From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V7 #165 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Saturday, June 8 2002 Volume 07 : Number 165 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: WAYYY NPR... I Need Suggestions!!! [Kevin Intoen ] Re: NPR: Pearl's death, 1st amendment & morbitity [Kevin Intoen ] RE: WAYYY NPR... I Need Suggestions!!! [Jennifer Cook ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [KrodKnid@aol.com] R.I.P. Dee Dee :( ["Bad Bender" ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [NoisyPollution@aol.com] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [LotteP0T0@aol.com] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [Kevin Intoen ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [Kevin Intoen ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( ["Bad Bender" ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( ["Bad Bender" ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [KrodKnid@aol.com] NPR- R.I.P. Dee Dee :(-NPR ["Bad Bender" ] NPR: Online Diarys [Andrea Horvath ] Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( [Kevin Intoen ] Re: NPR- R.I.P. Dee Dee :(-NPR [Kevin Intoen ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:06:26 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: WAYYY NPR... I Need Suggestions!!! Nothing says lovin' like a week of nonstop sex. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:23:41 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: NPR: Pearl's death, 1st amendment & morbitity On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:30:02AM -0400, angry-psychos-digest wrote: [snip] > Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:20:12 +0000 > From: tohaveaplan@att.net > Subject: NPR: Pearl's death, 1st amendment & morbitity > > Hi all! > > Was just wondering what people think about the Boston > Phoenix publishing pictures/linking to video of Daniel > Pearl's murder. I'm all for it...to expect a business to do something that will cost them potential revenue is beyond naive, and frankly I wanted to see the video myself. I missed it, but I downloaded it as soon as I was able to find a copy. I think your question is more relevant to Nightline (or whoever published it first, it escapes my mind right now) than the Boston Phoenix; with Nightline the decision to actually release it was up to them; the Boston Phoenix was only relaying information that had already become public. > > I felt that it might be in poor taste and then I read > the editorial at www.bostonphoenix.com and thought about > how Pearl's whole life was about the first amendment and > that perhaps it does him justice for people to see what > savages are really out there. Of course, to see the > murder you have to deal wit a lot of propaganda within > the film also. But I suppose in my normal life I like > to hear opposing views so I may make real decisions. > To be fair, the propaganda in the film isn't any worse than what's in the media today. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say it's more honest about its intentions than most Western media; it was a lot more direct about its intent. > I do believe that many people around the globe are > repressed by US policy however, as we do not completely No more than any other country's policies -- we just happen to swing the biggest stick. > control our government I also think that it is wrong to > avenge yourself on civilians. I also have to remind my I agree here, although for different reasons besides moral ones. I think that in their case it was strategically unwise to do so; getting a celebrity or two to champion their cause would have been a LOT more effective in gaining American support, since all our politicians are spineless, corrupt fucks who support anything that will get them votes or money. > self that thoughout history there have been so many > lunatics who have killed in the name of God, country, > family or personal beliefs. Of course that didn't make > Gigas Khan, Taqamada, Custer, Hitler, Charles Manson, > and the like right, just those who would kill for an > opinion. > I find it interesting that you say that, it's always amused and irritated me how people refer to this as an Islamic thing; it's just a bunch of stupid religious fucks (who are always bad news, no matter the creed) with a bunch of weapons and money. When the IRA was big in Ireland, nobody referred to it as a 'Catholic war' or a 'Protestant war'. > But in the end, perhaps it is just nature that is so > morbid and we humans (with all our technology and > education) are in fact no different from the animals at > all. When a lion moves in an old lion's territory first I've come to believe that we aren't, really, as much as we want to believe we are. I'd like to think that I'm fine with that belief, too. > he kills the old male, then he moves in on all the cubs > (and it is awful to see/hear them killed) if any of the > mother lions get in the way, they too are killed. All > so a new regime may begin. > Er..what does this have to do with Pearl being killed? I'm missing the analogy. > Anyway this is certainly a tangent and I may be > examining more issues than I really should be at once, > but all of this just sort f hit me after viewing that > video and I wondered what my fellow psychos might > believe. > To be honest, I think that people die every day, and to quote Stalin, a single death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic. As everybody knows, the ancient Romans, the peak of ancient civilization, used to have gladiator fights for entertainment. People loved to see others hurt themselves and others. Why should we be any different? Why shouldn't television be our Colusseum? If you really think about it, aren't boxing and wrestling (real wrestling, not staged WWF shit) and so on just castrated forms of the above? Hell, in the REAL Olympics, not this neutered-and-branded JOKE we have today, death occurred on a regular basis while the contestants were allowed to outdo each other. > Also, if you wish to skip the editorial but view the > video you may go to: http://prohosters.com/pearl/ > If anybody doesn't want to view RealMedia or ASF, check out http://www.ircii.org/~jak/Daniel_Pearl.mpg for an MPEG version of it. > Respectfully, > ABC [snip] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:29:47 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( Wow, that sucks, especially that his and Joey's deaths were so close together. I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made came from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic bomb, though :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:36:08 -0500 From: Jennifer Cook Subject: RE: WAYYY NPR... I Need Suggestions!!! Hell, that's all the time.... Not just for a birthday week! WOO HOO!!! GO ME!!! (Sorry, I'm usually pretty humble, but I had to brag about that one!) Jenn -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Intoen [mailto:jak@ircii.org] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:06 AM To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: Re: WAYYY NPR... I Need Suggestions!!! Nothing says lovin' like a week of nonstop sex. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:34:57 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( In a message dated 6/7/2002 4:30:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jak@ircii.org writes: > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made came > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > bomb, > though :) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Um...Einstein did not develop the bomb, nor was he instrumental in its development. His theory gave birth to it, but to blame him for the bomb is the same as blaming Newton for the development of ballistic weapons because he "discovered" gravity. If you want bomb developers think J. Robert Oppenheimer, Fermi, et al. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:59:35 -0500 From: "Bad Bender" Subject: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved millions of lives? > > In a message dated 6/7/2002 4:30:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jak@ircii.org > writes: > > > > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made came > > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > > bomb, > > though :) > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Um...Einstein did not develop the bomb, nor was he instrumental in its > development. His theory gave birth to it, but to blame him for the bomb is > the same as blaming Newton for the development of ballistic weapons because > he "discovered" gravity. If you want bomb developers think J. Robert > Oppenheimer, Fermi, et al. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:42:08 EDT From: NoisyPollution@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( In a message dated 6/7/02 3:30:08 AM Central Daylight Time, jak@ircii.org writes: > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made came > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > bomb, > It's true that he was involved in inventing it, but at least he objected to the actual USE of it :) Back to Dee Dee, it's strange that he was the same age as Joey when he died, and it's a shame because he wrote all of the songs. A lot of the songs talked about refusing to die, too. This sucks. Peace, }}Y{{eLissA Free spirits have always suffered violent opposition from mediocre minds- Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:10:45 EDT From: LotteP0T0@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( >>But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved millions of lives?<< And they say that just as many people would have ended up dying had the war continued. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ http://members.aol.com/LotteP0T0 http://athenaeriu.livejournal.com "With you there's no easy answer--it's true--you change the equation I add up to. And all of the things that I thought I knew--you turn it around...I'm amazed...When push comes to shove what I'd give to you--everything...I'm amazed..." - --POE, Amazed "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:37:58 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( Wrong. He expressly encouraged development of its stages in a letter to the President, not once but twice, as well as helping in its actual development. He was one of the men directly responsible for initiating the early research into the bomb. From http://www.doug-long.com/einstein.htm: "Einstein's greatest role in the invention of the atomic bomb was signing a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt urging that the bomb be built. The splitting of the uranium atom in Germany in December 1938 plus continued German aggression led some physicists to fear that Germany might be working on an atomic bomb. Among those concerned were physicists Leo Szilard and Eugene Wigner. [...] After consulting with Einstein, in August 1939 Szilard wrote a letter to President Roosevelt with Einstein's signature on it. The letter was delivered to Roosevelt in October 1939 by Alexander Sachs, a friend of the President. Germany had invaded Poland the previous month; the time was ripe for action. That October the Briggs Committee was appointed to study uranium chain reactions. [...] But the Briggs Committee moved very slowly, prompting Einstein, Szilard, and Sachs to write to FDR in March 1940, pointing again to German progress in uranium research (Weart & Szilard, pg. 119+). In April 1940 an Einstein letter, ghost-written by Szilard, pressed Briggs Committee chairman Lyman Briggs on the need for "greater speed" (Weart & Szilard, pg. 125+; Clark, pg. 680). [...] Einstein biographer Ronald Clark has observed that the atomic bomb would have been invented without Einstein's letters, but that without the early U.S. work that resulted from the letters, the a-bombs might not have been ready in time to use during the war on Japan (Clark, pg. 682-683). The atomic bomb related work that Einstein did was very limited and he completed it in two days during December 1941. Vannevar Bush, who was coordinating the scientific work on the a-bomb at that time, asked Einstein's advice on a theoretical problem involved in separating fissionable material by gaseous diffusion." On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 09:34:57AM -0400, KrodKnid@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/7/2002 4:30:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jak@ircii.org > writes: > > > > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made came > > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > > bomb, > > though :) > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Um...Einstein did not develop the bomb, nor was he instrumental in its > development. His theory gave birth to it, but to blame him for the bomb is > the same as blaming Newton for the development of ballistic weapons because > he "discovered" gravity. If you want bomb developers think J. Robert > Oppenheimer, Fermi, et al. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:41:17 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( Tell that to the Japanese. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 08:59:35AM -0500, Bad Bender wrote: > But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > millions of lives? > > > > > > In a message dated 6/7/2002 4:30:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jak@ircii.org > > writes: > > > > > > > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made > came > > > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > > > bomb, > > > though :) > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Um...Einstein did not develop the bomb, nor was he instrumental in its > > development. His theory gave birth to it, but to blame him for the bomb is > > the same as blaming Newton for the development of ballistic weapons > because > > he "discovered" gravity. If you want bomb developers think J. Robert > > Oppenheimer, Fermi, et al. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:06:05 -0500 From: "Bad Bender" Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( We were preparing to invade the Japanese homeland, we warned them to stand down, surrender. They refused. We dropped one bomb and they still refused, we dropped the second bomb and they finally accepted our terms. Had we not dropped the bomb well over a million more people would have died in the invasion. Those two bombs ended the war and saved American lives. It was a horrible thing to have to do but it was necessary. > > Tell that to the Japanese. > > > But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > > millions of lives? > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel sort of obligated to point out that that Einstein quote you made > > came > > > > from the same man who was instrumental in the development of the atomic > > > > bomb, > > > > though :) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Um...Einstein did not develop the bomb, nor was he instrumental in its > > > development. His theory gave birth to it, but to blame him for the bomb is > > > the same as blaming Newton for the development of ballistic weapons > > because > > > he "discovered" gravity. If you want bomb developers think J. Robert > > > Oppenheimer, Fermi, et al. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:07:26 -0500 From: "Bad Bender" Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( More of our troops would have been killed. It was a decisive use of power. > > >>But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > millions of lives?<< > > And they say that just as many people would have ended up dying had the war > continued. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:22:05 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( In a message dated 6/7/2002 9:59:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thegeneral@knology.net writes: > But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > millions of lives? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WWII was about to end anyway. It may have saved a few lives, but we really dropped it because we wanted to see what it would do. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:43:28 -0500 From: "Bad Bender" Subject: NPR- R.I.P. Dee Dee :(-NPR WW2 was wearing down but the Japanese refused to quit on their Emperor. I think it was called Bushido, the way of the warrior. No surrender was the flavor of the day. It saved more then a few lives. We knew what it could do because of testing in the American deserts. I met one of the Enola Gay crew members a few years ago at a USAF Combat Dining-In, he told us the reason they dropped the bomb and how, had they not ,more American lives would have been lost in the invasion of the Japanese homeland. Since we dropped it there have those few Americans that have sought to somehow blame us for using excessive force and make us to be the bad guys. Either way, shortly after we dropped fat boy the Japs surrendered and our people came home. > > > > But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > > millions of lives? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > WWII was about to end anyway. It may have saved a few lives, but we really > dropped it because we wanted to see what it would do. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrea Horvath Subject: NPR: Online Diarys What is the best site to get involved in the online journal phenomenon? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:16:48 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: R.I.P. Dee Dee :( On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 05:29:31PM -0400, KrodKnid@aol.com wrote: [snip] > > So, I am wrong...how? Einstein himself was not "instrumental" in the > development of the bomb, and his urging that it be built was due to fears > that Germany would get one and be the only nation with it. > Sure he was. Without his signature, those letters would have never been taken as seriously as they were -- perhaps they would even have been ignored. I'd say that was pretty "instrumental". And as far as his reasons, they don't matter. The point is, he was in a position to use his scientific authority to get the bomb researched and built, even if his only practical work lasted only two days. I'd say that makes him at LEAST as responsible for it as anybody else involved. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:26:14 -0400 From: Kevin Intoen Subject: Re: NPR- R.I.P. Dee Dee :(-NPR I love how patriotism can blind someone...do you think perhaps that this is the same reasoning used by the WTC bombers? After all, they could just as easily (and just as rationally, I might add) claim that by their actions they were saving "millions of lives" from being destroyed by their enemies -- Israel and its backer, the US. Now, before anybody gets all righteous and indignant, let me point out that I'm simply making a case against Bad Bender's reasoning here and not necessarily advocating the "right" or "wrong" of it. If it had been Japan (or Germany, more likely scenario) who had developed the bomb and hit the US first, we would TO THIS DAY be crying that it was foul play to involve civilians. I don't care what secondhand military propaganda you heard, the simple fact is that they killed noncombatants. Sure, they may have hit us first at Pearl Harbor, but at least the target was military and not civilian in nature. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 07:43:28PM -0500, Bad Bender wrote: > WW2 was wearing down but the Japanese refused to quit on their Emperor. I > think it was called Bushido, the way of the warrior. No surrender was the > flavor of the day. It saved more then a few lives. We knew what it could do > because of testing in the American deserts. I met one of the Enola Gay crew > members a few years ago at a USAF Combat Dining-In, he told us the reason > they dropped the bomb and how, had they not ,more American lives would have > been lost in the invasion of the Japanese homeland. Since we dropped it > there have those few Americans that have sought to somehow blame us for > using excessive force and make us to be the bad guys. Either way, shortly > after we dropped fat boy the Japs surrendered and our people came home. > > > > > > > > > > But how much blame can be given to the weapon that ended WW2 and saved > > > millions of lives? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > WWII was about to end anyway. It may have saved a few lives, but we really > > dropped it because we wanted to see what it would do. ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V7 #165 ***********************************