From: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org (apple-tree-digest) To: apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Subject: apple-tree-digest V1 #32 Reply-To: apple-tree@smoe.org Sender: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk apple-tree-digest Tuesday, August 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 032 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #31 ["Roger Lai" ] RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #31 ["Ethan Mitchell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:10:28 -0700 From: "Roger Lai" Subject: RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #31 Ethan, I'm glad that you got so much out of Fiona's speech, and that it had such an effect on you. Frankly, an awards speech by a teenage singer is not the place I look to for philosophical insight. That's part of what bothered me about the speech - the awards show wasn't really the forum for this. If you really get into this, there's the whole cycle of "I'm different, just like everybody else." And then there's the question of "What if being yourself means being just like a lot of other people?" At what point are you trying so hard to be different that you begin to deny certain parts of who you really are? Fiona's not the first to address individuality, nor is she the most profound/articulate person to talk about this (my favorite musical discussion of individual identity is Paul Simon's "Myth of the Fingerprints" on the Graceland album). Basically, she mostly just showed how immature she was and annoyed a lot of people. I'm glad the speech had such a profound effect on your life. I tend to believe, though, that if you're ready to "discover yourself", you would have found one of the ten gajillion other places where this message appears. Roger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:50:06 +0000 From: "Ethan Mitchell" Subject: RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #31 > Ethan, > > I'm glad that you got so much out of Fiona's speech, and that it had such an > effect on you. Frankly, an awards speech by a teenage singer is not the > place I look to for philosophical insight. That's part of what bothered me > about the speech - the awards show wasn't really the forum for this. As she said, she was creating the opportunity. She wasn't speaking to anyone but the MTV audience, anyway...which was her whole point. So it was perfectly relevant. I mean, she was trying to say "Don't imitate me...be yourself" to a bunch of people who would look up to her--mainly the young MTV generation. Obviously not everyone's going to get anything out of it, and if you and 5 billion others didn't, fine. Some did. It had an effect on those lives. That's important. > If you really get into this, there's the whole cycle of "I'm different, just > like everybody else." And then there's the question of "What if being > yourself means being just like a lot of other people?" At what point are > you trying so hard to be different that you begin to deny certain parts of > who you really are? Actually, that cycle doesn't occur in what she was saying: going with yourself means going with yourself--not necessarily trying to be different. If myself is just like you, hey, cool. As long as I am doing whatever for my own reasons and not because I think it is cool to be like you, I am going with myself. Like, if some little girl picked out clothes because she thought they looked good on her, and then she noticed Fi wearing them and saying "go with yourself," all that little girl should do is say, "Cool, Fi's got good taste"...not "Uh oh, I better change." It's all in the reasoning...not in the final appearance and comparison. > Fiona's not the first to address individuality, nor is she the most > profound/articulate person to talk about this (my favorite musical > discussion of individual identity is Paul Simon's "Myth of the Fingerprints" > on the Graceland album). Basically, she mostly just showed how immature she > was and annoyed a lot of people. I'm glad the speech had such a profound > effect on your life. I tend to believe, though, that if you're ready to > "discover yourself", you would have found one of the ten gajillion other > places where this message appears. > > Roger I don't understand why "who did it first" should even be an issue. I've already showed how that wasn't her intent. And who said she was trying to be profound? This wasn't an excercise in intellect...it was an excerise in getting the message across. The fact that it is so universal and so obvious really makes me wonder, though, why so many people still don't get what she was saying. Call it immaturity if you will...maybe it was. The question is was her "immaturity" a bad thing. Perhaps for her it was, cause a lot of people wh odon't understand her really dislike her for it. But on the other hand, she's earned the respect of the people who got it. And people have benefited from it. I think it's silly to think that it should be said in some profound manner. She creates enough in her music to be allowed the poetic license to say things bluntly, IMO. It's not as though she's some dumbass who didn't know what she was talking about. And I really don't think it's fair to say "I tend to believe, though, that if you're ready to 'discover yourself', you would have found one of the ten gajillion other places where this message appears." I mean, it happened how it happened. It wasn't as though I was thinking, "Wow, I need to come out sometime soon...what does Fi have to say about that." Like, I don't actively go out and look to musicians for advice on how to run my life. And I'm not the type who can read something and instantly be affected by it. But after arguing about a speech on mailing lists for 8 months, you're gonna start believing what was said in the speech. I think it makes a lot more sense to believe that. Ethan ------------------------------ End of apple-tree-digest V1 #32 *******************************