From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V8 #151 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Friday, July 11 2003 Volume 08 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Poe auctions ["Melissa" ] Re:Poe auctions [StphLadd@aol.com] Re: Poe auctions [StphLadd@aol.com] Re: Poe auctions ["Melissa" ] Re: Poe auctions [Miki Proud ] Re: Poe auctions [Candle Scarecrow ] KPR: my Poepinion [Sharonda220@aol.com] Re: Poe auctions ["Megan Denny" ] Re: Poe auctions ["Megan Denny" ] Re: Poe auctions ["DesertOpal" ] VPR: our misstress of groove [spud@poe.org] [none] [Realpoe@aol.com] Re: [Alicia Hackney ] Re: ["Peace of Pie" ] NPR: Prostitution ["Ashley Martindale" ] Re: ["Michael Brame" ] Re: VPR: our misstress of groove [KoiJamas@aol.com] Re: Prostitution [KoiJamas@aol.com] Re: cheer [LolipopFailure@aol.com] Re: cheer ["Ashley Martindale" ] Re: cheer [LolipopFailure@aol.com] Re: [Mark Loit ] NPR:Re: Prostitution [Jeff Thompson ] Re: Re: [Jeff Thompson ] NPR: (don't just delete, read anyway) [Davey08@aol.com] Re: Poe auctions [KrodKnid@aol.com] Re: [Brendles ] Re: [BUDave18@aol.com] Re: [Miki Proud ] Re: ["Michael Allison" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:33:14 -0400 From: "Melissa" Subject: Re: Poe auctions Since I get the digest, I'm going to reply to a few different e-mails in this one. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "DesertOpal" > money or not. More power to her I say. Cash in girl cash in. Not to say sell > out, cuz thats different. But if you have something people love, then damnit > make what you can from it. I guess that's where I differ from your opinion, I think selling access to yourself is selling out. Those who have the $ have access - seems like selling out to me. The "if you have something people love" statement is fine - - if we are talking about the music. Selling yourself is something different. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Pierce, Marshall" > sucks...lol I seriously doubt that she will sell out her music, though the > first time she covers Debbie Gibson, the doubts will start . Hang > tough psychos!! =) But the reason I'm on this list is because of Poe AND her music. If it was just the music, I wouldn't be on the list - I'd be listing to the music, and not involved to this level. I love the music, but I am an AP because of her AND the music. So maybe my problem is the auctioning off access to her makes me think less of her as a person. And as an AP, that bothers me almost as much as her selling out in the music. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Dan98908@aol.com > rather then TRULY being upset with her sharing ( by auction, contest or any way > she should choose) her memorabilia with us. Is she memorabilia? Fine, auction off memorabilia, share, sell it, whatever, but selling access to yourself hardly seems like memorabilia to me. > The REAL frustration, in my opinion, is the lack of communication from an > artist who's very artistic theme IS communication! I love Poe as a person and an > artist, but any suggestion that the lack of touch is due to contractual > issues is just not the case. It saddens me that she would use that as an excuse. Exactly, no communication can make something that she might think is innocent take on a life of it's own. She might think this is no big deal, but with the lack of communication, we are all left to figure out her intentions on our own. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this is a sell out. Maybe it's not her intentions, but from an artist who goes from treating us like family, to cutting us out, and then selling access to herself, it sure seems that way to me and from some of the other e-mails I've read, some of the other APs feel the same way. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Megan Denny" > This is ridiculous and you all should be ashamed of yourself. You have to be kidding, right? Ashamed of what?!? Having an opinion? Thinking that Poe might not be perfect? > avarice of Poe. Do you really think she was out to get thousands of > dollars, and would not be satisfied if it went for $20??? Every naysayer Well, seeing as the starting bid was $1000, yes, it sure seems like she wanted thousands for it. > is taking their fan relationship with Poe for granted. You should be > elated with the fact that you are not only lucky enough to have her music > as a part of your life, but your extreme fortune if you've spent even a > moment of your life in her presence. I'm not taking anything for granted. I'm taking what she has told the APs in the past, and comparing them to the current actions. If anybody is lucky, it's Poe. She's lucky she gets to do what she loves for a living; lucky she has just had the past year off from work; lucky she doesn't need to worry about how to pay the bills; and lucky to have a group of fans that will wait around to support her whenever she needs us. Yes, I love the music, but as good as it is, I won't allow myself to be treated like dirt, and be told to feel ashamed by APs because I'm not as blindly devoted as some others on this list seem to be. A discussion about the merits of the auction, and other opinions about what happened are fine, it's not personal, just different opinions. But a post like this which seems to attack anybody who doesn't agree with your point of view is just rude. Part of what I like about Poe so much is the fact she is a strong woman. Well so am I, and part of being strong is standing up and saying what I feel. Right, wrong, or otherwise, that's what I'm doing. And the last thing I'm going to do is feel ashamed of having an opinion, or voicing it. Poe would do the same thing. I disagree with the sale of the backstage passes. They AREN'T memorabilia, or at least, weren't being sold as that. They were being sold as access to Poe. I wouldn't call that a gift from her. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- See You! Melissa dangerous@missa.info http://www.missa.info ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:04:50 EDT From: StphLadd@aol.com Subject: Re:Poe auctions Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Rachel Proud Subject: Fwd: Re: Poe auctions All we ever want on this list is for Poe to go on tour again or release a new album. Both of these things require quite a bit of funding, but every time Poe does something to rais that money, someone always has to bitch about it (usually the same someone's who always bitch) Having an aucton is NOTHING like "prostituting" yourself and that's a pretty shity thing to say, especially about someone you clame to be a fan of. No one is making any of us be a part of this list and if you are that upset about the whole thing and that upset with Poe, then leave. Poe is a very open artist and shares a lot more than most people in her position, so why not thank her for what she does instead of always having a problem. I'm with Miki. We all know that Poe is still going to meet with people after her shows, even if we don't have a pass. When we are at a show, are the people who are currently bitching going to be the same way to her face? If so, then just stay home. The negative energy is not needed. Leave the poor girl alone. After everything that has gone on with Atlantic and the rights for Haunted, she might like to have some support from us. I for one would by those boots if they were my size. :) ***************************************************************************** * ************************* I just got this email. I don't have ANY problem with an auction. I bought an autographed shirt last year in an auction. I have a problem with the SALE OF ACCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must never have been a fan though. Nope, must not have been a fan because I am voicing my opinion. I guess the purchase of 7 copies of Haunted and 3 copies of Hello must have been a mirage. I guess I was never at any of her shows in 2001. I must have just imagined all of that. Yep, guess I did. Heaven forbid someone criticize an artist. I am a heretic. I must burn at the stake for voicing any concern over the Goddess Poe. Get over it people, she's just a singer and you are just a fan. Get over yourselves!!!!! She isn't a GOD!! I DID forward one of my replies DIRECTLY to Poe. If I saw her, I would voice my concerns to her FACE. If she would have come out and SAID: "Hey, I am having an auction to raise funds for a potential tour or an album and am going to auction of a lifetime pass, NONE of us would have had a problem. It is the SILENCE combined with the SELLING OF ACCESS that I have a problem with. YOU MISS THE WHOLE POINT IN WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for me constantly bitching, I NEVER do. Have you read any emails from me in the last year or so?? NO, I have posted like 3 times since I have been here. I avoid confrontation. I don't like it. I have wrestled with saying anything about the auctions for 2 or so days. The SELLING of access bothers me. If I am any less of a fan for being upset with that, then fine. I must be less of a fan. You win! Stephanie "Nothing in a lifetime is so real." iris~Twilight ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:35:06 EDT From: StphLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Poe auctions Prostitute: 2 : a person (as a writer or painter) who deliberately debases his or her talents (as for money) Taken Merriam-Webster's Dictionary. Stephanie "Nothing in a lifetime is so real." iris~Twilight ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:44:23 -0400 From: "Melissa" Subject: Re: Poe auctions > From: Rachel Proud > someone always has to bitch about it (usually the same someone's who always bitch) Sorry, new bitcher here. Never done it before. Guess it's a disease that's spreading. Opinions, the damn evil things. Started with Stephanie's post, followed by me and others. And the funny thing is, I don't remember Stephanie or any of these others complaining about anything before this. But instead of focusing on the issues we have, isn't it just easier to dismiss us as always complaining. > Having an aucton is NOTHING like "prostituting" yourself and that's a pretty shity thing to say, especially about someone you clame to be a fan of. Oh, so now, because I disagree, it's a shitty thing to say? The auction of items isn't the main issue, it's the SALE OF ACCESS TO POE. What do you call a woman who charges for her company....... last time I looked up musician in the dictionary, that's not the definition I got. > No one is making any of us be a part of this list and if you are that upset about the whole thing and that upset with Poe, then leave. So, now it's an agree or get off the list attitude? Nice. > Poe is a very open artist and shares a lot more than most people in her position, so why not thank her for what she does instead of always having a problem. Again, what's this always have a problem. Please, tell me what other problems I've had. I would like to know. > When we are at a show, are the people who are currently bitching going to be the same way to her face? If so, then just stay home. The negative energy is not needed. I would tell Poe all of this stuff to her face. These are my opinions, my thoughts, and my feelings. If a friend, family member, or anybody else had a problem with me, I would hope they would share it as well. I will not kiss Poe's ass just because she happens to be a talented musician. And the negative energy is already out there. I feel it and others on this list feel it. Discussing it, or voicing it to Poe isn't creating negative energy - it's a way to remove it through communication and understanding. > Leave the poor girl alone. After everything that has gone on with Atlantic and the rights for Haunted, she might like to have some support from us. And if she asked for my support, she would get it. But she didn't ask the AP's for anything. She asked the people on her e-mail list for money for a backstage pass. Not support, but cash. See You! Melissa dangerous@missa.info http://www.missa.info ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:06:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Miki Proud Subject: Re: Poe auctions - --- Brian Edwards wrote: > > > If I'd had > >the cash, I'd have bid my life savings on the > thing, > >but I'm still pretty sure that I'll get to hang > with > >her next time I go to a concert. > > I would have snatched it up too. How do you know > you'd get to see her after > a concert anyway? Because I've been to many a Poe concert in my time, and I've always gotten to see her afterwards (along with a lot of other people). As long as you're willing to freeze your ass off in a parking lot for a couple hours, Poe doesn't give a shit if you have a backstage pass. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ===== "Be who you are and say what you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - --Dr. Suess __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Candle Scarecrow Subject: Re: Poe auctions blah blah blah everyone just chill... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:39:05 -0400 From: Sharonda220@aol.com Subject: KPR: my Poepinion Hey psychos, Nice to have something to read on my lunch break. I agree with whoever said that maybe not all the money is going to poe. I didn't think that when I saw the auction, i thought manager's etc. I thought stars as wonderful as our poe had people who could do that stuff for them, so she might not even really know too much about it. I don't mind that she is taking a break at all, i have two full Cds(actually more than that including singles etc) of awesome music to listen to and it gives me time to explore other artists etc. i'd rather wait five years for another awesome Cd than have her churning out a new CD every year like britney (no, i am not a britney hater). but.... then again...i might not be so patient now if poe hadn't stayed two summers ago at the house of blues until she got to see everyone in line...and i was one of the last people in line so waiting in that line......she could have been off doing way cooler things but she stayed even though her manager/people said she probably would not have time. so....i am still happy. :) good work takes time :) there is nothing wrong with being impatient though lol. shari ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:54:09 -0500 From: "Megan Denny" Subject: Re: Poe auctions - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:05:44 -0500 From: "Megan Denny" Subject: Re: Poe auctions I thought I had clarified before but I guess in conflict people read what they want to read. The only true problem I've had is the attack of someone we all claim to love to the point of comparing her to a prostitute when we know absolutely nothing more than a pass was put up on auction. I just don't think that's very fair to Poe... But I think we've now all agreed to disagree. There's some that think she's a money sucking whore, then there's the actual person who coughed up a couple thousand dollars for the pass. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Megan Denny" > This is ridiculous and you all should be ashamed of yourself. You have to be kidding, right? Ashamed of what?!? Having an opinion? Thinking that Poe might not be perfect? > avarice of Poe. Do you really think she was out to get thousands of > dollars, and would not be satisfied if it went for $20??? Every naysayer Well, seeing as the starting bid was $1000, yes, it sure seems like she wanted thousands for it. > is taking their fan relationship with Poe for granted. You should be > elated with the fact that you are not only lucky enough to have her music > as a part of your life, but your extreme fortune if you've spent even a > moment of your life in her presence. I'm not taking anything for granted. I'm taking what she has told the APs in the past, and comparing them to the current actions. If anybody is lucky, it's Poe. She's lucky she gets to do what she loves for a living; lucky she has just had the past year off from work; lucky she doesn't need to worry about how to pay the bills; and lucky to have a group of fans that will wait around to support her whenever she needs us. Yes, I love the music, but as good as it is, I won't allow myself to be treated like dirt, and be told to feel ashamed by APs because I'm not as blindly devoted as some others on this list seem to be. A discussion about the merits of the auction, and other opinions about what happened are fine, it's not personal, just different opinions. But a post like this which seems to attack anybody who doesn't agree with your point of view is just rude. Part of what I like about Poe so much is the fact she is a strong woman. Well so am I, and part of being strong is standing up and saying what I feel. Right, wrong, or otherwise, that's what I'm doing. And the last thing I'm going to do is feel ashamed of having an opinion, or voicing it. Poe would do the same thing. I disagree with the sale of the backstage passes. They AREN'T memorabilia, or at least, weren't being sold as that. They were being sold as access to Poe. I wouldn't call that a gift from her. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- See You! Melissa dangerous@missa.info http://www.missa.info - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:10:13 -0700 From: "DesertOpal" Subject: Re: Poe auctions From: "Candle Scarecrow" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:24 AM Subject: Re: Poe auctions > > blah blah blah > > everyone just chill... Hell yes, the voice of reason. Whooo-Hooooo seems like one of those snowbally type thingys aye? hahaha. I think, (in my insignificant little opinion) that everyone just needs to chill. Poe's life is her own to lead as she see's fit. How many of us could stand up to someone viewing our every action beneath a microscope? Examining our every motivation, and imagined reason for everything we do? Not many I'd wager. I'm a fan, not a judge. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:51:30 -0700 From: spud@poe.org Subject: VPR: our misstress of groove From: john hattin Hello fellow angry psychos, I first became an AP back in 95 or 96 when i heard Poe on the radio with angryjohnny, i didnt become a registered/subscribed AP until a few years ago the first time i saw any mention of poe besides when her song was being played on the radio was on a tv show about computers, and it was about how she was using the internet to talk to her fans, and i thought to myself how fucking cool is that?! shit like Launch and MTV hadnt used the internet yet to play videos and net broadcasts or interviews back then; and here was Poe talking to her fans via the net, no expensive fan clubs to pay dues to or anything. later i stumbled into #poe and met all kinds of cool APs there who convinced me to join this list and i got one of the coolest email addresses ever a @poe.org! and i heard all kinds of cool stories about poe actually coming in every once in a while and talking to APs there in chat, unfucking believeable; unfortunatelty I havent seen her pop in since. #poe is pretty vacant these days, it went from 40 or so pretty damn active psychos to just me and a bot, and now my bot got bored and doesnt even come around, it used to be thriving conversation about poes music and tours and poe and fellow AP friends going on all hours of the day, and now almost nothing but silence, no more trout slaps or cookies or AP salutes... I and other rabid angry psychos called and emailed countless requests for the Haunted singles to be played on the radio, it was quite fun getting her on the air. The d mode/pro v tours were damn good. And the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame show was fucking spectacular, even if MTV did botch the hell out of its broadcast. Only one video and a remix off Haunted i saw on, its too bad more werent made, I would have loved to have seen a 9+ minute video for Wild, 15% of a whole hour of poe video on TV goddamn!!! sadly the same thing with this list, almost everyone ive talked to lately has switched to digest or gone off the list completely; theres very little poe news, stories, or much of anything going on. its not Poe's fault, or johnny's or angie's or mine or yours or anybody's; i dont think anyone here wants to blame or be blamed for all this confusion and frustration. I dont think anyone is to blame, its just how things have happened. I'm sadden by all this of course, and I would kind of like to know why it has happened; we're all a big family and we all love poe and what she has given us with her wonderful music. why has our family become so undone and scattered? i dont think an AP here wouldnt help our mistress of groove if she asked for it. I know i'd give her the shirt off my back if she asked, but then again i have a damn sexy tummy and perky nipples which i dont mind showing off once in a while ;-]. back on topic: Poe if you need our help, all you have to do is ask, you have our support and love and most importantly our friendship, please dont give it up. If you need time off from touring or recording, just tell us, im sure we can wait another year. Its this unknowing which haunts us, I'm not saying you have to give us daily reports or anything, but dont leave us out in the dark. Going on a vacation? great send us a postcard ;-] we just want to hear from you a little more often, drop us a line or pop in #poe, we really do care about you and are extremely curious wabout how things are going for you. To poe and my fellow angry psychos, email the list and tell us some of your favorite poe memories hope you have a great day :-] - - spud@poe.org - ===== +-------------------+ | http://spud77.com | +-------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:42:23 -0400 From: Realpoe@aol.com Subject: [none] Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this country? xoxo Poe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Alicia Hackney Subject: Re: Well I don't believe what's going on with the auctions is prostitution, its making honest money which we all have to do. As for real prostitution... while I don't approve of it and think its wrong so many are getting away with it might as well be legal (it shouldn't be legal but if it was it'd be no different than now). ^,-,^ That's my 2.5". Kaden - --- Realpoe@aol.com wrote: > > Question: Do you think that prostitution should be > legalized in this country? > > xoxo Poe ===== Kadens useless qoute of the day: Two lefts and a jumper cable makes a masochist... and an interesting situation __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:07:11 -0500 From: "Peace of Pie" Subject: Re: In my book, prostitution falls into the pro-choice category. I believe in the right to choose. I choose to smoke, I choose to drink caffeine, I choose to get up and go to work everyday, and I choose to stay on this list. I suppose if I felt the need to exchange sex for goods, well I'd like to know I had the right to choose to do so. Now if we could just get those marijuana laws overturned ... we're even facing a cigarette ban here, choosing is losing. Damnit. Julie - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:42 PM > > Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this country? > > xoxo Poe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:07:48 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Ashley Martindale" Subject: NPR: Prostitution Of course. . . tax it, and feed the hungry..It might keep a lot of people out of trouble. I have no problem with it at all. As a matter of fact, = I think I'll be a pimp!!=0D =0D Ashley [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:20:39 -0500 From: "Michael Brame" Subject: Re: Interesting... Ok, I'll bite. I do think prostitution should be legalized since who a person shares their company with and *why* is their own concern. As long as no others are being harmed by the situation and there is consent all around, definitely. Just because someone trades something for money does not mean that they have to stop sharing it with the ones they love, right? RevMike Not posting drunk for once! Wow... >From: Realpoe@aol.com >To: Angry-psychos@smoe.org >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:42:23 -0400 > > >Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this >country? > >xoxo Poe _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:23:31 EDT From: KoiJamas@aol.com Subject: Re: VPR: our misstress of groove In a message dated 7/11/2003 3:01:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spud@poe.org writes: > And > the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame show was fucking > spectacular Except... Even when I rushed to the front... The pretty people in black pushed me aside. I still cry about it at night. It's one of my ten defining moments. Well, not to that extreme... - -Bridget ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:33:57 EDT From: KoiJamas@aol.com Subject: Re: Prostitution There are plenty of promiscuous people in the world... Oh, what the hell... I'm not going to go into a big speech. There will always be prostitution, drug use, driving motorcycles without helmets (hey, it used to be a law here - - stopped a lot of stupid lawsuits), curfew breaking... Any sort of crime. Not much anyone can do to stop it, but I don't think it should be legalized. I'd hate to see any prostitute become a victim to violence or even catch an STD. No amount of money is worth that. ...Is it? Well, that's my opinion. No offense... - -Bridget ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:34:59 EDT From: LolipopFailure@aol.com Subject: Re: cheer haha, i fucking love you poe. after all the long posts that go on for days, for and against you, you speak out with your definitive one liner. classic. :-) ...and the way the rain comes down hard...that's how i feel inside.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:39:21 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Ashley Martindale" Subject: Re: cheer evasive if you ask me...=0D =0D =0D - -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: LolipopFailure@aol.com=0D Date: Friday, July 11, 2003 4:36:08 PM=0D To: Realpoe@aol.com; angry-psychos@smoe.org=0D Subject: Re: cheer=0D =0D haha, i fucking love you poe. after all the long posts that go on for day= s, =0D for and against you, you speak out with your definitive one liner. classi= c. =0D :-)=0D =0D =2E...and the way the rain comes down hard...that's how i feel inside....= =0D =2E=20 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:42:15 EDT From: LolipopFailure@aol.com Subject: Re: cheer "evasive if you ask me...=0D" she didn't have to reply at all you know :-) ...and the way the rain comes down hard...that's how i feel inside.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:56:26 -0400 From: Mark Loit Subject: Re: Actually it's a great question. First let's define prostitution, so we're all on the same page: pros7ti7tu7tion [Audio pronunciation of prostitution] ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prst-tshn, -ty-) n. 1. The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire. 2. The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an unworthy use or cause. [the above from dictionary.com] The first definition is the one most commonly used in todays society. Though the second one is probably the more accurate and correct definition. The first can still be defined by the second by defining sexual talent as unworthy. Should a person be allowed to sell themselves as a sexual service? I would have to say yes. People sell themselves on their various talents every day to earn a living. (Musicians, artists, engineers, actors, doctors, etc) Why should people with a talent for sex be any different? It really shouldn't. The act is harmless to others, and if both parties are willing, it is harmless to the participants as well. It's about the freedom to choose. If someone decides to follow this path, even though I would not choose to do so, I do not have the right to tell them that they can't because it has no possible way of affecting me directly or indirectly. Some might claim that prostitution demoralizes women, but that is only because today we consider that behavior socially unacceptable, had we been more accepting, I doubt anyone would make the same claims. Just because I disagree with someones career choice, or I wouldn't use their services, doesn't make it an unworthy venture. Why is selling sex unacceptable, while selling a massage is? Both derive pleasure for the recipient in different ways. Neither harm anyone else and neither have tangible results. So why is one legal while the other not? it's a hard question to answer when we are trying ever so hard to separate church from state. Yet morals are largely based on religion, and the law that declares the sale of sex illegal, is definitely a law of morality. We are slowly evolving to accept more and more things that do not harm others as still being acceptable, and no longer immoral, perhaps someday prostitution will fall into this same category. Today, we would certainly consider the sale of sex as immoral, but yet we tend not to consider premarital sex as immoral anymore. Social morals have evolved over time to become more open and free, should we not consider sex for money on the same terms as premarital sex? In a world that tries to promote freedom of the individual should one not be able to chose their own career, provided that it does not harm or otherwise interfere in someone elses life? Just because it's not a life we would choose for ourselves should not deem a profession either immoral or illegal or otherwise unworthy. Just my 2 cents worth Mark [The Canadian Avenger] At 04:42 PM 7/11/03, Realpoe@aol.com wrote: >Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this country? > >xoxo Poe ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 2003 23:11:29 +0100 From: Jeff Thompson Subject: NPR:Re: Prostitution I would agree with not wanting to see any prostitute become a victim of violence and would love to see less STDs in any part of the population. But that is why I want it to be legalised. By being legal you don't have to worry about where the trade is done it can be regulated with health checks and standards and the cost of administering the health checks and regulations could come from the taxes on the income from the trade. Also the age people become prostitutes could be controlled helping the young people that get trapped in the streets. Also at the end of it all there is freedom why do we have laws that stop us from doing things that society feel is immoral when it does not extend past ourselves. Granted crime can be related to drug use but is the drug use illegal or is the crime committed illegal. If I do a drug is that a crime. Or is it a crime that I steal something either to fund my drug use. But at the end of the day the true solution is really to educate more people to a higher standard. The more people know the better they can make decisions and avoid some of the traps that appear in the cracks of society. JT On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 22:33, KoiJamas@aol.com wrote: > There are plenty of promiscuous people in the world... Oh, what the hell... > I'm not going to go into a big speech. There will always be prostitution, drug > use, driving motorcycles without helmets (hey, it used to be a law here > - stopped a lot of stupid lawsuits), curfew breaking... Any sort of crime. > Not much anyone can do to stop it, but I don't think it should be legalized. I'd > hate to see any prostitute become a victim to violence or even catch an STD. > No amount of money is worth that. ...Is it? Well, that's my opinion. No > offense... > -Bridget ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 2003 23:14:52 +0100 From: Jeff Thompson Subject: Re: Re: The second definition is a more modern use of the word and came from people comparing the act of selling their talent to an unworthy cause to the oldest profession. So I would not say it is an accurate or correct definition in a etymological sense but may be a better definition in the destructive nature of the act from a moral, philosophical and spiritual sense. JT On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 22:56, Mark Loit wrote: > Actually it's a great question. > > First let's define prostitution, so we're all on the same page: > > pros7ti7tu7tion [Audio pronunciation of prostitution] ( P > ) Pronunciation Key (prst-tshn, -ty-) > n. > > 1. The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire. > 2. The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an > unworthy use or cause. > > [the above from dictionary.com] > > The first definition is the one most commonly used in todays society. > Though the second one is probably the more accurate and correct definition. > The first can still be defined by the second by defining sexual talent as > unworthy. > > Should a person be allowed to sell themselves as a sexual service? I would > have to say yes. People sell themselves on their various talents every day > to earn a living. (Musicians, artists, engineers, actors, doctors, etc) Why > should people with a talent for sex be any different? It really shouldn't. > The act is harmless to others, and if both parties are willing, it is > harmless to the participants as well. It's about the freedom to choose. If > someone decides to follow this path, even though I would not choose to do > so, I do not have the right to tell them that they can't because it has no > possible way of affecting me directly or indirectly. Some might claim that > prostitution demoralizes women, but that is only because today we consider > that behavior socially unacceptable, had we been more accepting, I doubt > anyone would make the same claims. Just because I disagree with someones > career choice, or I wouldn't use their services, doesn't make it an > unworthy venture. > > Why is selling sex unacceptable, while selling a massage is? Both derive > pleasure for the recipient in different ways. Neither harm anyone else and > neither have tangible results. So why is one legal while the other not? > it's a hard question to answer when we are trying ever so hard to separate > church from state. Yet morals are largely based on religion, and the law > that declares the sale of sex illegal, is definitely a law of morality. We > are slowly evolving to accept more and more things that do not harm others > as still being acceptable, and no longer immoral, perhaps someday > prostitution will fall into this same category. Today, we would certainly > consider the sale of sex as immoral, but yet we tend not to consider > premarital sex as immoral anymore. Social morals have evolved over time to > become more open and free, should we not consider sex for money on the same > terms as premarital sex? > > In a world that tries to promote freedom of the individual should one not > be able to chose their own career, provided that it does not harm or > otherwise interfere in someone elses life? Just because it's not a life we > would choose for ourselves should not deem a profession either immoral or > illegal or otherwise unworthy. > > Just my 2 cents worth > > Mark > [The Canadian Avenger] > > > At 04:42 PM 7/11/03, Realpoe@aol.com wrote: > > >Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this country? > > > >xoxo Poe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:35:16 EDT From: Davey08@aol.com Subject: NPR: (don't just delete, read anyway) Please visit my new site, you guys! This site is like some of the e-mail polls you guys have set up in the past. Check it out. http://www.geocities.com/daveharty/wwyd/ Dave Harty [Zampanosdead] Dave est mon nom Zampano est l'auteur Poe est mon Diesse Je ne parle pas De frangais - -> http://get.to/poesplace <- http://www.geocities.com/run_rom_run/houseofleaves.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/House_of_Leaves "Dans la maison, l'obscuriti me consommera." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:39:23 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: Poe auctions In a message dated 7/11/2003 2:06:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sailor_mercury04@hotmail.com writes: There's some that think she's a money sucking whore, then there's the actual person who coughed up a couple thousand dollars for the pass. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hell, maybe she's strung out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Brendles Subject: Re: Legalize it, give the sex workers room, board and great health care, tax it and use the proceeds to help others. Viva la choice. Bren Realpoe@aol.com wrote: Question: Do you think that prostitution should be legalized in this country? xoxo Poe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:48:08 EDT From: BUDave18@aol.com Subject: Re: libertarians of the world unite!! from a proud, card-carrying Lib! lp.org pce seb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Miki Proud Subject: Re: yay! Libertarians! Me too me too. For the record though, I live in Nevada, so prostitution's already legalized. We've had brothels for a while now. - --- Brendles wrote: > > Legalize it, give the sex workers room, board and > great health care, tax it and use the proceeds to > help others. Viva la choice. > > Bren > > > Realpoe@aol.com wrote: > > Question: Do you think that prostitution should be > legalized in this country? > > xoxo Poe ===== "Be who you are and say what you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - --Dr. Suess __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:46:56 -0700 From: "Michael Allison" Subject: Re: Hahahaha... you go, Poe. Why did they make prostitution illegal anyway? With hope, someday in this great nation there will be a little girl (hell, maybe even a boy!) in some town who just wants to engage in sex for money when he or she grows up. Well, maybe someday that little boy or girl's dream will come true. They say that in America you can be whatever you want to be. Except a prostitute. What's up with that? I don't see anything wrong with it. I also haven't heard any horrid reports from Nevada... it seems to be working just fine there. If you build it [a brothel], they will come. Hell, it'd get them off the streets! - -Michael smileyllama _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V8 #151 ***********************************