From: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org (apple-tree-digest) To: apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Subject: apple-tree-digest V1 #31 Reply-To: apple-tree@smoe.org Sender: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-apple-tree-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk apple-tree-digest Monday, August 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 031 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #29 ["Ethan Mitchell" ] Re: apple-tree-digest V1 #29 ["Ethan Mitchell" ] Regarding Madonna [Emily Dawn Ebert ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:27:23 +0000 From: "Ethan Mitchell" Subject: RE: apple-tree-digest V1 #29 > I'd hate to point this out, but Fiona's speech last year wasn't really all > that original. It's general knowledge that the music industry sucks, that > it's BS, etc. etc. Kind of like the complaints that people have about our > court system. But y'know what?!? Nobody's come up with a better system > yet. > > Roger It also wasn't that friendly. Or happy. Or any of the kabillion other adjectives we could come up with. My point? It's not as though she was trying to be original--just as she wasn't trying to be friendly or happy. So why waste your time pointing out one specific adjective as though it's a black mark on her speech when it wasn't her goal in the first place? She was making a point strongly and wanted to be heard and understood. That was her goal. And the people who understood her benefited from what she said. Mission accomplished. Ethan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:34:09 +0000 From: "Ethan Mitchell" Subject: Re: apple-tree-digest V1 #29 > I just have to ask...how do you know what her goal was in making that speech? > Also, how can you "benefit" from that speech? There really is nothing to > benefit from, she pointed out, as Roger put it "general knowledge that the > music industry sucks". Which it does. How you could benefit from this speech > escapes me. > > Amber Fiona, when speaking about her reasons for being where she is in RS: "I want everyone to understand me." (That being the quote which is often misquoted as "I want everyone to like me." Fiona, when speaking about her MTV speech in the letter to her fans: http://www.epiccenter.com/EpicCenter/work/FionaApple/fletter.html Now, if you can't get out of those two things that she wanted to be understood and to have people benefit from her thoughts (obvious goals, I'd think), then I don't know where you're at. In any event, it is quite needless to say that her goal was not to be up there and be miss original. And let's consider this: if her speech was really such common knowledge, how is it that you can not benefit from its message? If you really think you can't benefit from it's message (which was "go with yourself" with "the music industry sucks" only as an aspect of why you should go with yourself...it was most certainly not just an attempt to show that the music industry sucks and to leave it at that...so apparently, it wasn't so common to some of you), then you must not think you can benefit from being your own person and not being influenced just by the latest trendy thing. I guess you don't believe that you should act on *your* feelings and not someone else's when you don't share the same feelings. So first of all, I find it funny that someone would claim her speech to be such common knowledge only to miss the main point of her speech. Second, if you didn't miss the main point of her speech, then it should be very clear how one can benefit from its message. Going with yourself is a very universal thing, which is why it's not so original. But I think it's benefits are quite obvious, so I don't think it makes any sense to say "How you could benefit from this speech escapes me." And here is how I personally benefited from her speech: I didn't concentrate so much on being honest about who I am until after I learned what her speech was about. Then I thought about and talked about it at length for about 8 months. Then I came out of the proverbial closet, and whattya know, I suddenly have a bright future that I had always been pushing aside out of fear. And now I'm honest about who I am. I don't know about you, but I think that's one helluva benefit. In general, I want to say something bluntly. Don't bother posting anything about her MTV speech until you know what it's about. Her point was not to just say "the music industry sucks." Flat-out, you are missing the most important layer of meaning. Saying how the music industry sucks *was only a device to explain why you should go with yourself.* Now, if you understand what it was about, go ahead and make a claim that it was unoriginal. But actually, before you do that, go back and read my reply to the first "it was unoriginal" post. Cause I think that takes care of that. Also, once you know what the speech is really about, I think you can safely retract your idea that "There really is nothing to benefit from," unless you're a complete poser and only go with what you think celebrities think is cool. Some people need the idea that they need to go with themselves knocked into their heads a bit more than others...and that's not a bad thing. No one really purely goes with himself, so it's definitely necessary to regurgitate the issue often. Fi's speech can only be the beginning. And it was certainly a beginning. "This world is bullshit..." sure did catch people's attention. And understaning her speech raises a lot of deep issues about your indivituality when you really apply it to yourself. Try it. That's how you can benefit from it. Ethan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:44:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dawn Ebert Subject: Regarding Madonna Hi. Somebody mentioned Madonna's nomination for best female video, and I would say you don't have to worry about that, because Madonna is nominated for video of the year, which she has a good chance of winning since she has the most nominations and she is performing. And if she wins that, she probably won't get best female video. So I'd be happy if Madonna wins best video, and Fiona wins best female video. : ) Fiona deserves it... that's a great video. ____________________________________________________________ Emily Dawn Ebert )|( edebert@engin.umich.edu )|( ICQ: *Emmy Emily's Madonna Spotlight: http://www.madonnanet.com/emily/ To equate belief with truth is to limit understanding. -<-<-@ ------------------------------ End of apple-tree-digest V1 #31 *******************************