From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V7 #206 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Wednesday, July 24 2002 Volume 07 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: NPR: What to do? [Kevin Intoen ] Re: NPR: patriotism forward [Kevin Intoen ] Re: Explosive Devices [Kevin Intoen ] Re: NPR: Kitties and Kiddies [Kevin Intoen ] sorta PR: Great Expectations sndtrk... ["Chris Sommers" ] Re: NPR: patriotism forward [Kevin Intoen ] There and Back again, a response to that which is [CtProse10@aol.com] NPR!!!!!!!!Re: There and Back again, a response to that which is [Alex Subject: Re: NPR: What to do? Ed, if you play golf, there's a lot of golf courses around that area..and of course, the beach :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:01:37 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: NPR: patriotism forward I'm in a hurry to go to sleep so I'll make this short. As for the first part, I agree. English is our main language and we should expect everybody to learn it. On the other hand, we teach German, French, and Spanish in our schools, and I think that's a good thing. Hell, we should branch out. Chinese? Esperanto? Now, on to the second. Here's what I have to say about it, in a nutshell: Balls to your god. It sure as hell is NOT part of our culture except where the Bible-toting fanatics have forced their way in (see Andrea's (?) post about our national motto being changed from E Pluribus Unum, etc.) I suggest you look at our founding fathers, a good number of them considered the Bible to be nothing more than a cheap novel, except for when they had to profess piety to stay in office. But isn't that the case with all politicians? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:05:16 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: Explosive Devices Wow, that sucks. I feel sorry for the kid. What nobody else asked, though, and what had me curious, was what was she doing lighting a candle for breakfast? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:21:18 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: NPR: Kitties and Kiddies > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:06:24 +0000 > From: tohaveaplan@att.net > Subject: NPR: Kitties and Kiddies > > I just wanted to write and say that I appreciate the > post of the Clay County Prosecutor's information. Not > only was this story terribly sad but it came on the > heels of the story about the 5-y-o kid abducted and > found a copule days later in California. > > I personally think anyone who has the time or energy to > write a letter about something as small as a kitten, as > tragic as a child, or as complex and disconcerting as > saving the planet or feeding the world, should get out > their pens and stationary (or soap box) and express > themselves to their heart's content. I never said anything about not expressing her(your) self, if that's what you're implying; but if you accept that she has a right to express her opinion then you implicitly accept that I have a right to express mine :) > > There is certainly no shortage of causes in the world > and I understand when people make statements like "why > don't you spend you time on something more important." Exactly. > The amount of problems in this world can truly become > overwhelming. But if we can make an example out of > people that BBQ (or in TX & ME microwave) kitties ...this is where I have to disagree with you. "Make an example out of"? Oh come on, that's just the "vengeance on behalf of" thing again. Here's what I don't get. The general consensus on this list seems to be that the guy has mental problems. But the general consensus also seems to be that he deserves above and beyond the legal penalties his action can incur. This is where I just stop and say "what the fuck?" Don't you think it stands to reason that if someone is mentally ill, you try to cure them? You don't punish them because of their illness. > perhaps that grain or respect learned for a small > creature will prevent other kiddy stories from becoming > a reality. While it's sad, I have yet to see a link from the child molestation case to the kitty barbecueing case. You're simply being unreasonable and emotional. > In closing, I would just like to ask others out there if > they think there should be some concerted effort out > there to teach respect for others? I don't know if this Again -- you have to draw the line somewhere, and I say we draw it between humans and animals. In a world where we use animals for as many things as we do, can you REALLY look a kid in the eye and tell them with a straight face that animals have rights too? > should be led by government created public service > announcements (ala "I am an American" commercials); by > rockers who rave against violence or for humanity (think I think that's pretty much your standard "write off on our taxes charity stuff"; I see anti-violence campaigns and commercials all the time on tv and in magazines. Hell, watch MTV for five minutes and you'll more likely than not see an MTV stop the violence campaign ad. Sandwiched between two gangsta rap videos, of course. > Farm aid); or by a grassroots organization with some > really clever bumper stickers. But is anyone else > really concerned about our society's degradation and I don't think society has degraded at all. We're much better in a lot of ways, and a lot shittier in others. I don't think society ever gets worse or better, it just...changes. For instance, what were civil rights like for non-whites in the "good old days" (ie, the 50's)? > thinking something has to be done? > > Hence, I step down from my own soapbox. > ABC > [snip] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:30:21 -0400 From: "Chris Sommers" Subject: sorta PR: Great Expectations sndtrk... So yea, I just got the Great Expectations soundtrack finally. I had already heard Today and Siren by my two favorite ladies, Tori and POE. But I have to say, I love Pulp's song and Lauren Christy's song. So I went to Amazon to check them out and they have tons of albums out. Seeing as I'm AYP (angry, young and poor) I can't buy them all at once. So if anyone's familiar with these two artists/bands and have recomendations... shoot. Chris _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: PoePunkPrincess Subject: Re: NPR: patriotism forward Kevin Intoen wrote: Hell, we should branch out. Chinese? Esperanto? I completely agree. My High School did offer classes in Japanese and we had MANY foreign exchange students attend, so I picked up a little bit of their languages there. That was probably the only thing I liked about High School. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:34:37 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: NPR: patriotism forward Nice. Wish they had that when I went to HS, it would've been a lot easier to watch hentai^H^H^H^H^H^Hanime :) Actually..I think a foreign language is a requirement to graduate in most high schools these days, but I could be wrong. On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 12:22:37PM -0700, PoePunkPrincess wrote: > > > Kevin Intoen wrote: > > Hell, we should branch > out. Chinese? Esperanto? > > > > I completely agree. My High School did offer classes in Japanese and we had MANY foreign exchange students attend, so I picked up a little bit of their languages there. That was probably the only thing I liked about High School. > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:48:35 EDT From: CtProse10@aol.com Subject: There and Back again, a response to that which is There and Back again, a response to that which is i have remained fairly silent recently. i just got back from a 4-day LAN [local area network [computer]] party, and i was quite suprised when i took a look at my inbox... 128 new messages. i just finished reading through them all. i attempted to keep my mind open to what people have to say. and i came to a few conclusions... 1. From what has been stated, it is all the white man's fault. If our forefathers were asian everything would be better. [ i am white, and i disagree with this, i don't think pigment means a damn thing... Well, certain shades make you more resistant to skin cancer...] 2. I see arrogance, and ignorance. People state their "vast" historical knowledge, and I am slightly amused, yet sadened that some people believe in such false hoods. No i am not saying religion is false. I am saying, that this country was founded by a god bearing people. People left their contries seeking refuge from religous opression. Christians left seeking to expand to a different church that was illegal in their country. People of other religions and nationalities left for other reasons... Its not that i think that this country is or is not bound to religion, or founded on it. It is that it is. As are many of our cultural beliefs, and views of society. Many people are appoled [s/p] by the thought or idealogy of a God like figure. Many people have many reasons. [note that the following are not the only, just mere examples in the great multitude.] Some are afraid to admit that there is someone something that is above them. Some who are insecure as to think that they are their own god. In relation to my last statement, no man is his own god. The ideal of a god in our society, and present religions is that a god like figure is peacefull, accepting, loving twoards all, forgives, understands etc. A man is not his own god because a man does not have these traits. We may put on a show, forgive someone for it is the proper thing to do. But it is not our nature... For we are not God. Society in its deapest form is founded on religion. Back in the days of the Greeks and Romans. To the days of Sumer and the Babylonians [Chaldeans, although the Chaldeans existed at a later point in history [as compaired to the Babylonians. Chaldeans are in essence, the later date Babylonian Empire]. The persian empire. The dynasties of China. To the lands of east Rome [Constantinople [founded by the Roman emperor Constantine]. Even to the rise of Europe, the tribes and countries in africa. The list could go on. But my point is thus: every nation, tribe, community, village, villa, and manor in history was closely related to religion. That is not to say that all citizens believed in the religions of the times, it is to say that they are their, and very prevalent in culture. Generally speaking, culture and religion are related. Culture is based and built around religion. If your culture does not have religion, does not as a whole have anything to believe in. Then your culture will not survive. West Rome fell. Not from the outside. It degenerated, rotted from the inside. Of course the Germanic tribes gave the final shove, West Rome was already on its death bed. East Rome though remained. Fueled by strong rulers, and a very close relation of church and state. Many ancient culters had a seperate Government, and Church. So there was a never ending power strugle... But east Rome combined them, and in everpresent danger, survived for another 1000 years before being overwhelmed by the turks, and betrayed to the greed of the europeans. [4th "crusade"] So my very long and drawn out point is thus: The idea and worship of a god or godlike figure in Society has been present since the first spawning of civilization. As it shall be in the future to come. As technology increases, we are lead to beleave that we are self sufficient, that we need no god to provide for us. If we are so good, so great that we can rise above all. That in the end humanity is its own savior. Well then, please explain to me how, and when we shall save ourselves. And as you may say, if you detest the idea of god, and you think there is no other above yourself. You are the peak, the human, your own god. Then why, oh why are you the way you are? We are constantly looking outside of ourselves. Looking for the sliver in the eye of or breathren. Looking at the faults and misgivings of others, and are so concerned about what goes on around us, and above us. I shall say this: examine yourself, remove the plank from our own eye before you move to the next... There is more that I could say. I am very capable continuing on with my thoughts on Culture, Religion, and certain Philosophies. But I shall take my leave of you all for now. Thank you all for the time and patience it took to read this. Some people will agree, some wont, and some wont care. I just thought I would share my thoughts... I am starting to dealve deeper into house of leaves. I am much enjoying the book, very well done. I have more to say, but again i must take my leave of you... Thanx for your time All the best Christopher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:28:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Subject: NPR!!!!!!!!Re: There and Back again, a response to that which is In case anyone missed it in the subject Tyrades like this need to be prefaced with NPR. -Alex ===== - -The views and or advertisements to follow are not necessarily those of the sender. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:47:07 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: There and Back again, a response to that which is In a message dated 7/23/2002 3:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CtProse10@aol.com writes: > I am saying, that > this country was founded by a god bearing people. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Hahaha...I hope that "bearing" was a typo for "fearing". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:49:07 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: There and Back again, a response to that which is In a message dated 7/23/2002 3:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CtProse10@aol.com writes: > 2. I see arrogance, and ignorance. People state their "vast" historical > knowledge, and I am slightly amused, yet sadened that some people believe > in > such false hoods. No i am not saying religion is false. I am saying, that > > this country was founded by a god bearing people. People left their > contries > seeking refuge from religous opression. Christians left seeking to expand > to > a different church that was illegal in their country. People of other > religions and nationalities left for other reasons... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, a number of the important founding fathers of the Revolutionary War era were deists. Deists believe in God, but think God just made everything and then let it do what it would. They don't believe in any kind of divine intervention. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:03:32 -0400 From: "Andrea E. Jackman" Subject: Re: NPR: There and Back again In a message dated 7/23/2002 3:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CtProse10@aol.com writes: I am saying, that this country was founded by a god bearing people. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KrodKnid@aol.com writes: Hahaha...I hope that "bearing" was a typo for "fearing". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually i hope it wasn't. " Some are afraid to admit that there is someone something that is above them. Some who are insecure as to think that they are their own god. In relation to my last statement, no man is his own god. The ideal of a god in our society, and present religions is that a god like figure is peacefull, accepting, loving twoards all, forgives, understands etc. A man is not his own god because a man does not have these traits. We may put on a show, forgive someone for it is the proper thing to do. But it is not our nature... For we are not God." no offense, but that's tiresome. and i would say don't get me started but fuck it, it's on, i'm off. i'm as secure as they come. a (wo)(hu)man has these traits. they are god-like. no such thing as blasphemy either. and that read like a biblical sermon. i tuned out before it begun. i'm a god, i was born. actually, i was an atheist, until I realized I was God. check it --- NO ONE is keeping score there is NO someone or something to answer to save your mother, father, family, lover, cat, and occasionally, when hard pressed, --- your country. oh, and your conscience. some connection of interrelated energy exists, but the rest just doesn't get it baby. and no amount of poetry is going to convince me thus. and so much for attempting historical accuracy and being faulted for it. and also begin called arrogant. if i'm going to stand as an arrogant female, i better goddamn well be accurate. try being more direct. i'm not afraid of friendly fire. then again, i think i read some history in the above mentioned bit as well, so --- yeah, hypocrisy. The only valid point amidst the stumbling of misspellings, (which, i'm sorry for mentioning, but i take VERY seriously when constructing an argument in essay form) was that yes, indeedy, god exists in every civilization. Arguing that 'it's' presence or non-presence is a case for a society's success or failure does not seem very well argued or documented. And also, i don't care. It's impossible to talk about god without discussing the nature of whatever it is, or contemplating origin or very existence (if at all) It always spirals that way. Evolutionary scientists have long suggested and argued with Creationists that belief in God, which is a common trait found in human societies around the world and throughout history, may be built into the brain's complex electrical circuitry as a Darwinian adaptation to encourage co-operation between individuals. That TOTALLY make sense to me. This reasoning seems far more plausible an explanation. The rest is just arguesome details and battles fought over which god is correct and more palatable in which mind. It is also believed that it's has always been there, that some people are simply hard-wired for religious belief. Historians speculate that religion may have developed as a self-policing mechanism but grew stronger and adapted --- as if religious conviction started out as a good idea to keep the peace and prosperity, eventually becoming "part of the system," developing into a communication line set-up to transmit and receive God. And then there's the "god module." Scientists suggestion that there may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion and this may have evolved to impose order and stability on society. But i won't bore you with more on that, research it yourself if curious. http://www.parascope.com/articles/slips/fs22_3.htm A PLACE TO BEGIN . . . Generalities and undercurrents affect perception, societal ethics, and most importantly the day-to-day struggle of the human race to reach happiness, understanding and enlightenment. But I keep in mind that all perceptions are written by people, and religious leaders are people and the Pope is just a man and we are all subject to and of each others thoughts and opinions and actions. So they might as well be pleasant ones. And really --- i'm into quantum realities, the interconnectedness of all things, and now place to end . . . some amusement. i always find myself going back to Robert A. Heinlein, in The Notebooks of Lazarus Long . . . dig: "History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it. " "The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history." "Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." "Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated out of nothing, "blasphemy" is the most amazing -- with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure" fighting it out for second and third place. "The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful. " "Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful -- just stupid.) " "God split himself into a myriad parts that he might have friends." This may not be true, but it sounds good -- and is no sillier than any other theology." "God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent -- it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills." ///Andrea littleREDelf get on wit yo bad self ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:37:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Cyberfan Corporation Subject: Download POE Stuff from Direct Connect The Direct Connect POE Resours... a.k.a SHN.POE.ORG is onlin and active. As long as there are people connected, it won't go down... All the vital information on downloading good POE Shit is available at http://www.poe.org/info-audio.html *** Cheers... ******************************************************************* JK/// Jarrod Kniff Cyberfan Corporation jarrod@cyberfan.com ******************************************************************* Site of The Year... http://www.shakedown.st ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:42:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Cyberfan Corporation Subject: Re: Download POE Stuff from Direct Connect Sorry for the blatant mistakes in the following message... I have been told that in email, if you have poor grammar and misspelled words, peole will look more closely to the message. ******************************************************************* JK/// Jarrod Kniff Cyberfan Corporation jarrod@cyberfan.com ******************************************************************* http://www.poe.org http://www.shakedown.st ******************************************************************* On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Cyberfan Corporation wrote: > > The Direct Connect POE Resours... a.k.a SHN.POE.ORG is onlin and active. > > As long as there are people connected, it won't go down... All the vital > information on downloading good POE Shit is available at > http://www.poe.org/info-audio.html > > *** > Cheers... > > ******************************************************************* > > JK/// > Jarrod Kniff > Cyberfan Corporation > jarrod@cyberfan.com > > ******************************************************************* > Site of The Year... > http://www.shakedown.st > ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:56:24 EDT From: NoisyPollution@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR: patriotism forward In a message dated 7/23/02 2:35:23 PM Central Daylight Time, jak@ircii.org writes: > Actually..I think a foreign language is a requirement to graduate in most > It is, I have to have two units of French (or Spanish) to graduate. I took Latin for two years also, but it didn't count as a Foreign language. I guess because it's the "dead language." I liked it a lot better than French, though. I hate this kind of light rawk crap. It's way too happy, way too sappy, way too crappy for me. What a hideous guitar sound. It's less interesting than the storyline of the worst porno ever made. It's worse than food poisoning.- Buzz Osborne on a Weezer song. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:17:25 EDT From: CtProse10@aol.com Subject: Re: There and Back again, a response to that which is In a message dated 7/23/02 4:49:07 PM Central Daylight Time, Krod Knid writes: > Actually, a number of the important founding fathers of the Revolutionary > War era were deists. Deists believe in God, but think God just made > everything and then let it do what it would. They don't believe in any kind > of divine intervention. - -I did not say that all founding fathers that this country was brought to life by were christians. Many people are not what they promote themselves as being. [gee, thats a new development.] some of the popes of old were not even christians. along with a number of archbishops, and bishops. Many - -Christopher ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V7 #206 ***********************************