7) Ship Of Fools 8) Venus de Milo 9) Many Are The Ways 10) Breathe Of Life 11) Dreams Of The East 12) You Go Up In Smoke <<<=== Would love to hear Ferry sing this tune Credits on both cd's go to: Manzanera: Guitar, Synthesizers Mackay: Sax, Oboe & Vocals James Wraith: Vocals featuring Steve Gadd, Gerry Morotta, Blair Cuningham: Drums Guy Fletcher: Keyboards Tony Levin, John Mackenzie, Alan Spenner: Bass Paul Carrack: Piano additional vocals: Eddy Grant, Justin Hayward, Eric Stewart, Tessa Niles, Carol Kenyan Both releases are quite good. Very much in the Roxy style. Bye, Bobby To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe avalon ------------------------------ End of avalon-digest V2 #12 *************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to avalon-digest-owner@smoe.org